Beware of the ‘Boogeyman’ that is the BKI
The Broadcast Piece:
Last week Radio 4 on the BBC broadcasted a piece titled “Sikh Terror – the UK Connection.” The piece was produced by Amardeep Bassey as an investigation into possible terror links within the UK Sikh community. You can download the 40 minute report by clicking here.
Despite other bloggers believing that criticism of the piece by Bassey somehow emboldens the enemies, my feeling is that is as stupid as saying “You’re with us or with the terrorists.” However, those that cannot begin the process of internal discussion within the community are guilty of the same stupidity.
I have major problem’s with Bassey’s portrayal. To interview Ajay Sahni and claim him from the “independent Institute of Conflict Management in New Delhi,” the same organization that is headed by the “Butcher of Punjab” – KP Gill, flies in the face of all Sikhs. The praise that Gill receives in the Indian press and this omission in the BBC report only further insults those families that were devastated by state violence. Human rights groups such as the Khalra Action Committee, ENSAAF, and others are at the forefront of fighting for justice for the victims of state violence. To interview a member of an organization that is led by Gill, claim him as an ‘independent’ authority, and not provide context about the charges raised by groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch about Gill is beyond an error of omission. It reeks of negligent white-washing.
Some claims by Sahni border on hilarious. The only reason I writes ‘borders’ is because some will actually take them seriously. He contends:
“We are aware that at least about 100 Sikh radical elements, just from Europe and the UK alone, have trained in Pakistan-based terror camps. The presumption is that they’re training as a reserve to act in India when the opportunity arises.”
So when was this? If this information is even true, then it is over 10-15 years old. How many Sikh youth do you know would put themselves at security risk to travel to Pakistan (especially post 9/11) to gain training and then sit around with it ‘just in case.’ Do others find this absurd?
Also to conflate problematic decision-making processes (or rather the lack of) and the violence that at times infects certain Gurdwaras during election time with Islamist terror groups (and not making distinction between Islamist terrorism and regional nationalists that may employ Islam as a unifying factor such as certain Kashmiri groups) is shoddy journalism at best; at worst it is yellow journalism in an attempt to create an atmosphere of fear and suspicion.
Real Problems in Our Community:
However, there ARE problems within the community. We don’t need knee-jerk reactionary press releases or perpetual campaigns of complaint from various ideological organizations. We do need to begin having conversations about how to fix our Gurdwaras. We NEED decision-making processes based on consensus-building, not that of majoritarianism. We need more transparency and better management of funds. Old notions that committees ‘ate’ the money are usually little more than mud-slinging. Bad management is a problem; community pilfering less so.
The Kids:
Also, we need to end the hype. There are many messageboards that are filled with young children that pretend to speak for groups such as the BKI. There are other adults in the community that also talk as if the BKI still exists. The BKI has become the boogeyman. There is no BKI. The BKI of the 1990s is dead and finished. We need critical analysis of their unique failings. Joyce Pettigrew’s Sikhs of the Punjab lists many.
What we need to stop doing is pretending this ghost is alive. Few of the networks still survive, but those most active in calling themselves members have NOTHING to do with anything. These are young children in the teens and 20s, often part of the AKJ that helped spawn the BKI, that missed the actual period of conflict and have appropriated their symbols and logos. The guns of the Babbar Khalsa logo has become ‘cool.’ It has become the Sikh youth Che Guevera T-Shirt. Find another logo kids.
Claiming ‘Credit’
Random incidents occur in Punjab. Just last month we saw 2 Sikhs roll a tire with a grenade at the DSS motorcade. Despite people that will accuse me of naivete, I think I have some insight into this matter. There will be individuals that act out of their own feelings and sentiments. To believe that some concerted effort with Pakistani, Al-Qaida, or other boogeymen either means these Sikh groups are extremely inept or shows that these are in fact individual efforts. The problem is that people that have old ties claim ‘credit’ for anything and everything that occurs. They do this believing that through this ‘credit’ they will be able to financially capitalize. Those days are over. Stop claiming credit. You didn’t do anything. You had no role, stop claiming it.
It is the Air India case in Canada and the role allegedly played by Talwinder Singh Parmar that put the BKI on the international map. It is no longer on the map, except by governmental groups that through a sort of odd ‘affirmative action’ process have to make sure to include non-Islamist groups to their terrorist-watch lists to pretend to be even-handed, those Sikh opportunists that believe they will somehow financially capitalize from its association by claiming credit to things they had nothing to do with, and finally other kids that want to be ‘cool’ by appropriating symbols that they don’t understand.
Instead though taking ‘credit’ and trying to be ‘cool,’ find better and more productive ways to be a nationalist instead of continuing with this BKI boogeyman that doesn’t exist. Plus if nationalism really is your bent, you can best serve your cause by seeking the support of other nations, not feeding into their hysteria. Self-reflection may actually help you. Try it!
Regardless, for the best of the community, put the name, the logo, and the fake ‘credit’ to rest.
Random Posts
Mmm… I can go along with that.
You try telling these kids to stop with the BKI hype. They’re thugs and will curse you and threaten you with violence if you even try to talk sense to them. I’ve had conversations with some of their kind, and believe me, they are deranged.
The big problem is that there are factions and vested interests who fight for control of some Gurdwarey in the UK and elsewhere. They have their own agenda, and bring politics and sleazy hatreds into the matter. It’s only a minority of Gurdwarey at which this happens, but when it does happen, it is obscene. To see men defiling Gurdwarey through fighting and cursing. The accusations of being ‘traitors to the panth’ gets thrown around, and most of the times, it has at least something to do with ideological assertion and fundamentalism. If we don’t face up to that, watch generations of young Sikhs turn away from the religion in disgust, watch us leave ourselves vulnerable to stereotyping and watch us become a weakened house divided. There are too many thugs and hooligans out there claiming to be servants of the panth.
The trouble is, Kashmiri Islamist groups have been integrated with al-Qaeda for a long, long time. Lashkar-e-Toiba has been assimilated at some levels into the global Jihadist movement, and British Pakistanis have travelled to Pakistan and used it as one of many touch points to al-Qaeda. Omar Sheikh, the British Pakistani who lured Daniel Pearl to his beheading in Karachi was a part of this linking process.
At some level, you shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of this nexus being real. Why are there so many militant Sikhs hosted in Lahore?
Pablo I agree that people throw around accusations of being ‘traitors to the panth,’ too often, but I disagree with you that in a way this is sort of some real ideological assertion.
Sunny on his blog has commented before that this is a sort of village-mentality that pervades. However if you come from a background as such, you will know that in general we are not very ideological people. At the end of the day it is really just about power and ego. In fact follow the occurrences in Afghanistan and take a look in the mirror. Tribes and warlords (we have a lot of warlords based on how rich you are in our community) would join or quit with Taliban forces with however the tide was flowing. These people were not ideological, they just want power. We are the same. We will take up and abandon slogans if we believe that somehow it serves us.
Yes, people will throw issues and slogans around, be it ‘Khalistan’ or ‘Tables and Chairs,’ or whatever else, but at the end of the day watch the strange bed fellows that these same groups will make when it is expedient for them.
I am trying to help these kids. If they cuss and cry, it wouldn’t be the first time.
Pablo,
Sorry I missed your first comment. You are right that SOME Kashmiri groups probably will align themselves with Jihad International Inc. However, these are the ones with the least support amongst the masses. This is also how government’s discredit causes. They lump even nationalist causes with fundamentalism. This is a government ploy, by no means limited to India. We should be smarter than to be led into this trap.
With regards to why are SOME Sikh militants hosted in Lahore, easy — where else would they go? During the height of the militancy, some Pakistani officials thought they could somehow use it to their advantage. The old adage ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ is not new to the game realpolitik. However, as these Sikhs groups would learn, Bhutto would and did sacrifice them at a whim. Maybe they really weren’t really good friends.
Plus some of these Sikhs have been there for almost 20-25 years. Most of their adult lives were spent in Pakistan. Pakistan is THEIR HOME now.
How do you suggest explaining to them? Let me tell you something Jodha, you cannot dismiss the ideological imperative in some of this violence and discontent we see. I personally know that there are certain ‘elders’, relics from the old days of the firebrand mixing of politics and religion, who do actively stir up hatreds, and use brainwashed and testosterone filled youths into thinking they are on the verge of striking a blow for the freedom of Khalistan, by beating up some old man, or a radio presenter, or someone else, just for their own ends, because they don’t like this or they don’t like that. I’ve seen it at first hand, and it is real. Sure they’re being used and manipulated, but on a certain level this whole thing is being stoked to keep alive certain factions and elders power, and it can really get out of control sometimes. I won’t list the examples of when the thugs get out of control, because quite frankly, as a Sikh, I am embarassed by it, but the list is long, and I’m talking about over the last 5 years.
BKI is the boogeyman? Wow, maybe you should read some of the stuff they’ve done to people in the past twenty years. They’re terrorists just like ISYF and Bhinderwale.
This post has made me refrain from reading the langar hall blog in future.
I agree with the last two posts to a certain extent, at least in their sentiment of thinking that BKI and their ilk have to be taken at face value. I have met some of the people that argue the BKI position and they are absolutely resolutely fanatic and oprnly state their agreement with violence in the cause of Khalistan. Unless we stay vigilant against them they will grow in the same way any violent ideological group can grow. If we simply dismiss them as boogeymen they get a free pass. The key is staying vigilant.
Dear ‘Reader’:
Please forgive my ignorance, but could you please detail some of the terrorist acts committed by ‘Bhindranwale’? I’m hoping you can provide details of activity for which he was criminally tried in court, or perhaps even charged, and where substantial, credible evidence was stacked against him.
My research, albeit rather informal, has turned-up little evidence of terrorist activity committed by Bhindranwale.
Given that your statement was made in a very ‘matter of fact’ manner, I’m guessing you have access to credible evidence and I would be grateful if you could share it with me on this website.
Cheers.
One more thing for Jodha — saying that BKI being placed on the terrorist list by the USA and the UK is because of some politically correct manoevuring just to dilute the sense that only Islamic extremists commit terrorism, this is, to be fair, a little bit of conjecture with no basis in fact. BKI is on the list because it deserves to be on the list, along with Irish Republican terrorists, the Tamil Tigers, and so on. It deserves to be on the list of banned terrorist organisations, and if they are active in any way I have no doubt that they will come under scrutiny in America, Britain and Canada, just as Islamist groups and Tamil groups have been.
Pablo,
I can appreciate your abhorrence for those who advocate violence against the innocent public; I share your sentiments.
However, the spectre of the BKI (I agree with Jodha that the BKI is more ghostly than substantial) is often used to overshadow or dismiss human rights abuses suffered by Sikhs and the horrendous terrorism committed by the Indian state against the Sikhs.
If there are Sikhs advocating violence, they are a tiny, insignificant segment of the Sikh community. However, I agree that even this small amount of sabre-rattling should be addressed so that there is less distraction from the very real and substantial atrocities committed by the Indian government.
I’m sure you would agree with me, that any crimes allegedly committed by the BKI fade to almost nothingness when compared to those crimes committed by the Indian government against the Sikhs. Where we actively address the few gnats in our community who may be pushing for violence, we certainly should not be ignoring the 1000lb gorrilla hulking in the same room.
P Singh
All the more reason to strongly condemn whatever there is that remains of BKI and ensure they do not indulge in rhetoric or action that can be used to discredit the campaign for accountability. Let’s be honest, it is possible to condemn them, their hardline ideology which in the first instance affects Sikhs (Gurdwara fights, stereotyping, bad fundamentalist vibes), and simultaneously condemn human rights abuses in Punjab. At the very least acknowledge there is a problem no matter how small and condemn them and challenge their rhetoric and action.
I mean, at this moment in time, when Sikhs are stereotyped and suffer because of racist misapprehension that someone wearing a turban is associated with al-Qaeda, we need to marginalise totally any elements that indulge in rhetoric or action that can be associated in any way with violence. We cannot compromise on this.
Pablo,
I have no problem with the Babbar Khalsa being labeled a terrorist organization. I am hardly trying to defend their case. By the way, it is currently NOT on the list in the United States, although it is in Canada, the EU, and the UK. My only point is that their supposed prominence and capability is grossly exaggerated and mainly due to the Sikhs’ own fault for the reasons I have listed.
As far as ‘fluffing’ the list, groups such as Greece’s Revolutionary Nuclei that have been held responsible for one death in 2000 also finds its way to the State Department’s list. Confront these groups through the existing law enforcement agencies, we don’t have to create an atmosphere of hysteria about the evils that lurk behind the counter of the Greek Gyro Restaurant.
We are more or less in agreement then. Except it’s not ‘hysterical’ to have a list of proscribed organisations and see persecution and paranoid conspiracy everywhere. Nobody is ‘creating fear’.
Pablo,
Are you actually serious? Did you not see the video posted in the previous blog (the power of nightmares)? By the way since your English and all… it is produced by the BBC. I mean, seriously… information bias.
By the way, In 2005 I was working on a paper about the BKI. When my professor asked me to find their current “activities” (meaning in 2005) I had a VERY HARD time doing so. Logically, to me that indicates not much is happening from their part.
Nicole
Yes I am serious. I didn’t realise that sharing nationalisy meant you had to agree with the opinions expressed in a documentary produced by a compatriots of yours. Paranoid conspiracy theorising about nefarious men in shadowy rooms banning BKI for anything other than that it is a terrorist organisation are frankly risible. If you’re not a supporter of them, don’t protest about it.
I have no doubt you had a very hard time finding out about their activities. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist or are not dormant or don’t deserve to be criticised for their ideology and actions.
Pablo,
I do not agree with the thrust of your last comment. If the BKI is not/has not been engaging in any violent activity for the last 5,10,15 years, bringing them up as an example of the continuing danger of Sikh terrorism is, in essence, erecting a boogeyman to frighten the public. This is nothing short of fear-mongering.
I have no reason to doubt that the BKI members you have met have said what you claim, although I am obliged to say, I have met my share of BKI members and I have never heard them advocating violence, but rather, their focus seems to have been on human rights abuses, and securing XYZ rights for Sikhs in India. Has there been a shift in the BKI’s ideology from achieving rights through violence to achieving rights through political means? Are there extreme and less-extreme factions of the BKI? I’m hoping someone knowledgeable about the BKI can answer these questions.
Moreover, where ideology is concerned, I am assuming you mean using violence against the innocent public, in which case I agree – there is no room for such violence.
However, if by ideology you are referring to BKI’s political demands for a seperate nation for Sikhs, a Khalistan etc., then I am not in agreement with you. The BKI, other Sikh groups, or any non-Sikh groups for that matter, are entitled to voice their political opinions and take action in support of their political stance, as long as such action does not result in innocent blood-shed. I am tempted to say all such political action must follow established laws; however, many successful political movements have been successful precisely because they refused to follow established laws, especially in countries like India, which do not hesitate to slaughter their own people. The “Quit India Movement” comes to mind as one example.
I may not support the politics of the BKI or other similar organizations; however, they have every right to voice their opinion, as opposing groups have a right to voice their criticism of such opinion.
Who is ‘fearmongering’? What conspiracy are you party to? Who is raising a boogeyman?
Good — let’s start from that basis. And make sure nobody infects the Sikh community with a violent ideology that foments hatred or violence against anyone. BKI is a proscribed terrorist organisation. That’s a source of strength for all Sikhs who despise terrorism. We are stronger in positions as moderates because of it.
Let the man keep telling you what you are.
They dressed in our bana and killed innocent people.
They used our names and planted bombs.
They bought our weakest links and jailed our strongest warriors.
Now, with propaganda and public ignorance they make it all look like our fault.
“They” ^ = Indian Government Black Cats.
If you re-read my post, my statements should be self-explanatory. Most anyone engaged in highlighting the present danger of Sikh terrorism, with no evidence in support, is fearmongering and raising a boogeyman.
I don’t care what list a particular group falls on – I make my decisions and judgments based on my own logical reasoning and analysis of the facts; I do not blindly accept what is proscribed by the government, or any other institutional body.
If I was to believe in everything put forward by the governments of the world, I’d still be convinced weapons of mass destruction are in Iraq (US Gov’t), or that the Gaddar Party was a terrorist group (Britian), or that Guru Gobind Singh ji and fellow Sikhs were criminals and deserving of death (Mughal Raj). Heck, what Amritdhari Sikh wasn’t considered a terrorist by the Indian government of the 80’s and early 90’s – especially if the Sikh had the gall to stand up and fight against the oppression heaped upon her/him?
I have not done enough research on the BKI to know exactly what they have done or are currently doing – it may well be they deserve/still deserve to be labelled as terrorists and wholly condemned as such. However, the fact that a government(s) lists them as a proscribed organization, means next to nothing to me.
I should also point out, I’m not a fan of catch-words like ‘moderate’ and ‘fundamentalist’ – they become convenient labels to seperate ‘them’ and ‘us’, and are nebulous terms at best.
good post, good discussion.
jodha discussed it in the post, and pablo fleshed it out a bit…but, i’d love to see more on the “kids” issue as it relates to AKJ and BKI movements. admittedly, i’m a bit out of the loop and don’t know too many personally, but from a distance, something is just amiss. whether it’s embracing a judgmental level of fundamentalism/puritanism, the exclusivity and lack of assimilation, and their rhetoric (as discussed above).
i’d just like to learn more, perhaps hear others’ perspectives.
thanks.
Oh – and now we have the Sikh Activist Network, embracing the likes of Hugo Chavez, the Zapatistas and modeling their mission statement after that of the Black Panthers. Given their heroes and role models, I think they might have a skewed sense of Sikhs’ role and position in society, and the best approach to take in addressing issues as they arise. Just a thought, and I mention it because although their position states “non-violence,” I wonder about the undercurrent and influences.
so its all scaremongering then….??
The government, the media, the so-called representatives of the Sikh community like SGPC, 3HO, Sikh Coalition, – their opinions mean nothing to the Khalsa. Their opinions are worth less than an Indonesian sen (penny). The Khalsa follows the teachings of the Guru. The Khalsa is sovereign and independent. The Khalsa defends the weak, protects the innocent, and punishes the oppressor. The role of the Khalsa is described in Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth Sahib. Read it to learn.
1 Indonesian Sen = 0.0000011 US Dollars
figure of speech.
Dear Bhai Balwant,
Thank you for the international exchange rate of currency. So do you speak for the Khalsa? What is the decision-making process of the Khalsa?
The decision making process of the Khalsa, as per Panthic traditions, is to have a “Sarbat Khalsa Samelan” where at least one representative from every Sikh organization around the world will gather at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and attend a conference of issues and discussions and debates. Everyone should have the opportunity to give input, there should be approval of motions by the sangat through Jaikaras and if someone disagrees, they should stand before the sangat and give their viewpoint. If the sangat there makes a decision, the Five Jathedars of the Five Takhts should put it in writing, do Ardas before Guru Granth Sahib ji, and it should be accepted as the final decision of the GURU.
I know ‘moderate’ can be a nebulous term, but I’m encouraged to see ‘moderate’ opinions on this blog. Generally the internet is filled with the youth described in this article, who wear BKI’s logo and are duped into violence and feudalism.
I think this Balwant character is the only one to show up and represent what is usually the prominent opinion on the web. That of hatred, division, violence, extremism, etc. He’s so extreme he will never come back to the site because it expresses a different opinion than he holds. He is feudal and divisive because he labels people and then says they’re wrong. He is violent in his mention of “punishing the oppressor.”
Even though I call myself a Sikh, people always label me as a “3HO” Sikh, I think I’m probably one of those people that Balwant would like to “punish.”
I like how his solution to panthic problems comes down to who can yell the loudest (i.e. agreements via jaikaras). Classic feudal, violent, embarrassing, rhetoric found on the internet, and described in this article.
Those who know me, probably know that I’m a bit jaded by now after meeting so many narrow minded “Sikhs” and being threatened and insulted on my personal blog. Balwant Ji, sorry to make an example of you, but, like all of us, you have some learning to do.
Sat Naam.
[...] I am not saying all T-shirts are equal. In a prior post, I suggested that Sikh kids should retire the BKI T-shirts and other T-shirts. In that post, I wrote: The guns of the Babbar Khalsa logo has become [...]
[...] Somewhat related: BKI as Boogeyman [...]
[quote comment="1069"]Oh – and now we have the Sikh Activist Network, embracing the likes of Hugo Chavez, the Zapatistas and modeling their mission statement after that of the Black Panthers. Given their heroes and role models, I think they might have a skewed sense of Sikhs’ role and position in society, and the best approach to take in addressing issues as they arise. Just a thought, and I mention it because although their position states “non-violence,” I wonder about the undercurrent and influences.[/quote]
Sizzle, I think your ideological filters have in fact skewed your ability to actually look at what the Network represents and its clear foundation in Sikh Liberation Theology. Also, its interesting that you are so quick to speak down on Hugo Chavez and the like.
About one year ago, I traveled to Venezuela and met with Hugo Chavez, Vice President Rodriguez and many other community leaders and I assure you that Sikh practices were much more inline with their lifestyle than any capitalist state.
i assure you, i find your post hilarious. did you run into sean penn while you were down there? if so, that’d be doubly hilarious.
mull over this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/18/hugo-chavez-venezuela-elections-wiretaps
or this:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE4A83DT20081109
and those are just from the last week.
WJKK WJKF!
Yes sizzle I did see Sean Penn, in fact I was about 6 seats down from him at the Summit for the Explosion of Popular Power.
Also, I did meet with the opposition while I visited and although some of their concerns are legitimate, I can see that you lack a clear understanding of what is really occurring in the country. Whereas I had an opportunity to witness what the truth was with first hand experience on the ground, you are limited to imagining reality through the internet.
I suggest you look into some of the policies regarding healthcare, environment, poverty and illiteracy (just to name a few) and how the government has fared on that front.
With regards to the articles if you had any knowledge of recent history you would understand that the so called opposition are in fact criminals, and any surveillance is the consequence of the oppositions use of foreign funds and CIA backed strategy to overthrow a government which history has witnessed has been backed by the people of the state.
When it comes down to it even the opposition cannot help but admit that Chavez has done more for their country than any previous leader and the massive majority that has supported him shows the power of a true democracy.
Lastly, I am not sure what you find so amusing by quoting my text, however it paints a very clear picture of your immaturity.
ps – your article forgot to mention the following.
“Venezuelan Telecommunications Minister Jesse Chacon presented a video revealing the opposition strategy of destabilization for Sunday’s referendum at a press conference on Thursday. In the video, opposition leaders call on their supporters to reject the results of the referendum and to take part in nation-wide protests to overturn the constitutional reform. Two opposition leaders are being investigated for inciting violence and calling on supporters to break the law.”
I wonder how much money the CIA is putting into destabilizing the socialist democracy this time.
because continuing this tangential political discussion, which, as i’ve outlined in my head, would encapsulate the separation of church and state, the conflation of political and philisophical dogma in sikh teachings, distinguishing a general political ideology from the historical execution and application of said ideology, discovering where one stands on “the ends justify the means” curve, exploring the moral equivalency between libertarian-ish democracies and socialist thugocracies, analyzing our trust in media and propaganda from various outlets, how we might understand a person’s soul by meeting them and looking them in the eye (kind of like george w. and putin), and my your perception of my immaturity matched by my perception of naivete and misguidedness…..well, continuing this conversation will be the equivalent of talking to a wall – for both of us. so, i’ll end it here. please don’t interpret this message as any sort of concession – i’m just extremely busy.
Adios! as a certain bellicose oil-rich Venezuelan might say.
My intention is not to change your opinion, but merely to provide an alternative understanding to your claims.
Your reponses have unfortunately been overshadowed by a hint of arrogance, ignorance and immaturity. However, I suspect that anyone who reads this will recognize your inability to egange in healthy discussion while noting the illegitimacy in the claims you have made.
The difference in our opinions is that you play the role of the child on the playground who heard about the rumour, whereas I am the child that was there. Being in Venezuela I experienced the realities on the ground allowing me to develop my own perceptions through first hand experience. You on the other hand appear to have accepted the rumours presented to you through opinion journalism that reached you only after being processed through numerous ideological filtered media networks and minds.
Unfortunately, you have not only done this in your discussion regarding Venezuela but also the Sikh Activist Network. Again, being personally involved with the network I wonder which of the activities concern you so much and which you have witnessed taking place?
Perhaps it is one of the following…
- Big Brother and Sister Programs for children in high risk communities
- Langar Seva for homeless
- Immigrant Rights
- Langar Seva at Gurdwaras
- Etc
dude.
1. read my post immediately above, again. and maybe for a third time. and a fourth. think about it. then read it again.
2. stating, “Your reponses have unfortunately been overshadowed by a hint of arrogance, ignorance and immaturity,” when i haven’t really responded to anything in any substantive way (because, again, i have no time), with a writing style that smacks of “holier than thou” attitude and supreme arrogance (perhaps you’re not self aware enough to notice?) is………what’s that word i used earlier? oh, right. hilarious.
but keep up the good fight and keep on posting, arguing and making longer and longer points “against” someone who isn’t really responding on a personal and “substantive” way. if you keep at it, some day you’ll have all the gold stars you could ever want!
hey – i have a minute, saw this in my email, and want to add one point:
citing good deeds and certain success, especially in the context of an entire government and ideology, doesn’t erase certain sins, misdeeds or fundamental flaws of that government or ideology. and that is, of course, where we disagree. I have no doubt that Chavez, the zapatistas and other figures and organizations to which i am not at all sympathetic have done a lot of good in various ways. but, this is also why i mentioned the “ends justify the means” debate earlier in addition to a balancing test i mentioned above in this post. the same test is applicable to the united states – where our “capitalist” system does little to assist those who may need it most in comparison to other “socialist” nations. this, in many minds, is a clear misdeed. however, a tremendous, TREMENDOUS amount of good for not only US citizens but people the world over has resulted from the system that we have in place. but all this is besides the point. in my mind, what i just wrote is a given, a default, simple utilitariansim that anyone who discusses politics should understand. i’m just at a loss as to how my criticism and questions of certain attributes of a sikh organization, namely stated their inspiration by and apparent support of certain historical figures who are controversial and known for certain methods and platforms. moreover, these historical figures were chosen from amongst MANY who have done good deeds. indeed, the one element that is most common and obvious between the chavez, panthers and zapatistas is that they adopted militant techniques to achieve their ends of equality, fairness, and protection of the defenseless (as they see it). so, isn’t it only rational to ask “why them?” of all the organizations and historical figures that south equality, fairness and protection of teh defenseless, is there a correlation between choosing militant inspirations and the mindset of the Sikh Activist Network? and yet here you are….calling me immature for asking the question.
we can criticize respective systems and discuss these matters, the historical reputation of those individuals and organizations, ad infinitum. but, where i fault you and find you, to be frank, silly, is where you turned the discussion cited your limited real world experience. it reminds me of when my aunt and uncle went to china a few months before the olympics, checked it out for three weeks, and came back reporting that it was amazing place and they don’t understand the criticism and how anyone could construe as anything other than a first world nation. it didn’t matter that they had hit all the hot spots, the tourist locations, were almost always led by a govt official, and were limited in what they saw. only later, when certain exposes that were featured because of the olympics, did they realize – oh wait, i may not have teh whole picture and any better of a perspective just because i was there. i think that is pretty applicable here. i don’t fault you for what you believe, i don’t fault you for your ideology, and i don’t fault you for your stance – we are more than free to disagree. but when you try to defend an entire ideology, a politician with many facets, a nation, a government, and a system by staying “i was there, i saw it, you’re just reading stuff on the internet” – well, that is just dumb, and i have no qualms about calling you out about it.
so, in conclusion, if all this makes me an ignorant, immature child – well, ok – i’d rather be an ignorant, immature child than whatever you might be.
Gurfateh jio,
Babbar Khalsa are the reason to why sikhs have some recognision in the world, Indian govt listens to sikhs because they know that Babbar Khalsa will always re-emerge to protect the panth.
What have “moderates” done to protect sikhism.
If maintaining satkar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji makes sikhs terrorist, then thats what we should be.
The potential presence of Babbar Khalsa makes Indian Govt listen to sikhs like Badal and SGPC.
If no Kaddku Singhs, then not respect for Sikh politicans.