Amritdharis Banned from Gurdwara in Rochester
Throughout the weekend, numerous reports have been circulating throughout the Punjabi language press of a ban being enforced by the management committee of a Gurdwara in Rochester, NY. We have received a large number of emails with regards to the matter (Pagh Salute: Balmeet Singh). Various press reports suggest a local power dispute was largely the cause, where one group suggested that the Gurdwara was their ‘private property.’ Subsequently they have rejected that the Sangat is supreme and have thus attempted to gain a court-order ban on attendance by Amritdhari Singhs and Singhnis. Details are still rather sketchy, hopefully locals can give us some perspective.
Numerous commentaries can be viewed on youtube. The topic has been the discussion on various Punjabi language radio shows. A vigorous conversation within the community is occurring. One video has pictures that suggested there was a protest last week.
Looking for historical parallels, many groups are calling this group of so-called ‘owners’ – ‘mahants’ recalling the vocabulary during the Gurdwara Morcha movement in the early part of the 20th century. What do our Langar-readers suggest as the correct course of action? Granted, the Gurdwara in question (that of Rochester, NY) is not a historical Gurdwara. Should Singhs and Kaurs in the community attempt to press the committee to rescind its decision or would it be better to open another Gurdwara in the area, one where the Sangat truly is supreme? Are there other options?
180 Responses to “Amritdharis Banned from Gurdwara in Rochester”
I enjoy you much more than i presume to be good for basic human health, because you provide an endless supply of hilarious and slightly outrageous lies. I do fear that it is very sad because of the way that you're argument is incredibly shallow and in previous posts you made it more than clear to us that you are clearly involved with these Massands and possibly even one of their sons. Yes, we do have that kind of information, you are practically handing it out. Also , in reference to us using half of our energy to make a new Gurdwara, we did use all of our energy to create a Gurdwara, and then it was stolen by money hungry dogs who have an insatiable hunger for any thing they can get their hands on. Perhaps you, since you enjoy branding Sikhism, and say that you have your own "type" of Sikhism (even though there is only one true kind and that was a blatant lie, for all you do is twist Sikhism into a perverted mess) you should divert the money you've stolen to build you're own….well I don't even have a rational name for whatever you have created out of our place of worship. Things come to an impasse when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object. When it's an unstoppable force against a bunch of old men and their immediate family, well, I'll let you confer what the outcome will be.
I enjoy you much more than i presume to be good for basic human health, because you provide an endless supply of hilarious and slightly outrageous lies. I do fear that it is very sad because of the way that you're argument is incredibly shallow and in previous posts you made it more than clear to us that you are clearly involved with these Massands and possibly even one of their sons. Yes, we do have that kind of information, you are practically handing it out. Also , in reference to us using half of our energy to make a new Gurdwara, we did use all of our energy to create a Gurdwara, and then it was stolen by money hungry dogs who have an insatiable hunger for any thing they can get their hands on. Perhaps you, since you enjoy branding Sikhism, and say that you have your own "type" of Sikhism (even though there is only one true kind and that was a blatant lie, for all you do is twist Sikhism into a perverted mess) you should divert the money you've stolen to build you're own….well I don't even have a rational name for whatever you have created out of our place of worship. Things come to an impasse when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object. When it's an unstoppable force against a bunch of old men and their immediate family, well, I'll let you confer what the outcome will be.
hey charles if you would like we could add your picture next to your dad and his masand friends for the next protest lol
hey charles if you would like we could add your picture next to your dad and his masand friends for the next protest lol
To 'Anonymous' – So you think I am involved with the GOR's Executive Committee, or for that matter, one of their sons…If that is the kind of information that you have, no wonder you keep losing in court. I would get MUCH better sources if I was you.
To 'Anonymous' – So you think I am involved with the GOR's Executive Committee, or for that matter, one of their sons…If that is the kind of information that you have, no wonder you keep losing in court. I would get MUCH better sources if I was you.
Paramjeet Singh – You may THINK you know who I am…but I KNOW who you are….So laugh it up all you want.
Paramjeet Singh – You may THINK you know who I am…but I KNOW who you are….So laugh it up all you want.
ATTENTION SIKH COMMUNITY
Charles Knuckles and his fellow committee friends are selling you lies about the situation at hand. heck the guy supports banning Kirpans at a Gurdwara where Sikhs belong. How wrong is that? and I can write an essay regarding the lies Charles knuckles and his friends have given to the Sikh community. but to ease the burden on you I will try make my response short and straight.
1. Kirpans have been banned and pictures have been shown that "amritdhari" Sikhs like Charles can wear necklaces with the 1" kirpans to avoid violence in rochester gurdwara but the fact is they have lied to the judge that kirpan causes violence and ultimately death at gurdwara.
2. there are 2 amritdhari sikhs that are involved in the court case. One defendant is very old and can barely walk but still have enough strength to fight these criminals.
3. "The first person, is a failed father that could not inspire his own children to marry Sikhs." neither of the committee members even tried to get their kids to marry sikhs or even keep their sikh identity heck they have lost respect for themselves and cut their hair
4. "The second person, is a convicted felon who was charged and convicted of breaking US Immigration Laws. He runs a restaurant where he sells meat and alcohol for profit…Not exactly what would be considered honorable actions for a supposed Amritdhari."
he never claimed he was amritdhari, and neither has he said not to eat meat nor sell alcohol. He's speaking against the injustice against amritdhari sikhs and I personally see nothing wrong with that And I highly doubt he is a khalistani terrorist so we will cut that out since there is minimal proof behind that. Thats like me saying your uncle is osama bin laden and I have filed a report with department of homeland security.
"The last insurgent is the above person’s son. This boy LIED on court documents stating that he was a student and falsified most of his deposition given to the New York Supreme Court. "
He gave proof, you saw the documents yourself, don't play games.
To all: We have officially made progress. the lawyers of these plaintiffs have allowed kirpans from 1.5" to 4-6" so we have won the battle partially, with the help of the media we have been successful, But the battle is yet from over
Here are our demands from the sikh sangat
1. Proper Elections be held and the members be actively participants in the gurdwara.
2. The freedom to teach Sikhism to our children accord to guru granth sahib AND no limitations placed by committee.
3. No limitations placed on Katha and Kirtan.
4. The ability to wear the kirpan without any discrimination from the committee, We are still confused of why you are scared, please your embarrassing us Sikhs
I refuse to let you keep running your business, I will continue to keep fighting for a proper gurdwara and urge the sikh sangat to support us and other on going battles against these kinds of people. This is just wrong. I WILL back off if you change the name of your business from gurdwara of rochester to Indian country club ( whatever you want to name it) and remove the guru granth sahib RESPECTFULLY from the gurdwara.
ATTENTION SIKH COMMUNITY
Charles Knuckles and his fellow committee friends are selling you lies about the situation at hand. heck the guy supports banning Kirpans at a Gurdwara where Sikhs belong. How wrong is that? and I can write an essay regarding the lies Charles knuckles and his friends have given to the Sikh community. but to ease the burden on you I will try make my response short and straight.
1. Kirpans have been banned and pictures have been shown that "amritdhari" Sikhs like Charles can wear necklaces with the 1" kirpans to avoid violence in rochester gurdwara but the fact is they have lied to the judge that kirpan causes violence and ultimately death at gurdwara.
2. there are 2 amritdhari sikhs that are involved in the court case. One defendant is very old and can barely walk but still have enough strength to fight these criminals.
3. "The first person, is a failed father that could not inspire his own children to marry Sikhs." neither of the committee members even tried to get their kids to marry sikhs or even keep their sikh identity heck they have lost respect for themselves and cut their hair
4. "The second person, is a convicted felon who was charged and convicted of breaking US Immigration Laws. He runs a restaurant where he sells meat and alcohol for profit…Not exactly what would be considered honorable actions for a supposed Amritdhari."
he never claimed he was amritdhari, and neither has he said not to eat meat nor sell alcohol. He's speaking against the injustice against amritdhari sikhs and I personally see nothing wrong with that And I highly doubt he is a khalistani terrorist so we will cut that out since there is minimal proof behind that. Thats like me saying your uncle is osama bin laden and I have filed a report with department of homeland security.
"The last insurgent is the above person’s son. This boy LIED on court documents stating that he was a student and falsified most of his deposition given to the New York Supreme Court. "
He gave proof, you saw the documents yourself, don't play games.
To all: We have officially made progress. the lawyers of these plaintiffs have allowed kirpans from 1.5" to 4-6" so we have won the battle partially, with the help of the media we have been successful, But the battle is yet from over
Here are our demands from the sikh sangat
1. Proper Elections be held and the members be actively participants in the gurdwara.
2. The freedom to teach Sikhism to our children accord to guru granth sahib AND no limitations placed by committee.
3. No limitations placed on Katha and Kirtan.
4. The ability to wear the kirpan without any discrimination from the committee, We are still confused of why you are scared, please your embarrassing us Sikhs
I refuse to let you keep running your business, I will continue to keep fighting for a proper gurdwara and urge the sikh sangat to support us and other on going battles against these kinds of people. This is just wrong. I WILL back off if you change the name of your business from gurdwara of rochester to Indian country club ( whatever you want to name it) and remove the guru granth sahib RESPECTFULLY from the gurdwara.
What difference does it make Mr. Charles Knuckles wheather you are one of the Masands or their son supporting their evil deeds. You all are in the same boat with holes.
What difference does it make Mr. Charles Knuckles wheather you are one of the Masands or their son supporting their evil deeds. You all are in the same boat with holes.
@Arguments above
Long live Sikhi – the great tribal religion
"Keep away from my tree of worship till you get your nose pierced with a genuine hippopotamus bone"
"Just because you captured a rabid elephant does not give you any right to dictate what I should wear, eat or do"
"Guys, look those iron-monsters are cutting down all trees in the forest, run"
@Arguments above
Long live Sikhi – the great tribal religion
"Keep away from my tree of worship till you get your nose pierced with a genuine hippopotamus bone"
"Just because you captured a rabid elephant does not give you any right to dictate what I should wear, eat or do"
"Guys, look those iron-monsters are cutting down all trees in the forest, run"
charles knuckles and his friends seem to part of the RSS
charles knuckles and his friends seem to part of the RSS
To the Sikh Community:
There has been much untruth told regarding this case against a small group of insurgent/fundamentalist Sikhs that have been banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester.
Each person can believe what they want to believe. However, evidence and affidavits have been presented to the New York State Supreme Court and an impartial judge made a judgment based on this evidence and based what the judge considered a public safety hazard.
The GOR committee brought a court case against 4 Sikhs, and their families, because they were openly vulgar, openly abusive, and acted to undermine the Elected Trustees and associated Committees of the GOR. These insurgents were disrupting services openly and in a vulgar manner in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib. These people were not bringing Kirpans, but were bringing (and brandishing) long swords in an attempt to intimidate Committee members, their families, and other members of the GOR Sangat. The insurgents resorted to these methods because they lost open elections in the Gurdwara by a 2:1 margin and could not accept that their fundamentalist views were in the minority within the Sangat.
Evidence of the violent nature of these insurgents was presented in open court. Evidence included but was not limited to:
1)Video surveillance of Makhan Singh openly, and violently, challenging the New York Supreme Court judge in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib.
2)Pictures of Makhan Singh’s son, from his Facebook page, posing with a brandished Kirpan in a violent and non-defensive manner.
3)Pictures of Parminder Soch brandishing a 2 ½ foot sword inside of the Gurdwara.
This evidence was available for the defendants to challenge but they could not defend their own actions that were caught on film and tape. Additionally, the affidavits submitted by Makhan Singh’s son claimed that he was a medical student when in fact he was not any kind of student at all. This, of course, did not help the already low credibility of the defendants. Makhan Singh, of course, was already a convicted felon and criminal at the time of these proceedings.
In court documents presented by the GOR, it was suggested that long swords were not needed in the Gurdwara and that many Sikhs, in the United States, wear small symbolic kirpans. The General Secretary of the GOR specifically requested to the Judge, that Kirpans, up to 6 inches, should be allowed in the GOR.
The judge acted to ban all Kirpans, based on the actions of a few disruptive people, and did not understand the cultural impact of doing so. Since then, the GOR has acted to have the judge revise the ruling to allow 6 inch Kirpans. This was not done out of community pressure, but was done to correct something in the original ruling that the Judge did not understand.
The GOR has been under siege for many years by fundamentalist groups from Buffalo and Syracuse trying to take over this Gurdwara. The GOR decided that they are no longer going to tolerate the hostile activities of Fundamental Sikhs and moved to have this Gurdwara placed under Article 9. This makes the GOR private property and allows the GOR to remove disruptive or violent people in order to protect the vast majority of the Sangat.
The insurgents and their supporters are resorting to using skewed facts to bring public pressure on the GOR. However, the GOR knows that this case is going to be settled in the New York Supreme Court and not in the court of public opinion. As much as I have requested that the GOR release some statements to the Sikh community, the GOR has insisted on being silent because there are still open items that need to be resolved in court. In short, they will not make any official statements until all litigation proceedings are concluded.
I have made some very harsh statements. However, the truth of the matter is that my overall message, as harsh as it is, does represent a truthful point of view.
Everyone: Sikh, Indian, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester. They have been welcomed from the first gatherings of the GOR at the Ashram in the yearly 70’s. However, if people choose to be disruptive, violent, or indecent at the GOR, especially in the presence of the Guru Garnth Sahib, they will be asked to leave and worship someplace else.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
To the Sikh Community:
There has been much untruth told regarding this case against a small group of insurgent/fundamentalist Sikhs that have been banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester.
Each person can believe what they want to believe. However, evidence and affidavits have been presented to the New York State Supreme Court and an impartial judge made a judgment based on this evidence and based what the judge considered a public safety hazard.
The GOR committee brought a court case against 4 Sikhs, and their families, because they were openly vulgar, openly abusive, and acted to undermine the Elected Trustees and associated Committees of the GOR. These insurgents were disrupting services openly and in a vulgar manner in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib. These people were not bringing Kirpans, but were bringing (and brandishing) long swords in an attempt to intimidate Committee members, their families, and other members of the GOR Sangat. The insurgents resorted to these methods because they lost open elections in the Gurdwara by a 2:1 margin and could not accept that their fundamentalist views were in the minority within the Sangat.
Evidence of the violent nature of these insurgents was presented in open court. Evidence included but was not limited to:
1)Video surveillance of Makhan Singh openly, and violently, challenging the New York Supreme Court judge in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib.
2)Pictures of Makhan Singh’s son, from his Facebook page, posing with a brandished Kirpan in a violent and non-defensive manner.
3)Pictures of Parminder Soch brandishing a 2 ½ foot sword inside of the Gurdwara.
This evidence was available for the defendants to challenge but they could not defend their own actions that were caught on film and tape. Additionally, the affidavits submitted by Makhan Singh’s son claimed that he was a medical student when in fact he was not any kind of student at all. This, of course, did not help the already low credibility of the defendants. Makhan Singh, of course, was already a convicted felon and criminal at the time of these proceedings.
In court documents presented by the GOR, it was suggested that long swords were not needed in the Gurdwara and that many Sikhs, in the United States, wear small symbolic kirpans. The General Secretary of the GOR specifically requested to the Judge, that Kirpans, up to 6 inches, should be allowed in the GOR.
The judge acted to ban all Kirpans, based on the actions of a few disruptive people, and did not understand the cultural impact of doing so. Since then, the GOR has acted to have the judge revise the ruling to allow 6 inch Kirpans. This was not done out of community pressure, but was done to correct something in the original ruling that the Judge did not understand.
The GOR has been under siege for many years by fundamentalist groups from Buffalo and Syracuse trying to take over this Gurdwara. The GOR decided that they are no longer going to tolerate the hostile activities of Fundamental Sikhs and moved to have this Gurdwara placed under Article 9. This makes the GOR private property and allows the GOR to remove disruptive or violent people in order to protect the vast majority of the Sangat.
The insurgents and their supporters are resorting to using skewed facts to bring public pressure on the GOR. However, the GOR knows that this case is going to be settled in the New York Supreme Court and not in the court of public opinion. As much as I have requested that the GOR release some statements to the Sikh community, the GOR has insisted on being silent because there are still open items that need to be resolved in court. In short, they will not make any official statements until all litigation proceedings are concluded.
I have made some very harsh statements. However, the truth of the matter is that my overall message, as harsh as it is, does represent a truthful point of view.
Everyone: Sikh, Indian, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester. They have been welcomed from the first gatherings of the GOR at the Ashram in the yearly 70’s. However, if people choose to be disruptive, violent, or indecent at the GOR, especially in the presence of the Guru Garnth Sahib, they will be asked to leave and worship someplace else.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
this is completely false the video of makhan singh he was asking the trustees why they are not following the constition…the pic from facebook was from a play…sochs picture was from turban day in which the truste Chana too had the same sword in his hand just like everyone there for pics.Makhans son is a medical student at UB the majority of the sangat is aganit u…everytime there is a proteest it is just u and ur family and a few hindus in the the gurdwara and all the sikh sangat is outside….as far as the elections local sangat memebers were not allowed to vote when ur family and friends from other countries were…get ur facts straight
this is completely false the video of makhan singh he was asking the trustees why they are not following the constition…the pic from facebook was from a play…sochs picture was from turban day in which the truste Chana too had the same sword in his hand just like everyone there for pics.Makhans son is a medical student at UB the majority of the sangat is aganit u…everytime there is a proteest it is just u and ur family and a few hindus in the the gurdwara and all the sikh sangat is outside….as far as the elections local sangat memebers were not allowed to vote when ur family and friends from other countries were…get ur facts straight
i was there when makhan singh was asking the trustee about their wrong doings…yes it was a lil loud but he never swore or threatened anyone…he just asked the trustees to follow the constitution and stop their ill doings…I was also there for turban day and everyone from lil kids to elders and the trustees were holding long swords to get their pictures taken and Ajay Singh is a student…and sangat is with Sardar Makhan and Soch Singh..IF you dont believe this go to the gurdwara and see for yourself on who is in the gurdwara.
i was there when makhan singh was asking the trustee about their wrong doings…yes it was a lil loud but he never swore or threatened anyone…he just asked the trustees to follow the constitution and stop their ill doings…I was also there for turban day and everyone from lil kids to elders and the trustees were holding long swords to get their pictures taken and Ajay Singh is a student…and sangat is with Sardar Makhan and Soch Singh..IF you dont believe this go to the gurdwara and see for yourself on who is in the gurdwara.
Charles, I requested you nicely to stop playing games, I am asking you now, as directly as possible, stop playing games with us and selling us "truth". You lied to the judge with the evidence given, claiming that the Kirpan was a safety hazard AND you gave him evidence that Sikhs don't need Kirpans by giving him a necklace. Why would you come here and lie to us that you didn't ask for kirpan ban. Stop trying to manipulate us, We aren't dumb.
You can label us insurgents or fundamentalists, whatever you want to call us, we want Sikhs to follow our guru not the teachings of badesha (committee), we didn't require you to do anything else. Don't be a fool the situation is overly bloated, your bringing in different arguments that are irrelevant, such as Ajaypal being a student or not, Parminder brandishing a 2' sword in the gurdwara (It was an event and even Chana (committee) took out and brandished the same sword) and even makhan singh in the video, If you understood punjabi you would understand that the Rochester sangat demanded where the funds of the Gurdwara went and your sly committee friends just sat their and ignored the question. (there were other questions asked, if you need translation assistance please ask)
"The insurgents resorted to these methods because they lost open elections in the Gurdwara by a 2:1 margin and could not accept that their fundamentalist views were in the minority within the Sangat."
I didn't know your relatives in England and India were considered "sangat" when they haven't been to gurdwara of Rochester in years. You say that your relatives paid their "dues" but when we want someone in Rochester to become a member and give proper ID (passport/drivers ID) we get denied.
It's obvious that you don't want us in your business venture, You want your gurdwara to run at a profit and its understandable that you dont want the sangat involved in gurdwara and put the gurdwara under article 9. where it is your "private property". We understand you dont trust us because we want to practice sikhism at gurdwara but we also understand its hard for you guys to practice sikhi and practice your watered down version of sikhi by banning katha, ignoring the rehat maryada and limiting kirtan for kids and even ignoring your own constitution ( ps thats why we are angry, not the elections, we thought it was obvious) You saw us as a threat and were afraid that one day Sikhism would be practiced on your property, putting the "gurdwara" under article 9 also gave you the power to stop the sangat from VOTING, so now the gurdwara will pass down in the committee families from generation to generation creating the ideal family business for you guys.
Charles, I requested you nicely to stop playing games, I am asking you now, as directly as possible, stop playing games with us and selling us "truth". You lied to the judge with the evidence given, claiming that the Kirpan was a safety hazard AND you gave him evidence that Sikhs don't need Kirpans by giving him a necklace. Why would you come here and lie to us that you didn't ask for kirpan ban. Stop trying to manipulate us, We aren't dumb.
You can label us insurgents or fundamentalists, whatever you want to call us, we want Sikhs to follow our guru not the teachings of badesha (committee), we didn't require you to do anything else. Don't be a fool the situation is overly bloated, your bringing in different arguments that are irrelevant, such as Ajaypal being a student or not, Parminder brandishing a 2' sword in the gurdwara (It was an event and even Chana (committee) took out and brandished the same sword) and even makhan singh in the video, If you understood punjabi you would understand that the Rochester sangat demanded where the funds of the Gurdwara went and your sly committee friends just sat their and ignored the question. (there were other questions asked, if you need translation assistance please ask)
"The insurgents resorted to these methods because they lost open elections in the Gurdwara by a 2:1 margin and could not accept that their fundamentalist views were in the minority within the Sangat."
I didn't know your relatives in England and India were considered "sangat" when they haven't been to gurdwara of Rochester in years. You say that your relatives paid their "dues" but when we want someone in Rochester to become a member and give proper ID (passport/drivers ID) we get denied.
It's obvious that you don't want us in your business venture, You want your gurdwara to run at a profit and its understandable that you dont want the sangat involved in gurdwara and put the gurdwara under article 9. where it is your "private property". We understand you dont trust us because we want to practice sikhism at gurdwara but we also understand its hard for you guys to practice sikhi and practice your watered down version of sikhi by banning katha, ignoring the rehat maryada and limiting kirtan for kids and even ignoring your own constitution ( ps thats why we are angry, not the elections, we thought it was obvious) You saw us as a threat and were afraid that one day Sikhism would be practiced on your property, putting the "gurdwara" under article 9 also gave you the power to stop the sangat from VOTING, so now the gurdwara will pass down in the committee families from generation to generation creating the ideal family business for you guys.
I am writing a business plan for a gurudwara.
Looking for experienced management team – prior success in positive bottomline a must. Please let me know and I will send you my personal email id. Good salary + equity compensation assured. Incentives linked to achievement of milestones.
Also looking for investors – angel or venture groups. Assured returns – no gurudwara has gone out of business and all macroeconomic trends are positive. We'll revolutionize the gurudwara business using lobbyists from military-industrial complex, use web 2.0 technologies to target new audiences and hire marketing strategists from the likes of tobacco and food industry. Ping me if you are interested. Convertible debt and equity options available.
I am writing a business plan for a gurudwara.
Looking for experienced management team – prior success in positive bottomline a must. Please let me know and I will send you my personal email id. Good salary + equity compensation assured. Incentives linked to achievement of milestones.
Also looking for investors – angel or venture groups. Assured returns – no gurudwara has gone out of business and all macroeconomic trends are positive. We'll revolutionize the gurudwara business using lobbyists from military-industrial complex, use web 2.0 technologies to target new audiences and hire marketing strategists from the likes of tobacco and food industry. Ping me if you are interested. Convertible debt and equity options available.
Jaskirat Singh – The 'truth' as you call it is subjective. All I know is that the law (New York Supreme Court) is on the side of the GOR. If the GOR submitted false evidence, as you claim, then the defendants did not have any evidence to support their 'truth'.
Your insurgency can twist the 'truth' all you want…Your insurgency can hold all the protests they want…Your insurgency can lie to the outside Sikh community to garner public sympathy…
Bottom Line: The law, under God, is on the side of the GOR.
The True Founders of the Gurdwara of Rochester – the ones who assembled the community, donated the financial resources to build the Gurdwara, sponsored fund raising activities within the community, and gave more Seva than all of the Insurgents put together – are sitting in the comfort of the Gurdwara of Rochester while the insurgents have to import people, from other cities, states, and countries, to sit out in the rain.
Lying pigs like you deserve to sit in the mud. Personally I can't wait until winter…We will see how strong your faith is when there is 3 feet of snow outside.
Jaskirat Singh – The 'truth' as you call it is subjective. All I know is that the law (New York Supreme Court) is on the side of the GOR. If the GOR submitted false evidence, as you claim, then the defendants did not have any evidence to support their 'truth'.
Your insurgency can twist the 'truth' all you want…Your insurgency can hold all the protests they want…Your insurgency can lie to the outside Sikh community to garner public sympathy…
Bottom Line: The law, under God, is on the side of the GOR.
The True Founders of the Gurdwara of Rochester – the ones who assembled the community, donated the financial resources to build the Gurdwara, sponsored fund raising activities within the community, and gave more Seva than all of the Insurgents put together – are sitting in the comfort of the Gurdwara of Rochester while the insurgents have to import people, from other cities, states, and countries, to sit out in the rain.
Lying pigs like you deserve to sit in the mud. Personally I can't wait until winter…We will see how strong your faith is when there is 3 feet of snow outside.
for the last time stop lying to yourself and others..You completely lied to the court, you called amritdharis insurgents, you said Sardar Makhan Singh was threatening you in the video, Soch and Ajay Singh were brandishing swords to intimidate you.You said there was no need to a kirpan, you said this group tried to create violence…Then they proved that Sardar Makhan Singh was just calling you guys out on your unethical actions, which you guys had no answer to…The picture was taken from Ajay Facebook when you had told the court the picture was taken at the gurdwara and when it can was proved that it wasnt , you guys changed your statement…sardar Parminder Singh Sochs picture with the word was from turban day and even the trustee was holding that size sword..You presented the court with article in which they talked about violence in gurdwaras to make these individuals fighting for their sangat as insurgents. I can guarantee the sanagt has contrbuited more that your friends and if you want to prove me wrong show the court your financial statements, which you so far have not been able to do.As far as the seva all i have seen is you guys violate almost everything that should be done in a gurdwara..You guys barely ever hvae your heads covered, sit on chairs to eat langar, give your friends chairs to sit on in the worship hall in front of the guru grath sahib(these were not old or handcapped people, just your special friends).When asked why you would put chairs for your hindu friends while the sikhs sat on the floor in the worship hall…You guys said..the whole point is to enjoj kirtan and it doesnt matter if that done sitting on the chair or flooor.You guys banned katha, kirtan to children, told people their could not talk about the outter apperance of a sikh..You guys are a shame to society not just to sikhs.There are so many more examples i have of your sewa and if you keep lying i will mkention those as well.as far as the protest i can guarentee that you will see us even if there is 6 feet of snow…but we might not see you come to the gurdwara juding from the past where the gurdwara is closed on sundays when the wheather isnt so great… i can also guarentee that one day the gurdwara will be free from u Mahants!!!!!
for the last time stop lying to yourself and others..You completely lied to the court, you called amritdharis insurgents, you said Sardar Makhan Singh was threatening you in the video, Soch and Ajay Singh were brandishing swords to intimidate you.You said there was no need to a kirpan, you said this group tried to create violence…Then they proved that Sardar Makhan Singh was just calling you guys out on your unethical actions, which you guys had no answer to…The picture was taken from Ajay Facebook when you had told the court the picture was taken at the gurdwara and when it can was proved that it wasnt , you guys changed your statement…sardar Parminder Singh Sochs picture with the word was from turban day and even the trustee was holding that size sword..You presented the court with article in which they talked about violence in gurdwaras to make these individuals fighting for their sangat as insurgents. I can guarantee the sanagt has contrbuited more that your friends and if you want to prove me wrong show the court your financial statements, which you so far have not been able to do.As far as the seva all i have seen is you guys violate almost everything that should be done in a gurdwara..You guys barely ever hvae your heads covered, sit on chairs to eat langar, give your friends chairs to sit on in the worship hall in front of the guru grath sahib(these were not old or handcapped people, just your special friends).When asked why you would put chairs for your hindu friends while the sikhs sat on the floor in the worship hall…You guys said..the whole point is to enjoj kirtan and it doesnt matter if that done sitting on the chair or flooor.You guys banned katha, kirtan to children, told people their could not talk about the outter apperance of a sikh..You guys are a shame to society not just to sikhs.There are so many more examples i have of your sewa and if you keep lying i will mkention those as well.as far as the protest i can guarentee that you will see us even if there is 6 feet of snow…but we might not see you come to the gurdwara juding from the past where the gurdwara is closed on sundays when the wheather isnt so great… i can also guarentee that one day the gurdwara will be free from u Mahants!!!!!
singh1- You must have some unearthly influence over you because your stupidity, cowardice, and ignorance knows no earthly bounds.
If you believe the GOR Trustees told lies in court, why is it your ‘truth’ is so unbelievable to an impartial judge and court? Certainly you and your insurgent defendants had a turn to present evidence. How is it your twisted facts, half truths, and criminal histories held NO CREDIBILITY in court?
You and your fundamentalist / Insurgent organization only became involved with the GOR AFTER all the hard work, which took decades, was done by the founding Trustees.
As I mentioned: Everyone: Sikh, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester to listen to Kirtan and establish their own relationship with the Guru. Everyone has been welcomed from the first gatherings of the GOR at the Ashram in the yearly 70’s.
Of course, you would not know ANY OF THIS because you and your Insurgent friends were still scooping cow crap in a field somewhere in Northern India when the GOR was being built off of the sheer determination and devotion of the Founding Trustees.
For some reason, you and your insurgent pals step off of an airplane and think that your interpretation of Sikhism is better everyone else’s. Additionally you think that the GOR belongs to you because you voluntarily donate $1 every week….You donations don’t even keep the heat on in the GOR.
You and your insurgent fundamentalist Popcorn co-defendant Sikhs ARE FOOLS with very little under you turbans. This matter has, and will, be settled in court. Trying to reason with low IQ, ignorant, country-bumpkin Sikhs like you is a total waste of time and energy.
Enjoy your protests in the snow…We will be nice and warm with the blessings of the Guru and the Supreme Court of New York inside the GOR.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
singh1- You must have some unearthly influence over you because your stupidity, cowardice, and ignorance knows no earthly bounds.
If you believe the GOR Trustees told lies in court, why is it your ‘truth’ is so unbelievable to an impartial judge and court? Certainly you and your insurgent defendants had a turn to present evidence. How is it your twisted facts, half truths, and criminal histories held NO CREDIBILITY in court?
You and your fundamentalist / Insurgent organization only became involved with the GOR AFTER all the hard work, which took decades, was done by the founding Trustees.
As I mentioned: Everyone: Sikh, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester to listen to Kirtan and establish their own relationship with the Guru. Everyone has been welcomed from the first gatherings of the GOR at the Ashram in the yearly 70’s.
Of course, you would not know ANY OF THIS because you and your Insurgent friends were still scooping cow crap in a field somewhere in Northern India when the GOR was being built off of the sheer determination and devotion of the Founding Trustees.
For some reason, you and your insurgent pals step off of an airplane and think that your interpretation of Sikhism is better everyone else’s. Additionally you think that the GOR belongs to you because you voluntarily donate $1 every week….You donations don’t even keep the heat on in the GOR.
You and your insurgent fundamentalist Popcorn co-defendant Sikhs ARE FOOLS with very little under you turbans. This matter has, and will, be settled in court. Trying to reason with low IQ, ignorant, country-bumpkin Sikhs like you is a total waste of time and energy.
Enjoy your protests in the snow…We will be nice and warm with the blessings of the Guru and the Supreme Court of New York inside the GOR.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
all i can see from all this that the gurdwara is taken over by the trustees and i cant believe that they alone contributed to have it built…if they can prove that they put all the funds and are the only ones that do sewa they can say its is theirs…but the truth is that it was built from the funds and sewa of the sangat so turning it into article 9 is just wrong and the way charlesknuckles writes shows that they are guilty or committing this crime and now are just making up excuses and yes the court will rule against them…they cant even provide half the documents that were asked for.
all i can see from all this that the gurdwara is taken over by the trustees and i cant believe that they alone contributed to have it built…if they can prove that they put all the funds and are the only ones that do sewa they can say its is theirs…but the truth is that it was built from the funds and sewa of the sangat so turning it into article 9 is just wrong and the way charlesknuckles writes shows that they are guilty or committing this crime and now are just making up excuses and yes the court will rule against them…they cant even provide half the documents that were asked for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5IDG8dR3zE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWV3l6psuwU&fe…
these guys are deff part of RSS no sikh could do this…..Hindus in disguise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5IDG8dR3zE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWV3l6psuwU&fe…
these guys are deff part of RSS no sikh could do this…..Hindus in disguise
"Board members of the Gurdwara say, THEY HAVE NO COMMENT" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLl70V_GVYU
"Board members of the Gurdwara say, THEY HAVE NO COMMENT" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLl70V_GVYU
somail – You obviously have no clue about the history of the GOR….How it was started, who was responsible, who contributed personal funds to complete the original building, etc….All you know of is the finished product that the Insurgent Wahhabi Sikhs failed to take over through strong-arm tactics.
By the comments stated by you, singh1, Jaskirat Singh, khalsa, Jatinder Singh, Paramjeet Singh, vsingh, or SSingh were even remotely true, (that the GOR presented false evidence in court), Why were you not able to prove your side of the case in Court?
I'll tell you why: Because the Insurgents have no credible evidence, no defense, or any personal credibility. The GOR presented evidence, the Insurgents couldn't defend their actions that was shown on video or photo. The judge saw enough credible evidence, from the GOR, to make a ruling.
Have fun protesting in the snow.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
somail – You obviously have no clue about the history of the GOR….How it was started, who was responsible, who contributed personal funds to complete the original building, etc….All you know of is the finished product that the Insurgent Wahhabi Sikhs failed to take over through strong-arm tactics.
By the comments stated by you, singh1, Jaskirat Singh, khalsa, Jatinder Singh, Paramjeet Singh, vsingh, or SSingh were even remotely true, (that the GOR presented false evidence in court), Why were you not able to prove your side of the case in Court?
I'll tell you why: Because the Insurgents have no credible evidence, no defense, or any personal credibility. The GOR presented evidence, the Insurgents couldn't defend their actions that was shown on video or photo. The judge saw enough credible evidence, from the GOR, to make a ruling.
Have fun protesting in the snow.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Dude the case hsngt even started yet all you got is an injunction becuase you guys told the judge you feared your lives and that amrithdharis would cause violence with their swords..That was for your saftey and the court will now see the truth and please send all the evidence to the court even if it is a burden for you to show..oh wait thats what you said when you couldnt present the court with multiple articles including the financial statements of the Gurdwara.
Dude the case hsngt even started yet all you got is an injunction becuase you guys told the judge you feared your lives and that amrithdharis would cause violence with their swords..That was for your saftey and the court will now see the truth and please send all the evidence to the court even if it is a burden for you to show..oh wait thats what you said when you couldnt present the court with multiple articles including the financial statements of the Gurdwara.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4ZACNkmrk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4ZACNkmrk
http://www.youtube.com/user/AkalPurakh1#p/a/u/0/m…
http://www.youtube.com/user/AkalPurakh1#p/a/u/0/m…
dont worry these manmukhs will be removed from power and even then we will invite them to attened the gurdwara services in hope that they could actually learn something but due to that reason they probabaly wont ever show up again
dont worry these manmukhs will be removed from power and even then we will invite them to attened the gurdwara services in hope that they could actually learn something but due to that reason they probabaly wont ever show up again
Charles Knuckles you may think that the latest video on youtube is edited but you are wrong the video is telling the truth behind your lies. Also you were there when that argument took place.
Charles Knuckles you may think that the latest video on youtube is edited but you are wrong the video is telling the truth behind your lies. Also you were there when that argument took place.
khalsa84 – I was not there….but I would say it looks heavily edited. Perhaps you can convince your Minister of Propaganda to release the ENTIRE video…unedited.
Of course there is a laundry list of excuses on why he won't….
khalsa84 – I was not there….but I would say it looks heavily edited. Perhaps you can convince your Minister of Propaganda to release the ENTIRE video…unedited.
Of course there is a laundry list of excuses on why he won't….
singh1 – The courts have spoken…Your insurgency has nothing to stem the tide of Justice Under God. The problem is that you guys have little to nothing under your turbans to understand that.
Here is some advice for you and your Taliban-Sikh pals: According to the newspaper, there is a 30%-40% chance of showers on Sunday with a temp of only 65 degrees. Make sure you and your Wahhabi-Sikh Clan dress warm and bring umbrellas to your little protest. Also, wrap your signs in Saran Wrap so their colors don't run….Your going to need those signs for a LONG time…
Have Fun and don't let your Kaccha get into a bunch.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
singh1 – The courts have spoken…Your insurgency has nothing to stem the tide of Justice Under God. The problem is that you guys have little to nothing under your turbans to understand that.
Here is some advice for you and your Taliban-Sikh pals: According to the newspaper, there is a 30%-40% chance of showers on Sunday with a temp of only 65 degrees. Make sure you and your Wahhabi-Sikh Clan dress warm and bring umbrellas to your little protest. Also, wrap your signs in Saran Wrap so their colors don't run….Your going to need those signs for a LONG time…
Have Fun and don't let your Kaccha get into a bunch.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
i hope you come out and enjoy the protest with us and just wait and see the same court will throw you guys out like the trash that you are!!!
i hope you come out and enjoy the protest with us and just wait and see the same court will throw you guys out like the trash that you are!!!
To celebrate our victory against these insurgent Sikhs we are hosting a party at the Sikh country club of Rochester also known as Gurdwara of Rochester on Saturday night, we will be doing bhangra and having a nice time without these wannabe amritdhari sikhs. We will also be watching movies such as the hangover, do some kirtan. There will be langar and some drinks. Alcohol will be provided since it cant be a party without it. Everyone: Sikh, Indian, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester. Since this will be a large gathering we will be taking donations, and urge you to donate to us. It will also help us attack wannabe sikhs who tell us to grow hair, stop drinking and hold elections. Gurdwara of rochester is a private property under article 9. The court even backed us up, now its time to party!
To celebrate our victory against these insurgent Sikhs we are hosting a party at the Sikh country club of Rochester also known as Gurdwara of Rochester on Saturday night, we will be doing bhangra and having a nice time without these wannabe amritdhari sikhs. We will also be watching movies such as the hangover, do some kirtan. There will be langar and some drinks. Alcohol will be provided since it cant be a party without it. Everyone: Sikh, Indian, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester. Since this will be a large gathering we will be taking donations, and urge you to donate to us. It will also help us attack wannabe sikhs who tell us to grow hair, stop drinking and hold elections. Gurdwara of rochester is a private property under article 9. The court even backed us up, now its time to party!
offically change the name to the country club and respectfully remove the guru granth sabih and you would not be bother and its not a surprise that you would do that…but thanks for letting everyone know that the brain under your xerox hat is much smaller than the one under our turbans
offically change the name to the country club and respectfully remove the guru granth sabih and you would not be bother and its not a surprise that you would do that…but thanks for letting everyone know that the brain under your xerox hat is much smaller than the one under our turbans