REVIEW – 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC
Guestblogged by Joo Kay Singh
I’ve just spent the past hour watching 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC1 in the UK, and came away mildly disappointed, but not altogether surprised.
The documentary was framed as a “personal journey” for the presenter, Sonia Deol, to “unravel the events of 1984, an iconic year for Sikhs”, and informs us that “the bloody aftermath that followed [of Indira Gandhi’s assassination] so shocks Sonia that she is forced to reappraise the depth of her commitment to her faith”
For the first part of the program, we were served up with interviews mainly with Mark Tully and K.S. Brar who sounded like they were both regurgitating paragraphs from their respective books on the subject on the background to the Invasion. Sant Jarnail Singh was given the usual ‘congress stooge turned bad’ treatment by both, and the Darbar Sahib invasion covered without a hint of investigative journalism. Sonia failed to enquire why 37 other gurdwaras were attacked on the same day, if as per Tully and Brar’s insistence, Indira Gandhi was merely interested in Sant Bhindrawale. She similarly fails to question either of the men on the timing of the attack, on why the entire state of Panjab was placed under curfew, the expulsion of all foreign media, or the killings of pilgrims by the Army.
The second part moves onto the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s assassination, and the tone was set when she describes the events as “riots”, which even the most partisan commentators would agree they were not. There are a few interviews with Widows, a passing mention of alleged police complicity in an interview with some witnesses – but virtually nothing on political involvement and certainly no interviews with police or Congress officials on their role. The one person of note she did interview, Harvinder Singh Phoolka – a lawyer who fought for justice for the past 25 years, was only done in the context of him leading an organisation who planted saplings in memory of the victims. I’m sure he would have liked to move beyond that, and share his detailed knowledge of how the pogroms were orchestrated and who was to blame.
One of the most disappointing aspects of this program, for me, were that the events of 1984 and the interviews with the widows were playing bridesmaid to a pretty soppy central narrative – that of Sonia Deol attempting to “reappraise the depth of her commitment to her faith”. We are shown a few emotional scenes after she interviews witnesses and survivors of the invasion and the pogroms, but then she ends the program doing some bhangra with some families in Delhi celebrating diwali, proclaiming all is now well in India.
The second area of disappointment was how little Sonia really probed into the events of 1984, highlighted by the choice of interviewees and a script that could almost have been written by the GOI’s Press Office.
At the outset, I did say that although I was disappointed overall, I wasn’t very surprised. The first reason is that Sonia Deol isn’t exactly a Rageh Omar or Jeremy Paxman; she’s a Radio Presenter on the BBC Asian Network with self-admittedly little knowledge of 1984, so I would have been more surprised to see her asking tough and probing questions, or even knowing who to ask the right questions. That leads me to the second point; the location producer for this program was Mandeep Singh Bajwa, who if you follow his comments online and on the Sikh eGroups, comes across as a poster-boy for the GOI. So it’s no surprise that he’s the man that the GOI have instructed the BBC to use for all their interviews – if they want permission to be in India at all. Couple the above with some inside information that Sonia Deol was the third-choice presenter, suggests to me that the powers that-be at the BBC weren’t altogether interested in producing anything serious either.
Here’s to hoping the next 25 years will bring something more insightful documentaries covering 1984!
309 Responses to “REVIEW – 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC”
BBCviewer… Bin Laden??? your comparing him to Sant JB?? i think you need to have a look at what Bin Laden has done in the name of his faith as opposed what Sant ji tried to do for our faith which was to awaken us to the truth regarding the Indian state and its intentions to us as race.
Avi, it does not take a rocket scientist to compare the similarity between these two individuals and what they stand for. Why do you call JB a Saint ? when he arms himself to the eyeballs with amunition guns and rocket launchers in the Sikhs holliest shrine ?? Those Sikhs who refer to him as a Saint is like saying a moslem suicide bomber will go to heaven. The Indian Army offered JB and all those in the Golden Temple a means to give up arms and leave the Temple peacefully. It was JB and his militants that forced the Army to take action and release the Temple back to peaceful loving Sikhs.
geezer do work for the indian govt? When did they say come out peacefuly, were u there recording it? Guru Gobind Singh said arm yourself, so dont come with that one, The Govt could have waited for him to come out eventually. But why should he come out anyway? Its his right to go wherever he wants. No matter what circumstance, you do not attack darbar sahib. Would any govt attack Mecca, or the Vatican? i dont think so. So y attack Sikh holy shrines? Because they thought they can get away with it, as Sikhs are a minority. Hope they paid you well u fool.
How are you related to Bin Ladin? Were you in the Golden Temple at the time of the attack? This was a attack on defendless Sikhs by coward Hindus. The Sikhs fight on the battle ground with a sword not like some.
Sikhs have little in common with Islam except , beard , turban and One God ( which is also different for the SIKH GOD loves all his children irrespective of his race or relgion ).
I think a more appropriate comparison of Santji would be with :–
1) Battle of Thermopylae :– http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopyla…
0r
2 ) 40 muktas of SIkh history
Just one thing: please stop referring to him as a sant. There is nothing saintly about building an arsenal in darbar sahib. There is nothing saintly about accepting offerings from pilgrims when the guru granth sahib is lying next door – who did he think he was? I'll tell you. He began to think of himself as the righteous saviour – the hallmarks of a radical and potential terrorist.
The gurus said 'scare no one, and fear no one' – bhindrawale was scaring sikhs, and fearing the government. Please don't call him a saint.
Our Hindu brothers can you give Amritsar 'Holy City Status' like Mecca, Vatican, and Haridwar, Jaganath – no they say becuase you a part of Hindu Nation therefore this temple becomes a part and it is no more than just a temple, even though this temple spans many generations of Gurus, it gives cancer patients life and where Baba Deep Singh and 1000s of sikhs lay down there lives – yes it is special very for us sikhs – how would the hindu govt. know this. It in this spiritual context that you can understand bhindranwales martyrdom not terrorism – not cold rational explanations
it gives cancer patients life…what does this mean and where is the evidence?
@anon – i guess u havent heard of organisation like pingalwada and others which wrk for poor and those who cant afford their medications
India is as fragmented as Europe said Europeans when they were in India. It is a country or SUB CONTINENT made up of nations. Look at Latin America, Africa, Europe, the break up of USSR, US when it had a more federalist structure, but in india which is the most diverse country of all, talking of seperate nations is a sin in the Hindu holy land. Even talking of federalism is a sin – we didnt derive this concept, it came from west. We ruled under Maharaja Ranjit Singh when the rest of the country was under the jackboot of British Imperialism, we were seen by the British as a nation and the state was taken from us as a trust to be handed back to us later – did we get it in 1947 – no.
Our Hindu brothers can you give Amritsar 'Holy City Status' like Mecca, Vatican, and Haridwar, Jaganath – no they say becuase you a part of Hindu Nation therefore this temple becomes a part and it is no more than just a temple, even though this temple spans many generations of Gurus, it gives cancer patients life and where Baba Deep Singh and 1000s of sikhs lay down there lives – yes it is special very for us sikhs – how would the hindu govt. know this. It in this spiritual context that you can understand bhindranwales martyrdom not terrorism – not cold rational explanations
it gives cancer patients life…what does this mean and where is the evidence?
@anon – i guess u havent heard of organisation like pingalwada and others which wrk for poor and those who cant afford their medications
India is as fragmented as Europe said Europeans when they were in India. It is a country or SUB CONTINENT made up of nations. Look at Latin America, Africa, Europe, the break up of USSR, US when it had a more federalist structure, but in india which is the most diverse country of all, talking of seperate nations is a sin in the Hindu holy land. Even talking of federalism is a sin – we didnt derive this concept, it came from west. We ruled under Maharaja Ranjit Singh when the rest of the country was under the jackboot of British Imperialism, we were seen by the British as a nation and the state was taken from us as a trust to be handed back to us later – did we get it in 1947 – no.
I agree some of the program was a bit 'cringy' and didnt cover some of the deep aspects of 1984 but to get any coverage on this kind of event on the BBC is difficult and to get permissions from India Government …well I think that speaks for itself! and since 1984 no has tried to give it any coverage on a national level and this is a good platform! i just think its a good start of spreading the difficult path us sikhs have had…we need the youngsters of today to take the next step…learn about our Khalsa panth!
I agree some of the program was a bit 'cringy' and didnt cover some of the deep aspects of 1984 but to get any coverage on this kind of event on the BBC is difficult and to get permissions from India Government …well I think that speaks for itself! and since 1984 no has tried to give it any coverage on a national level and this is a good platform! i just think its a good start of spreading the difficult path us sikhs have had…we need the youngsters of today to take the next step…learn about our Khalsa panth!
Great Review J K Singh, You have hit upon many great points
Very Informative
Thanks
Great Review J K Singh, You have hit upon many great points
Very Informative
Thanks
Eye witnesses at the temple will tell you that truck loads of weapons were brought in on 7 June after operation blue star – by the govt. The govt reported less then 500 killed in the White Paper, we now know there were 3000 bodies piled onto trucks. Human Rights groups report more. And Yes What about OPERATION WOODROSE shortly after blue star- can the indian govt explain that. All Amritdhari Sikhs were branded terrorists, many, arrested , tortured and killed by security forces in different parts of Punjab. Why was there hardly any mention of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution which called for a looser federation of states like the US – river waters 75% of which are being diverted to neighbouring states against international law and indian constitution. These all could have been mentioned briefly in 2 mins – i mean how long does it take you to read this paragraph
Eye witnesses at the temple will tell you that truck loads of weapons were brought in on 7 June after operation blue star – by the govt. The govt reported less then 500 killed in the White Paper, we now know there were 3000 bodies piled onto trucks. Human Rights groups report more. And Yes What about OPERATION WOODROSE shortly after blue star- can the indian govt explain that. All Amritdhari Sikhs were branded terrorists, many, arrested , tortured and killed by security forces in different parts of Punjab. Why was there hardly any mention of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution which called for a looser federation of states like the US – river waters 75% of which are being diverted to neighbouring states against international law and indian constitution. These all could have been mentioned briefly in 2 mins – i mean how long does it take you to read this paragraph
india a so called secular state that patronizes and assists hindu nationalis groups to counter the nationalism presented by minorities. that allows hinddu society to be unsecular/hindu becuase they are the majority and a democratic country will always satisfy the majority. minorities have no place. only option create your own state.
india a so called secular state that patronizes and assists hindu nationalis groups to counter the nationalism presented by minorities. that allows hinddu society to be unsecular/hindu becuase they are the majority and a democratic country will always satisfy the majority. minorities have no place. only option create your own state.
Sonia Deol is hot!
You are a disgarce, on a subject that relates to a attack on Golden Temple and on our brothers and sisters in India, how can you even think in this dirty way. Sonia Deol in this subject becomes your sister, shame on you.
How can you even think in this dirty way on this holy subject. You are a sinner and disgrace.
Sonia Deol is hot!
You are a disgarce, on a subject that relates to a attack on Golden Temple and on our brothers and sisters in India, how can you even think in this dirty way. Sonia Deol in this subject becomes your sister, shame on you.
How can you even think in this dirty way on this holy subject. You are a sinner and disgrace.
I just watched the programme again and i think it was good. For the thousands of young Sikhs who mere babies or a twinkle in the skies when this happened, for them it was a good history lesson.
As for Sonia, i luv and respect her, her comments at the end might not have been helpful for the many who still feel outrage and anger at the atrocities. But as she put it the journey was an emotional one for her not a life changing one. She told u she was a spade at the beginning of the programme and she was still a spade at the end of it, albeit a proud one!
For me she did not explore enough what it meant to be a Sikh now in India or here or what the true political wind was now although she mentioned we now had a Sikh head of the congress party! wow! and whether they had made any real advancement into accepting responsibility.
In fairness, she told the story of the thousands of Sikhs who died at the hands of the' mobs', note she called the Hindu's mobs. The Sikh women and men told of how men were dragged out of their houses and set alight with tyres around their necks. She told the story of the Widows Colony and Ms Mohinder Kaur and of families loosing 3-4 generations of males. How moving and utterly humbling.
Most telling was her interview with KS Briar, he admitted on British National TV that the govt were desperate to get into the Amritsar and take out St Bhindrawale, they were scared of his growing stature and power and from what i understand that was his only crime. Mr KS Briar or Mark Tully for that matter were not able to give or provide evidence of any other atrocities or extremist acts! (this alone gives the many lawyers fighting for and on behalf of the families who lost loved ones more bargaining power and i hope they are able to use it).
And once in Amritsar KS Briar was scared of being surrounded and ambushed himself and therefore he had an urgency to get in and put into action his operation at whatever cost to innocent lives.. And at the end he admitted to feeling remorseful for the hundreds of innocent lives lost.
I felt it was truly a well rounded story.. read between the lines people..
As for Indra Ghandi, her motive was simple she wanted to quill any romantic notions the Sikhs had for an independent Punjab state and the almost premeditated pogroms could have turned into genocide and for this fact alone i like to say i am quite proud of Ms S Deol, whichever name she chooses to use for bringing this story back into the forefront and reminding the thousands of Sikhs across Briton the events of 1984 and a chance to debate and to the thousands of young Sikhs a history lesson. As for me i still luv Ms S Deol and that wont change. And henceforth…A PERSONAL WELL DONE TO MS DEOL FROM ME.
I just watched the programme again and i think it was good. For the thousands of young Sikhs who mere babies or a twinkle in the skies when this happened, for them it was a good history lesson.
As for Sonia, i luv and respect her, her comments at the end might not have been helpful for the many who still feel outrage and anger at the atrocities. But as she put it the journey was an emotional one for her not a life changing one. She told u she was a spade at the beginning of the programme and she was still a spade at the end of it, albeit a proud one!
For me she did not explore enough what it meant to be a Sikh now in India or here or what the true political wind was now although she mentioned we now had a Sikh head of the congress party! wow! and whether they had made any real advancement into accepting responsibility.
In fairness, she told the story of the thousands of Sikhs who died at the hands of the' mobs', note she called the Hindu's mobs. The Sikh women and men told of how men were dragged out of their houses and set alight with tyres around their necks. She told the story of the Widows Colony and Ms Mohinder Kaur and of families loosing 3-4 generations of males. How moving and utterly humbling.
Most telling was her interview with KS Briar, he admitted on British National TV that the govt were desperate to get into the Amritsar and take out St Bhindrawale, they were scared of his growing stature and power and from what i understand that was his only crime. Mr KS Briar or Mark Tully for that matter were not able to give or provide evidence of any other atrocities or extremist acts! (this alone gives the many lawyers fighting for and on behalf of the families who lost loved ones more bargaining power and i hope they are able to use it).
And once in Amritsar KS Briar was scared of being surrounded and ambushed himself and therefore he had an urgency to get in and put into action his operation at whatever cost to innocent lives.. And at the end he admitted to feeling remorseful for the hundreds of innocent lives lost.
I felt it was truly a well rounded story.. read between the lines people..
As for Indra Ghandi, her motive was simple she wanted to quill any romantic notions the Sikhs had for an independent Punjab state and the almost premeditated pogroms could have turned into genocide and for this fact alone i like to say i am quite proud of Ms S Deol, whichever name she chooses to use for bringing this story back into the forefront and reminding the thousands of Sikhs across Briton the events of 1984 and a chance to debate and to the thousands of young Sikhs a history lesson. As for me i still luv Ms S Deol and that wont change. And henceforth…A PERSONAL WELL DONE TO MS DEOL FROM ME.
I think she did quite well. After all it was a BBC program, so you can't expect them to just become pro Khalistan. I'm not a fan of Sonia Deol but I think her approach was quite balanced
Well Done
I think she did quite well. After all it was a BBC program, so you can't expect them to just become pro Khalistan. I'm not a fan of Sonia Deol but I think her approach was quite balanced
Well Done
Whilst i was excited to view the broadcast, i was disappointed as to why the BBC,entrusted such a junior presenter to such high profile and a topic of such magnitude to a person who confessed to have little understanding, of the core issues of the assallt on the Golden temple.
The problems of mismanagement, nepotisim, water resources sharing, demographic change, power shortage, unemployment, emmigration, education, punjab's capitol, atonomy and the list is long the core issues for the rise of discontent were not addressed. The BBC has consequently fallen in my estimation. I hope next time we may see a more professional attempt.
Whilst i was excited to view the broadcast, i was disappointed as to why the BBC,entrusted such a junior presenter to such high profile and a topic of such magnitude to a person who confessed to have little understanding, of the core issues of the assallt on the Golden temple.
The problems of mismanagement, nepotisim, water resources sharing, demographic change, power shortage, unemployment, emmigration, education, punjab’s capitol, atonomy and the list is long the core issues for the rise of discontent were not addressed. The BBC has consequently fallen in my estimation. I hope next time we may see a more professional attempt.
before blue star operation , there were many people with their second name as kumar ,dass, lal . in other words non singhs were picked and murdered in cold blood by hit squads sent out of darbar sahib . has everybody forgotten that . there are families still living without their father , women living without their husbands still cursing those who were behind these evil acts . if people do not say anything it does not mean they have forgotten . pain is the same in every human being. thank god it was brought under control by whatever means otherwise there would have been many more poor innocents widows and orphans. no religion teaches violence against the weak , helpless ,especially teachings of ten gurus .it is shame on people who have hijacked gurus teachings and advocate violence in their name . we should listen and try to understand what gurus have taught us sacrificed for .
My family was in Delhi in 1984 and there is no eviedence of killing of Hindus, but the whole world saw Hindus killing Sikhs. You talk about the Sikh Gurus, what you know about them, they gave their lives for Hindus and this is how Hindus payed back. I understand not all Hindus were involved, but the large mojority og Hinhus were and this is enough to establish that Hindus do not respect the Gurus. Remeber Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa and they fought on battlefield and achieved victory despite they were out numbered, the Khalsa did not attack defendeless families at their homes and were did the Hindus learn this from.
my family is also in delhi , and very close family members in punjab , who suffered loss of life for no reason . they became a number in many of the murders committed to show results to the people who donated money to drive non singhs out of punjab. and do not forget gurus belonged to hindu parentage. you may aleinate yourself from hindus , but you cant change the fact that the gurus are hindus and they defended hindu way of life with their blood., and i am proud of them , it is very easy to blame the whole community for evil doings instead of individuals. my family in delhi with many others stayed up day and night watching sikh neighbours property and life . and i can say today that nobody suffered any loss in their area. and i am not saying that they done any favour to anyone , it was natural. like it is natural now for me to feel sad and hurt for those who were killed for any reason or no reason .can you imagine india without turban and beard . this is our identity in the world . look at Sardar Manmohan singh ji ,he has broght so much respect and dignity on India like never before.
before blue star operation , there were many people with their second name as kumar ,dass, lal . in other words non singhs were picked and murdered in cold blood by hit squads sent out of darbar sahib . has everybody forgotten that . there are families still living without their father , women living without their husbands still cursing those who were behind these evil acts . if people do not say anything it does not mean they have forgotten . pain is the same in every human being. thank god it was brought under control by whatever means otherwise there would have been many more poor innocents widows and orphans. no religion teaches violence against the weak , helpless ,especially teachings of ten gurus .it is shame on people who have hijacked gurus teachings and advocate violence in their name . we should listen and try to understand what gurus have taught us sacrificed for .
My family was in Delhi in 1984 and there is no eviedence of killing of Hindus, but the whole world saw Hindus killing Sikhs. You talk about the Sikh Gurus, what you know about them, they gave their lives for Hindus and this is how Hindus payed back. I understand not all Hindus were involved, but the large mojority og Hinhus were and this is enough to establish that Hindus do not respect the Gurus. Remeber Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa and they fought on battlefield and achieved victory despite they were out numbered, the Khalsa did not attack defendeless families at their homes and were did the Hindus learn this from.
my family is also in delhi , and very close family members in punjab , who suffered loss of life for no reason . they became a number in many of the murders committed to show results to the people who donated money to drive non singhs out of punjab. and do not forget gurus belonged to hindu parentage. you may aleinate yourself from hindus , but you cant change the fact that the gurus are hindus and they defended hindu way of life with their blood., and i am proud of them , it is very easy to blame the whole community for evil doings instead of individuals. my family in delhi with many others stayed up day and night watching sikh neighbours property and life . and i can say today that nobody suffered any loss in their area. and i am not saying that they done any favour to anyone , it was natural. like it is natural now for me to feel sad and hurt for those who were killed for any reason or no reason .can you imagine india without turban and beard . this is our identity in the world . look at Sardar Manmohan singh ji ,he has broght so much respect and dignity on India like never before.
the people who have suffered , and are still suffering in silence , they are not going to listen to your explanations . i suggest that it would have been better if we read and understand the teachings of gurus. GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ took up arms as a warning to the attacker . HE wore KIRPAN not talwar.HE showererd KIRPA even on HIS would be attackers. PLEASE remember GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ represented AKAL PURUKH HIMSELF.HE has no enemies. we may sin against HIM .HE only has KIRPA for us. PLEASE do not look at HIS appearance <READ HIS teachings.HIS teachings are to lift us out of this world of misrey and to take us to HIS home our true home.
the people who have suffered , and are still suffering in silence , they are not going to listen to your explanations . i suggest that it would have been better if we read and understand the teachings of gurus. GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ took up arms as a warning to the attacker . HE wore KIRPAN not talwar.HE showererd KIRPA even on HIS would be attackers. PLEASE remember GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ represented AKAL PURUKH HIMSELF.HE has no enemies. we may sin against HIM .HE only has KIRPA for us. PLEASE do not look at HIS appearance <READ HIS teachings.HIS teachings are to lift us out of this world of misrey and to take us to HIS home our true home.
It was good documentary.I would have liked the documentary to have covered the brutal killings of Punjabi hindus by Bhindrawala's army before blue star , the vents that lead to blue star and the post 1984 era of terrorism in Punjab where extorsions, murders, rapes and burnings of hindus were done on name of Khalistan by Sikh youths fuelled by Pakistani intelligence. What about hindus who fled Punjab their homeland due to fear of these Sikh terrorists.It seems some aspects of the story will never be revealed.
You cannot be a Singh or a Sikh and you know that. If you was then you would not justify the attack on the Golden Temple and on our Sikh brothers and sisiters. If the Sikhs carried out attacks on the punjabi Hindus then there were other way of dealing with the situation. Remember further, the Khalsa calls the enemy and fights him on the battleground and does not attack defendless families.
Nothing justifies any killings, nothing justifies attack on holy place like Golden Temple, any humans: Sikhs or Hindus. You are NOT right in saying that people in the name of Sikh religion have not killed defendless families. It is so not true. Thats the part of story never ever covered, for most world Hindus do not exist in Punjab. The crimes done on hindus have never been highlighted in any reports and documentaries. If you are not aware of the dreadful era of terrorism for Khalistan where i have grown up , you need to find out more.
By saying Sikhs attacked Hindus before blue star you infact are justifying the attack on Golden Temple and on the defendless Sikhs. You are not a Sikh and i suggest you come clean. Sikh's never kill defendless people, I am aware that some people from Pakistan diguised them self as Sikhs and did attack the Hindus to give Sikhs a bad name and to course trouble between the two faiths. Go India and investiagte.
You think the babbar khalsa international, the khalistan force were pakistani groups who tortured hindus, sent them threat letters, kidnapped their children, burnt them alive, raped women???? Who made you think that. There was Pakistani intelligence's doubtless support. There were even fixed salaries for these posts of terrorists for mislead Sikh youths. I am Punjabi, all my life iv lived in Punjab, i dont need to know story of my home from anyone else. Youth abroad live with half information that they have, cultivating hatred.
All i have to say is " let Punjabis live in peace, both Hindus, Sikhs have paid ENOUGH price already, let us live happily with each other. We dont need any, any , any more hatred. I am against any documentaries that want to pull at the scars, that will disturb the present prosperity of Punjab.
Dont worry about my religion, it does not matter.
It was good documentary.I would have liked the documentary to have covered the brutal killings of Punjabi hindus by Bhindrawala's army before blue star , the vents that lead to blue star and the post 1984 era of terrorism in Punjab where extorsions, murders, rapes and burnings of hindus were done on name of Khalistan by Sikh youths fuelled by Pakistani intelligence. What about hindus who fled Punjab their homeland due to fear of these Sikh terrorists.It seems some aspects of the story will never be revealed.
You cannot be a Singh or a Sikh and you know that. If you was then you would not justify the attack on the Golden Temple and on our Sikh brothers and sisiters. If the Sikhs carried out attacks on the punjabi Hindus then there were other way of dealing with the situation. Remember further, the Khalsa calls the enemy and fights him on the battleground and does not attack defendless families.
Nothing justifies any killings, nothing justifies attack on holy place like Golden Temple, any humans: Sikhs or Hindus. You are NOT right in saying that people in the name of Sikh religion have not killed defendless families. It is so not true. Thats the part of story never ever covered, for most world Hindus do not exist in Punjab. The crimes done on hindus have never been highlighted in any reports and documentaries. If you are not aware of the dreadful era of terrorism for Khalistan where i have grown up , you need to find out more.
By saying Sikhs attacked Hindus before blue star you infact are justifying the attack on Golden Temple and on the defendless Sikhs. You are not a Sikh and i suggest you come clean. Sikh's never kill defendless people, I am aware that some people from Pakistan diguised them self as Sikhs and did attack the Hindus to give Sikhs a bad name and to course trouble between the two faiths. Go India and investiagte.
You think the babbar khalsa international, the khalistan force were pakistani groups who tortured hindus, sent them threat letters, kidnapped their children, burnt them alive, raped women???? Who made you think that. There was Pakistani intelligence's doubtless support. There were even fixed salaries for these posts of terrorists for mislead Sikh youths. I am Punjabi, all my life iv lived in Punjab, i dont need to know story of my home from anyone else. Youth abroad live with half information that they have, cultivating hatred.
All i have to say is " let Punjabis live in peace, both Hindus, Sikhs have paid ENOUGH price already, let us live happily with each other. We dont need any, any , any more hatred. I am against any documentaries that want to pull at the scars, that will disturb the present prosperity of Punjab.
Dont worry about my religion, it does not matter.
When attacking the Golden Temple and the defendless Sikhs did the Hindus forgett Guru Tej Bhadar Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Char Sahibzade, Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bandha Singh Bhadar, and the others who gave their lives for Hindustan. Yes not all Hindus participated and condem the attack, but the large majority of Hindus that attacked inoccent Sikhs have created a uncomfortable relationship between the two faiths which will never ever heal. This is a warning to Sikhs because if over ONE person Hindus can behave in a barbaric way then they could repeat this. The Sikhs need their own state and independance, they cannot continue to fight and protect those who are risk to them.
very clever, dividing up countries really works. have you never looked in a history book?.
Country got divided in 1984 stupid. Can you guarantee that in the future a similar situation will not take place, specially when the RSS are preparing for a battle. If you are a Sikh then you are a traitor and if you are a Hindu then you are a coward. Get your finger out and check out whats happening in the world you fool.
RSS is preparing for a battle? You are living in some dream world? I hate the Brit youth sitting here, good for nothing hate mongers, spreading hatred and disturbing the peace, THE BASIC AND FOREMOST LESSON OF SIKHI .
cant people talk of progressive views trying to bring India first, working for unity and development of their homeland, bringing pride to India instead of vomitting venom on websites.
You hate Brit Youths, what about the Hindus that brutaly killed inoccents Sikhs, why you fancy them do you? I am simply alerting the Sikhs that in future this could happen again and at the same time telling the coward Hindus that if they want a Battle then fight like a man on the battle ground with a sword, don't use petrol cans and tyres. Further to the RSS they exsist and once they are ready they should challenge the Sikhs like a man. Sawa Lakh Se Eik Laraon Thab Guru Gobind Singh Naan Kahaon.
When attacking the Golden Temple and the defendless Sikhs did the Hindus forgett Guru Tej Bhadar Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Char Sahibzade, Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bandha Singh Bhadar, and the others who gave their lives for Hindustan. Yes not all Hindus participated and condem the attack, but the large majority of Hindus that attacked inoccent Sikhs have created a uncomfortable relationship between the two faiths which will never ever heal. This is a warning to Sikhs because if over ONE person Hindus can behave in a barbaric way then they could repeat this. The Sikhs need their own state and independance, they cannot continue to fight and protect those who are risk to them.
very clever, dividing up countries really works. have you never looked in a history book?.
Country got divided in 1984 stupid. Can you guarantee that in the future a similar situation will not take place, specially when the RSS are preparing for a battle. If you are a Sikh then you are a traitor and if you are a Hindu then you are a coward. Get your finger out and check out whats happening in the world you fool.
RSS is preparing for a battle? You are living in some dream world? I hate the Brit youth sitting here, good for nothing hate mongers, spreading hatred and disturbing the peace, THE BASIC AND FOREMOST LESSON OF SIKHI .
cant people talk of progressive views trying to bring India first, working for unity and development of their homeland, bringing pride to India instead of vomitting venom on websites.
You hate Brit Youths, what about the Hindus that brutaly killed inoccents Sikhs, why you fancy them do you? I am simply alerting the Sikhs that in future this could happen again and at the same time telling the coward Hindus that if they want a Battle then fight like a man on the battle ground with a sword, don't use petrol cans and tyres. Further to the RSS they exsist and once they are ready they should challenge the Sikhs like a man. Sawa Lakh Se Eik Laraon Thab Guru Gobind Singh Naan Kahaon.
Sonia Deol was not the right presenter for this proggrame, the girl can't even speak good punjabi.
Sonia Deol was not the right presenter for this proggrame, the girl can't even speak good punjabi.
BBC Viewer. I will deal with your points in turn.
1.Firstly you are classing Sant JB as terrorist. That is matter of perspective and in yours you have deemed him to be one therefore you are capable of comparing him to other known terrorist like Bin Laden. So it really does depend on which side of the fence you are sitting on, it’s clear which side you are on but for me he was a freedom fighter and religious leader. Having said that are you able to find any evidence to support the fact that Sant JB promoted or encouraged violence? I don’t think you will be able to, whereas Bin Laden actively promotes violence against any non Muslim. Can you show me any evidence that Sant JB talked in derogative terms about any other religion? Your comparison is utter nonsense and in fact offensive.
2.Symbolic you say, the weapons are in Gudwara to show all that we are prepared to defend our faith if it’s under attack. Its doesn’t mean we will not revert to the whatever is necessary be that a gun or otherwise.
3.I agree civilians were killed in the cross fire but who started the attack??? And why was it started on the Gurpurb? When the complex was packed? The army had the place on lock down so why did they allow civilians in? You seem to missing the real issues my friend or you don’t want to see them.
4.Coward who died in battle!!! he was in custody before being released why didn’t they keep him inside?? Again missing the point. Also Gudwara and forts have always been used in time of defence read your history.
5.Clearly you seem to be very pro Indian government. Delicate? They didn’t have to enter or attack they were ordered to….also if as you say everyone was given the chance to leave why didn’t the civilians? They clearly said on the documentary that they were not told or given the option of leaving.. You really think they were lying?
6.why is it not possible? Have you heard of Israel? Kosov and any number of other countries populated by minorities.
7.I cant see why it wouldn’t as with most people you fail to see the beauty of independent state. Yes it would be for Sikhs but not to preclude others. You may wish to read about Mahraja Ranjit Singh and his Kingdom. Also you’re unelected PM has little or no power, are we supposed to be grateful for his appointment?
I have never said that I am an Indian, but I am a proud to be a Sikh. Maybe you should think about if you actually want to be a Sikh.
JB was a terrorist. going around the pinds and forcibly making people turn to sikhism and where turbans is not the way. you go to punjab and speak to some older people you know and they will tell you the truth. people are actually scared to cuss him in front of camera…what does that tell you?. He may of held strong values but you cannot force them on people. As for holding up in the golden temple, that was the biggest sin. He knew it would be ripped apart. forts and temples may have been used 500 years ago but we are not living in the past. to load weopons into the holiest Sikh shrine and laugh as it is blown up is sickening.
Avi, taking your points also:-
1. I think you will find that all non-exteemists of all faiths including Sikhs will be on my side.
2. That is the same rhetoric as well known bigots including present Islamic fundamentalists.
3. The whole situation was STARTED and escalated by the Kalistan separists including JB. JB escalated the matter to a point where the Golden Temple was stormed, this led to the assasination of Indira Ghandi. Many, incenced by the actions of Sikhs, brought the matter to a watershed by indiscriminantly killing innocent men, women and children of the Sikh faith. so:-
a) Who actually STARTED it ? b) Who escalated it ? c) Armed Militia is unlawful in any civilised country. Can you hold loaded weapons in a Southall Gurdwara? d) Two Sikh coward 'bodyguards' killed an unarmed Indian Prime Minister whom she trusted implicitly. This further escalation of events led to many thousands of unarmed Sikhs being also brutally murdered.
Conclusion of all non-exteemists are that separation of lands and faiths by violence,
inevitably leads to muder of innocent people.
4. JB was not accused of being a violent terrorist whilst he was detained. He proved that later.
Agreed Gurwaras, like Churches, Temples etc..were forts and places of refuge in ancient history. I think you should read present day law and not live in a text book past
5. I do. Many civilians left whilst many followers of of JB stayed. Clearly it was JB's plan to keep as many civilians inside the Temple as a shield…(common with other terrorists) Finally, yes I do think they were lying or very stupid.
6 & 7. I am quite happy for Sikhs to negotiate an independant state with both India and Pakistan and call it Kalistan… I will vote for that and say good riddance to all of you !
However, if the Indian and Pakistani majority people democratically do not wish it, then I am sorry. Try and negotiate an independant Sikh state of Southall.
My argument rests.
Now that 1984 is behind us and the Sikh militants have been wholly marginalised, ordinary Sikhs such as the Indian PM can get on with their own lives. Finally, I am not a Sikh and do not wish to be one.
BBCviewer. I don’t intend to come back on your points as there is no point. You have showed yourself for what you really are… it was just a matter of time until you revealed your true colours. Typical condescending attitude of high a Born Hindu (I’m assuming your high born but from your comments is debatable) who doesn’t know what its like to be treated like a second class citizen in their own country. In fact sorry maybe you do as I assume you live in England. I’m sure you would love to vote to be rid of all of us, I sure our very existence in your country keeps up at night, so no wonder your so happy that the Darbar Shaib was attacked and lots of Sikhs killed. You do sound a little like a fascist are you sure you don’t subscribe to a certain party still found on the fringes in Germany? They wanted to be rid of all those Jews too. Your final comments just show your arrogance and lack of intellect. I was trying to have a constructive discussion but it was just too much for you wasn’t it? couldn’t help but try and be clever and ridicule. You have in any event proved my case in point while there are people like you around how will any minority be able to live with honour or dignity within a majority full of the likes of you.
Avi, sorry you have taken this to a personal level. I was discussing the matter a a general issue. I am not a facist or racist. I am however, educated and have travelled practically all over the world. With regard to India, it is a unique place. The worlds biggest democracy and the most diverse country in the world. I and many others see India as a future model for this planet. India has promoted minorities more than any other country e.g. with regard to untouchables, moslems, sikhs Jews etc in high places. The USA is catching up with a half black president.
Avi, I do not know your education or how much you have travelled and lived within a mixed society, if you haven't then that may explain the views that you hold. From my point of view we should not only celebrate the diversity and richness in our society but also the many things we have in common e.g. friendship, sport, music, art etc..etc.. If you have a chance take a trip to Brazil and see how a mixed culture can really live happily together.
In contrast to the above, I do not like or accept people who are fanatical about the personal matter of ones own religion, their eagerness to show onto others their personal faith, and finally their stance on creating a state based on religion. All of these have caused so much blood to be spilled over centuries and still today idiotic people have not learned the history of the past.
BBCviewer, I took it to a personal level? You are not a Sikh, nor do you want to be one… …you would vote to be rid of us all… maybe we should take Southall as a independent state.. all extracts from your blogs… You made this personal not me you are now trying to do what your types always do and duck the issues and come up with some nonsense about education and travelling the world. You could have travelled to Timbuktu for all I care and seen a lost civilisation on the way. If you think India is a model for the world we really are in trouble… BBCviewer you don’t need to know my education or how much I have travelled you don’t even know what my views are…??!! I am fully aware of the richness and beauty of a balanced and integrated society. Those societies are born in a true democracy not a sham one like the one found in India where votes are brought for a bottle of whiskey or cold hard cash… I do not like or accept people who ridicule others or condescend others beliefs to show how smart they are (or not as the case may be) or in fact seek to elicit conflict by stirring the religious pot. So what I say to such idiotic people is learn from your experiences…maybe reflect in Brazil….
Avi, You have missed the point. I was not personal against you as an individual. I was writing in the 1st and 3rd person. Not in the 2nd person as you have done. Yes, if Sikhs want an independent state in the Punjab, I am all for it so what is wrong with that ? I do not want religious fanatics anywhere near me. I am not ridiculing anyone. I just think many people on this blog are just sad. Get a life !!
i havent missed the point. I think you have though. so i suggest you get a life and stop reading the blog if its so sad.
BBC Viewer. I will deal with your points in turn.
1.Firstly you are classing Sant JB as terrorist. That is matter of perspective and in yours you have deemed him to be one therefore you are capable of comparing him to other known terrorist like Bin Laden. So it really does depend on which side of the fence you are sitting on, it’s clear which side you are on but for me he was a freedom fighter and religious leader. Having said that are you able to find any evidence to support the fact that Sant JB promoted or encouraged violence? I don’t think you will be able to, whereas Bin Laden actively promotes violence against any non Muslim. Can you show me any evidence that Sant JB talked in derogative terms about any other religion? Your comparison is utter nonsense and in fact offensive.
2.Symbolic you say, the weapons are in Gudwara to show all that we are prepared to defend our faith if it’s under attack. Its doesn’t mean we will not revert to the whatever is necessary be that a gun or otherwise.
3.I agree civilians were killed in the cross fire but who started the attack??? And why was it started on the Gurpurb? When the complex was packed? The army had the place on lock down so why did they allow civilians in? You seem to missing the real issues my friend or you don’t want to see them.
4.Coward who died in battle!!! he was in custody before being released why didn’t they keep him inside?? Again missing the point. Also Gudwara and forts have always been used in time of defence read your history.
5.Clearly you seem to be very pro Indian government. Delicate? They didn’t have to enter or attack they were ordered to….also if as you say everyone was given the chance to leave why didn’t the civilians? They clearly said on the documentary that they were not told or given the option of leaving.. You really think they were lying?
6.why is it not possible? Have you heard of Israel? Kosov and any number of other countries populated by minorities.
7.I cant see why it wouldn’t as with most people you fail to see the beauty of independent state. Yes it would be for Sikhs but not to preclude others. You may wish to read about Mahraja Ranjit Singh and his Kingdom. Also you’re unelected PM has little or no power, are we supposed to be grateful for his appointment?
I have never said that I am an Indian, but I am a proud to be a Sikh. Maybe you should think about if you actually want to be a Sikh.
JB was a terrorist. going around the pinds and forcibly making people turn to sikhism and where turbans is not the way. you go to punjab and speak to some older people you know and they will tell you the truth. people are actually scared to cuss him in front of camera…what does that tell you?. He may of held strong values but you cannot force them on people. As for holding up in the golden temple, that was the biggest sin. He knew it would be ripped apart. forts and temples may have been used 500 years ago but we are not living in the past. to load weopons into the holiest Sikh shrine and laugh as it is blown up is sickening.
Avi, taking your points also:-
1. I think you will find that all non-exteemists of all faiths including Sikhs will be on my side.
2. That is the same rhetoric as well known bigots including present Islamic fundamentalists.
3. The whole situation was STARTED and escalated by the Kalistan separists including JB. JB escalated the matter to a point where the Golden Temple was stormed, this led to the assasination of Indira Ghandi. Many, incenced by the actions of Sikhs, brought the matter to a watershed by indiscriminantly killing innocent men, women and children of the Sikh faith. so:-
a) Who actually STARTED it ? b) Who escalated it ? c) Armed Militia is unlawful in any civilised country. Can you hold loaded weapons in a Southall Gurdwara? d) Two Sikh coward 'bodyguards' killed an unarmed Indian Prime Minister whom she trusted implicitly. This further escalation of events led to many thousands of unarmed Sikhs being also brutally murdered.
Conclusion of all non-exteemists are that separation of lands and faiths by violence,
inevitably leads to muder of innocent people.
4. JB was not accused of being a violent terrorist whilst he was detained. He proved that later.
Agreed Gurwaras, like Churches, Temples etc..were forts and places of refuge in ancient history. I think you should read present day law and not live in a text book past
5. I do. Many civilians left whilst many followers of of JB stayed. Clearly it was JB's plan to keep as many civilians inside the Temple as a shield…(common with other terrorists) Finally, yes I do think they were lying or very stupid.
6 & 7. I am quite happy for Sikhs to negotiate an independant state with both India and Pakistan and call it Kalistan… I will vote for that and say good riddance to all of you !
However, if the Indian and Pakistani majority people democratically do not wish it, then I am sorry. Try and negotiate an independant Sikh state of Southall.
My argument rests.
Now that 1984 is behind us and the Sikh militants have been wholly marginalised, ordinary Sikhs such as the Indian PM can get on with their own lives. Finally, I am not a Sikh and do not wish to be one.
BBCviewer. I don’t intend to come back on your points as there is no point. You have showed yourself for what you really are… it was just a matter of time until you revealed your true colours. Typical condescending attitude of high a Born Hindu (I’m assuming your high born but from your comments is debatable) who doesn’t know what its like to be treated like a second class citizen in their own country. In fact sorry maybe you do as I assume you live in England. I’m sure you would love to vote to be rid of all of us, I sure our very existence in your country keeps up at night, so no wonder your so happy that the Darbar Shaib was attacked and lots of Sikhs killed. You do sound a little like a fascist are you sure you don’t subscribe to a certain party still found on the fringes in Germany? They wanted to be rid of all those Jews too. Your final comments just show your arrogance and lack of intellect. I was trying to have a constructive discussion but it was just too much for you wasn’t it? couldn’t help but try and be clever and ridicule. You have in any event proved my case in point while there are people like you around how will any minority be able to live with honour or dignity within a majority full of the likes of you.
Avi, sorry you have taken this to a personal level. I was discussing the matter a a general issue. I am not a facist or racist. I am however, educated and have travelled practically all over the world. With regard to India, it is a unique place. The worlds biggest democracy and the most diverse country in the world. I and many others see India as a future model for this planet. India has promoted minorities more than any other country e.g. with regard to untouchables, moslems, sikhs Jews etc in high places. The USA is catching up with a half black president.
Avi, I do not know your education or how much you have travelled and lived within a mixed society, if you haven't then that may explain the views that you hold. From my point of view we should not only celebrate the diversity and richness in our society but also the many things we have in common e.g. friendship, sport, music, art etc..etc.. If you have a chance take a trip to Brazil and see how a mixed culture can really live happily together.
In contrast to the above, I do not like or accept people who are fanatical about the personal matter of ones own religion, their eagerness to show onto others their personal faith, and finally their stance on creating a state based on religion. All of these have caused so much blood to be spilled over centuries and still today idiotic people have not learned the history of the past.
BBCviewer, I took it to a personal level? You are not a Sikh, nor do you want to be one… …you would vote to be rid of us all… maybe we should take Southall as a independent state.. all extracts from your blogs… You made this personal not me you are now trying to do what your types always do and duck the issues and come up with some nonsense about education and travelling the world. You could have travelled to Timbuktu for all I care and seen a lost civilisation on the way. If you think India is a model for the world we really are in trouble… BBCviewer you don’t need to know my education or how much I have travelled you don’t even know what my views are…??!! I am fully aware of the richness and beauty of a balanced and integrated society. Those societies are born in a true democracy not a sham one like the one found in India where votes are brought for a bottle of whiskey or cold hard cash… I do not like or accept people who ridicule others or condescend others beliefs to show how smart they are (or not as the case may be) or in fact seek to elicit conflict by stirring the religious pot. So what I say to such idiotic people is learn from your experiences…maybe reflect in Brazil….
Avi, You have missed the point. I was not personal against you as an individual. I was writing in the 1st and 3rd person. Not in the 2nd person as you have done. Yes, if Sikhs want an independent state in the Punjab, I am all for it so what is wrong with that ? I do not want religious fanatics anywhere near me. I am not ridiculing anyone. I just think many people on this blog are just sad. Get a life !!
i havent missed the point. I think you have though. so i suggest you get a life and stop reading the blog if its so sad.
Good documetnary it really bought my attention to what had happened in 84, feel so sorry for the Sikh's, they deserve Khalistan.
Can someone tell me, are Sikhs still fighting for their own state/country – Khalistan?
as to your question Mike sections of Sikhs who still feel the great injustice done to them still to this day are fighting for the state of Khalistan …with gods grace it will become a reality
Good documetnary it really bought my attention to what had happened in 84, feel so sorry for the Sikh's, they deserve Khalistan.
Can someone tell me, are Sikhs still fighting for their own state/country – Khalistan?
as to your question Mike sections of Sikhs who still feel the great injustice done to them still to this day are fighting for the state of Khalistan …with gods grace it will become a reality
BBC Viewer, I might not be a Rocket scientist. You clearly are one and therefore can make fantastically comments and compare an out and out terrorist to someone who preached gods name. As for the arms etc.. have you ever been to a Gudwara? If you have you will see all manner of arms on display before Guru Granth Shaib Ji.. are they any different from guns and bullets? Or do you not know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught us that being a Saint in this world is not enough and that you must also be a solider? Please remind me di Sant JB kill civilians? Did tell his followers to kill civilians in the name of Sikhi? No is the answer, you comparison holds no substance. Do you really think that they would have not entered the complex had he come out? You are ill-informed. The Govt had been training for an attack on the Golden Temple for 6months before. In was going to happen to teach us a lesson and stop the push for independence or further autonomy. Its easy to blame someone who actually did something for us as a people, Sant JB awoke the Sikhs both in India and in the UK.
Avi, you have made the comparison yourself in the text above:-
1. Both are terrorists 'who preached gods name'
2. Gudwara hold symbolic symbols, not rocket launchers and fully automatic weapons
3. JB killed a lot of civilians in the crossfire as did the Indian Army. You can say Bin Laden has not directly killed a civilian – its a matter of perspective.
4. The Army would have entered the temple to release it back as a Temple to the Sikh faith and not for JB to hijack and hide behind it as a coward to avaoid arrest – I don't think a real Sikh saint would act in that way !
5. Clearly, the Govt needed to prepare for a very serious and delicate situation, making sure that JB had the opportunity to leave the Temple safely.
6. Yes, independance for the sake of a minority in India is not possible. If JB was such a heroic saint why did he not take his efforts to Pakistan Punjab ??.
7. Finally, I wonder if a Kalistan Republic would ever pass on the premier minister post to an unelected Hindu.
Avi, together with other so called proud Sikhs on this post. Please decide weather you are Indian or Sikhs and not Indian just when it suits you !!
BBC Viewer, I might not be a Rocket scientist. You clearly are one and therefore can make fantastically comments and compare an out and out terrorist to someone who preached gods name. As for the arms etc.. have you ever been to a Gudwara? If you have you will see all manner of arms on display before Guru Granth Shaib Ji.. are they any different from guns and bullets? Or do you not know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught us that being a Saint in this world is not enough and that you must also be a solider? Please remind me di Sant JB kill civilians? Did tell his followers to kill civilians in the name of Sikhi? No is the answer, you comparison holds no substance. Do you really think that they would have not entered the complex had he come out? You are ill-informed. The Govt had been training for an attack on the Golden Temple for 6months before. In was going to happen to teach us a lesson and stop the push for independence or further autonomy. Its easy to blame someone who actually did something for us as a people, Sant JB awoke the Sikhs both in India and in the UK.
Avi, you have made the comparison yourself in the text above:-
1. Both are terrorists 'who preached gods name'
2. Gudwara hold symbolic symbols, not rocket launchers and fully automatic weapons
3. JB killed a lot of civilians in the crossfire as did the Indian Army. You can say Bin Laden has not directly killed a civilian – its a matter of perspective.
4. The Army would have entered the temple to release it back as a Temple to the Sikh faith and not for JB to hijack and hide behind it as a coward to avaoid arrest – I don't think a real Sikh saint would act in that way !
5. Clearly, the Govt needed to prepare for a very serious and delicate situation, making sure that JB had the opportunity to leave the Temple safely.
6. Yes, independance for the sake of a minority in India is not possible. If JB was such a heroic saint why did he not take his efforts to Pakistan Punjab ??.
7. Finally, I wonder if a Kalistan Republic would ever pass on the premier minister post to an unelected Hindu.
Avi, together with other so called proud Sikhs on this post. Please decide weather you are Indian or Sikhs and not Indian just when it suits you !!
Indra G obviousiously planned and calculated events to stamp out the threat of an independent state. Her error in thinking a non politician like JB will be a good ally back fired. I have read he was supported by a large number of powerful government figures in his cause for Khalsa.
Looking at how he resisted and held off the army at the Golden Temple shows a lot of organisation and some military guidance. I have read of reports claiming that it was congress themselves who attacked Hindu’s and blamed JB to incite hatred for the Sikhs. It seems very possible and a good way for her to achieve her goal. In the interview with Brar he said the media was blacked out because they were afraid that the whole of Punjab will come and attack his troops. Did they really think that Sikhs could possibly face their weapons with sticks and stones. And if they knew the reaction will be fierce what did they expect would happen after they destroyed the Golden Temple.
Indra G obviousiously planned and calculated events to stamp out the threat of an independent state. Her error in thinking a non politician like JB will be a good ally back fired. I have read he was supported by a large number of powerful government figures in his cause for Khalsa.
Looking at how he resisted and held off the army at the Golden Temple shows a lot of organisation and some military guidance. I have read of reports claiming that it was congress themselves who attacked Hindu’s and blamed JB to incite hatred for the Sikhs. It seems very possible and a good way for her to achieve her goal. In the interview with Brar he said the media was blacked out because they were afraid that the whole of Punjab will come and attack his troops. Did they really think that Sikhs could possibly face their weapons with sticks and stones. And if they knew the reaction will be fierce what did they expect would happen after they destroyed the Golden Temple.
She could not of thought that JG (a self made enemy) was an eminent threat to security but she still chose to attack on a day that would created maximum damage. Hardly a measured approach but certainly one that would send a message to all Sikhs
who dared to even think of independence.
A question I wanted to see addressed was if the massacre in Delhi was an organised one. As it seems hard for me to understand how normal everyday people could brutally murder, rape, torture, abuse children, cause such destruction. I mean the speed in which thousands of Sikhs met their fatal deaths is unbelievable. This must have been very difficult to do. In less than 72 hrs to kill so many. I cannot see how a MP dying could change the average Joe to a mass killing machine.
If it is to be believed that the Government had no part in it, why has there not been a single person charged, punished or held accountable. After so many years no justice for those who’s life’s have been damaged. Just more pain as those ministers who were involved are glorified and honoured. Its so hurtful to see that still today the value of our lives for India is NOTHING..
She could not of thought that JG (a self made enemy) was an eminent threat to security but she still chose to attack on a day that would created maximum damage. Hardly a measured approach but certainly one that would send a message to all Sikhs
who dared to even think of independence.
A question I wanted to see addressed was if the massacre in Delhi was an organised one. As it seems hard for me to understand how normal everyday people could brutally murder, rape, torture, abuse children, cause such destruction. I mean the speed in which thousands of Sikhs met their fatal deaths is unbelievable. This must have been very difficult to do. In less than 72 hrs to kill so many. I cannot see how a MP dying could change the average Joe to a mass killing machine.
If it is to be believed that the Government had no part in it, why has there not been a single person charged, punished or held accountable. After so many years no justice for those who’s life’s have been damaged. Just more pain as those ministers who were involved are glorified and honoured. Its so hurtful to see that still today the value of our lives for India is NOTHING..
http://rapidshare.com/files/334346268/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334356247/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334363565/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334370466/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334381029/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334380123/1984_A_Sikh…
No Pass
http://rapidshare.com/files/334346268/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334356247/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334363565/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334370466/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334381029/1984_A_Sikh…
http://rapidshare.com/files/334380123/1984_A_Sikh…
No Pass
Sonia Deol has no doubt attempted to bought out this serious issue to the broader public or those who are not sikhs. In my opinion she did miss out on many important issues, but thats besides the point. She was brave enough to touch on this topic and produce a documentry on 1984. I feel that maybe she wanted to increase the content of the programme, however Indian government may have put restrictions otherwise the whole truth would come out. This is a kick start for sikhs, hopefully in future we could produce something in more detail and presented it to the public to decide. All well said and gone. Every one know the conspiracies government had played in 1984, unfortunate thing is there is no justic being done till this late. The fact that sikhs are in minority our voice never gets heard, which is very regretful.
Sonia Deol has no doubt attempted to bought out this serious issue to the broader public or those who are not sikhs. In my opinion she did miss out on many important issues, but thats besides the point. She was brave enough to touch on this topic and produce a documentry on 1984. I feel that maybe she wanted to increase the content of the programme, however Indian government may have put restrictions otherwise the whole truth would come out. This is a kick start for sikhs, hopefully in future we could produce something in more detail and presented it to the public to decide. All well said and gone. Every one know the conspiracies government had played in 1984, unfortunate thing is there is no justic being done till this late. The fact that sikhs are in minority our voice never gets heard, which is very regretful.
Since India's independence there have been many communal riots Gujarat in 1969, 1989, 1992-93, and 2002 respectively. Despite economic growth India is an intolerant country for minority religious communities. Contineous propaganda that the growing minority population poses a demographic danger.
Since India's independence there have been many communal riots Gujarat in 1969, 1989, 1992-93, and 2002 respectively. Despite economic growth India is an intolerant country for minority religious communities. Contineous propaganda that the growing minority population poses a demographic danger.
I think that we all Sikhs should get our facts right about our teachings and don't just dive in like a headless chicken.First of all we must keep our selves calm( that is if one has read and understood the teraching),if there is a issue to be discussed,do it in a professional way.We are living in 21st century not 14th.Thing around us have gone forward and there should be an modern debate,without bringing in angered veiws.Most people follow certain religous believes as sheep,without really understanding the ACTUAL meanings.I am not an fully pledged Sikh,but may be on day,after all the falshood which is going on with our society.
I think that we all Sikhs should get our facts right about our teachings and don't just dive in like a headless chicken.First of all we must keep our selves calm( that is if one has read and understood the teraching),if there is a issue to be discussed,do it in a professional way.We are living in 21st century not 14th.Thing around us have gone forward and there should be an modern debate,without bringing in angered veiws.Most people follow certain religous believes as sheep,without really understanding the ACTUAL meanings.I am not an fully pledged Sikh,but may be on day,after all the falshood which is going on with our society.
No one wants to insight anger, of course many non sikhs helped save lifes and it should never be forgotten. Its the politics thats to blame nothing else. How exactly are you going to have this professional debate if no one wants to mention it ever happened. If you have a suggestion on how to get answers or move forward please let us know. I dont think there is any to do just accept these thing happen in India and no lessons ever get learned.
No one wants to insight anger, of course many non sikhs helped save lifes and it should never be forgotten. Its the politics thats to blame nothing else. How exactly are you going to have this professional debate if no one wants to mention it ever happened. If you have a suggestion on how to get answers or move forward please let us know. I dont think there is any to do just accept these thing happen in India and no lessons ever get learned.
"Let's teach our children about the best examples of achievement through hard work and struggle. … Let's not encourage children to be victims."
"Let's teach our children about the best examples of achievement through hard work and struggle. … Let's not encourage children to be victims."
I also agree that the seperate state of Khalistan would bring no benefit to the majority Sikh people, if anything it will further radicalise our religion and leave no place for the 'average Sikh or western Sikh'. A seperate state would simply serve the fundamentalists/extremists and obliterate other elements of our punjabi cultural heritage which many of us love and enjoy. Something else which is not often publicised, is the ban on popular punjabi music/bhangra and dance during Bhindrawales era in many villages because it was said to encourage inappropriate behaviour and distract people from religion. Whilst Bhindrawala may have not himself instigated this, this kind of practice was said to been supported by his movement.
You only have to look at the Middle East to see that dividing land on religous grounds does not work. Further, I do not understand why Western Sikhs support the Khalistan notion, would we want to be divided from other religions in the UK? I enjoy living in the UK and like working and socialising with people from different backgrounds (religous and cultural), so we would we advocate anything different in India/Punjab.
I also agree that the seperate state of Khalistan would bring no benefit to the majority Sikh people, if anything it will further radicalise our religion and leave no place for the 'average Sikh or western Sikh'. A seperate state would simply serve the fundamentalists/extremists and obliterate other elements of our punjabi cultural heritage which many of us love and enjoy. Something else which is not often publicised, is the ban on popular punjabi music/bhangra and dance during Bhindrawales era in many villages because it was said to encourage inappropriate behaviour and distract people from religion. Whilst Bhindrawala may have not himself instigated this, this kind of practice was said to been supported by his movement.
You only have to look at the Middle East to see that dividing land on religous grounds does not work. Further, I do not understand why Western Sikhs support the Khalistan notion, would we want to be divided from other religions in the UK? I enjoy living in the UK and like working and socialising with people from different backgrounds (religous and cultural), so we would we advocate anything different in India/Punjab.
The "bbcViewer" reads and types up all that tripe, then comments on the readers being sad … lol
The “bbcViewer” reads and types up all that tripe, then comments on the readers being sad … lol
It just a TV show. Get on with your lives.
If you want the truth – The murders of innocent Hindus – men, women and children dragged from buses and shot to death, the murder of innocent children with bombs in toys, should be covered too. Call it what it was – a movement that went bad to worst. Bhindrawale deserved what he got. He and his followers were and ARE still terrorists.
It just a TV show. Get on with your lives.
If you want the truth – The murders of innocent Hindus – men, women and children dragged from buses and shot to death, the murder of innocent children with bombs in toys, should be covered too. Call it what it was – a movement that went bad to worst. Bhindrawale deserved what he got. He and his followers were and ARE still terrorists.
The film starts its narrative from 1984 which gives the Sikhs a sense of victimhood because of the murderous anti- Sikh riots that all condemn.
But most Sikhs living abroad are not told of the terrifying phase from 1978-1984, when murdering gangs of Sikh separatists were on the rampage in Punjab, often targetting hindus, in some instances ordering them off buses and gunning them down. Many were under the patronage of Bhindranwale. The Sikhs, particularly those living abroad, are ignorant or are in denial of these events. The most ridiculous statements I have heard is that those Sikh terrorists were actually govt agents.
I lived in Delhi till 1993 and some of my closest friends were both Hindus Sikhs so I can claim a fairly close hand knowledge of events on the ground. I was also a doctor who treated numerous Sikh victims during the riots, as well as some Sikh terrorists later, who were some of the most dangerous and brainwashed individuals I ever had the misfortune to meet.
Bhindranwale started a vicious war against India and the Hindus, and when Punjab was on the verge of vivisection and another bloody partition, the Indian govt and Army moved in. Yes, easy to criticise the botched action that followed, but let me emphasise- the temple was not desecrated by the Army moving in, it was desecrated by Bhindranwale and his gang who moved in with rockets and heavy armaments.
Punjab bled, India bled, it is time to move on.
How blind and fake can people like Dr Devesh Misra be?