Amritdharis Banned from Gurdwara in Rochester
Throughout the weekend, numerous reports have been circulating throughout the Punjabi language press of a ban being enforced by the management committee of a Gurdwara in Rochester, NY. We have received a large number of emails with regards to the matter (Pagh Salute: Balmeet Singh). Various press reports suggest a local power dispute was largely the cause, where one group suggested that the Gurdwara was their ‘private property.’ Subsequently they have rejected that the Sangat is supreme and have thus attempted to gain a court-order ban on attendance by Amritdhari Singhs and Singhnis. Details are still rather sketchy, hopefully locals can give us some perspective.
Numerous commentaries can be viewed on youtube. The topic has been the discussion on various Punjabi language radio shows. A vigorous conversation within the community is occurring. One video has pictures that suggested there was a protest last week.
Looking for historical parallels, many groups are calling this group of so-called ‘owners’ – ‘mahants’ recalling the vocabulary during the Gurdwara Morcha movement in the early part of the 20th century. What do our Langar-readers suggest as the correct course of action? Granted, the Gurdwara in question (that of Rochester, NY) is not a historical Gurdwara. Should Singhs and Kaurs in the community attempt to press the committee to rescind its decision or would it be better to open another Gurdwara in the area, one where the Sangat truly is supreme? Are there other options?
180 Responses to “Amritdharis Banned from Gurdwara in Rochester”
Why do Sikhs still need to invade Gurudwaras for spiritual salvation is beyond me.
Gurudwaras in foreign lands hae become the Sikh versions of clubs, established by wannabes to display and exert power and gain prestige from peers, in a society which otherwise doesn’t even notice their existence.
Why do Sikhs still need to invade Gurudwaras for spiritual salvation is beyond me.
Gurudwaras in foreign lands hae become the Sikh versions of clubs, established by wannabes to display and exert power and gain prestige from peers, in a society which otherwise doesn’t even notice their existence.
To me this looks like a personal dispute between a few people that has taken an communal overtone. While at one level I agree with the points raise by Karimul and iSingh, I would like to respectfully offer another approach.
Our Gurus intended the Gurudwara not just as an abode for the Divine but also as a meeting place where the sangat can meet, help each other and exchange ideas. Think about what we are doing right now at the "Langar Hall" virtually. So in that light the langar hall in a traditional, physical gurudwara should also be a point were opposing views are heard and disputes resolved amicably. By building a new Gurudwara or by boycotting it we would be just running away from the problem.
"Sura so pehchaniye jo lade deen ke het, purja purja kat mare kabhoo na chode khet"
A real warrior is one who fights for the downtrodden
And would rather die a thousand cuts, than run away from the field
That said, the "battles" today are not the physical kinds where we are fighting oppression, where someone is trying to kill us. But there are still battles, of our minds, of your psyche, of what our faith means to us, of what is moral and just. Someone said that a pen is mightier than the sword. I would say our Keyboards
are mightier than the swords, infact they are swords. Now coming to the point on "employing all strategem for solving this problem"
Have the two opposing parties been sat down in a room, maybe even outside the Gurudwara, with an objective and independent mediator to listen to grievances on both sides?
Have there been any petitions signed by the Sangat and submitted to the local governing authorities that detail our faith and the dispute, while also suggesting solutions?
Has any investigation been done to figure out what led to this decision in the first place?
I'm just saying, lets find the facts before we start judging people and getting all worked up. There is a dispute, lets find the cause before we can figure out a solution.
To me this looks like a personal dispute between a few people that has taken an communal overtone. While at one level I agree with the points raise by Karimul and iSingh, I would like to respectfully offer another approach.
Our Gurus intended the Gurudwara not just as an abode for the Divine but also as a meeting place where the sangat can meet, help each other and exchange ideas. Think about what we are doing right now at the "Langar Hall" virtually. So in that light the langar hall in a traditional, physical gurudwara should also be a point were opposing views are heard and disputes resolved amicably. By building a new Gurudwara or by boycotting it we would be just running away from the problem.
"Sura so pehchaniye jo lade deen ke het, purja purja kat mare kabhoo na chode khet"
A real warrior is one who fights for the downtrodden
And would rather die a thousand cuts, than run away from the field
That said, the "battles" today are not the physical kinds where we are fighting oppression, where someone is trying to kill us. But there are still battles, of our minds, of your psyche, of what our faith means to us, of what is moral and just. Someone said that a pen is mightier than the sword. I would say our Keyboards
are mightier than the swords, infact they are swords. Now coming to the point on "employing all strategem for solving this problem"
Have the two opposing parties been sat down in a room, maybe even outside the Gurudwara, with an objective and independent mediator to listen to grievances on both sides?
Have there been any petitions signed by the Sangat and submitted to the local governing authorities that detail our faith and the dispute, while also suggesting solutions?
Has any investigation been done to figure out what led to this decision in the first place?
I'm just saying, lets find the facts before we start judging people and getting all worked up. There is a dispute, lets find the cause before we can figure out a solution.
Some public information:
The State of New York Supreme Court (County of Monroe) Order in response to Board of Trustee’s of Gurdwara of Rochester (GOR) court petition:
“ ALL persons entering the GOR premises are prohibited from bringing in or carrying ceremonial swords or other weapons that could cause injury or threats to persons within GOR premises.”
Gurdwara Trustees: Mr. Santokh Badesha, Mr. Sudarshan Bains, Mr. Bhoopinder Mehta, Mr. Harbhajan Purewal, Mr. Maghar Channa and Mrs. Rajdeep Cheema
Sworn statements by this Board of Trustees:
“Furthermore, Sikhs can observe the so-called five K’s…” without bringing Kirpans into “…the GOR worship areas”.
“…most baptized Sikhs do not wear ceremonial swords for practical reasons. One way which has been used to meet the code requirements by baptized Sikhs is to carry a comb (Kanga) under their turbans. This comb has a small symbolic sword attached/pasted to it.”
The wearing of Kirpan is a “tradition” that can be honored by wearing a kanga bearing the “image of a small symbolic sword” or wearing “a small symbolic Kirpan on the end of a necklace around their necks…”.
GOR BOT cites a Sikh from the Toronto area as calling for:
“…a complete ban on Kirpans or ceremonial daggers worn by orthodox Sikh members.”
Thank you Mr. Santokh Badesha, Mr. Sudarshan Bains, Mr. Bhoopinder Mehta, Mr. Harbhajan Purewal, Mr. Maghar Channa and Mrs. Rajdeep Cheema for starting the process of undoing everything your own community’s organizations have worked for.
Some public information:
The State of New York Supreme Court (County of Monroe) Order in response to Board of Trustee’s of Gurdwara of Rochester (GOR) court petition:
“ ALL persons entering the GOR premises are prohibited from bringing in or carrying ceremonial swords or other weapons that could cause injury or threats to persons within GOR premises.”
Gurdwara Trustees: Mr. Santokh Badesha, Mr. Sudarshan Bains, Mr. Bhoopinder Mehta, Mr. Harbhajan Purewal, Mr. Maghar Channa and Mrs. Rajdeep Cheema
Sworn statements by this Board of Trustees:
“Furthermore, Sikhs can observe the so-called five K’s…” without bringing Kirpans into “…the GOR worship areas”.
“…most baptized Sikhs do not wear ceremonial swords for practical reasons. One way which has been used to meet the code requirements by baptized Sikhs is to carry a comb (Kanga) under their turbans. This comb has a small symbolic sword attached/pasted to it.”
The wearing of Kirpan is a “tradition” that can be honored by wearing a kanga bearing the “image of a small symbolic sword” or wearing “a small symbolic Kirpan on the end of a necklace around their necks…”.
GOR BOT cites a Sikh from the Toronto area as calling for:
“…a complete ban on Kirpans or ceremonial daggers worn by orthodox Sikh members.”
Thank you Mr. Santokh Badesha, Mr. Sudarshan Bains, Mr. Bhoopinder Mehta, Mr. Harbhajan Purewal, Mr. Maghar Channa and Mrs. Rajdeep Cheema for starting the process of undoing everything your own community’s organizations have worked for.
Balmeet ji
Would you be able to guide me, or better yet provide an Internet link, to the full court ruling above. I have been searching without success. Thank you in advance for you help and kindness.
Narayanjot Kaur
Balmeet ji
Would you be able to guide me, or better yet provide an Internet link, to the full court ruling above. I have been searching without success. Thank you in advance for you help and kindness.
Narayanjot Kaur
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
what's happening in our most of gurdwara's is not good for our community future. In most of Gurdwara Sahib's have managements problems and are in courts also fights in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Kirpan is a Kakkar (symbol) not a weapon . And Gurdwara Sahib is a place of worship and we should respect that.. The Amrit Dhari sikhs should not use Kirpan as a weapon.
The sikh sangat ( both Groups) of Rochester Gurdwara Sahib get together and resolve the issues commonly in stead of wasting their hard earned money and stop harm the respect of our Religous.
Members of Sikh Sangat from other Gurdwara's shuold discuss the issues with both groups and do mediation to resolve this respectfully. Waheguru bless us.
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
what's happening in our most of gurdwara's is not good for our community future. In most of Gurdwara Sahib's have managements problems and are in courts also fights in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Kirpan is a Kakkar (symbol) not a weapon . And Gurdwara Sahib is a place of worship and we should respect that.. The Amrit Dhari sikhs should not use Kirpan as a weapon.
The sikh sangat ( both Groups) of Rochester Gurdwara Sahib get together and resolve the issues commonly in stead of wasting their hard earned money and stop harm the respect of our Religous.
Members of Sikh Sangat from other Gurdwara's shuold discuss the issues with both groups and do mediation to resolve this respectfully. Waheguru bless us.
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.
It is very painful, hurting and disgraceful news.
This appearrs a purely fight for the control of Gurdwara Management and they have used Kirpan as the threat for obtaining court orders.
It is being seen the repeat of mahant culture is sweeping all over the gurdwaras in all corners of the world.
Our present SGPC Chief Sardar Avtar Singh Makkar is also in the same boat. He is President of Model Town Extension Gurdwara since two decades and have not held elections and continues to do so. His opponents built up new gurdwara just 25 mtrs from the existing gurdwara spending millions of sangat money.The model town ext gurdwara has never put accounts statement on the notice board since long .Infact
Similar is the case of Gurdwara Dukhniwaran Sahib which is also controlled by Sardar Prithipal Singh SInce long , but he has ata least putting up accounts statement.
These are present day mahants, the sikh sangat needs to awaken up, as these modern mahants and deras are bent upon to finish the institution of gurdwara.
I think we need to launch gurdwara liberation movement again as it was done in early ninetenth century.
May guru nanak bless all of us to corresct these wrongs being done by our own commmunity members.
Is JATHEDAR Sahib of Akal Thakth Sahib Listeneing .
It is very painful, hurting and disgraceful news.
This appearrs a purely fight for the control of Gurdwara Management and they have used Kirpan as the threat for obtaining court orders.
It is being seen the repeat of mahant culture is sweeping all over the gurdwaras in all corners of the world.
Our present SGPC Chief Sardar Avtar Singh Makkar is also in the same boat. He is President of Model Town Extension Gurdwara since two decades and have not held elections and continues to do so. His opponents built up new gurdwara just 25 mtrs from the existing gurdwara spending millions of sangat money.The model town ext gurdwara has never put accounts statement on the notice board since long .Infact
Similar is the case of Gurdwara Dukhniwaran Sahib which is also controlled by Sardar Prithipal Singh SInce long , but he has ata least putting up accounts statement.
These are present day mahants, the sikh sangat needs to awaken up, as these modern mahants and deras are bent upon to finish the institution of gurdwara.
I think we need to launch gurdwara liberation movement again as it was done in early ninetenth century.
May guru nanak bless all of us to corresct these wrongs being done by our own commmunity members.
Is JATHEDAR Sahib of Akal Thakth Sahib Listeneing .
@SS-India
If the sangat refuses to visit Gurudwaras/ offer money, these institutions will be 'cleaned up'.
@SS-India
If the sangat refuses to visit Gurudwaras/ offer money, these institutions will be 'cleaned up'.
this cannot be tolerated.
how can sikhs [that too in full bana] be banned from a gurudwara.it’s the Board members who should be banned[all are without turbans].Such people who don’t have the guts to fight for their identity but have the guts to stop their sikh brothers who uphold their identity is a shame on them.
this is a very big crime and should be dealt with severe punishment to those who tried to stop sikhs from entering Gurudwara. Gurudwara is nobody’s personal property.
this cannot be tolerated.
how can sikhs [that too in full bana] be banned from a gurudwara.it’s the Board members who should be banned[all are without turbans].Such people who don’t have the guts to fight for their identity but have the guts to stop their sikh brothers who uphold their identity is a shame on them.
this is a very big crime and should be dealt with severe punishment to those who tried to stop sikhs from entering Gurudwara. Gurudwara is nobody’s personal property.
BYCOTT THESE BUISSNESSMEN, WHO ONLY WANT PUBLIC OFFERINGS/MONEY… ONCE SIKH SANGAT STOP GOING TO THEIR SO CALLED MONEY COLLECTING SHOPS…. THEY WILL DISAPPEAR.
BYCOTT THESE BUISSNESSMEN, WHO ONLY WANT PUBLIC OFFERINGS/MONEY… ONCE SIKH SANGAT STOP GOING TO THEIR SO CALLED MONEY COLLECTING SHOPS…. THEY WILL DISAPPEAR.
Attention Sikhs: The facts of this case have been heavily distorted. It is true that ceremonial swords have been banned from the Gurdwara. However, this ban was done because the defendants in this case were brandishing these weapons (these were swords over 24” in length) in the Gurdwara for the sole purpose of intimidating members of the Sangat.
By the New York State ruling, 3 people and their immediate families were restrained from entering the Gurdwara of Rochester. Of these people, NONE OF THEM ARE AMRITDHARIS.
The first person, is a failed father that could not inspire his own children to marry Sikhs. When they married Muslims, he blamed the Gurdwara of Rochester for his own failings as a father.
The second person, is a convicted felon who was charged and convicted of breaking US Immigration Laws. He runs a restaurant where he sells meat and alcohol for profit…Not exactly what would be considered honorable actions for a supposed Amritdhari. Additionally, it is suspected that this man is a Khalistani terrorist and has been banned from returning to India. This is being investigated by members of the Gurdwara of Rochester and once the supporting evidence is compiled and validated, the US Department of Homeland Security is going to be notified.
The last insurgent is the above person’s son. This boy LIED on court documents stating that he was a student and falsified most of his deposition given to the New York Supreme Court. Additionally, he had posted pictures of himself brandishing a Kirpan in an offensive manner on Facebook which the court used to come to their decision that this boy was a danger to safety of the Sangat.
These frauds and their handful of supporters, are twisting facts to make it sound like the members of the Gurdwara of Rochester have done something wrong. Essentially all they did was remove several dangerous people who were threatening violence inside the Gurdwara. Unfortunately their terrorist like actions caused the New York Supreme Court to react in a very harsh manner towards honorable Sikhs that do, in fact, carry Kirpans.
This is still an open case so you will not see any members of the Executive Counsel make any statements in this matter.
Attention Sikhs: The facts of this case have been heavily distorted. It is true that ceremonial swords have been banned from the Gurdwara. However, this ban was done because the defendants in this case were brandishing these weapons (these were swords over 24” in length) in the Gurdwara for the sole purpose of intimidating members of the Sangat.
By the New York State ruling, 3 people and their immediate families were restrained from entering the Gurdwara of Rochester. Of these people, NONE OF THEM ARE AMRITDHARIS.
The first person, is a failed father that could not inspire his own children to marry Sikhs. When they married Muslims, he blamed the Gurdwara of Rochester for his own failings as a father.
The second person, is a convicted felon who was charged and convicted of breaking US Immigration Laws. He runs a restaurant where he sells meat and alcohol for profit…Not exactly what would be considered honorable actions for a supposed Amritdhari. Additionally, it is suspected that this man is a Khalistani terrorist and has been banned from returning to India. This is being investigated by members of the Gurdwara of Rochester and once the supporting evidence is compiled and validated, the US Department of Homeland Security is going to be notified.
The last insurgent is the above person’s son. This boy LIED on court documents stating that he was a student and falsified most of his deposition given to the New York Supreme Court. Additionally, he had posted pictures of himself brandishing a Kirpan in an offensive manner on Facebook which the court used to come to their decision that this boy was a danger to safety of the Sangat.
These frauds and their handful of supporters, are twisting facts to make it sound like the members of the Gurdwara of Rochester have done something wrong. Essentially all they did was remove several dangerous people who were threatening violence inside the Gurdwara. Unfortunately their terrorist like actions caused the New York Supreme Court to react in a very harsh manner towards honorable Sikhs that do, in fact, carry Kirpans.
This is still an open case so you will not see any members of the Executive Counsel make any statements in this matter.
@Charles Knuckles
Thanks for the additional details.
I wonder if there is any quality control policy at TLH which requires the Admins to do some background research before they post a topic. But in case this blog is meant to be a gossip aggregator, I withdraw my previous sentence.
@Charles Knuckles
Thanks for the additional details.
I wonder if there is any quality control policy at TLH which requires the Admins to do some background research before they post a topic. But in case this blog is meant to be a gossip aggregator, I withdraw my previous sentence.
"Additionally, it is suspected that this man is a KHALISTANI TERRORIST and has been banned from returning to India".
How long would it go on that anyone who supports Khalistan would be marked terrorist? I don't know about the guy in question, but the so called 'intellectual' or 'liberals' have the simple habit of calling anyone supporting Khalistan as terrorist and getting away with it. Any Sikh who expresses opinions that are opposed to the interest of Indian Nationalists, or refuses to be subservient to Hindu Nationalists are termed Khalistani terrorist. Well these 'intellectual' or 'liberals' just have the capacity to say it on internet where the debate is slow thereby giving them time to tackle Khalistani opinions and issue with their orthogonal replies and get away with it. So much of your 'intellectual' capacity.
"Additionally, it is suspected that this man is a KHALISTANI TERRORIST and has been banned from returning to India".
How long would it go on that anyone who supports Khalistan would be marked terrorist? I don't know about the guy in question, but the so called 'intellectual' or 'liberals' have the simple habit of calling anyone supporting Khalistan as terrorist and getting away with it. Any Sikh who expresses opinions that are opposed to the interest of Indian Nationalists, or refuses to be subservient to Hindu Nationalists are termed Khalistani terrorist. Well these 'intellectual' or 'liberals' just have the capacity to say it on internet where the debate is slow thereby giving them time to tackle Khalistani opinions and issue with their orthogonal replies and get away with it. So much of your 'intellectual' capacity.
@iSingh it takes a non sikh like charles to tell the truth,majority of sikhs r involved in propaganda for various factions,when a gurdwara controversy is in the fore front.@H S anybody espousing a breakup of a Country by violent means will be branded a terrorist,be it kashmiris or khalistanis.BTW no one in india even talks about this nonentity of khalistan,except that neurotic person SS MANN,or some of so called kharkoos like DS BITTU etc who were & are still on govt payrolls.
@iSingh it takes a non sikh like charles to tell the truth,majority of sikhs r involved in propaganda for various factions,when a gurdwara controversy is in the fore front.@H S anybody espousing a breakup of a Country by violent means will be branded a terrorist,be it kashmiris or khalistanis.BTW no one in india even talks about this nonentity of khalistan,except that neurotic person SS MANN,or some of so called kharkoos like DS BITTU etc who were & are still on govt payrolls.
You are an AH…do you care to observe things you moron..I replied to that so called Charles Knuckles about his suspicion of Khalistani terrorist in case of this article. Keep barking with your closed eyes and mind you Hindustani Nationalist dog. Go ahead, shoo!!!!
You are an AH…do you care to observe things you moron..I replied to that so called Charles Knuckles about his suspicion of Khalistani terrorist in case of this article. Keep barking with your closed eyes and mind you Hindustani Nationalist dog. Go ahead, shoo!!!!
There are hundreds of Sikhs who supported Khalistan back in 90's in India were branded terrorists by Indian govt irrespective of the deed, even on just voicing opinion. This is proven by fact that black list of Sikhs which Indian govt uses has hundreds of Sikhs just because they supported Khalistan even if they are not convicted of any crime. Just research man, I don't have time to explain every tom, dick and harry who argues as if he knows all or he's right in what he is opining.
There are hundreds of Sikhs who supported Khalistan back in 90's in India were branded terrorists by Indian govt irrespective of the deed, even on just voicing opinion. This is proven by fact that black list of Sikhs which Indian govt uses has hundreds of Sikhs just because they supported Khalistan even if they are not convicted of any crime. Just research man, I don't have time to explain every tom, dick and harry who argues as if he knows all or he's right in what he is opining.
This is what Indian Nationalism is all about. Not just any past news, but the latest one.
"http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/deannelson/100050312/the-world-wants-to-think-the-best-about-india-so-we-turn-our-back-on-kashmir/"
"http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DqpK0fHUt2A0"
The almighty would do something, if the weak and powerless people can't do anything about the high handedness and human rights violations by Indian Nationalists cum govt. A very true and doubtless article.
This is what Indian Nationalism is all about. Not just any past news, but the latest one.
"http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/deannelson/100050312/the-world-wants-to-think-the-best-about-india-so-we-turn-our-back-on-kashmir/"
"http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DqpK0fHUt2A0"
The almighty would do something, if the weak and powerless people can't do anything about the high handedness and human rights violations by Indian Nationalists cum govt. A very true and doubtless article.
Now seeing this picture if someone still says (as the Indian media is doing to support Indian govt) that this stone pelting is backed and result of terrorist organizations, then only the final outcome will make you think that your lies went futile:
"http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/india/2010/08/100805_kashmir_protest_women_pics.shtml"
Now seeing this picture if someone still says (as the Indian media is doing to support Indian govt) that this stone pelting is backed and result of terrorist organizations, then only the final outcome will make you think that your lies went futile:
"http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/india/2010/08/100805_kashmir_protest_women_pics.shtml"
http://www. asiantribune. com/?q=node/10471
400,000 kashmiri Hindus forced to leave the kashmir Valley.
Do they have any human rights too Haroon?
Sher
http://www. asiantribune. com/?q=node/10471
400,000 kashmiri Hindus forced to leave the kashmir Valley.
Do they have any human rights too Haroon?
Sher
I know for a fact and by experience that because of my participation as a loyal follower of the Rochester Amrtidhari sikh Sangat that the fellow known as Charles Knuckles is being severely untruthful. I have participated in all of the protests undertaken by the honorable sangat and have seen that our place of holy worship has been turned into a sick joke. I cannot begin to percieve how anyone could actually begin to believe these heretic lies. Who are you, Charles Knuckles, to say that "The Second Person" who I am aware of and have made acquaintances in reality, is a failed father? That is beyond you, beyond anyone and the fact that you say that strikes me as a personal attact against him and an act of desperation. You can try to spread your volatile disease into the blessed roots of sikhism but you will not prevail.
I know for a fact and by experience that because of my participation as a loyal follower of the Rochester Amrtidhari sikh Sangat that the fellow known as Charles Knuckles is being severely untruthful. I have participated in all of the protests undertaken by the honorable sangat and have seen that our place of holy worship has been turned into a sick joke. I cannot begin to percieve how anyone could actually begin to believe these heretic lies. Who are you, Charles Knuckles, to say that "The Second Person" who I am aware of and have made acquaintances in reality, is a failed father? That is beyond you, beyond anyone and the fact that you say that strikes me as a personal attact against him and an act of desperation. You can try to spread your volatile disease into the blessed roots of sikhism but you will not prevail.
I do believe to fellow above me ment "The First Person" Charles Knuckles was talking about, but still his post had some truth in it. It makes me cringe everytime I think about little kids not having a nearby Gurdwara to go to that gives off God's intended radiance. They are being deprived of the Sikhism outlet they deserve. I believe that all parents off these children are doing all they can to educate their kids on their culture and religion, but with the cripple of not having a gurdwara our Sangat Protest Shabd's are their only true connection as of yet. In reference to the whole suspected Khalistani terrorist thing, I cannot even begin to imagine where this Board of Trustees, for lack of a better word, "get off" on calling people these terrible things. If lies and false cries of desperation is their "technique" of combating us honarable amritdhari then they might as well because it is god's will that they have commited a harsh "crime" against the Sikh's of Rochester and that they will pay. I chuckle at you, Charles Knuckles. Why don't you go do some Bhangra in the Langar hall, huh?
I do believe to fellow above me ment "The First Person" Charles Knuckles was talking about, but still his post had some truth in it. It makes me cringe everytime I think about little kids not having a nearby Gurdwara to go to that gives off God's intended radiance. They are being deprived of the Sikhism outlet they deserve. I believe that all parents off these children are doing all they can to educate their kids on their culture and religion, but with the cripple of not having a gurdwara our Sangat Protest Shabd's are their only true connection as of yet. In reference to the whole suspected Khalistani terrorist thing, I cannot even begin to imagine where this Board of Trustees, for lack of a better word, "get off" on calling people these terrible things. If lies and false cries of desperation is their "technique" of combating us honarable amritdhari then they might as well because it is god's will that they have commited a harsh "crime" against the Sikh's of Rochester and that they will pay. I chuckle at you, Charles Knuckles. Why don't you go do some Bhangra in the Langar hall, huh?
Arbitrary & TheAnimatingLaw: There is not a single true Amritdhari in the insurgent group that was banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester. Just because someone wears a beard, has a turban, and displays a sword does NOT mean that they are a good Sikh, or for that matter, an honorable person.
Makhan Singh is a convicted felon, sells meat and alcohol for profit….If any of the Gurus were alive today there is no way that they would approve of this convict calling himself a Sikh much less an Amritdhari. Parminder Soch's daughter renounced Sikhism and converted to Islam. This is the man who is running around claiming he can properly lead a Gurdwara when he can't inspire ANY of his OWN children to remain Sikhs.
The only crime that has been committed are the ones that Makhan Singh has been found guilty of in a court of law.
Arbitrary & TheAnimatingLaw: There is not a single true Amritdhari in the insurgent group that was banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester. Just because someone wears a beard, has a turban, and displays a sword does NOT mean that they are a good Sikh, or for that matter, an honorable person.
Makhan Singh is a convicted felon, sells meat and alcohol for profit….If any of the Gurus were alive today there is no way that they would approve of this convict calling himself a Sikh much less an Amritdhari. Parminder Soch's daughter renounced Sikhism and converted to Islam. This is the man who is running around claiming he can properly lead a Gurdwara when he can't inspire ANY of his OWN children to remain Sikhs.
The only crime that has been committed are the ones that Makhan Singh has been found guilty of in a court of law.
charlesknuckles ur a fag and nobody likes u
charlesknuckles ur a fag and nobody likes u
i can guarentee that this charlesknuckles guy an dhis friends will be thrown out fo that gurdwara like the trash that they are and be the biggest outcasts in sikh society…just wait and watch and there is no way the gurdwara can be under article nine.. all these people know is how to make others look bad and bad 7-11 and taxi jokes which just shows that these people are too full of themselves and there is no way i would go to a gurdwara run by these people…these people give sikhs a bad name…give it up charles everyone knows whos right and whose the wrong and the more u try the bigger fool u make of urself
i can guarentee that this charlesknuckles guy an dhis friends will be thrown out fo that gurdwara like the trash that they are and be the biggest outcasts in sikh society…just wait and watch and there is no way the gurdwara can be under article nine.. all these people know is how to make others look bad and bad 7-11 and taxi jokes which just shows that these people are too full of themselves and there is no way i would go to a gurdwara run by these people…these people give sikhs a bad name…give it up charles everyone knows whos right and whose the wrong and the more u try the bigger fool u make of urself
i was at the last protest held in front of this gurdwara and there were atleast 150 people out in the rain protesting while there were only about 10 people in the gurdwara and most if not all were Hindus(i have nothing aganist Hindus) but this does show that the local and none local sikhs are against the actions of those in charge of GOR and the real question isnt wheather makhan singh or soch are bad sikhs or good sikhs its the truth that those incharge of GOR are really MAHANTS of this day and age an need to be removed.Every protest, new, radio shows support on and from the sangats side but a "NO COMMENT" on the MAHANTS part…this clearly shows what is going on and the GOR sanagat is now finally united and one and are recieving help from others as well and these mahants will not stay in power much longer
i was at the last protest held in front of this gurdwara and there were atleast 150 people out in the rain protesting while there were only about 10 people in the gurdwara and most if not all were Hindus(i have nothing aganist Hindus) but this does show that the local and none local sikhs are against the actions of those in charge of GOR and the real question isnt wheather makhan singh or soch are bad sikhs or good sikhs its the truth that those incharge of GOR are really MAHANTS of this day and age an need to be removed.Every protest, new, radio shows support on and from the sangats side but a "NO COMMENT" on the MAHANTS part…this clearly shows what is going on and the GOR sanagat is now finally united and one and are recieving help from others as well and these mahants will not stay in power much longer
Charles is a Hindu in disguise…just like all other Hindus penetrating Sikhism to rip it apart!!!!
Charles is a Hindu in disguise…just like all other Hindus penetrating Sikhism to rip it apart!!!!
Unfounded personal attacks mean nothing. They just prove that some people, who claim to be Sikhs, have very little under their turbans.
If the phony Rochester Amritdharis put HALF of the effort of these orchestrated protests into starting their OWN fundamentalist / wahhabi temple, perhaps they wouldn't have to stand in the rain. However, it is easier to try to take over what has already been built rather than doing the hard work of starting something from the ground up.
An unbiased court of law determined that several lowlifes pretending to be Amritdhari Sikhs were inciting violence in an otherwise peaceful Gurdwara. Therefore they were banned. There is nothing more or nothing less to this.
Anyone who has been attending the Gurdwara of Rochester since the beginning, over 30 years ago, knows this. Anyone who jumped off the boat in the last 10-15 years, knows absolutely nothing of what personal sacrifices, personal donation, and ongoing Seva the founding members of the Gurdwara of Rochester did to create this place of peaceful worship in this community.
If you Popcorn Sikhs don't like how the Gurdwara of Rochester is run, BUILD YOUR OWN WAHHABI TEMPLE.
Unfounded personal attacks mean nothing. They just prove that some people, who claim to be Sikhs, have very little under their turbans.
If the phony Rochester Amritdharis put HALF of the effort of these orchestrated protests into starting their OWN fundamentalist / wahhabi temple, perhaps they wouldn't have to stand in the rain. However, it is easier to try to take over what has already been built rather than doing the hard work of starting something from the ground up.
An unbiased court of law determined that several lowlifes pretending to be Amritdhari Sikhs were inciting violence in an otherwise peaceful Gurdwara. Therefore they were banned. There is nothing more or nothing less to this.
Anyone who has been attending the Gurdwara of Rochester since the beginning, over 30 years ago, knows this. Anyone who jumped off the boat in the last 10-15 years, knows absolutely nothing of what personal sacrifices, personal donation, and ongoing Seva the founding members of the Gurdwara of Rochester did to create this place of peaceful worship in this community.
If you Popcorn Sikhs don't like how the Gurdwara of Rochester is run, BUILD YOUR OWN WAHHABI TEMPLE.
"An unbiased court of law determined that several lowlifes pretending to be Amritdhari Sikhs were inciting violence in an otherwise peaceful Gurdwara. Therefore they were banned. There is nothing more or nothing less to this."
Can somebody PLEASE pull the court documents?
"An unbiased court of law determined that several lowlifes pretending to be Amritdhari Sikhs were inciting violence in an otherwise peaceful Gurdwara. Therefore they were banned. There is nothing more or nothing less to this."
Can somebody PLEASE pull the court documents?
i am a member of the gurdwara and from what i have seen charlesknuckles views are completely opposite..Everyday the trustees created problems.
i am a member of the gurdwara and from what i have seen charlesknuckles views are completely opposite..Everyday the trustees created problems.
Seeing the writing of this Charles knuckels guy, a good estimated guess can me made of the behavior of these so called trustees.
Seeing the writing of this Charles knuckels guy, a good estimated guess can me made of the behavior of these so called trustees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWV3l6psuwU&fe…
Latest Aug. 15 protest video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea55_cHSf88&fe…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWV3l6psuwU&fe…
Latest Aug. 15 protest video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea55_cHSf88&fe…