Mumbai Attacks: Terrorism has no Religion
The terrorist attacks in Mumbai — which consisted of blasts in at least seven sites and which apparently targeted Westerners — have, as of this writing, claimed over 110 lives and injured a minimum of 300. Terrorism on this scale has the tendency to engender very common, basic reactions: fear of another attack, concern for those who are at or near the location(s) of the attacks, care for friends or family who may have loved ones affected, disbelief that one set of humans can do this to other humans, and an interest in why the terrorists did what they did. All these elements were present in the wake of 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings, and I believe have been resurrected again with the Mumbai attacks.
There is another aspect of a response to mass terrorism that I’d like to discuss in this post: the inclination to unfavorably treat those who share characteristics with or bear resemblance to the terrorists. Following 9/11 and 7/7, Muslims and those perceived to be Muslim were subject to a pervasive and violent backlash. (As we reported earlier this week, Sikhs in America have been profiled in the airport setting.) Accordingly, with news accounts suggesting that the Mumbai terrorists are Muslim, some are worried that Muslims in India may face a wave of public and/or private harassment and discrimination. For example, a colleague who heads a major civil rights organization in America expressed that he was “praying for victims of [the] Mumbai attack[s] and for Muslims in India.”
It should not have to be this way.
In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings in London, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, a Sikh, declared:
I do believe that terrorism has no religion, terrorists have no religion and that they are a friend of no religion. No religion in the world preaches atrocities against innocent men, women and children[.] [Link]
He said, similarly, after a terrorist plot in England was foiled, that:
A terrorist is a terrorist and has no religion or community. [Link]
In order to assuage the possibility that Muslims in India will be subject to a backlash, such comments should be repeated by the Indian leadership and others on the world stage. These statements may not, alone, prevent a backlash, but they may help reorient the people’s emotions to more productive and constructive efforts; and they will indicate that, if the people direct their anger towards Muslims, they are doing so on their own accord, not with the government’s command or approval. (The Indian has, in its past, been rightfully criticized for coordinating and condoning violence against religious minorities — this tradition should end here with the Mumbai blasts.)
More fundamentally, Dr Singh’s comments reflect a view of terrorism that all of us should embrace, namely that terrorists should not be considered members of any religious group or of any human particular community, but should be identified solely as terrorists, even if the terrorists themselves invoke religion or regional policy as a justification for their acts. In committing the acts, the terrorists have severed their legitimate relationship with religion and with any recognized sovereign.
Accordingly, terrorists are terrorists — they are not “Muslim extremists” or “Islamic fundamentalists.” The media, however, has consistently portrayed members of al-Qaeda and other terrorists as “Muslims.” Indeed, yesterday’s front page of The Washington Post noted that the terrorists may be “Muslim extremists.”
While such terminology may be useful for identification purposes, it has the very dangerous effect of conflating “Muslims” with “extremism.” Accordingly, these terms permit the ordinary public to draw a connection between Muslims and terrorism, and thereby endanger all Muslims by making them a proper target for rage, anger, and suspicion.
A solution would be to identify terrorists as terrorists — this would not only deny them the religious or nationalistic cover and legitimacy they believe they have, but would also shield millions of innocent members of the Muslim faith from violence, discrimination, and harassment.
A reporter, for example, should say that the “terrorists have invoked an interpretation of Islam to justify their actions” or that the “terrorists are reacting to Indian policy that they consider to be harmful to Muslims.” Such descriptions are accurate, but do not run the attendant risk of suggesting that the universe of terrorists extends to all Muslims. The mere separation of words in a sentence — from “Muslim extremists” to “terrorists invoking an interpretation of Muslim” — renders it less likely that the public will tie terrorism with all Muslims.
My thoughts, too, are with Muslims in India. My hope, more generally, is that we collectively recognize that terrorists are terrorists, undeserving of the very religious or national identity that undergirds their conduct.
124 Responses to “Mumbai Attacks: Terrorism has no Religion”
Yes. Catholics :: On the 26 May 2008 the Real IRA left an incendiary device in JJB Sports in Belfast. The device partially exploded during the night causing some damage to the store. There were no injuries. The intent, however, was to cause massive, indescriminate casualties.
Yes. Jews :: In 2006 Israel cluster bombed civilians in Southern Lebanon. To this day, cluster bombs are still killing and maiming people in south Lebanon, a hilly region of towns and farming villages where nearly all the land is used for crops or grazing (i.e. massive, indescriminate casualties.
Yes. Catholics :: On the 26 May 2008 the Real IRA left an incendiary device in JJB Sports in Belfast. The device partially exploded during the night causing some damage to the store. There were no injuries. The intent, however, was to cause massive, indescriminate casualties.
Yes. Jews :: In 2006 Israel cluster bombed civilians in Southern Lebanon. To this day, cluster bombs are still killing and maiming people in south Lebanon, a hilly region of towns and farming villages where nearly all the land is used for crops or grazing (i.e. massive, indescriminate casualties.
Heather,
Yes, there have been numerous high-profile terrorist attacks in the past 10 years. "High profile" is just a description regarding how it is portrayed, rather than what actually exists. Jewish fundamentalists have ran into mosques with automatic weapons blazing. Regardless of religion, even, consider politics. Jihadis and mujahadin, by definition, are holy warriors. However, is there a political aspect to their rampages? Could the politics that oppress peoples that tend to be of their religion (Islam), be influencing their decisions to cause violence? The occupations of Palestine and Iraq being major on the political scale. I'm not trying to justify attacks, at all. I'm just trying to understand them.
And follow with me, that perhaps politics are a partial motive for fundamentalist Islamic terrorism… think about whether we've seen political or social statements made through terrorism?? YES. Oklahoma City and the Unabomber.
Even if it weren't political or social, Catholics have incited terrorism and war throughout the ages. From Crusades (which left major marks on the Middle Eastern psyche) to Ireland. Read Eric's post above mine, and consider the repercussions
Excellent points, but I have difficulty imagining an athiest becoming a suicide bomber.
Heather,
Yes, there have been numerous high-profile terrorist attacks in the past 10 years. “High profile” is just a description regarding how it is portrayed, rather than what actually exists. Jewish fundamentalists have ran into mosques with automatic weapons blazing. Regardless of religion, even, consider politics. Jihadis and mujahadin, by definition, are holy warriors. However, is there a political aspect to their rampages? Could the politics that oppress peoples that tend to be of their religion (Islam), be influencing their decisions to cause violence? The occupations of Palestine and Iraq being major on the political scale. I’m not trying to justify attacks, at all. I’m just trying to understand them.
And follow with me, that perhaps politics are a partial motive for fundamentalist Islamic terrorism… think about whether we’ve seen political or social statements made through terrorism?? YES. Oklahoma City and the Unabomber.
Even if it weren’t political or social, Catholics have incited terrorism and war throughout the ages. From Crusades (which left major marks on the Middle Eastern psyche) to Ireland. Read Eric’s post above mine, and consider the repercussions
Excellent points, but I have difficulty imagining an athiest becoming a suicide bomber.
I hear these arguments as if Islam is the only religion to ever have done this. Throughout the centuries and millenia, other notable religions have preached and engaged in warfare to spread their religion. Those were the days when religion controlled the masses.
If you want to take up the argument that Crusades, pogroms, Holocausts, and genocides were centuries ago, besides needing to open your eyes and ears, you may want to consider the separation of church and state in modern nations. Though we banter about them being independent, many modern nations, "under God," "in God we trust," wage warfare with plenty of religious tinges to it. And I'm pretty much talking about damn near every major religion, besides Islam. (If I were to talk about Islam, the argument would get very complex, because it has to be- even though most analyses are too basic and overarching to actually be correct.)
But could this be what is seen from across the world? Could there be Muslims writing on their internet forums that "The Western World needs to clean themselves up, if they don't all want to be painted with the same brush."
I hear these arguments as if Islam is the only religion to ever have done this. Throughout the centuries and millenia, other notable religions have preached and engaged in warfare to spread their religion. Those were the days when religion controlled the masses.
If you want to take up the argument that Crusades, pogroms, Holocausts, and genocides were centuries ago, besides needing to open your eyes and ears, you may want to consider the separation of church and state in modern nations. Though we banter about them being independent, many modern nations, “under God,” “in God we trust,” wage warfare with plenty of religious tinges to it. And I’m pretty much talking about damn near every major religion, besides Islam. (If I were to talk about Islam, the argument would get very complex, because it has to be- even though most analyses are too basic and overarching to actually be correct.)
But could this be what is seen from across the world? Could there be Muslims writing on their internet forums that “The Western World needs to clean themselves up, if they don’t all want to be painted with the same brush.”
Terrorism has different faces. It's all a matter of numbers and visibility, and who's in charge of authoring the history books at the time.India has been a target of terrorism for several decades and right now it's big news since tourists and westerners were targeted. Also, take Africa, where there's been genocide in many countries.
Also, it's economics…someone behind the scenes always gains from this, except for the pathetic SOB's who bought into the rhetoric and brainwashing…
I'm not sure if these "behind the scenes" guys are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh etc…these are the real culprits…in the meantime, we can profile each other all we like…we are just feeding the frenzy of hatred..and that's what these devious backseat drivers want…c'mon, let's all grow up already!
Terrorism has different faces. It’s all a matter of numbers and visibility, and who’s in charge of authoring the history books at the time.India has been a target of terrorism for several decades and right now it’s big news since tourists and westerners were targeted. Also, take Africa, where there’s been genocide in many countries.
Also, it’s economics…someone behind the scenes always gains from this, except for the pathetic SOB’s who bought into the rhetoric and brainwashing…
I’m not sure if these “behind the scenes” guys are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh etc…these are the real culprits…in the meantime, we can profile each other all we like…we are just feeding the frenzy of hatred..and that’s what these devious backseat drivers want…c’mon, let’s all grow up already!
[quote comment="9181"]Open your eyes, look at what they did in Mumbai, there is no reason you should even try to defend ANY muslim. Have you heard from any muslim community that has come out and condemned the attacks in Mumbai? Nope.
To cling to the ideal that 'Terrorism has no religion' is simply a mantra that will continue to encourage muslim terrorists to go on with their attacks. The world needs to WAKE UP and stand up as one against muslims and make it known that their religion is one of hate, violence and has no place in modern society. I am not afraid to say it, nor should you be.
How long will you keep turning your backs while reports of terrorism continue on a daily basis? How long will these preachers of hate and violence continue to lie to the world and say 'oh, Islam is the religion of peace!' while they do not stand up to the terrorists that are causing the problems and making the world hate their religion.
The day the so called 'good' muslims stand up and say 'no' to terrorists who kill ANYONE in their name, is the day I will stop singing this song. Why do the so called 'good' muslims never come out and condemn terrorism? Why, if they are so good do they not stop them? Because they are all of one mind, they enjoy death and destruction. No peace, down with Islam.[/quote]
CAIR Condemns Mumbai Attacks
Muslim civil rights group demands that hostages be ‘released immediately and unconditionally’
(WASHINGTON, D.C., 11/27/08) – A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today condemned attacks on a number of sites in the Indian financial capital of Mumbai that left at least 100 people dead and many more injured.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) also called for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages taken during the attacks. Witnesses say the attackers sought out American and British citizens.
SEE: Dozens Die in Mumbai Attacks (Washington Post)
In a statement, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad said:
“We condemn these cowardly attacks and demand that all hostages taken by the attackers be released immediately and unconditionally. We offer sincere condolences to the loved ones of those killed or injured in these senseless and inexcusable acts of violence against innocent civilians. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens of all faiths in repudiating acts of terror wherever they take place and whomever they target.”
SEE: CAIR’s Anti-Terrorism Campaigns
The Washington-based group also asked the Indian government to protect all its citizens from the type of retaliatory attacks that have taken place following similar incidents in the recent past
[quote comment=”9181″]Open your eyes, look at what they did in Mumbai, there is no reason you should even try to defend ANY muslim. Have you heard from any muslim community that has come out and condemned the attacks in Mumbai? Nope.
To cling to the ideal that ‘Terrorism has no religion’ is simply a mantra that will continue to encourage muslim terrorists to go on with their attacks. The world needs to WAKE UP and stand up as one against muslims and make it known that their religion is one of hate, violence and has no place in modern society. I am not afraid to say it, nor should you be.
How long will you keep turning your backs while reports of terrorism continue on a daily basis? How long will these preachers of hate and violence continue to lie to the world and say ‘oh, Islam is the religion of peace!’ while they do not stand up to the terrorists that are causing the problems and making the world hate their religion.
The day the so called ‘good’ muslims stand up and say ‘no’ to terrorists who kill ANYONE in their name, is the day I will stop singing this song. Why do the so called ‘good’ muslims never come out and condemn terrorism? Why, if they are so good do they not stop them? Because they are all of one mind, they enjoy death and destruction. No peace, down with Islam.[/quote]
CAIR Condemns Mumbai Attacks
Muslim civil rights group demands that hostages be ‘released immediately and unconditionally’
(WASHINGTON, D.C., 11/27/08) – A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today condemned attacks on a number of sites in the Indian financial capital of Mumbai that left at least 100 people dead and many more injured.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) also called for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages taken during the attacks. Witnesses say the attackers sought out American and British citizens.
SEE: Dozens Die in Mumbai Attacks (Washington Post)
In a statement, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad said:
“We condemn these cowardly attacks and demand that all hostages taken by the attackers be released immediately and unconditionally. We offer sincere condolences to the loved ones of those killed or injured in these senseless and inexcusable acts of violence against innocent civilians. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens of all faiths in repudiating acts of terror wherever they take place and whomever they target.”
SEE: CAIR’s Anti-Terrorism Campaigns
The Washington-based group also asked the Indian government to protect all its citizens from the type of retaliatory attacks that have taken place following similar incidents in the recent past
Well, who armed and trained Osama against the Russians…why was he not a terrorist then? I'm not Muslim…(nor do I practice any religion staunchly) I understand calling a spade a spade…but Muslims are 25% of the world's population, and calling your baby ugly is never a good thing…I'm not condoning these acts…simply stating that if you are a thinker, think beyond the disease symptoms…think of the cure for the disease
Well, who armed and trained Osama against the Russians…why was he not a terrorist then? I’m not Muslim…(nor do I practice any religion staunchly) I understand calling a spade a spade…but Muslims are 25% of the world’s population, and calling your baby ugly is never a good thing…I’m not condoning these acts…simply stating that if you are a thinker, think beyond the disease symptoms…think of the cure for the disease
Also, one more thing ( and I remind you, I'm not Muslim, nor religious)..
Why do we need the "good muslim" to come out and condemn anything? Why are they accountable? Same thing with whites…why should "good whites" apologize for slavery? Why should "good Hindus" be held accountable for communal violence against Muslims or Sikhs? Why should "good Brits" apologize for their ancestors' occupation and exploitation of a significant portion of the world? Condemning or not condemning an act is irrelevant…does not change facts…let's try to avoid the act altogether, rather than having to condemn it…if a good human being feels compelled to "condemn" an act, more power to him/her…but that's not the point…
Also, one more thing ( and I remind you, I’m not Muslim, nor religious)..
Why do we need the “good muslim” to come out and condemn anything? Why are they accountable? Same thing with whites…why should “good whites” apologize for slavery? Why should “good Hindus” be held accountable for communal violence against Muslims or Sikhs? Why should “good Brits” apologize for their ancestors’ occupation and exploitation of a significant portion of the world? Condemning or not condemning an act is irrelevant…does not change facts…let’s try to avoid the act altogether, rather than having to condemn it…if a good human being feels compelled to “condemn” an act, more power to him/her…but that’s not the point…
OK..personal and profane attacks on people's opinions…that's real mature..that's right, your ideas are the best…and the most credible, since you used profanity…you are certainly a better person for that..
now I can see where half the world's problems come from…good luck with the rest of your life
OK..personal and profane attacks on people’s opinions…that’s real mature..that’s right, your ideas are the best…and the most credible, since you used profanity…you are certainly a better person for that..
now I can see where half the world’s problems come from…good luck with the rest of your life
[quote comment="9201"]Obviously the author of "Terrorism has no religion" wrote what he thought was an enlightening essay. However, the author, and all of us, have to realize that nearly all the major terrorist attacks in the last 15 years have been perpetrated by self professed and extremely fanatic Muslim believers. They have shown themselves to be willing, even anxious, to die and take the lives of infidels with them in the name of Islamic tenets.
What I find most disturbing is that moderate Muslims have not shown a willingness to condemn the actions of these Islamic terrorists.
Unless and until modern Islamic moderates act to reign in their fellow Muslim would be terrorists carnage such as we have seen in the United States, Bali, Spain and England will accelerate in terms of less time between attacks and ferocity of the attacks.[/quote]
So perhaps we should examine that 15 year timeline. Which way we going to go current to past or visa versa. Well let's just throw in Abu Graib, countless innocent Afghani wedding parties, raping and slaughtering Abeer and her family, numerous school and university shootings, US police gunning down innocent civilians, ramming plungers up butts, beating Rodney king into oblivion and telling the world that's not what you saw, and on and on and on. But wait! I get the idea it is only terrorism when it is attributed to anything remotely related to Islam be it origin, race, color, culture, dress. And to think one doesn't reflect the day after the OG American terrorism – the wholesale slaughter of the native people after helping the OG terrorist survive the previous year's winter!
[quote comment=”9201″]Obviously the author of “Terrorism has no religion” wrote what he thought was an enlightening essay. However, the author, and all of us, have to realize that nearly all the major terrorist attacks in the last 15 years have been perpetrated by self professed and extremely fanatic Muslim believers. They have shown themselves to be willing, even anxious, to die and take the lives of infidels with them in the name of Islamic tenets.
What I find most disturbing is that moderate Muslims have not shown a willingness to condemn the actions of these Islamic terrorists.
Unless and until modern Islamic moderates act to reign in their fellow Muslim would be terrorists carnage such as we have seen in the United States, Bali, Spain and England will accelerate in terms of less time between attacks and ferocity of the attacks.[/quote]
So perhaps we should examine that 15 year timeline. Which way we going to go current to past or visa versa. Well let’s just throw in Abu Graib, countless innocent Afghani wedding parties, raping and slaughtering Abeer and her family, numerous school and university shootings, US police gunning down innocent civilians, ramming plungers up butts, beating Rodney king into oblivion and telling the world that’s not what you saw, and on and on and on. But wait! I get the idea it is only terrorism when it is attributed to anything remotely related to Islam be it origin, race, color, culture, dress. And to think one doesn’t reflect the day after the OG American terrorism – the wholesale slaughter of the native people after helping the OG terrorist survive the previous year’s winter!
Kishen-
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.
Damn, this message board has just turned disheartening. Truly makes me sad.
They will do nothing to stop the killing, raping, etc. They'll riot over cartoons. They hide in the West to "leech" off of freedom. As if "they" are one homogeneous group. As if "they" aren't spread across the globe, in nations and in cultures across the world. I nearly said that "[they are] embedded in cultures", although it's the other way around, that people of different nations and cultures have embedded themselves in Islam, and Islam into their lives. Islam isn't some rage-inducing plague like I'm hearing it made out to be. And for Muslims with differing viewpoints, how are Muslims across the world expected to reach out and stop the killing, raping, etc? It sounds so simple, as though I, a white American, could have reached across the country and stopped cops from beating Rodney King. Or could have single-handedly stopped the KKK. Or if I, as a Jew, could reach across the world and ask the IDF to withdraw from Palestine. Expecting Muslims worldwide to unite and "stop the killing and raping" is- at present time- a ludicrous demand.
JWx2, Do you honestly believe that Muslims can just do these things so simply, when an established and united Western world can't even hammer out a unified, basic policy on most of today's issues??!?? How do you propose they stop being "cowardly" and begin to "clean up their own mess?" Kind of like America needs to clean up it's own urban and rural messes, where poverty-stricken Americans end up cracking out entire rural communities on methamphetamine or shooting each other up in American urban war zones? America, leader of the free world, has been waging wars on its own issues for decades. You expect a worldwide Muslim population to clean its act up overnight?
What drugs are you on, and where can I get some?
Kishen-
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.
Damn, this message board has just turned disheartening. Truly makes me sad.
They will do nothing to stop the killing, raping, etc. They’ll riot over cartoons. They hide in the West to “leech” off of freedom. As if “they” are one homogeneous group. As if “they” aren’t spread across the globe, in nations and in cultures across the world. I nearly said that “[they are] embedded in cultures”, although it’s the other way around, that people of different nations and cultures have embedded themselves in Islam, and Islam into their lives. Islam isn’t some rage-inducing plague like I’m hearing it made out to be. And for Muslims with differing viewpoints, how are Muslims across the world expected to reach out and stop the killing, raping, etc? It sounds so simple, as though I, a white American, could have reached across the country and stopped cops from beating Rodney King. Or could have single-handedly stopped the KKK. Or if I, as a Jew, could reach across the world and ask the IDF to withdraw from Palestine. Expecting Muslims worldwide to unite and “stop the killing and raping” is- at present time- a ludicrous demand.
JWx2, Do you honestly believe that Muslims can just do these things so simply, when an established and united Western world can’t even hammer out a unified, basic policy on most of today’s issues??!?? How do you propose they stop being “cowardly” and begin to “clean up their own mess?” Kind of like America needs to clean up it’s own urban and rural messes, where poverty-stricken Americans end up cracking out entire rural communities on methamphetamine or shooting each other up in American urban war zones? America, leader of the free world, has been waging wars on its own issues for decades. You expect a worldwide Muslim population to clean its act up overnight?
What drugs are you on, and where can I get some?
"People have to look to the acts by individuals to try to claim their are Christian terrorist. Show me the Christian version of Al Qeade. Show me a Mormon version of Al Qeade. Show me any organized attack like 911 committed by any religious group other then islam.[/quote]
Christian Version? The Crusades, The FBI under J.Edgar Hoover. For more information one could go to the Klanwatch and that Southern Law Project that tracks these Branch dividians, Charles Mansion, Jim Jones, Mormon polygamist groups etc etc. Organized attack? I think it was called Shock and Awe. May Malcolm's "Chickens coming home to Roost be remembered by all the deniers and remember McVeigh when he explained what the military turned him into. But we know, that was one individual and one's religion is NEVER revealed unless it appears to be Islamic. Remember the Va Tech murderer stated he was "dying for Jesus!"
“People have to look to the acts by individuals to try to claim their are Christian terrorist. Show me the Christian version of Al Qeade. Show me a Mormon version of Al Qeade. Show me any organized attack like 911 committed by any religious group other then islam.[/quote]
Christian Version? The Crusades, The FBI under J.Edgar Hoover. For more information one could go to the Klanwatch and that Southern Law Project that tracks these Branch dividians, Charles Mansion, Jim Jones, Mormon polygamist groups etc etc. Organized attack? I think it was called Shock and Awe. May Malcolm’s “Chickens coming home to Roost be remembered by all the deniers and remember McVeigh when he explained what the military turned him into. But we know, that was one individual and one’s religion is NEVER revealed unless it appears to be Islamic. Remember the Va Tech murderer stated he was “dying for Jesus!”
These comments are ridiculous. I am an American Muslim convert. I became Muslim 13 years ago. I used to think some of the same ignorant things that people are saying on this post. Do you all *actually* think that we as Muslims do not denounce these despicable acts of terrorism? When you're a member of the Muslim community, you tend to be more connected so you see things like newsletters, you hear sermons preached in the mosque etc. I can't tell you how many times we hear from our scholars and leaders how *wrong* terrorism is. They quote the scriptures for proof etc. We have organizations that try to communicate with the media, local politicians, etc. The denunciations are ALL OVER THE FREAKIN' PLACE. Do you want to know why you don't hear about it? Because the stupid media doesn't give us the face time on TV or radio. The media does not allow us to express our horror about these acts. Then I have to endure these stupid posts by ignorant people that think we "tacitly" approve of this garbage. Well, here is a post at the very least. WE DO NOT CONDONE THIS IN THE VERY LEAST. If an ocean represented terrorism, WE DO NOT APPROVE OF A SINGLE DROP OF IT. In Islam, terrorism unequivocally wrong and forbidden. If you have any doubt whatsoever, please escape your ignorance by visiting a local mosque and talk to a representative. Have a nice day.
These comments are ridiculous. I am an American Muslim convert. I became Muslim 13 years ago. I used to think some of the same ignorant things that people are saying on this post. Do you all *actually* think that we as Muslims do not denounce these despicable acts of terrorism? When you’re a member of the Muslim community, you tend to be more connected so you see things like newsletters, you hear sermons preached in the mosque etc. I can’t tell you how many times we hear from our scholars and leaders how *wrong* terrorism is. They quote the scriptures for proof etc. We have organizations that try to communicate with the media, local politicians, etc. The denunciations are ALL OVER THE FREAKIN’ PLACE. Do you want to know why you don’t hear about it? Because the stupid media doesn’t give us the face time on TV or radio. The media does not allow us to express our horror about these acts. Then I have to endure these stupid posts by ignorant people that think we “tacitly” approve of this garbage. Well, here is a post at the very least. WE DO NOT CONDONE THIS IN THE VERY LEAST. If an ocean represented terrorism, WE DO NOT APPROVE OF A SINGLE DROP OF IT. In Islam, terrorism unequivocally wrong and forbidden. If you have any doubt whatsoever, please escape your ignorance by visiting a local mosque and talk to a representative. Have a nice day.
[quote comment="9221"]what a bunch of BS and more excuses made in behalf of muslims. 99% of all conflicts in the world involve 'muslims' and commit terror,killings,murders in the name of allah. quit making excuses for the muslims who are too coward to clean up their own mess,but love to whine to the world about how the world is cleaing up these lowlifes.muslim in the west stay hidden and quiet while leeching off the freedoms and liberities of democracy. muslims will do nothing to stop the killing,raping and murders of innocent people,but will start a riot over some cartoon.[/quote]
Start a riot because of a cartoon? Like those who enslaved a race of people for centuries and slaughtered a continent of natives over an image they conjured up of Christ.
[quote comment=”9221″]what a bunch of BS and more excuses made in behalf of muslims. 99% of all conflicts in the world involve ‘muslims’ and commit terror,killings,murders in the name of allah. quit making excuses for the muslims who are too coward to clean up their own mess,but love to whine to the world about how the world is cleaing up these lowlifes.muslim in the west stay hidden and quiet while leeching off the freedoms and liberities of democracy. muslims will do nothing to stop the killing,raping and murders of innocent people,but will start a riot over some cartoon.[/quote]
Start a riot because of a cartoon? Like those who enslaved a race of people for centuries and slaughtered a continent of natives over an image they conjured up of Christ.
I read the following post three minutes ago:
"Author: Ricardo Pena
Comment:
These comments are ridiculous. I am an American Muslim convert. I became Muslim 13 years ago. I used to think some of the same ignorant things that people are saying on this post. Do you all *actually* think that we as Muslims do not denounce these despicable acts of terrorism? When you're a member of the Muslim community, you tend to be more connected so you see things like newsletters, you hear sermons preached in the mosque etc. I can't tell you how many times we hear from our scholars and leaders how *wrong* terrorism is. They quote the scriptures for proof etc. We have organizations that try to communicate with the media, local politicians, etc. The denunciations are ALL OVER THE FREAKIN' PLACE. Do you want to know why you don't hear about it? Because the stupid media doesn't give us the face time on TV or radio. The media does not allow us to express our horror about these acts. Then I have to endure these stupid posts by ignorant people that think we "tacitly"
approve of this garbage. Well, here is a post at the very least. WE DO NOT CONDONE THIS IN THE VERY LEAST. If an ocean represented terrorism, WE DO NOT APPROVE OF A SINGLE DROP OF IT. In Islam, terrorism unequivocally wrong and forbidden. If you have any doubt whatsoever, please escape your ignorance by visiting a local mosque and talk to a representative. Have a nice day."
Mr. Pena, you make some interesting points. However I have a few comments on your points. I wrote an earlier comment at 7:03 AM and my comment seems to be one of the comments you address.
It would seem that if Muslims, such as yourself, are actively condemning these terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims, you are not being successful. Why are you not successful? I'll tell you why, in my opinion, you are not being successful. Those of you who are protesting and condemning these acts are not as large a group as those who are behind the terrorism. You do not have the resources, mainly money, to stop these terrorist groups. They are inculcated with terrorism from childhood.
If Muslims such as yourself want this terrorism to stop, the only way to accomplish that is to find the money to organize a superior military force and destroy their training camps and activist cells around the world.
I read the following post three minutes ago:
“Author: Ricardo Pena
Comment:
These comments are ridiculous. I am an American Muslim convert. I became Muslim 13 years ago. I used to think some of the same ignorant things that people are saying on this post. Do you all *actually* think that we as Muslims do not denounce these despicable acts of terrorism? When you’re a member of the Muslim community, you tend to be more connected so you see things like newsletters, you hear sermons preached in the mosque etc. I can’t tell you how many times we hear from our scholars and leaders how *wrong* terrorism is. They quote the scriptures for proof etc. We have organizations that try to communicate with the media, local politicians, etc. The denunciations are ALL OVER THE FREAKIN’ PLACE. Do you want to know why you don’t hear about it? Because the stupid media doesn’t give us the face time on TV or radio. The media does not allow us to express our horror about these acts. Then I have to endure these stupid posts by ignorant people that think we “tacitly”
approve of this garbage. Well, here is a post at the very least. WE DO NOT CONDONE THIS IN THE VERY LEAST. If an ocean represented terrorism, WE DO NOT APPROVE OF A SINGLE DROP OF IT. In Islam, terrorism unequivocally wrong and forbidden. If you have any doubt whatsoever, please escape your ignorance by visiting a local mosque and talk to a representative. Have a nice day.”
Mr. Pena, you make some interesting points. However I have a few comments on your points. I wrote an earlier comment at 7:03 AM and my comment seems to be one of the comments you address.
It would seem that if Muslims, such as yourself, are actively condemning these terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims, you are not being successful. Why are you not successful? I’ll tell you why, in my opinion, you are not being successful. Those of you who are protesting and condemning these acts are not as large a group as those who are behind the terrorism. You do not have the resources, mainly money, to stop these terrorist groups. They are inculcated with terrorism from childhood.
If Muslims such as yourself want this terrorism to stop, the only way to accomplish that is to find the money to organize a superior military force and destroy their training camps and activist cells around the world.
Welcome to new readers of The Langar Hall. For those who are unfamiliar with our blog, please take a moment to read the About Us section of our site.
While we always appreciate and encourage dialogue, this blog is not a platform for hate speech, intolerance, or derogatory rants against other communities, including religious communities. We reserve the right to edit, redact, or remove your comments, and we will absolutely do so on this thread.
There is no conclusive evidence of a link between these attacks and Islam, and further, I stand by the author's argument that terrorism has no religion. We will not use this space to denigrate or promote hostility towards Islam or any other faith tradition. We are not proponents of racial profiling, of reductionist arguments, or of narrow-minded views of our roles as global citizens in a diverse world.
Please keep it respectful, or we'll close the comment thread.
Welcome to new readers of The Langar Hall. For those who are unfamiliar with our blog, please take a moment to read the About Us section of our site.
While we always appreciate and encourage dialogue, this blog is not a platform for hate speech, intolerance, or derogatory rants against other communities, including religious communities. We reserve the right to edit, redact, or remove your comments, and we will absolutely do so on this thread.
There is no conclusive evidence of a link between these attacks and Islam, and further, I stand by the author’s argument that terrorism has no religion. We will not use this space to denigrate or promote hostility towards Islam or any other faith tradition. We are not proponents of racial profiling, of reductionist arguments, or of narrow-minded views of our roles as global citizens in a diverse world.
Please keep it respectful, or we’ll close the comment thread.
While I fully agree with this article, I'd like to carry the thought one step further. The indiscriminate use of the "terrorist" label carries grave implications. Under the Patriot Act (perhaps the most inappropriately named bit of legislation in our history) merely being called a terrorist by even the lowest authority can result in the forfieture of the most basic rights guaranteed by our Constitution. See the ACLU archives for examples of the abuse and ill-motivated use of this "law". A recent major campaign illustrates the fact that those in power are prone to misuse of the word without concern for the potential effects on their targets. There's a very fine line between calling someone a terrorist and being one yourself.
While I fully agree with this article, I’d like to carry the thought one step further. The indiscriminate use of the “terrorist” label carries grave implications. Under the Patriot Act (perhaps the most inappropriately named bit of legislation in our history) merely being called a terrorist by even the lowest authority can result in the forfieture of the most basic rights guaranteed by our Constitution. See the ACLU archives for examples of the abuse and ill-motivated use of this “law”. A recent major campaign illustrates the fact that those in power are prone to misuse of the word without concern for the potential effects on their targets. There’s a very fine line between calling someone a terrorist and being one yourself.
Mr. Miller, your comment is incoherent. Not only are you asking Muslims to denounce terror attacks (and indeed, any terror attack made by any brown person, since apparently there is no accommodation or distinction in your argument for the incredible diversity of Muslims), you want all Muslims to be responsible for counter-funding any terrorist act attributed to "Islamists," anywhere in the world? World powers and governments haven't been able to adequately address issues of terror and security, but private citizens funding alternate solutions can? Were all Catholics and Protestants responsible for funding and stabilizing Ireland through over 70 years of civil war?
The onus is on the WORLD community to adhere to norms that shun behavior that preys on civilians.
I'm not a Muslim, but I would challenge those who deride Islam and Muslims to spend time getting to know your local Muslim community (presumably in the West), reading community announcements, and reflecting on the multiple view points of history that inform people's opinions instead of relying on an uncritical, Fox News-packaged bundle of screed.
Mr. Miller, your comment is incoherent. Not only are you asking Muslims to denounce terror attacks (and indeed, any terror attack made by any brown person, since apparently there is no accommodation or distinction in your argument for the incredible diversity of Muslims), you want all Muslims to be responsible for counter-funding any terrorist act attributed to “Islamists,” anywhere in the world? World powers and governments haven’t been able to adequately address issues of terror and security, but private citizens funding alternate solutions can? Were all Catholics and Protestants responsible for funding and stabilizing Ireland through over 70 years of civil war?
The onus is on the WORLD community to adhere to norms that shun behavior that preys on civilians.
I’m not a Muslim, but I would challenge those who deride Islam and Muslims to spend time getting to know your local Muslim community (presumably in the West), reading community announcements, and reflecting on the multiple view points of history that inform people’s opinions instead of relying on an uncritical, Fox News-packaged bundle of screed.
In response to comments, first, I find it disingenuous that people are upset that Muslims don't stand up and denounce these acts, then here I go and do just that and there are people that totally reject it and are quite offensive about it too. You will believe whatever you want to believe no matter what we do.
Now about Joe Miller's post, first, I agree we are not being successful but it is not for lack of trying. I disagree on your reasoning why we are not successful regarding the numbers. Here's something you can do to see for yourself. Go to the FBI website and if you do some searching, you will find information on terrorist groups around the world, such as Hamas and the IRA. If you find the so-called "Islamic" ones and add up what the FBI thinks is their total numbers, you will see that by conservative estimates, members of all these terror groups will total about 300,000. Now, do you know what percentage that 300,000 is of the whole Muslim community in the world?
It is .00025 or .025% Not even close to 1% of Muslims in the world are terrorists. The number of Muslims that are against terrorism is massive. You just don't ever hear about it.
Now, we may or may not have the resources as you say but that is irrelevant. If we agree for the sake of discussion that we suck at fighting terrorism, that doesn't mean we think it's okay, or that we're silently rooting them on. No, no, no. Believe me when I say that we wish we could hunt them down and be rid of them just as much as any non-Muslim would. Period.
In response to comments, first, I find it disingenuous that people are upset that Muslims don’t stand up and denounce these acts, then here I go and do just that and there are people that totally reject it and are quite offensive about it too. You will believe whatever you want to believe no matter what we do.
Now about Joe Miller’s post, first, I agree we are not being successful but it is not for lack of trying. I disagree on your reasoning why we are not successful regarding the numbers. Here’s something you can do to see for yourself. Go to the FBI website and if you do some searching, you will find information on terrorist groups around the world, such as Hamas and the IRA. If you find the so-called “Islamic” ones and add up what the FBI thinks is their total numbers, you will see that by conservative estimates, members of all these terror groups will total about 300,000. Now, do you know what percentage that 300,000 is of the whole Muslim community in the world?
It is .00025 or .025% Not even close to 1% of Muslims in the world are terrorists. The number of Muslims that are against terrorism is massive. You just don’t ever hear about it.
Now, we may or may not have the resources as you say but that is irrelevant. If we agree for the sake of discussion that we suck at fighting terrorism, that doesn’t mean we think it’s okay, or that we’re silently rooting them on. No, no, no. Believe me when I say that we wish we could hunt them down and be rid of them just as much as any non-Muslim would. Period.
All these posters here-I wonder if they think they are posting on a 'muslim' site.
All these posters here-I wonder if they think they are posting on a ‘muslim’ site.
There seems to be a common sense that the Muslim community has been lax in condemning terrorist acts. Exposing oneself to a little wider view shows that simply isn't true. See;
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
for a few dozen examples.
There seems to be a common sense that the Muslim community has been lax in condemning terrorist acts. Exposing oneself to a little wider view shows that simply isn’t true. See;
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
for a few dozen examples.
While I find the sentiments of this article to be coming from the right place, and I believe that everyone should make the extra effort to ensure there is no collective blame cast on any community for the actions of individuals who carry out atrocity, I find the whole idea that the context of extremist rhetoric and action should never be ascribed to aspects of religion very problematic, especially when politics and religion overlap and coincide. Would it be possible to discuss, for example, the rise of Hindu extremists in Orissa persecuting Christians without examining the role that some interpretations of Hinduism play in the dynamic?
I think that such a prohibition would actually destroy our ability to understand exactly what is going on in that situation. The same applies to issues related to extremist interpretations of Islam and individuals who perpetrate violence in the name of those interpretations. The London bombers, for example, had chapter and verse quotations from the Quran which they claimed justified their suicide bombing, which killed almost 60 people. How can anybody claim that to discuss this is off-limits? And even more so, how can we disable those Muslims who want to confront those erroneous and violent interpretations of Islam, if to even mention that certain actions may have theological roots as well as external pressures as ignition keys, is set off-limits, and considered to be, a priori, an assertion of 'generalisation', 'reductionism', and 'stereotyping'?
It is a very fine line to draw. Some people will exploit the situation to spread hatred of all Muslims. But we have to be prepared to confront and refute those who do that separately. We must not refuse to look at all possible interpretations and roots of violence in theological and religious terms, and how they interact with external pressures, cultural, political, economic, just because it might be awkward or difficult to do so. I say that this applies to all religions, to Islam, to Hinduism, to Judaism (in relation to the scripture quoted by West Bank settlers, for example) and yes, to Sikhism as well.
All it means is that we have to do our discussion and argument carefully, responsibly. And constantly, in parallel, we have to consistently refute any attempts to project ideas of collective culpability for crimes commited by individuals.
While I find the sentiments of this article to be coming from the right place, and I believe that everyone should make the extra effort to ensure there is no collective blame cast on any community for the actions of individuals who carry out atrocity, I find the whole idea that the context of extremist rhetoric and action should never be ascribed to aspects of religion very problematic, especially when politics and religion overlap and coincide. Would it be possible to discuss, for example, the rise of Hindu extremists in Orissa persecuting Christians without examining the role that some interpretations of Hinduism play in the dynamic?
I think that such a prohibition would actually destroy our ability to understand exactly what is going on in that situation. The same applies to issues related to extremist interpretations of Islam and individuals who perpetrate violence in the name of those interpretations. The London bombers, for example, had chapter and verse quotations from the Quran which they claimed justified their suicide bombing, which killed almost 60 people. How can anybody claim that to discuss this is off-limits? And even more so, how can we disable those Muslims who want to confront those erroneous and violent interpretations of Islam, if to even mention that certain actions may have theological roots as well as external pressures as ignition keys, is set off-limits, and considered to be, a priori, an assertion of ‘generalisation’, ‘reductionism’, and ‘stereotyping’?
It is a very fine line to draw. Some people will exploit the situation to spread hatred of all Muslims. But we have to be prepared to confront and refute those who do that separately. We must not refuse to look at all possible interpretations and roots of violence in theological and religious terms, and how they interact with external pressures, cultural, political, economic, just because it might be awkward or difficult to do so. I say that this applies to all religions, to Islam, to Hinduism, to Judaism (in relation to the scripture quoted by West Bank settlers, for example) and yes, to Sikhism as well.
All it means is that we have to do our discussion and argument carefully, responsibly. And constantly, in parallel, we have to consistently refute any attempts to project ideas of collective culpability for crimes commited by individuals.
Moderators
Are you aware that 'Darry Whit' in his comment at 6:44 am has linked to an Aryan Supremacist website? Selling neo Nazi, racist products?
My guess is that somehow this post got linked to in a neo nazi, white Nationalist forum. Hence the tidal wave of visitors with a certain, shall we say, perspective.
Moderators
Are you aware that ‘Darry Whit’ in his comment at 6:44 am has linked to an Aryan Supremacist website? Selling neo Nazi, racist products?
My guess is that somehow this post got linked to in a neo nazi, white Nationalist forum. Hence the tidal wave of visitors with a certain, shall we say, perspective.
If you think terrorism has no religion, read Infidel by Ayan Hirsi Ali, then see if you still think so.
If you think terrorism has no religion, read Infidel by Ayan Hirsi Ali, then see if you still think so.
Admin Kaur: in your editing, why did you remove comments about Muhammad??
and secondly, why would you refer to him as a prophet??
He is NOT a prophet for Sikhs and you call yourself "Admin Kaur" so I would assume you realize that the only prophets Sikhs' recognize are the Gurus themselves.
The author of the article doesn't seem to want to recognize the motivation behind attacks such as these are inspired by Muhammad himself and his religion Islam as professed by Jihadists. If you are uncomfortable with the facts why are you posting?? Instead of complaining about potential backlash, Muslims in India have come out and condemned the attacks which is what they should do, and secondly I would suggest they make tangible efforts such as condemning these acts and people as non-Muslims in their Friday sermons. There is an obligation on the part of Muslims to be pro-active when they are saying that their religion is being hijacked.
Admin Kaur: in your editing, why did you remove comments about Muhammad??
and secondly, why would you refer to him as a prophet??
He is NOT a prophet for Sikhs and you call yourself “Admin Kaur” so I would assume you realize that the only prophets Sikhs’ recognize are the Gurus themselves.
The author of the article doesn’t seem to want to recognize the motivation behind attacks such as these are inspired by Muhammad himself and his religion Islam as professed by Jihadists. If you are uncomfortable with the facts why are you posting?? Instead of complaining about potential backlash, Muslims in India have come out and condemned the attacks which is what they should do, and secondly I would suggest they make tangible efforts such as condemning these acts and people as non-Muslims in their Friday sermons. There is an obligation on the part of Muslims to be pro-active when they are saying that their religion is being hijacked.
well i feel " to many people wer the title of a muslim but the dont practic islam" islam is all about love and family and charity and praying to one god and we believe even a smile can be a charity and friends above all religion thr is human
well i feel ” to many people wer the title of a muslim but the dont practic islam” islam is all about love and family and charity and praying to one god and we believe even a smile can be a charity and friends above all religion thr is human
It's wrong to put blame on Muslims so soon. The Indian Government has been caught numerous times killing its own citizens in faked terror attacks to justify its persecution of its peoples. Needless to say, as horrible as this attack was .. will the international media also broadcast the plight of the general Muslim people in India when there is backlash? Also how does the international media pick and choose what horrible attacks happening within India are to be aired. Why wasn't the hundreds of thousands of Christians who were savagely attacked and displaced from their homes and families aired? Oh ya right .. they were only the dark skinned aboriginal peoples of the India .. besides they've been oppressed for generations .. its nothing new ..
It’s wrong to put blame on Muslims so soon. The Indian Government has been caught numerous times killing its own citizens in faked terror attacks to justify its persecution of its peoples. Needless to say, as horrible as this attack was .. will the international media also broadcast the plight of the general Muslim people in India when there is backlash? Also how does the international media pick and choose what horrible attacks happening within India are to be aired. Why wasn’t the hundreds of thousands of Christians who were savagely attacked and displaced from their homes and families aired? Oh ya right .. they were only the dark skinned aboriginal peoples of the India .. besides they’ve been oppressed for generations .. its nothing new ..
Prem, thanks for a clear and sophisticated post on the issue of religion and terror. We may also want to think here of a distinction between tribalism and universalism as part of religious thinking. Tribalism tends towards insularity,intolerance, paranoia, and conspiracy theories. Universalism promotes tolerance, accommodation, reflection, and open institutions. All religions seem to share this polarity and this also gets reflected in the make up of nation-states. While democratic nation-states tend towards universalism and propose human rights, the constituencies within continue being tribal and often want to deny such rights. Thus making nation-states unstable. So this is a tough one to solve. Can the Khalsa be a beacon of universalism and global citizenship as posters suggest here?
Prem, thanks for a clear and sophisticated post on the issue of religion and terror. We may also want to think here of a distinction between tribalism and universalism as part of religious thinking. Tribalism tends towards insularity,intolerance, paranoia, and conspiracy theories. Universalism promotes tolerance, accommodation, reflection, and open institutions. All religions seem to share this polarity and this also gets reflected in the make up of nation-states. While democratic nation-states tend towards universalism and propose human rights, the constituencies within continue being tribal and often want to deny such rights. Thus making nation-states unstable. So this is a tough one to solve. Can the Khalsa be a beacon of universalism and global citizenship as posters suggest here?
[…] article which claims that “terrorism has no religion,” was torn apart- along with the global Muslim community- by commentators. There were people […]
Camille, you make an idiotic comment when you show your extreme bias by writing, "instead of relying on an uncritical, Fox News-packaged bundle of screed." Just because Fox doesn't subscribe to uncritical left wing bullsh*t doesn't mean they don't put out factual news stories. I've noticed too many times to count how the authors on this site use those kinds of attacks against people whose views they don't agree with.. Don't you have any real counter argument to make or alternative way of expressing your opinion?
You claim that the MUSLIM TERRORISTS haven't been identified as muslims, but what do all the FACTS point to? former hostages themselves who are muslims have been quoted as saying that the MUSLIM TERRORISTS only let them go after the MUSLIM TERRORISTS asked if they were muslims. The MUSLIM TERRORISTS also told those two hostages that they'd killed the female hostages who had been previously held along with them after being taken away for being NON-muslim.
You seem to want to stifle any critical comments about Islam or muslims when they don't fit into your "one world" "kumbaya" point of view. Perhaps people like yourselves should remove your blinders to what is actually going on or is it that you would rather stick your head in the sand and wish or assume that there isn't a large group of people bent on your destruction in your midst.
Camille, you make an idiotic comment when you show your extreme bias by writing, “instead of relying on an uncritical, Fox News-packaged bundle of screed.” Just because Fox doesn’t subscribe to uncritical left wing bullsh*t doesn’t mean they don’t put out factual news stories. I’ve noticed too many times to count how the authors on this site use those kinds of attacks against people whose views they don’t agree with.. Don’t you have any real counter argument to make or alternative way of expressing your opinion?
You claim that the MUSLIM TERRORISTS haven’t been identified as muslims, but what do all the FACTS point to? former hostages themselves who are muslims have been quoted as saying that the MUSLIM TERRORISTS only let them go after the MUSLIM TERRORISTS asked if they were muslims. The MUSLIM TERRORISTS also told those two hostages that they’d killed the female hostages who had been previously held along with them after being taken away for being NON-muslim.
You seem to want to stifle any critical comments about Islam or muslims when they don’t fit into your “one world” “kumbaya” point of view. Perhaps people like yourselves should remove your blinders to what is actually going on or is it that you would rather stick your head in the sand and wish or assume that there isn’t a large group of people bent on your destruction in your midst.
[…] idiot at Langarhall writes, “Mumbai Attacks: Terrorism has no Religion.” Except that it does. It’s called […]