REVIEW – 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC
Guestblogged by Joo Kay Singh
I’ve just spent the past hour watching 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC1 in the UK, and came away mildly disappointed, but not altogether surprised.
The documentary was framed as a “personal journey” for the presenter, Sonia Deol, to “unravel the events of 1984, an iconic year for Sikhs”, and informs us that “the bloody aftermath that followed [of Indira Gandhi’s assassination] so shocks Sonia that she is forced to reappraise the depth of her commitment to her faith”
For the first part of the program, we were served up with interviews mainly with Mark Tully and K.S. Brar who sounded like they were both regurgitating paragraphs from their respective books on the subject on the background to the Invasion. Sant Jarnail Singh was given the usual ‘congress stooge turned bad’ treatment by both, and the Darbar Sahib invasion covered without a hint of investigative journalism. Sonia failed to enquire why 37 other gurdwaras were attacked on the same day, if as per Tully and Brar’s insistence, Indira Gandhi was merely interested in Sant Bhindrawale. She similarly fails to question either of the men on the timing of the attack, on why the entire state of Panjab was placed under curfew, the expulsion of all foreign media, or the killings of pilgrims by the Army.
The second part moves onto the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s assassination, and the tone was set when she describes the events as “riots”, which even the most partisan commentators would agree they were not. There are a few interviews with Widows, a passing mention of alleged police complicity in an interview with some witnesses – but virtually nothing on political involvement and certainly no interviews with police or Congress officials on their role. The one person of note she did interview, Harvinder Singh Phoolka – a lawyer who fought for justice for the past 25 years, was only done in the context of him leading an organisation who planted saplings in memory of the victims. I’m sure he would have liked to move beyond that, and share his detailed knowledge of how the pogroms were orchestrated and who was to blame.
One of the most disappointing aspects of this program, for me, were that the events of 1984 and the interviews with the widows were playing bridesmaid to a pretty soppy central narrative – that of Sonia Deol attempting to “reappraise the depth of her commitment to her faith”. We are shown a few emotional scenes after she interviews witnesses and survivors of the invasion and the pogroms, but then she ends the program doing some bhangra with some families in Delhi celebrating diwali, proclaiming all is now well in India.
The second area of disappointment was how little Sonia really probed into the events of 1984, highlighted by the choice of interviewees and a script that could almost have been written by the GOI’s Press Office.
At the outset, I did say that although I was disappointed overall, I wasn’t very surprised. The first reason is that Sonia Deol isn’t exactly a Rageh Omar or Jeremy Paxman; she’s a Radio Presenter on the BBC Asian Network with self-admittedly little knowledge of 1984, so I would have been more surprised to see her asking tough and probing questions, or even knowing who to ask the right questions. That leads me to the second point; the location producer for this program was Mandeep Singh Bajwa, who if you follow his comments online and on the Sikh eGroups, comes across as a poster-boy for the GOI. So it’s no surprise that he’s the man that the GOI have instructed the BBC to use for all their interviews – if they want permission to be in India at all. Couple the above with some inside information that Sonia Deol was the third-choice presenter, suggests to me that the powers that-be at the BBC weren’t altogether interested in producing anything serious either.
Here’s to hoping the next 25 years will bring something more insightful documentaries covering 1984!
309 Responses to “REVIEW – 1984: A Sikh Story on BBC”
Mandeep Singh Bajwa is a RAW agent and minor minion of the Nazi Hindu goons who attacked Golden Temple. It is a shame and a disgrace for Sonia Deol to have Bajwa as a point man in india, a "TUKKERBOCH Kutta of his Hindu masters who pretty much is the online rep for Hindu agencies . Tully of BBC was also on payroll of Indian agencies during those tumultuous years and photostat copies of payment given to him by GOI are available on line. He was part and parcel of the propaganda and disinformation network of GOI.
Sikhs should strongly protest to BBC and demand this women Sonia should be completely debarred from covering Sikh issues. They should also present their own version and demand equal time from BBC.
now come on be reasonable – no need to take things that far – i don't like the woman either but no need to ban her!
definately a step too far! she admitted not knowing a lot about the subject, yes she could have covered more issues but on the other hand she was trying to give a balanced view on the subject, as it is easy to becoming caught up on propaganda from either side. I personally don't think the indian government were right to bombard Harmandir Sahib but I also question Bindrawales thought process, surely he knew that innocent civilians would die if he stayed there. There are always two sides to a coin and I think that is what was trying to be portrayed in a short documentary that could in reality have been an entire series!
why should she be banned? theres no reason for it, she made a good attempt, im proud of the woman.
her hands were tied, she couldnt show too much of how the congress were involved but atleast she made the first step.
it was a very mild and simple documentary about her own journey and not a political documentary. and also remember that she is working for the bbc and so therefore she has to comply to their rules.
and lastly, its called harmandir sahib.. not golden temple. sukhs dont worship in temples we worship at the gurudwara and theres a fundamental difference between the two. look it up in a dictionary
By saying that its not a temple.. the point you are trying to make is Sikhs go to Gurudwaras and Hindus go to temple and you have not got anything to do with HIndus,
You wrote its called Harmandir sahib..for your kind information "Har" is another name for Lord Krishna and Mandir means temple. Firstly go and read the history of the Sikh religion. I am sure you wouldn't even know that Gurunanakdev ji was born in a hindu family.
in a temple people worship idols
guru granth sahib ji maharaj is not merely an idol
so i think maybe you dont uderstand the meaning
and it doesnt matter what guru nanak dev ji was born as, its about what they lived as
and i know my history
dont make ridiculous assumptions about people
Sarbjit Kaur- You ridiculed your own religion by saying that ..it doesn't matter what family Gurunanakdevji was born in. Also, in temple apart from worshiping idols we also worship Bhagwad Gita like Guru Granth sahib ji. What ever you say Sikhism is the religion found within Hinduism and it has got the same teachings as Hinduism. By showing these type of documentaries , dont try to separate yourself from hinduism.
If this documentary would have been about making people aware of 1984..it would have been fine, However it rather showed only one side of the story with no constructive conclusion. She still didn't give one answer about whether Bhindrawale was a terrorist or saint, the issue about which sikhs are themselves divided.
Me as a HIndu go to Gurudwaras and keep Gurunankdevjis picture in my temple made at home..but by keeping Bhindrawales picture next to Gurunankdevji..sikhs are insulting their own religion because he was a terrorist nothing else there was nothing saint about him..
In my view point , She only showed one side of the story .. she did not interview any Hindu victims during that period. For me the put off was the conclusion of the documentary . She ended the documentary by emphasizing on the riot victims, whereas it shoud have been about the root of the problem which was Bhindrawale. She should have summarised by making it clear whether Bhindrawale was a Saint or Terrorist. He was simply a terrorist and by putting his pictures in Gurudwaras alongside Gurunanakdevji you are insulting your own Gurus.
This documentary would send wrong message all over the world and it would generate hatred towards Hindus.
Bhindrawale was not the root of the problem, the Indian government was. They were the ones who gave a young Sikh with strong beliefs a position of power. They tried using him as their puppet then when he started to express his own views, which may have conflicted with the governments, they branded him an extremist who had gone out of control. I agree he was wrong to choose to fight from the Golden Temple, but the government should have never ordered an attack on a gurdwara! There were other ways to arrest Bhindrawale which wouldn't have harmed innocent people nor attack a place of such importance to the Sikh faith.
I agree with you to some extent, Rahul. I felt that it ended up being biased ‘against’ hindus even though that might not have been her intention at all. She tried her best to present a balanced view but couldn’t succeed too well. But hey, it’s a start.
@ sarabjit kaur: like rahul said, har’mandir’ … the word ‘mandir’ translates into what? umm temple rite? fanaticism and hatred knows no bounds, does it. i wish sikhs here actually followed sikhi as it is meant to be.
I too watched this programme. I have visited the Golden Temple and heard the history of the event from both Hindu and Sikh. How surprising that Sikhs see only one side. It is amazing how little has been learned since 1984. Sikhs seem to consider themselves blameless in this conflict. Neither side is ever blameless. The rule of law by an elected government must be adhered to otherwise it's anarchy. If anyone takes up arms against an elected government – then bear the consequences. We Irish suffered under British rule and ethnic cleansing for over 800 years with their massacres, rapes, discrimination, starvation, – you name it. We fought them because they were an occupying power, – a legitimate struggle. The Sikh 'takeover' of the Golden Temple was an unlawful act by militants. Don't dress it up in any other way. Guys – get over it – shit happens because we're all human and we make mistakes based on pointless ideals.
The Palestinians continue to fight the Israelis because they're an occupying force on their land, another legitimate struggle. No one condones mob violence, but those who act in ways which antagonise and promote racism or religious intolerance are not themselves blameless when consequences of their actions follow.
It is an accepted historical fact that the greatest force of division among peoples on the planet is religion. And yet, all peoples, in one way or another recognise, revere and pray to the one Creator, claiming Him for themselves against their religious 'enemy'. How incredibly stupid are we. How pathetic and sad must such human behavior be seen by our Creator – actions by so-called believers, all with varying allegiance to different belief systems. For what? It is ludicrous in the extreme and the sooner people on this planet abandon their individual narrow religious beliefs and interests and come to one belief in the one Creator and know that Love of all mankind is the only answer – then we will have a solution – and not until then. And what are the chances? The sstsupidity of human nature renders that possibility zero!
Don't blame Sonia Deol for what was an extremely difficult subject to present. It took courage to tackle it. It would take a series of in-depth programmes to cover this topic. And yet – one could almost guarantee that no matter how the coverage or balance – one side or the other or both would never be satisfied. Again – get over it and get along with your neighbor – life's too short – you'll be a long time dead!
My final thought – I would hope Sonia Deol does not change her name to her 'birth' faith – to do so is just an act of submitting to the controls exercised by that faith. Religion is all about control – nothing else. The human mind is a miracle of creation – until humans mess it up with the influences of the belief system they happen to be born into.
Belief in the Creator and His Love is all we need!
The film starts its narrative from 1984 which gives the Sikhs a sense of victimhood because of the murderous anti- Sikh riots that all condemn.
But most Sikhs living abroad are not told of the terrifying phase from 1978-1984, when murdering gangs of Sikh separatists were on the rampage in Punjab, often targetting hindus, in some instances ordering them off buses and gunning them down. Many were under the patronage of Bhindranwale. The Sikhs, particularly those living abroad, are ignorant or are in denial of these events. The most ridiculous statements I have heard is that those Sikh terrorists were actually govt agents.
I lived in Delhi till 1993 and some of my closest friends were both Hindus Sikhs so I can claim a fairly close hand knowledge of events on the ground. I was also a doctor who treated numerous Sikh victims during the riots, as well as some Sikh terrorists later, who were some of the most dangerous and brainwashed individuals I ever had the misfortune to meet.
Bhindranwale started a vicious war against India and the Hindus, and when Punjab was on the verge of vivisection and another bloody partition, the Indian govt and Army moved in. Yes, easy to criticise the botched action that followed, but let me emphasise- the temple was not desecrated by the Army moving in, it was desecrated by Bhindranwale and his gang who moved in with rockets and heavy armaments.
Punjab bled, India bled, it is time to move on.
the narrative of the documentary historized events of 1984 as a back drop to Sonia's journey from awareness of injustices against her community, a rediscovery of religion, an attraction to reactionary forces, a personal struggle ensues… a reconciliation to fate ….and she ultimately chooses to return live a happy life as a well behaved member of the secular British society, and choosing to keep her cut hair. Do you think the BBC are trying to tell us something?
Sonia seems like a nice person however she isn't very bright and the budget for the documentary probably barely covered her air fare, She didn't interview any dissenting voices or context from journalists, historians, activists, politicians in India, or even mention the Congress party!… but the Diwali party was a nice touch.
It is legitimate to critique this programme because tax payers fund the license fee and the BBC deliver this scrappy compromised 'documentary', and say to us shut up and take what your given.
All we have to do is make our own documentaries.
The film starts its narrative from 1984 which gives the Sikhs a sense of victimhood because of the murderous anti- Sikh riots that all condemn.
But most Sikhs living abroad are not told of the terrifying phase from 1978-1984, when murdering gangs of Sikh separatists were on the rampage in Punjab, often targetting hindus, in some instances ordering them off buses and gunning them down. Many were under the patronage of Bhindranwale. Some Sikhs, particularly those living abroad, are ignorant or are in denial of these events. The most ridiculous statements I have heard is that those Sikh terrorists were actually govt agents.
I lived in Delhi till 1993 and some of my closest friends were both Hindus and Sikhs so I can claim a fairly close hand knowledge of events on the ground. I was also a doctor who treated numerous Sikh victims during the riots, as well as some Sikh terrorists later, who were some of the most dangerous and brainwashed individuals I ever had the misfortune to meet.
Bhindranwale started a vicious war against India and the Hindus, and when Punjab was on the verge of vivisection and another bloody partition, the Indian govt and Army moved in. Yes, easy to criticise the botched action that followed, but let me emphasise- the temple was not desecrated by the Army moving in, it was desecrated by Bhindranwale and his gang who moved in with rockets and heavy armaments.
Punjab bled, India bled, it is time to move on.
Reply
Mandeep Singh Bajwa is a RAW agent and minor minion of the Nazi Hindu goons who attacked Golden Temple. It is a shame and a disgrace for Sonia Deol to have Bajwa as a point man in india, a "TUKKERBOCH Kutta of his Hindu masters who pretty much is the online rep for Hindu agencies . Tully of BBC was also on payroll of Indian agencies during those tumultuous years and photostat copies of payment given to him by GOI are available on line. He was part and parcel of the propaganda and disinformation network of GOI.
Sikhs should strongly protest to BBC and demand this women Sonia should be completely debarred from covering Sikh issues. They should also present their own version and demand equal time from BBC.
now come on be reasonable – no need to take things that far – i don't like the woman either but no need to ban her!
definately a step too far! she admitted not knowing a lot about the subject, yes she could have covered more issues but on the other hand she was trying to give a balanced view on the subject, as it is easy to becoming caught up on propaganda from either side. I personally don't think the indian government were right to bombard Harmandir Sahib but I also question Bindrawales thought process, surely he knew that innocent civilians would die if he stayed there. There are always two sides to a coin and I think that is what was trying to be portrayed in a short documentary that could in reality have been an entire series!
why should she be banned? theres no reason for it, she made a good attempt, im proud of the woman.
her hands were tied, she couldnt show too much of how the congress were involved but atleast she made the first step.
it was a very mild and simple documentary about her own journey and not a political documentary. and also remember that she is working for the bbc and so therefore she has to comply to their rules.
and lastly, its called harmandir sahib.. not golden temple. sukhs dont worship in temples we worship at the gurudwara and theres a fundamental difference between the two. look it up in a dictionary
By saying that its not a temple.. the point you are trying to make is Sikhs go to Gurudwaras and Hindus go to temple and you have not got anything to do with HIndus,
You wrote its called Harmandir sahib..for your kind information "Har" is another name for Lord Krishna and Mandir means temple. Firstly go and read the history of the Sikh religion. I am sure you wouldn't even know that Gurunanakdev ji was born in a hindu family.
in a temple people worship idols
guru granth sahib ji maharaj is not merely an idol
so i think maybe you dont uderstand the meaning
and it doesnt matter what guru nanak dev ji was born as, its about what they lived as
and i know my history
dont make ridiculous assumptions about people
Sarbjit Kaur- You ridiculed your own religion by saying that ..it doesn't matter what family Gurunanakdevji was born in. Also, in temple apart from worshiping idols we also worship Bhagwad Gita like Guru Granth sahib ji. What ever you say Sikhism is the religion found within Hinduism and it has got the same teachings as Hinduism. By showing these type of documentaries , dont try to separate yourself from hinduism.
If this documentary would have been about making people aware of 1984..it would have been fine, However it rather showed only one side of the story with no constructive conclusion. She still didn't give one answer about whether Bhindrawale was a terrorist or saint, the issue about which sikhs are themselves divided.
Me as a HIndu go to Gurudwaras and keep Gurunankdevjis picture in my temple made at home..but by keeping Bhindrawales picture next to Gurunankdevji..sikhs are insulting their own religion because he was a terrorist nothing else there was nothing saint about him..
In my view point , She only showed one side of the story .. she did not interview any Hindu victims during that period. For me the put off was the conclusion of the documentary . She ended the documentary by emphasizing on the riot victims, whereas it shoud have been about the root of the problem which was Bhindrawale. She should have summarised by making it clear whether Bhindrawale was a Saint or Terrorist. He was simply a terrorist and by putting his pictures in Gurudwaras alongside Gurunanakdevji you are insulting your own Gurus.
This documentary would send wrong message all over the world and it would generate hatred towards Hindus.
Bhindrawale was not the root of the problem, the Indian government was. They were the ones who gave a young Sikh with strong beliefs a position of power. They tried using him as their puppet then when he started to express his own views, which may have conflicted with the governments, they branded him an extremist who had gone out of control. I agree he was wrong to choose to fight from the Golden Temple, but the government should have never ordered an attack on a gurdwara! There were other ways to arrest Bhindrawale which wouldn't have harmed innocent people nor attack a place of such importance to the Sikh faith.
I agree with you to some extent, Rahul. I felt that it ended up being biased 'against' hindus even though that might not have been her intention at all. She tried her best to present a balanced view but couldn't succeed too well. But hey, it's a start.
@ sarabjit kaur: like rahul said, har'mandir' … the word 'mandir' translates into what? umm temple rite? fanaticism and hatred knows no bounds, does it. i wish sikhs here actually followed sikhi as it is meant to be.
I too watched this programme. I have visited the Golden Temple and heard the history of the event from both Hindu and Sikh. How surprising that Sikhs see only one side. It is amazing how little has been learned since 1984. Sikhs seem to consider themselves blameless in this conflict. Neither side is ever blameless. The rule of law by an elected government must be adhered to otherwise it’s anarchy. If anyone takes up arms against an elected government – then bear the consequences. We Irish suffered under British rule and ethnic cleansing for over 800 years with their massacres, rapes, discrimination, starvation, – you name it. We fought them because they were an occupying power, – a legitimate struggle. The Sikh ‘takeover’ of the Golden Temple was an unlawful act by militants. Don’t dress it up in any other way. Guys – get over it – shit happens because we’re all human and we make mistakes based on pointless ideals.
The Palestinians continue to fight the Israelis because they’re an occupying force on their land, another legitimate struggle. No one condones mob violence, but those who act in ways which antagonise and promote racism or religious intolerance are not themselves blameless when consequences of their actions follow.
It is an accepted historical fact that the greatest force of division among peoples on the planet is religion. And yet, all peoples, in one way or another recognise, revere and pray to the one Creator, claiming Him for themselves against their religious ‘enemy’. How incredibly stupid are we. How pathetic and sad must such human behavior be seen by our Creator – actions by so-called believers, all with varying allegiance to different belief systems. For what? It is ludicrous in the extreme and the sooner people on this planet abandon their individual narrow religious beliefs and interests and come to one belief in the one Creator and know that Love of all mankind is the only answer – then we will have a solution – and not until then. And what are the chances? The sstsupidity of human nature renders that possibility zero!
Don’t blame Sonia Deol for what was an extremely difficult subject to present. It took courage to tackle it. It would take a series of in-depth programmes to cover this topic. And yet – one could almost guarantee that no matter how the coverage or balance – one side or the other or both would never be satisfied. Again – get over it and get along with your neighbor – life’s too short – you’ll be a long time dead!
My final thought – I would hope Sonia Deol does not change her name to her ‘birth’ faith – to do so is just an act of submitting to the controls exercised by that faith. Religion is all about control – nothing else. The human mind is a miracle of creation – until humans mess it up with the influences of the belief system they happen to be born into.
Belief in the Creator and His Love is all we need!
The film starts its narrative from 1984 which gives the Sikhs a sense of victimhood because of the murderous anti- Sikh riots that all condemn.
But most Sikhs living abroad are not told of the terrifying phase from 1978-1984, when murdering gangs of Sikh separatists were on the rampage in Punjab, often targetting hindus, in some instances ordering them off buses and gunning them down. Many were under the patronage of Bhindranwale. The Sikhs, particularly those living abroad, are ignorant or are in denial of these events. The most ridiculous statements I have heard is that those Sikh terrorists were actually govt agents.
I lived in Delhi till 1993 and some of my closest friends were both Hindus Sikhs so I can claim a fairly close hand knowledge of events on the ground. I was also a doctor who treated numerous Sikh victims during the riots, as well as some Sikh terrorists later, who were some of the most dangerous and brainwashed individuals I ever had the misfortune to meet.
Bhindranwale started a vicious war against India and the Hindus, and when Punjab was on the verge of vivisection and another bloody partition, the Indian govt and Army moved in. Yes, easy to criticise the botched action that followed, but let me emphasise- the temple was not desecrated by the Army moving in, it was desecrated by Bhindranwale and his gang who moved in with rockets and heavy armaments.
Punjab bled, India bled, it is time to move on.
the narrative of the documentary historized events of 1984 as a back drop to Sonia's journey from awareness of injustices against her community, a rediscovery of religion, an attraction to reactionary forces, a personal struggle ensues… a reconciliation to fate ….and she ultimately chooses to return live a happy life as a well behaved member of the secular British society, and choosing to keep her cut hair. Do you think the BBC are trying to tell us something?
Sonia seems like a nice person however she isn't very bright and the budget for the documentary probably barely covered her air fare, She didn't interview any dissenting voices or context from journalists, historians, activists, politicians in India, or even mention the Congress party!… but the Diwali party was a nice touch.
It is legitimate to critique this programme because tax payers fund the license fee and the BBC deliver this scrappy compromised 'documentary', and say to us shut up and take what your given.
All we have to do is make our own documentaries.
The film starts its narrative from 1984 which gives the Sikhs a sense of victimhood because of the murderous anti- Sikh riots that all condemn.
But most Sikhs living abroad are not told of the terrifying phase from 1978-1984, when murdering gangs of Sikh separatists were on the rampage in Punjab, often targetting hindus, in some instances ordering them off buses and gunning them down. Many were under the patronage of Bhindranwale. Some Sikhs, particularly those living abroad, are ignorant or are in denial of these events. The most ridiculous statements I have heard is that those Sikh terrorists were actually govt agents.
I lived in Delhi till 1993 and some of my closest friends were both Hindus and Sikhs so I can claim a fairly close hand knowledge of events on the ground. I was also a doctor who treated numerous Sikh victims during the riots, as well as some Sikh terrorists later, who were some of the most dangerous and brainwashed individuals I ever had the misfortune to meet.
Bhindranwale started a vicious war against India and the Hindus, and when Punjab was on the verge of vivisection and another bloody partition, the Indian govt and Army moved in. Yes, easy to criticise the botched action that followed, but let me emphasise- the temple was not desecrated by the Army moving in, it was desecrated by Bhindranwale and his gang who moved in with rockets and heavy armaments.
Punjab bled, India bled, it is time to move on.
Reply
Great to see such a speedy review. I think that given the mix of 'personal journey' with 'serious political issue' the programme was bound to disappoint those who were seeking another sort of programme. Personally I think that given the challenges she faced, Sonia Deol did not do a bad job herself. I can see why though this doc would be so annoying to those who felt so much was left untold, or only told from a limited point of view. Some of the interviews were heart-wrenching.
Can you spill the beans on who the first two choices for presenter were?
Agreed .
We must write our own history after all it is about us.
See the magnitude of contribution we all did in WW 1 and 11 effort. .
Surprisingly not a single world war movie made shows the contribution of SIkhs or Indians.
Great to see such a speedy review. I think that given the mix of 'personal journey' with 'serious political issue' the programme was bound to disappoint those who were seeking another sort of programme. Personally I think that given the challenges she faced, Sonia Deol did not do a bad job herself. I can see why though this doc would be so annoying to those who felt so much was left untold, or only told from a limited point of view. Some of the interviews were heart-wrenching.
Can you spill the beans on who the first two choices for presenter were?
Agreed .
We must write our own history after all it is about us.
See the magnitude of contribution we all did in WW 1 and 11 effort. .
Surprisingly not a single world war movie made shows the contribution of SIkhs or Indians.
The program was for one hour so obviously she had to follow a certain structure, a start, middle and end. Regardless if she did not get it right, she certainly kept the 1984 issue alive and also gave a chance for those who know nothing about '84 to see what happened and even learn more about it themselves.
The other positive is that atleast she put her foot forward to do the program and do the best she could to present this one hour program.
The program for me was a revisit to the 1984 issue and it is clear that the Indian government should have handled the situation much better and it is purely the governments fault (thats if they call themselves a government). '84 should never had happened like it did!
I agree that '84 should never have happened but it did. I am also in agreement that there must have been a structure to follow. However, her personal comments about not knowing her own religion and the fact that she wants to change her name back to her birth given name and use "Kaur" but she simply can not becasue everyone already knows her as Sonia Deol took all credibility from her. She was vain, unable to ask Brar hard hitting questions and seemed to present cluelessness. As a reporter, if she was unfamiliar with facts it was her job to do a better job at research. Dancing at then end of the show which was about riots, killings, genocide and degradation of a race was not the proper way to close the show out. Regardless of the fact that it was Diwali. The show was not about Diwali. She was the token "sikh" chosen to represent "her" people. Poor choice and poor reporting. I mean no disrespect to your comments which were well expressed.
The program was for one hour so obviously she had to follow a certain structure, a start, middle and end. Regardless if she did not get it right, she certainly kept the 1984 issue alive and also gave a chance for those who know nothing about '84 to see what happened and even learn more about it themselves.
The other positive is that atleast she put her foot forward to do the program and do the best she could to present this one hour program.
The program for me was a revisit to the 1984 issue and it is clear that the Indian government should have handled the situation much better and it is purely the governments fault (thats if they call themselves a government). '84 should never had happened like it did!
I agree that '84 should never have happened but it did. I am also in agreement that there must have been a structure to follow. However, her personal comments about not knowing her own religion and the fact that she wants to change her name back to her birth given name and use "Kaur" but she simply can not becasue everyone already knows her as Sonia Deol took all credibility from her. She was vain, unable to ask Brar hard hitting questions and seemed to present cluelessness. As a reporter, if she was unfamiliar with facts it was her job to do a better job at research. Dancing at then end of the show which was about riots, killings, genocide and degradation of a race was not the proper way to close the show out. Regardless of the fact that it was Diwali. The show was not about Diwali. She was the token "sikh" chosen to represent "her" people. Poor choice and poor reporting. I mean no disrespect to your comments which were well expressed.
hi yes i agree that it was a soppy narrative and I thought the script was full of cliches – especially all her reflective stuff – and anyone else amazed that her real name is jaswinder kaur sidhu and it's "too late to change it back now" for goodness sake!!! that was a turn off but it was definitely not one sided so you're wrong to criticise it for that – we heard a lot about the killings and slaughter of sikhs afterwards and i learnt lots of stuff i didn't know which is the point after all.
hi yes i agree that it was a soppy narrative and I thought the script was full of cliches – especially all her reflective stuff – and anyone else amazed that her real name is jaswinder kaur sidhu and it's "too late to change it back now" for goodness sake!!! that was a turn off but it was definitely not one sided so you're wrong to criticise it for that – we heard a lot about the killings and slaughter of sikhs afterwards and i learnt lots of stuff i didn't know which is the point after all.
I came away very disappointed and in fact mildly annoyed after waiting up to see the much hyped programme. I think had people known the content there may have been less txt messages sent about it. I was left feeling uninformed and there was no uncovering of any of the real events of the attack or the aftermath. It simply skimmed over the issues. No mention of the political leader who instigated the killing or in fact any mention of them. Overall i felt cheated and although I'm glad Sonia would like to revert to her given name!!! i suppose all the expensive of making the program was worth that!!! The only good thing to come of it is that many who don’t recall or don’t know anything of what happen may look into it further and that cannot be a bad thing.
Remember that famous boxer who changed his name mid career!
Hey Avi
was you there as you seem to know a lot about what happened
I came away very disappointed and in fact mildly annoyed after waiting up to see the much hyped programme. I think had people known the content there may have been less txt messages sent about it. I was left feeling uninformed and there was no uncovering of any of the real events of the attack or the aftermath. It simply skimmed over the issues. No mention of the political leader who instigated the killing or in fact any mention of them. Overall i felt cheated and although I'm glad Sonia would like to revert to her given name!!! i suppose all the expensive of making the program was worth that!!! The only good thing to come of it is that many who don’t recall or don’t know anything of what happen may look into it further and that cannot be a bad thing.
Remember that famous boxer who changed his name mid career!
Hey Avi
was you there as you seem to know a lot about what happened
i feel that such a topic which is very close to sikhs required more air time and perhaps a more mature presenter. It just cant be honestly covered in the space of an hour. So there were time constrictions and had to give an"overview" almost.
Hopefully though, people will have watched it and realised that an awful atrocity occured and they can educate themselves further.
Sikhs hindus muslims, we CAN all live together in peace, i hope such atrocities never occur again.
i feel that such a topic which is very close to sikhs required more air time and perhaps a more mature presenter. It just cant be honestly covered in the space of an hour. So there were time constrictions and had to give an"overview" almost.
Hopefully though, people will have watched it and realised that an awful atrocity occured and they can educate themselves further.
Sikhs hindus muslims, we CAN all live together in peace, i hope such atrocities never occur again.
l can't believe this guy is still revered as sikh, he is a terorist and why was he using the shrine to hole himself up and store weapons, he knew they were coming and using the fact that it was a holy shrine and the fact that pilgrims were still inside for his own selfish gains-he himself is own of the main culprits for all this and yet many sikhs agree with this but wouldn't say so on camera- its the far right of any religion that l despise- l think indira's hands were tied- it was a very difficult decision which people later said she regretted but its a decision l totally understand- the worst of it all for me is the riots afterwards- then the lack of mention of the obvious congress involvement and lack of real justice and how senseless to kill innocent sikhs just because two sikhs killed a PM who they saw as a mother- its just a plain crazy mindset
Harmandir sahib is not only a gurudwara but also a fortress
look at the structure.
not only harmandir sahib, but most of the old gurudware were built to hold a double purpose, 1 for worship, and 2 for protection.
so any1 who says sant jarnail singh ji shouldnt have been there need to stop thinking purely with their heart and look at the facts.
even guru gobind singh ji fought from gurudware.
the government went in at the time they did, of their own initiative.
sant ji didnt send them an invitation to invade harmandir sahib on such a busy day.
and indras hands werent tied only an rss would think that. its politics.. theres never only 1 way to go around an issue.
In that case your saying it was also right for the army to storm the temple- he used people and used the temple and innocent piligrims for his own gains. So he was ok to use sacred ground and use it store weapons and grenades? Some of his shots and grenades l'm sure also his inncoent people as did the armies- mistakes on both sides. AS for the RSS, it was the BJP, Shiv Sena, RSS- far right Hindu organisations which protected sikhs in Maharasthra and Mumbai and prevented riots from happening in that state- whilst the congress- so called secular party- actively encouraged riots in Delhi.
im 1 of the very very few sikhs who doesnt think that the decision to go into harmandir sahib was wrong
but the timing and the amount of force they used was too much
i dont really care what other sikhs think of me for saying that, if its a war, civillians will die. but its up to the army to warn them and to evacuate them from the premesis. but that is something they didnt do
I agree 100% with this post. Who ever thought he was a saint is clearly misleaded. He may have initially stareted out with the right intent, but he managed to scew it up and became a terrorist. There is no one in my eyes left to blame for the amazing Darbar Shaib being runined but Jarnail Singh Bindrawale.
You do not set up your barracks in side a place of worship, you do not being clashes inside either.
He started something he was not prepared, and in the end, thousands of lives were turned upside down. Due to ONE person not wanting to back down and calm a situation.
How can u call js a terrorist. In what definition is he a terroirst? Someone who is proud of his faith, someone how does not tolerate insults on his faith, someone who fights for equal rights and a better life as a sikh in punjab? If thats a terrorist, then I would gladly be one myself. By studying his interviews, he seemed like a sikh to be proud of. He made sikhs unite, stop taking drugs etc. He was not an aggressor, but a defender. I just wish i was there fighting alongside, and making sure i killed more soliders along with Brar.
I think Sikhs are very divided on their views of Bhindrawale, after all it took the Shrimoni Prabanthak Committee until 2003 to offically declare him a martyr. People are afraid to talk openly about this very sensitive issue (as seen in the programme) because they are afraid of the the truth. I am also in the minority of Sikhs (although I think there are more than we think) that disagree with Bhindrawalas militant persona and his actions – particularly hiding in the Golden Temple after being given so many opportunities to surrender and give himself up. What is perhaps most upsetting is that he acheived NOTHING from hiding – instead innocent civilians were caught in the crossfire. In fast after reading so much about him, I am still not sure what he was trying to acheive when he hid in the Golden Temple.
how can you say that. 1st of all at the time of 84 there was some much army and police based at Amritsar they wrere like ants why did they not arrest the sikhs if they were bring arms in. Bhinderanwale was in police custody 6 mths before the attack if he was a threat why not charge him ,because they had nothing to charge him for.The attack was a planned operation by the congrees i mean the butchers.Sant ji was in the Golden Complex so why destory 30/40 gurdawara's in punjab was Sant ji in them too this was a attack to destory the Sikh faith. No press was let into punjab until after the operation the arms that you saw were planted threre after the attack. Even in the program you can see that rat Kuldeep Brar talking and there was still heavy firing going on and the operation and been done. Sant Ji and his soldiers were not in the Golden Temple so why was there over 350 bullet holes there. Bro do not be blinded by these congress people they are liars.
Eye witnesses at the temple will tell you that truck loads of weapons were brought in on 7 June after operation blue star – by the govt. The govt reported less then 500 killed in the White Paper, we now know there were 3000 bodies piled onto trucks. Human Rights groups report more. And Yes What about OPERATION WOODROSE shortly after blue star- can the indian govt explain that. All Amritdhari Sikhs were branded terrorists, many, arrested , tortured and killed by security forces in different parts of Punjab. Why was there hardly any mention of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution which called for a looser federation of states like the US – river waters 75% of which are being diverted to neighbouring states against international law and indian constitution. These all could have been mentioned briefly in 2 mins – i mean how long does it take you to read this paragraph
Where are you coming from – you clearly live in cukoo land!! Firstly your knowledge of Bhindranwala seems very limited and only from what you have been told by pro indian stooges. Bhindranwala was part of a movement that the documentary did not look at which actually went way beyond 1984 – a movement to bring equality to sikhs in a the so called biggest multicultural democracy in the world. This movement comprised of political demands which the Indian govt. did not want to entertain – at this point they could have stopped moving further to bloodshed. I am fed up of people like you banging on about the Golden temple was attacked because Bhindranwala was holed up their – what about 37 other Sikh Gurdwaras which were also attacked at the same time — was Bhindranwala there also!!!! What about the burning of Sikh historical relics and literature 3 days after the attack in the reference library – was that also due to Bhindranwala – what about the innocent sikh pilgrims who had their turbans used to tie their hands and shot in the head in the days after the attack- there is proof of this – was Bhindranwala to blame for that also!!! Answer is the attack was systematically planned to teach the sikhs a lesson once and for all – to keep at bay any Sikh demand for equality, to hush the sikhs and to ensure Punjab remains a aboriginal like state. Bhindranwala basically asked sikhs to stand their ground as for too long Sikhs were being urinated on. He ordered no Hindu;s to be killed, this is a myth in fact Hindu's went to him for protection when their own daughters were abducted by police.Going back to the documentary, it was outlined that he was accused of assisting in the killing of a journalist, of which he openly surrendered himself but was aquitted. The journalist in question was Lala Jagat Narayan who was writing inciting and abusive articles against Sikhs and specifically Guru Govind Singh. Please get a grip – you don't have a clue my man!!
The ninth Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur travelled from Anandpur to Delhi where he gave his head to the rulers. This was to protect his people. That was a true martyr. Bhindrawale, while not wrong in all of his preaching, was wrong to hide in our most holy shrine. He should have given himself up rather than inviting bloodshed within in the Darbar Sahib.
I agree that bhindrawale was a coward to hide in darbar sahib and that he represents the perennially annoying right. However, couldn't he have been dealt with in a more intelligent manner? Operation blue star was evidently a disaster – it killed innocent people and seems to have created more bloody radicals.
Although I agree that JSB was a coward for hiding out in the Golden Temple, I'm curious to know why Indira didn't simply have him assassinated? Or heck, why didn't she send in the police to go an arrest him? Wouldn't that have been the logical thing to do? But nope, she needs to send in an entire army! I know, I know, he had amassed all these arms. But if she tried to make the arrest as public as possible and he refused to go, then I think she would have been totally justified in going into the Golden Temple with an army. Some of the public would probably even have sided with her.
Cowards run away gentlemen they don't fight. No Matter what is your opinion about Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale , he (Jarnail singh Bhindranwale) certainly did give Indian Army a bloody nose , a really blooding nose , that too when he wasn't even trained in army tactics. It is General Kuldeep Brar who had said "when tanks roar, guns fire even the generals pee in their pants" and it is certainly true because it is Gen Brar who has pee-ed in his pants , he (Gen Brar) is hiding in some cantt area and does not want to come in the open.Why? Because Gen Brar is coward.
l can't believe this guy is still revered as sikh, he is a terorist and why was he using the shrine to hole himself up and store weapons, he knew they were coming and using the fact that it was a holy shrine and the fact that pilgrims were still inside for his own selfish gains-he himself is own of the main culprits for all this and yet many sikhs agree with this but wouldn't say so on camera- its the far right of any religion that l despise- l think indira's hands were tied- it was a very difficult decision which people later said she regretted but its a decision l totally understand- the worst of it all for me is the riots afterwards- then the lack of mention of the obvious congress involvement and lack of real justice and how senseless to kill innocent sikhs just because two sikhs killed a PM who they saw as a mother- its just a plain crazy mindset
Harmandir sahib is not only a gurudwara but also a fortress
look at the structure.
not only harmandir sahib, but most of the old gurudware were built to hold a double purpose, 1 for worship, and 2 for protection.
so any1 who says sant jarnail singh ji shouldnt have been there need to stop thinking purely with their heart and look at the facts.
even guru gobind singh ji fought from gurudware.
the government went in at the time they did, of their own initiative.
sant ji didnt send them an invitation to invade harmandir sahib on such a busy day.
and indras hands werent tied only an rss would think that. its politics.. theres never only 1 way to go around an issue.
In that case your saying it was also right for the army to storm the temple- he used people and used the temple and innocent piligrims for his own gains. So he was ok to use sacred ground and use it store weapons and grenades? Some of his shots and grenades l'm sure also his inncoent people as did the armies- mistakes on both sides. AS for the RSS, it was the BJP, Shiv Sena, RSS- far right Hindu organisations which protected sikhs in Maharasthra and Mumbai and prevented riots from happening in that state- whilst the congress- so called secular party- actively encouraged riots in Delhi.
im 1 of the very very few sikhs who doesnt think that the decision to go into harmandir sahib was wrong
but the timing and the amount of force they used was too much
i dont really care what other sikhs think of me for saying that, if its a war, civillians will die. but its up to the army to warn them and to evacuate them from the premesis. but that is something they didnt do
I agree 100% with this post. Who ever thought he was a saint is clearly misleaded. He may have initially stareted out with the right intent, but he managed to scew it up and became a terrorist. There is no one in my eyes left to blame for the amazing Darbar Shaib being runined but Jarnail Singh Bindrawale.
You do not set up your barracks in side a place of worship, you do not being clashes inside either.
He started something he was not prepared, and in the end, thousands of lives were turned upside down. Due to ONE person not wanting to back down and calm a situation.
How can u call js a terrorist. In what definition is he a terroirst? Someone who is proud of his faith, someone how does not tolerate insults on his faith, someone who fights for equal rights and a better life as a sikh in punjab? If thats a terrorist, then I would gladly be one myself. By studying his interviews, he seemed like a sikh to be proud of. He made sikhs unite, stop taking drugs etc. He was not an aggressor, but a defender. I just wish i was there fighting alongside, and making sure i killed more soliders along with Brar.
I think Sikhs are very divided on their views of Bhindrawale, after all it took the Shrimoni Prabanthak Committee until 2003 to offically declare him a martyr. People are afraid to talk openly about this very sensitive issue (as seen in the programme) because they are afraid of the the truth. I am also in the minority of Sikhs (although I think there are more than we think) that disagree with Bhindrawalas militant persona and his actions – particularly hiding in the Golden Temple after being given so many opportunities to surrender and give himself up. What is perhaps most upsetting is that he acheived NOTHING from hiding – instead innocent civilians were caught in the crossfire. In fast after reading so much about him, I am still not sure what he was trying to acheive when he hid in the Golden Temple.
how can you say that. 1st of all at the time of 84 there was some much army and police based at Amritsar they wrere like ants why did they not arrest the sikhs if they were bring arms in. Bhinderanwale was in police custody 6 mths before the attack if he was a threat why not charge him ,because they had nothing to charge him for.The attack was a planned operation by the congrees i mean the butchers.Sant ji was in the Golden Complex so why destory 30/40 gurdawara's in punjab was Sant ji in them too this was a attack to destory the Sikh faith. No press was let into punjab until after the operation the arms that you saw were planted threre after the attack. Even in the program you can see that rat Kuldeep Brar talking and there was still heavy firing going on and the operation and been done. Sant Ji and his soldiers were not in the Golden Temple so why was there over 350 bullet holes there. Bro do not be blinded by these congress people they are liars.
Eye witnesses at the temple will tell you that truck loads of weapons were brought in on 7 June after operation blue star – by the govt. The govt reported less then 500 killed in the White Paper, we now know there were 3000 bodies piled onto trucks. Human Rights groups report more. And Yes What about OPERATION WOODROSE shortly after blue star- can the indian govt explain that. All Amritdhari Sikhs were branded terrorists, many, arrested , tortured and killed by security forces in different parts of Punjab. Why was there hardly any mention of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution which called for a looser federation of states like the US – river waters 75% of which are being diverted to neighbouring states against international law and indian constitution. These all could have been mentioned briefly in 2 mins – i mean how long does it take you to read this paragraph
Where are you coming from – you clearly live in cukoo land!! Firstly your knowledge of Bhindranwala seems very limited and only from what you have been told by pro indian stooges. Bhindranwala was part of a movement that the documentary did not look at which actually went way beyond 1984 – a movement to bring equality to sikhs in a the so called biggest multicultural democracy in the world. This movement comprised of political demands which the Indian govt. did not want to entertain – at this point they could have stopped moving further to bloodshed. I am fed up of people like you banging on about the Golden temple was attacked because Bhindranwala was holed up their – what about 37 other Sikh Gurdwaras which were also attacked at the same time — was Bhindranwala there also!!!! What about the burning of Sikh historical relics and literature 3 days after the attack in the reference library – was that also due to Bhindranwala – what about the innocent sikh pilgrims who had their turbans used to tie their hands and shot in the head in the days after the attack- there is proof of this – was Bhindranwala to blame for that also!!! Answer is the attack was systematically planned to teach the sikhs a lesson once and for all – to keep at bay any Sikh demand for equality, to hush the sikhs and to ensure Punjab remains a aboriginal like state. Bhindranwala basically asked sikhs to stand their ground as for too long Sikhs were being urinated on. He ordered no Hindu;s to be killed, this is a myth in fact Hindu's went to him for protection when their own daughters were abducted by police.Going back to the documentary, it was outlined that he was accused of assisting in the killing of a journalist, of which he openly surrendered himself but was aquitted. The journalist in question was Lala Jagat Narayan who was writing inciting and abusive articles against Sikhs and specifically Guru Govind Singh. Please get a grip – you don't have a clue my man!!
The ninth Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur travelled from Anandpur to Delhi where he gave his head to the rulers. This was to protect his people. That was a true martyr. Bhindrawale, while not wrong in all of his preaching, was wrong to hide in our most holy shrine. He should have given himself up rather than inviting bloodshed within in the Darbar Sahib.
I agree that bhindrawale was a coward to hide in darbar sahib and that he represents the perennially annoying right. However, couldn't he have been dealt with in a more intelligent manner? Operation blue star was evidently a disaster – it killed innocent people and seems to have created more bloody radicals.
Although I agree that JSB was a coward for hiding out in the Golden Temple, I'm curious to know why Indira didn't simply have him assassinated? Or heck, why didn't she send in the police to go an arrest him? Wouldn't that have been the logical thing to do? But nope, she needs to send in an entire army! I know, I know, he had amassed all these arms. But if she tried to make the arrest as public as possible and he refused to go, then I think she would have been totally justified in going into the Golden Temple with an army. Some of the public would probably even have sided with her.
Cowards run away gentlemen they don't fight. No Matter what is your opinion about Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale , he (Jarnail singh Bhindranwale) certainly did give Indian Army a bloody nose , a really blooding nose , that too when he wasn't even trained in army tactics. It is General Kuldeep Brar who had said "when tanks roar, guns fire even the generals pee in their pants" and it is certainly true because it is Gen Brar who has pee-ed in his pants , he (Gen Brar) is hiding in some cantt area and does not want to come in the open.Why? Because Gen Brar is coward.
Yes, the programme missed a lot of information out, but how much can you cram into one hour. Maybe I missed something but I did not see the real issues which started all of this be raised. The amount of murders bindranwala committed before blue star.
Yes, the programme missed a lot of information out, but how much can you cram into one hour. Maybe I missed something but I did not see the real issues which started all of this be raised. The amount of murders bindranwala committed before blue star.
i would like to thank sonia deol for the documentry. it was sonia deol's personal journy to Punjab and about blue star 84. and we all have learnt alot from it.
i would like to thank sonia deol for the documentry. it was sonia deol's personal journy to Punjab and about blue star 84. and we all have learnt alot from it.
The fact that Indian government under Indira Gandhi gave orders to attack Golden Temple in 1984 is an unforgivable and huge mistake made. Indira Gandhi was aware of Golden Temple as the most significant place of worship of the Sikhs and she still authorised an attack which killed so many innocent people. Also I strongly believe that she did not authorise this attack just to get Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. If that was the case then humane ways should have been employed to capture him but obviously no thought was made. I am also hugely disappointed that Kuldeep Singh Brar, who is suppose to be a Sikh himself, actually lead Operation Blue Star. If he was a true Sikh, then he should have resigned or something before committing this sin. What’s more disappointing is that even after the attack, Indira Gandhi did not apologise for the damages caused both physically to Golden Temple and emotionally to the hearts of every true Sikh and their families. Her government should have accepted that they made a big mistake and should have helped the families of the Sikh victims. Obviously none of this happened and no wonder why Sikhs all over the world are angry about the whole situation.
The fact that Indian government under Indira Gandhi gave orders to attack Golden Temple in 1984 is an unforgivable and huge mistake made. Indira Gandhi was aware of Golden Temple as the most significant place of worship of the Sikhs and she still authorised an attack which killed so many innocent people. Also I strongly believe that she did not authorise this attack just to get Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. If that was the case then humane ways should have been employed to capture him but obviously no thought was made. I am also hugely disappointed that Kuldeep Singh Brar, who is suppose to be a Sikh himself, actually lead Operation Blue Star. If he was a true Sikh, then he should have resigned or something before committing this sin. What’s more disappointing is that even after the attack, Indira Gandhi did not apologise for the damages caused both physically to Golden Temple and emotionally to the hearts of every true Sikh and their families. Her government should have accepted that they made a big mistake and should have helped the families of the Sikh victims. Obviously none of this happened and no wonder why Sikhs all over the world are angry about the whole situation.
I thought it was a thoughtful film, maybe light weight but she said that it was a personal journey not a heavy political insight. I thought it was a version of history viewed by a British Indian Sikh and as that it worked and she is a an important member of our diverse community. I am glad it was not hijacked by fundamentalist & insular Sikhs – that was what happened in the Punjab in 1984 and lead to this awful human catastrophe. Well done Sonia.
I thought it was a thoughtful film, maybe light weight but she said that it was a personal journey not a heavy political insight. I thought it was a version of history viewed by a British Indian Sikh and as that it worked and she is a an important member of our diverse community. I am glad it was not hijacked by fundamentalist & insular Sikhs – that was what happened in the Punjab in 1984 and lead to this awful human catastrophe. Well done Sonia.
I think the programme was biased on several issues. I do not blame the presenter because she is of course a Sikh. BIASs No 1. Deol did not cover adequately the real reason why Bhindrawale took armed refuge in the Golden Temple. Bhindrawale thought he could be invincible. BIAS No 2. Deol did not investigate, even after 25 years, what other options were open to the Government. BIAS No 3. Deol Deol failed to explain the similarity between Bhindrawale & Bin Laden…their mirrored views of either a Sikh or Islam State
What the hell? Bin Laden has an Islamic country as his own, Sikhs do not have one. Hindustan does not recognise Sikhs as a religion but as Hindus therefore there was an urge to make a homeland for Sikhs.
Bin Laden killed millions of innocents, but Bhindranwale simply got gunned up as it is the right of every Sikh to carry weopons although now they are merely symbols.
The Indian government could have handled the situation better and then there would have been no need for this stupid army operation.
Brar is a total idiot and so are all his Sikh army soldiers – well infact they are not Sikh then afterall. Anyway, Indra Ghandi getting killed for her actions is not suprising…..
Lets hope this never happens again.
Well said bro, the bbcviewer must be related to Bin Laden, how dare he compare Bindranwale to him.
So, India does not recognise Sikhs as a religion? Course it does. The constitution defines a Hindu in terms of personal law as a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Jain. However, what exactly does this prevent a Sikh from doing? India's acceptance of Sikh customs, including carrying a Kirpan are unrivalled across the world. In it's constiution is this SPECIFIC line: "Explanation I: The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion."
After Punjab was divided under guise of protecting the Punjabi language (it was merely to create a Sikh majority state), what more would a "Khalistan" bring?
Why the hell was Bhindranwala holed up in the Golden Temple? Why couldn't he have brought his fight elsewhere? He is JUST as complicit as Indira Gandhi's government in the deaths of thousands of innocent Sikhs.
Bhindranwala was a fanatic – pure and simple. He was originally brought to the front by Congress, and they, the people of Punjab, and Sikhs across the country paid a huge price.
If India(Hindustani) recognised Sikh religion then the circumstances that took place in 1984 would not have taken place, what the hell you taking about, get to reality. By the way you could not be a Sikh, so don't try it.
By having a differing opinion to you I cannot be a Sikh? Stop being a fool, and open your eyes.
Well said. Whilst I don't think we can make a direct comparrison to Bin Laden, they both share similarities in their intentions which were to radicalise their religion and in turn this has led to fanatacism and extremism.
This kind of behaviour creates even more factions and divides amongst people rather than uniting them, and I think Sikhs already have enough sub sects and castes. A separate state of Khalistan will create nothing but more problems, dividing land on religious grounds is not the way forward nor will it acheive equality which is one of the basic tenets of Sikhism. A state of Khalistan would simply encourage extremism and obliterate other elements of our punjabi culture and heritage including music, dance and having fun.
I think the programme was biased on several issues. I do not blame the presenter because she is of course a Sikh. BIASs No 1. Deol did not cover adequately the real reason why Bhindrawale took armed refuge in the Golden Temple. Bhindrawale thought he could be invincible. BIAS No 2. Deol did not investigate, even after 25 years, what other options were open to the Government. BIAS No 3. Deol Deol failed to explain the similarity between Bhindrawale & Bin Laden…their mirrored views of either a Sikh or Islam State
What the hell? Bin Laden has an Islamic country as his own, Sikhs do not have one. Hindustan does not recognise Sikhs as a religion but as Hindus therefore there was an urge to make a homeland for Sikhs.
Bin Laden killed millions of innocents, but Bhindranwale simply got gunned up as it is the right of every Sikh to carry weopons although now they are merely symbols.
The Indian government could have handled the situation better and then there would have been no need for this stupid army operation.
Brar is a total idiot and so are all his Sikh army soldiers – well infact they are not Sikh then afterall. Anyway, Indra Ghandi getting killed for her actions is not suprising…..
Lets hope this never happens again.
Well said bro, the bbcviewer must be related to Bin Laden, how dare he compare Bindranwale to him.
So, India does not recognise Sikhs as a religion? Course it does. The constitution defines a Hindu in terms of personal law as a Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Jain. However, what exactly does this prevent a Sikh from doing? India's acceptance of Sikh customs, including carrying a Kirpan are unrivalled across the world. In it's constiution is this SPECIFIC line: "Explanation I: The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion."
After Punjab was divided under guise of protecting the Punjabi language (it was merely to create a Sikh majority state), what more would a "Khalistan" bring?
Why the hell was Bhindranwala holed up in the Golden Temple? Why couldn't he have brought his fight elsewhere? He is JUST as complicit as Indira Gandhi's government in the deaths of thousands of innocent Sikhs.
Bhindranwala was a fanatic – pure and simple. He was originally brought to the front by Congress, and they, the people of Punjab, and Sikhs across the country paid a huge price.
If India(Hindustani) recognised Sikh religion then the circumstances that took place in 1984 would not have taken place, what the hell you taking about, get to reality. By the way you could not be a Sikh, so don't try it.
By having a differing opinion to you I cannot be a Sikh? Stop being a fool, and open your eyes.
Well said. Whilst I don't think we can make a direct comparrison to Bin Laden, they both share similarities in their intentions which were to radicalise their religion and in turn this has led to fanatacism and extremism.
This kind of behaviour creates even more factions and divides amongst people rather than uniting them, and I think Sikhs already have enough sub sects and castes. A separate state of Khalistan will create nothing but more problems, dividing land on religious grounds is not the way forward nor will it acheive equality which is one of the basic tenets of Sikhism. A state of Khalistan would simply encourage extremism and obliterate other elements of our punjabi culture and heritage including music, dance and having fun.
My view on the programme:
http://www.saviarora.com/review-bbc-1984-a-sikh-s…
My view on the programme:
http://www.saviarora.com/review-bbc-1984-a-sikh-s…
It was a PERSONAL journey that was sated at the beginning – not YOUR journey or the journey of others. It wasn't a detailed history – it never claimed to be that. IT WAS A PERSPECTIVE. I'm tired of everthing being hijacked by people who wanted something else. A personal perspective, one woman's journey – no less no more. It should be applauded. And I agree a more detailed film is required but we should leave to SIkh historians
It was a PERSONAL journey that was sated at the beginning – not YOUR journey or the journey of others. It wasn't a detailed history – it never claimed to be that. IT WAS A PERSPECTIVE. I'm tired of everthing being hijacked by people who wanted something else. A personal perspective, one woman's journey – no less no more. It should be applauded. And I agree a more detailed film is required but we should leave to SIkh historians
BBCviewer… Bin Laden??? your comparing him to Sant JB?? i think you need to have a look at what Bin Laden has done in the name of his faith as opposed what Sant ji tried to do for our faith which was to awaken us to the truth regarding the Indian state and its intentions to us as race.
Avi, it does not take a rocket scientist to compare the similarity between these two individuals and what they stand for. Why do you call JB a Saint ? when he arms himself to the eyeballs with amunition guns and rocket launchers in the Sikhs holliest shrine ?? Those Sikhs who refer to him as a Saint is like saying a moslem suicide bomber will go to heaven. The Indian Army offered JB and all those in the Golden Temple a means to give up arms and leave the Temple peacefully. It was JB and his militants that forced the Army to take action and release the Temple back to peaceful loving Sikhs.
geezer do work for the indian govt? When did they say come out peacefuly, were u there recording it? Guru Gobind Singh said arm yourself, so dont come with that one, The Govt could have waited for him to come out eventually. But why should he come out anyway? Its his right to go wherever he wants. No matter what circumstance, you do not attack darbar sahib. Would any govt attack Mecca, or the Vatican? i dont think so. So y attack Sikh holy shrines? Because they thought they can get away with it, as Sikhs are a minority. Hope they paid you well u fool.
How are you related to Bin Ladin? Were you in the Golden Temple at the time of the attack? This was a attack on defendless Sikhs by coward Hindus. The Sikhs fight on the battle ground with a sword not like some.
Defenseless sikhs? Why don't you talk about the sikhs who separated hindus on buses and shot at them just for being hindus? What happened to fighting on the battle ground there and in 1984? why did you run like cowards, all the way to canada?
Bhindranwale never fought with his sword or by himself. He was a coward like you. Hiding in a temple with innocent worshippers, just so he can kill them in the cross fire and blame it on Hindus. Who asked him to fire first shots? Only a coward like you and Bhindranwale will hide and fire at people's backs when they're not looking.
Sikhs have little in common with Islam except , beard , turban and One God ( which is also different for the SIKH GOD loves all his children irrespective of his race or relgion ).
I think a more appropriate comparison of Santji would be with :–
1) Battle of Thermopylae :– http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopyla…
0r
2 ) 40 muktas of SIkh history
Just one thing: please stop referring to him as a sant. There is nothing saintly about building an arsenal in darbar sahib. There is nothing saintly about accepting offerings from pilgrims when the guru granth sahib is lying next door – who did he think he was? I'll tell you. He began to think of himself as the righteous saviour – the hallmarks of a radical and potential terrorist.
The gurus said 'scare no one, and fear no one' – bhindrawale was scaring sikhs, and fearing the government. Please don't call him a saint.
Its easy to say what a bad job Sonia has done, at least she has done something. What have any of us/you never done to give justice to those sikhs!
Its easy to say what a bad job Sonia has done, at least she has done something. What have any of us/you never done to give justice to those sikhs!
Personally, I am a little fed-up of the media serving up this kind of melodrama. Why did it have to be a personal journey? Good journalism should be about uncovering the facts in a balanced way and allowing the audience to make up their minds about which side of the fence they are on. I found the reflection a little cringe-worthy and all the harping on about a new found commitment to and understanding of my religion (but not enough to change my name back) a bit shallow. If a man with a msulim name can become president of the USA, surely a sikh name should not get in the way of Asian network presenter's career, or there is something truly wrong.
Personally, I am a little fed-up of the media serving up this kind of melodrama. Why did it have to be a personal journey? Good journalism should be about uncovering the facts in a balanced way and allowing the audience to make up their minds about which side of the fence they are on. I found the reflection a little cringe-worthy and all the harping on about a new found commitment to and understanding of my religion (but not enough to change my name back) a bit shallow. If a man with a msulim name can become president of the USA, surely a sikh name should not get in the way of Asian network presenter's career, or there is something truly wrong.
As for Indira GHandi, she certainly wasn't perfect, but l respect the woman for being a secular and fughting for a united India- she risked her own life in 1947 Delhi by standing in the way of rampaging mobs of hindus and sikhs intent of butchering muslims- she calmed down that situation- she also didn;t sack her bodyguards despite being advised to do so because she stood up for that same principle- her son though did a great disservice to his mother- by making the comment about a mighty tree falling and the ground shakes and standing by and doing nothing whilst Delhi burned- something she would of been dead against and certainly not wanted- the way she went around operation blue star and the politics of the time certainly could of been handled better but l certainly don't believe she had any intent to destroy the sikh faith.
I have also come across some youth in birmingham and southall wearing khalistan t-shirts and spouting anti-hindu views- the fact is all our gurus were hindus in fact we are all hindus before and alot of our faith is from that source- also guru nanak was all about bringing harmony and peace to all religions and living together peacefully- whilst l lived in delhi for 3 years my landlord would often talk about how his hindu neighbours saved him and his family- how he was shifted first from rawlpindi then lahore because of partition riots seeing members of his family senselessly murdered- for him the support for khalistan wasn't there amongst the majority of sikhs- but they were too frightened too stand up and speak- what does that say about JS Bindrawale and his cronies- the fact that off camera many sikhs layed blame at his door and yet wouldn't say on camera- alot of far right sikhs in tie ups with far right hindus these days- whats that all about- for my landlord it wasn't like partition and sikh vs muslim riots-
it wasn't about sikh vs hindu- but politics- the blames lies with JS Bindrawale and Congress esp for the carnage that followed- imagine though if we did have a khalistan- what would happen to the sikhs in haryana, delhi, mumbai, HP, Rajasthan, Uttar pradesh etc and the hindus in Punjab? Its madness to divide land on religious grounds alone and also a great disrespect to our gurus and our faith.
there would be a mass migration in and out of punjab, sikhs would go to punjab and other religions would go out, it would be their own choice
and it is madness, but the world is a mad place
lol she was a politician and a dirty 1
she kept her bodyguards because she thought that would make sikhs forgive her
but sikhs arent that stupid
As for Indira GHandi, she certainly wasn't perfect, but l respect the woman for being a secular and fughting for a united India- she risked her own life in 1947 Delhi by standing in the way of rampaging mobs of hindus and sikhs intent of butchering muslims- she calmed down that situation- she also didn;t sack her bodyguards despite being advised to do so because she stood up for that same principle- her son though did a great disservice to his mother- by making the comment about a mighty tree falling and the ground shakes and standing by and doing nothing whilst Delhi burned- something she would of been dead against and certainly not wanted- the way she went around operation blue star and the politics of the time certainly could of been handled better but l certainly don't believe she had any intent to destroy the sikh faith.
I have also come across some youth in birmingham and southall wearing khalistan t-shirts and spouting anti-hindu views- the fact is all our gurus were hindus in fact we are all hindus before and alot of our faith is from that source- also guru nanak was all about bringing harmony and peace to all religions and living together peacefully- whilst l lived in delhi for 3 years my landlord would often talk about how his hindu neighbours saved him and his family- how he was shifted first from rawlpindi then lahore because of partition riots seeing members of his family senselessly murdered- for him the support for khalistan wasn't there amongst the majority of sikhs- but they were too frightened too stand up and speak- what does that say about JS Bindrawale and his cronies- the fact that off camera many sikhs layed blame at his door and yet wouldn't say on camera- alot of far right sikhs in tie ups with far right hindus these days- whats that all about- for my landlord it wasn't like partition and sikh vs muslim riots-
lol she was a politician and a dirty 1
she kept her bodyguards because she thought that would make sikhs forgive her
but sikhs arent that stupid
it wasn't about sikh vs hindu- but politics- the blames lies with JS Bindrawale and Congress esp for the carnage that followed- imagine though if we did have a khalistan- what would happen to the sikhs in haryana, delhi, mumbai, HP, Rajasthan, Uttar pradesh etc and the hindus in Punjab? Its madness to divide land on religious grounds alone and also a great disrespect to our gurus and our faith.
there would be a mass migration in and out of punjab, sikhs would go to punjab and other religions would go out, it would be their own choice
and it is madness, but the world is a mad place
“1984”– A COCKTAIL EXPLOSIVE OF TEN THEORIES
1)Religious theories :—
a.When ever a new religion becomes manifest on this planet the older religions of the planet deal in this manner; a kind of bullying you see when you are a fresher in a college , Eg :– Jews did atrocities on Jesus and betrayed Muslims . Some time it is the newer religions which are hostile to older religions like Muslims are towards Jews and Christians.
b.Religions are in intrinsically violent systems with their Gods being more like commander in chiefs and their holy text book being like war manuals
c.India was aspiring to be a Hindu nation; and any one not subscribing to this theological view point was to be subdued.
d.Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs slugged it out some thing like the Kauravs and Pandavs or in the western world like catholic and Protestants.
“1984”– A COCKTAIL EXPLOSIVE OF TEN THEORIES
1)Religious theories :—
a.When ever a new religion becomes manifest on this planet the older religions of the planet deal in this manner; a kind of bullying you see when you are a fresher in a college , Eg :– Jews did atrocities on Jesus and betrayed Muslims . Some time it is the newer religions which are hostile to older religions like Muslims are towards Jews and Christians.
b.Religions are in intrinsically violent systems with their Gods being more like commander in chiefs and their holy text book being like war manuals
c.India was aspiring to be a Hindu nation; and any one not subscribing to this theological view point was to be subdued.
d.Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs slugged it out some thing like the Kauravs and Pandavs or in the western world like catholic and Protestants.
9)Quantum theory and 84 :-
I believe that partly1984 period could be understood thru quantum eyes:-
Quantum theory and Man as Creator: —
A case for man as the creator has been fabricated from an analogy to delayed-choice experiments in quantum mechanics. In such experiments it appears that the observer can influence the outcome of quantum mechanical events.
The observer does not give "reality" to the entity, but rather the observer chooses what aspect of the reality he wishes to discern
In other words, the universe produces man, but man through his observations of the universe brings the universe into reality. Here we find a reflection of the question debated in freshmen philosophy classes across the land:
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to see it or hear it, does it really fall?
Quantum 1984 and Sikhs :-
We Sikhs try to live in the images of our GURUS.
Persecutions and anti centre stance was the reality for our GURUS
Recreating it in currant time gives us a sense of reality of being SIKHS.
Conclusions: — So did we create situations like these to get a feel of how life was like at our GURUS time?? .
1984 was not an incidence in isolation in space and time .
It has several causes and until we Sikhs produce thinkers and philosophers all events will be superficially discussed and swept in one hour TV programme.
Books and thesis could have been written on these events .
But alas we never analysed 1947 nor 1984 and we learnt nothing from them ;
I already see signs of a repeat in 2XXX of another similar mess.
We seem to be destiny driven.
Hope fully GOD of liquor and drugs shall save us.
9)Quantum theory and 84 :-
I believe that partly1984 period could be understood thru quantum eyes:-
Quantum theory and Man as Creator: —
A case for man as the creator has been fabricated from an analogy to delayed-choice experiments in quantum mechanics. In such experiments it appears that the observer can influence the outcome of quantum mechanical events.
The observer does not give "reality" to the entity, but rather the observer chooses what aspect of the reality he wishes to discern
In other words, the universe produces man, but man through his observations of the universe brings the universe into reality. Here we find a reflection of the question debated in freshmen philosophy classes across the land:
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to see it or hear it, does it really fall?
Quantum 1984 and Sikhs :-
We Sikhs try to live in the images of our GURUS.
Persecutions and anti centre stance was the reality for our GURUS
Recreating it in currant time gives us a sense of reality of being SIKHS.
Conclusions: — So did we create situations like these to get a feel of how life was like at our GURUS time?? .
1984 was not an incidence in isolation in space and time .
It has several causes and until we Sikhs produce thinkers and philosophers all events will be superficially discussed and swept in one hour TV programme.
Books and thesis could have been written on these events .
But alas we never analysed 1947 nor 1984 and we learnt nothing from them ;
I already see signs of a repeat in 2XXX of another similar mess.
We seem to be destiny driven.
Hope fully GOD of liquor and drugs shall save us.
All these sikh in the world and in the last 30 years have not produce a documentry to really show what happen in 1984 (everyone too busy chasing abit of paper with the queens head on it) and what the real agend is of the GOI. Hopfully one day I will haev the power and the money to do so.
AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All these sikh in the world and in the last 30 years have not produce a documentry to really show what happen in 1984 (everyone too busy chasing abit of paper with the queens head on it) and what the real agend is of the GOI. Hopfully one day I will haev the power and the money to do so.
AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I disagree with the article above, Sonia personal journey was very important because she expresses a point in where a Sikh for the first time feels connected to his/her faith for the first time and others that have had this realisation understand the beautiful and emotional experience. Before we start criticising, (something many in our community are quick to do about some one doing something positive for our faith), She has opened probably the biggest chapter for voicing the events during 1984 in the the last 2 decades. Something which was desperately needed. Maybe she could of asked harder questions to Tully and Brar but many do not realise the documentary had to be censored by both the Indian Government and BBC in order for Sonia to produce. I believe we owe Sonia great praise and hope she continues.
I disagree with the article above, Sonia personal journey was very important because she expresses a point in where a Sikh for the first time feels connected to his/her faith for the first time and others that have had this realisation understand the beautiful and emotional experience. Before we start criticising, (something many in our community are quick to do about some one doing something positive for our faith), She has opened probably the biggest chapter for voicing the events during 1984 in the the last 2 decades. Something which was desperately needed. Maybe she could of asked harder questions to Tully and Brar but many do not realise the documentary had to be censored by both the Indian Government and BBC in order for Sonia to produce. I believe we owe Sonia great praise and hope she continues.
I REPEAT: It was a TV episode – get on with it, get a life and start thinking about what compassion and tolerance means – we Sikhs are not with out our faults (selling fags and booze in our shops). Let it go and look forward to a mutual future
It was a PERSONAL journey that was sated at the beginning – not YOUR journey or the journey of others. It wasn't a detailed history – it never claimed to be that. IT WAS A PERSPECTIVE. I'm tired of everthing being hijacked by people who wanted something else. A personal perspective, one woman's journey – no less no more. It should be applauded. And I agree a more detailed film is required but we should leave to SIkh historians
The contents of your message are self eveidence that you are not a Singh or a Sikh.
I REPEAT: It was a TV episode – get on with it, get a life and start thinking about what compassion and tolerance means – we Sikhs are not with out our faults (selling fags and booze in our shops). Let it go and look forward to a mutual future
It was a PERSONAL journey that was sated at the beginning – not YOUR journey or the journey of others. It wasn't a detailed history – it never claimed to be that. IT WAS A PERSPECTIVE. I'm tired of everthing being hijacked by people who wanted something else. A personal perspective, one woman's journey – no less no more. It should be applauded. And I agree a more detailed film is required but we should leave to SIkh historians
The contents of your message are self eveidence that you are not a Singh or a Sikh.
I agree with Narinder, at least something has come out of it, hopfully now it will help people open there eye abit and someone some where can produce something abit more indepth, I wish Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu all the best and a fantasic effort. People should read about KPS Gill and these so called sikh that Killed there "own people".
We should do a website maybe have a building something with the names of all the people killed in 1984. We need to do soemthing for them.
List of all the ministers, police officers etc all the people who help bring on blue star house address familes etc see how they feel when they are listed on the web. I am sure people will come forward.
I agree with Narinder, at least something has come out of it, hopfully now it will help people open there eye abit and someone some where can produce something abit more indepth, I wish Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu all the best and a fantasic effort. People should read about KPS Gill and these so called sikh that Killed there "own people".
We should do a website maybe have a building something with the names of all the people killed in 1984. We need to do soemthing for them.
List of all the ministers, police officers etc all the people who help bring on blue star house address familes etc see how they feel when they are listed on the web. I am sure people will come forward.
To those justifying this documentary from the 'Personal Journey' angle, I'm afraid I don't buy it.
Such a 'Journey', were it genuine, would have involved more than accepting what in effect was the GoI line on events, both for June 1984 and November 1984. It would certainly have been difficult to ignore the competing narratives from organisations such as Amnesty or HRW, amongst others Independent sources – and that's not even thinking about Sikh organisations who have documented both events.
The facts are that this documentary was researched remotely in the UK by BBC researchers, and the on-location interviews were pre-secured by the Location Producers, who were working under the guidance of the GoI. If we're using clichés, then it's probably more apt to describe Sonia Deol's experience as a 'Guided Tour', provided by the GoI. If I'm going on Vacation, and I want a quick introduction to a city, without wanting to expend any effort meeting the locals and finding out where the real action is – I take a Guided Tour. My Tour Guide tells me what he wants me to know, and glosses over the rest – that's pretty much what happened here.
I watched Sonia Deol and Tommy Nagra as guests on Sikh Channel on the day before the documentary was screened, and everyone including the presenter was congratulating them – I thought finally the truth will be shown – but was suspicious as Tommy and Sonia both re-iterated several times that this was not a investigative documentary and also the fact that both of them were saying 25 years on, lets not dwell too much on 1984 it's time to move on – this was after a clip was shown where Sonia interviewed one of the Sikh widows who had recently received compensation from the Govt. So lets just get this into perspective – 25 years on and she just go her compensation – what a disgrace – it took the so called largest democracy in the world 25 years to pay compensation to a victim of ethnic cleansing not riots as the documentary highlighted, and both of them were talking about moving on – also nothing about thousands Sikh of youths post 1984 picked up by police etc. and their tortured and some cases no bodies returned to families. And I agree with other reviews no background was highlighted to how the movement came about that Sant Bhindranwala was a part of.
To those justifying this documentary from the 'Personal Journey' angle, I'm afraid I don't buy it.
Such a 'Journey', were it genuine, would have involved more than accepting what in effect was the GoI line on events, both for June 1984 and November 1984. It would certainly have been difficult to ignore the competing narratives from organisations such as Amnesty or HRW, amongst others Independent sources – and that's not even thinking about Sikh organisations who have documented both events.
The facts are that this documentary was researched remotely in the UK by BBC researchers, and the on-location interviews were pre-secured by the Location Producers, who were working under the guidance of the GoI. If we're using clichés, then it's probably more apt to describe Sonia Deol's experience as a 'Guided Tour', provided by the GoI. If I'm going on Vacation, and I want a quick introduction to a city, without wanting to expend any effort meeting the locals and finding out where the real action is – I take a Guided Tour. My Tour Guide tells me what he wants me to know, and glosses over the rest – that's pretty much what happened here.
I watched Sonia Deol and Tommy Nagra as guests on Sikh Channel on the day before the documentary was screened, and everyone including the presenter was congratulating them – I thought finally the truth will be shown – but was suspicious as Tommy and Sonia both re-iterated several times that this was not a investigative documentary and also the fact that both of them were saying 25 years on, lets not dwell too much on 1984 it's time to move on – this was after a clip was shown where Sonia interviewed one of the Sikh widows who had recently received compensation from the Govt. So lets just get this into perspective – 25 years on and she just go her compensation – what a disgrace – it took the so called largest democracy in the world 25 years to pay compensation to a victim of ethnic cleansing not riots as the documentary highlighted, and both of them were talking about moving on – also nothing about thousands Sikh of youths post 1984 picked up by police etc. and their tortured and some cases no bodies returned to families. And I agree with other reviews no background was highlighted to how the movement came about that Sant Bhindranwala was a part of.
To all those innocent people who lost their lives, their famalies and their friends in 1984 – may they rest in peace. What an emotional and inspirational programme it was, with the time constraint it was difficult to go in too much depth but i must say after watching this programme it makes me proud to know that people fought with such courage, bravery and determination for their religion. And i am proud to be a Sikh!!! Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh.
xxxxx
To all those innocent people who lost their lives, their famalies and their friends in 1984 – may they rest in peace. What an emotional and inspirational programme it was, with the time constraint it was difficult to go in too much depth but i must say after watching this programme it makes me proud to know that people fought with such courage, bravery and determination for their religion. And i am proud to be a Sikh!!! Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh.
xxxxx
the real terrorists r hindu organisations like shiv sena, bajrang dal, hindu parishad and their mother rss.
the indian government looted the water, power and regional resources of panjab.
wat happened in 1978 was reason that led outrage among sikhs against government. indira actually wanted to use bhai jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindranwale for her political issues but when she got failed she started portray him as a terrorists. bhi jarnail singh ji stood up against the tyranny and thats irked the hindu government most.
to prove their act right they concocted several fake allegations against sikh kharkoos as like there was abundance of weapons and most importantly womens were kidnapped at there, such were the stupid allegations that shows the government fallen conscience in hiding their tyranny.
i show my respect to sant jarnail singh ji who sacrificed his life for the sikh rights.
the real terrorists r hindu organisations like shiv sena, bajrang dal, hindu parishad and their mother rss.
the indian government looted the water, power and regional resources of panjab.
wat happened in 1978 was reason that led outrage among sikhs against government. indira actually wanted to use bhai jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindranwale for her political issues but when she got failed she started portray him as a terrorists. bhi jarnail singh ji stood up against the tyranny and thats irked the hindu government most.
to prove their act right they concocted several fake allegations against sikh kharkoos as like there was abundance of weapons and most importantly womens were kidnapped at there, such were the stupid allegations that shows the government fallen conscience in hiding their tyranny.
i show my respect to sant jarnail singh ji who sacrificed his life for the sikh rights.
Hindus are cowards they attacked on the defendless families and children. If they have the courage they should have challenged the Sikhs on a battlefield. Nor matter Sikhs being outnumbered.
From Khalsa
its not fair to label all Hindus. its the guys in north india that killed sikhs,the rest of india wasnt even involved, my family are from gujarat, nobody was involved in any trouble with sikhs in them parts, to be fair, before my parents came to uk in 1970's, they had never seen a sikh, im sick of sikhs labelling all hindus, cus of the indian government and a few idiots in north india
I understand where you comimg from, but you must remember the sikh guru's gave their lives for the Hindu's religion and if it was not for the Sikhs then now probably there would be no Hindus worldwide. How could the Hindu's even think of attacking Sikhs and their place of worship, we ment to be like brothers. The Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the master of the mighty Sikhs and with their blessing todate in the name of god we can take on the whole world on a battlefield with our swords. We were outnumbered by the Muslims and we still had a victory and we can achieve the same now. If anybody wants a battle then they need to enter the battlefied like a man, not cowards attacking the defendless families in their homes. Even the lord Krishna, Shanker, kali Ma and all other including Jesus would agree with me. I hope you understand brother, attack on Golden Temple is just the same as attacking Hindu Gods. Khalastany.
Khalsa- Why are you using word Hindu like a idiot without knowing anything.. i bet you wouldn't even know that Gurunanak dev ji was born in a Hindu family , so if Sikh religion has taken birth from HInduism how does it make HIndus bad or coward..
I have heard this phrase tht all sikh gurus were hindus and all that …… thats logically wrong … tho guru nanak devji was born in hindu family …. he disregarded all hindu methodologies, rituals and entire hindu religion and created his own set of principles which later refered basics of sikhism …. get ur facts right …..
Why is the word ‘hindu’ used as a cuss word?
Hindus are cowards they attacked on the defendless families and children. If they have the courage they should have challenged the Sikhs on a battlefield. Nor matter Sikhs being outnumbered.
From Khalsa
its not fair to label all Hindus. its the guys in north india that killed sikhs,the rest of india wasnt even involved, my family are from gujarat, nobody was involved in any trouble with sikhs in them parts, to be fair, before my parents came to uk in 1970's, they had never seen a sikh, im sick of sikhs labelling all hindus, cus of the indian government and a few idiots in north india
I understand where you comimg from, but you must remember the sikh guru's gave their lives for the Hindu's religion and if it was not for the Sikhs then now probably there would be no Hindus worldwide. How could the Hindu's even think of attacking Sikhs and their place of worship, we ment to be like brothers. The Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the master of the mighty Sikhs and with their blessing todate in the name of god we can take on the whole world on a battlefield with our swords. We were outnumbered by the Muslims and we still had a victory and we can achieve the same now. If anybody wants a battle then they need to enter the battlefied like a man, not cowards attacking the defendless families in their homes. Even the lord Krishna, Shanker, kali Ma and all other including Jesus would agree with me. I hope you understand brother, attack on Golden Temple is just the same as attacking Hindu Gods. Khalastany.
Khalsa- Why are you using word Hindu like a idiot without knowing anything.. i bet you wouldn't even know that Gurunanak dev ji was born in a Hindu family , so if Sikh religion has taken birth from HInduism how does it make HIndus bad or coward..
I have heard this phrase tht all sikh gurus were hindus and all that …… thats logically wrong … tho guru nanak devji was born in hindu family …. he disregarded all hindu methodologies, rituals and entire hindu religion and created his own set of principles which later refered basics of sikhism …. get ur facts right …..
Why is the word 'hindu' used as a cuss word?
Well said Khalsa, cowards them Hindu's, i bet none of them were bought to justice….
Steveo- Remember Gurunanakdevji was born in a Hindu family..dont forget your roots my friend..
For your kind information Golden temple is also called Harimanar Sahab. Hari means lord Krishna and Mandir means temple..
So, update your knowledge before writing anything…
Guru Nanak Dev Ji were born in a Hindu family and that's was all sunshine, they accepted Sikhism because Hinduism discriminated and the teachings were wrong. The Golden Temple in called Hari- Mandir sahaib you are correct and this is because Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs all contrubuted to the temple, it only holds a Madir name due to respect, but is a Gurudwara, it contains gurugranth Sahib and only teaches Guru's teachings and Gurbani. The temple contains nothing that relates to Hinduism apart from the name.
Khalsa- you said that the hinduism discriminated when Gurunanakdevji was born but descriminated against whom ??as Sikhism didn't even exist at that time.
Secondly you said that its called Harimandir sahib because all religion contributed to make the Golden temple and it only teaches Gurugranth Sahib then how come in several times Hari name is mentioned in Guru's teachings ..R u sure Guru's teachings were not inspired by Bhagwad gita.
Thirdly, Gurudwaras may not have anything to do with Hinduism but lot of Hindus temple do have Gurunanakdevji pictures in their temples and thats worshiped with the same respect as Lord Krishna . In my home temple i have got picture of Gurunanak devji.But let me tell you one hing by keeping Bhindrawales picture along side gurus picture. you are insulting sikhism.
Below you have written Raj karega khalsa baki rahe na koi..what a ridiculous statement to make..it seems like you only know the histoy of your religion and now you make your own interpretations out of it.
it's the truth son. You say for yourself Sikh mention Hari in their gurubani etc, is this why the Hindus attacked the Sikhs in a barbaric way. They had no respect. Sikhs would love to live together with the Hindus and i personaly also would like that, but the 1984 attack has made us very uncomfortable. You would feel the same if your family was brutaly killed. By the way Guru ji's teaching were inspired by geeta and Islam. The Sikhs respect all religions and teach others to do the same. Sikh means learn, and we all are learning something new every day, just like you learnt from me today.
Khalsa- you wrote Hindus attacked Sikhs ? see thats where you need to learn something from me today because Sikh means learn so listen carefully now. It was few people decision to attack Harimandir Sahib or few hooligans caused riots in 1984 , which i fully admit was unacceptable but now by saying that Hindus attacked Sikhs you are blaming the whole religion which is also unacceptable because you yourself has said that you do respect other religions especially when GuruGranth Sahib was inspired by Geetha. Apply a simple logic ..if Gurus teachings are inspired by HIndu religion then how can the whole religion be bad?Secondly , How easily you wrote that you would feel the same if your family was brutally killed. so let me tell you i have got relatives killed by Bhindrawale people , otherwise they were asking for ransome money.Firstly, if all Sikhs in the world would not unite on the question whether Bhindrawale was a Saint or Terrorist .. this would be a burning issue forever?In my mind i have got no doubts he was a terrorist and as always i would repeat once again that by Putting Bhindrawales picture next to Gurunanakdevji you are desgracing your own religion….
Well analysed Steveo, shows your Sikh intellect against Hindus ??
The best fighting force in the World are Hindu's …THE GURKHAS..and they live in the only Hindu State in the World and also in West Bengal, India. For your information, Nepal has never been invaded or ruled by any other country or race. These brave Hindu Soldiers are praised by every army in the world and still recruited by the British, Indian and other nations.
There is a saying in the British Army…..'ANYONE WHO IS NOT AFRAID OF DYING IS EITHER A LIAR OR A GHURKHA'….
If Hindus could protect themselfs then there would be no Khalsa. The only might and the ultimate force in the whole universe is Babar Khalsa. Even the American soilders have recognised this and have converted to Sikhism at there own wish. Rag karega Khalsa akri rahaye na koi.
And futher more we are taking about saint Soliders not the army, if you want to talk about the army, then go and look on the Kashmir border, the lion Singh's are guarding Hindustan. Have you heard of Commander Jagjit Singh Nelwa.
Well said Khalsa, cowards them Hindu's, i bet none of them were bought to justice….
Steveo- Remember Gurunanakdevji was born in a Hindu family..dont forget your roots my friend..
For your kind information Golden temple is also called Harimanar Sahab. Hari means lord Krishna and Mandir means temple..
So, update your knowledge before writing anything…
Guru Nanak Dev Ji were born in a Hindu family and that's was all sunshine, they accepted Sikhism because Hinduism discriminated and the teachings were wrong. The Golden Temple in called Hari- Mandir sahaib you are correct and this is because Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs all contrubuted to the temple, it only holds a Madir name due to respect, but is a Gurudwara, it contains gurugranth Sahib and only teaches Guru's teachings and Gurbani. The temple contains nothing that relates to Hinduism apart from the name.
Khalsa- you said that the hinduism discriminated when Gurunanakdevji was born but descriminated against whom ??as Sikhism didn't even exist at that time.
Secondly you said that its called Harimandir sahib because all religion contributed to make the Golden temple and it only teaches Gurugranth Sahib then how come in several times Hari name is mentioned in Guru's teachings ..R u sure Guru's teachings were not inspired by Bhagwad gita.
Thirdly, Gurudwaras may not have anything to do with Hinduism but lot of Hindus temple do have Gurunanakdevji pictures in their temples and thats worshiped with the same respect as Lord Krishna . In my home temple i have got picture of Gurunanak devji.But let me tell you one hing by keeping Bhindrawales picture along side gurus picture. you are insulting sikhism.
Below you have written Raj karega khalsa baki rahe na koi..what a ridiculous statement to make..it seems like you only know the histoy of your religion and now you make your own interpretations out of it.
it's the truth son. You say for yourself Sikh mention Hari in their gurubani etc, is this why the Hindus attacked the Sikhs in a barbaric way. They had no respect. Sikhs would love to live together with the Hindus and i personaly also would like that, but the 1984 attack has made us very uncomfortable. You would feel the same if your family was brutaly killed. By the way Guru ji's teaching were inspired by geeta and Islam. The Sikhs respect all religions and teach others to do the same. Sikh means learn, and we all are learning something new every day, just like you learnt from me today.
Khalsa- you wrote Hindus attacked Sikhs ? see thats where you need to learn something from me today because Sikh means learn so listen carefully now. It was few people decision to attack Harimandir Sahib or few hooligans caused riots in 1984 , which i fully admit was unacceptable but now by saying that Hindus attacked Sikhs you are blaming the whole religion which is also unacceptable because you yourself has said that you do respect other religions especially when GuruGranth Sahib was inspired by Geetha. Apply a simple logic ..if Gurus teachings are inspired by HIndu religion then how can the whole religion be bad?Secondly , How easily you wrote that you would feel the same if your family was brutally killed. so let me tell you i have got relatives killed by Bhindrawale people , otherwise they were asking for ransome money.Firstly, if all Sikhs in the world would not unite on the question whether Bhindrawale was a Saint or Terrorist .. this would be a burning issue forever?In my mind i have got no doubts he was a terrorist and as always i would repeat once again that by Putting Bhindrawales picture next to Gurunanakdevji you are desgracing your own religion….
Well analysed Steveo, shows your Sikh intellect against Hindus ??
The best fighting force in the World are Hindu's …THE GURKHAS..and they live in the only Hindu State in the World and also in West Bengal, India. For your information, Nepal has never been invaded or ruled by any other country or race. These brave Hindu Soldiers are praised by every army in the world and still recruited by the British, Indian and other nations.
There is a saying in the British Army…..'ANYONE WHO IS NOT AFRAID OF DYING IS EITHER A LIAR OR A GHURKHA'….
If Hindus could protect themselfs then there would be no Khalsa. The only might and the ultimate force in the whole universe is Babar Khalsa. Even the American soilders have recognised this and have converted to Sikhism at there own wish. Rag karega Khalsa akri rahaye na koi.
And futher more we are taking about saint Soliders not the army, if you want to talk about the army, then go and look on the Kashmir border, the lion Singh's are guarding Hindustan. Have you heard of Commander Jagjit Singh Nelwa.
i agree the documentary was weak and left alot of unanswered questions. But at least it as encouraged me to look into the real issues for myself. What upsets me is that when i asked a hindu friend (from India) about his opinion of Indra Gandhi he had high praise for her and said she was the mother of India. I was shocked that hindu's have no awareness of the what happened and believed all the propoganda that was fed to them.
Tony Blaire decided to go to war to find weapons of mass destruction, when it turned out there were none he was removed. He made a wrong decision and paid the price. Why is it that India cannot face facts and accept that the Gandhi family are not saints, they have caused much suffering. Why not allow a documentary like this be shown in India today. 25 years on, how much has really changed..
i agree the documentary was weak and left alot of unanswered questions. But at least it as encouraged me to look into the real issues for myself. What upsets me is that when i asked a hindu friend (from India) about his opinion of Indra Gandhi he had high praise for her and said she was the mother of India. I was shocked that hindu's have no awareness of the what happened and believed all the propoganda that was fed to them.
Tony Blaire decided to go to war to find weapons of mass destruction, when it turned out there were none he was removed. He made a wrong decision and paid the price. Why is it that India cannot face facts and accept that the Gandhi family are not saints, they have caused much suffering. Why not allow a documentary like this be shown in India today. 25 years on, how much has really changed..