Why We Remember 1984
Joint post by Mapleleaf Sikh, Sundari, Jodha, Camille, Phulkari, RP Singh, Reema
It has been 25 years and we remember.
On this day we remember; in this week we remember; in this month we remember; in this year we remember. On June 6th we stopped to remember the recent chapter in the history of the Sikhs.
When the topic of 1984 is brought up, most Sikhs have one of two reactions. For many, it strikes a deep chord. It awakens a memory of what Professor Tatla calls a “critical” event, one of those rare instances that shapes lives far beyond the incident’s physical reach. It is an event that every Sikh knew, even at the time, had marked the fabric of Sikhs’ history and set off a sequence of events that would stay with us indefinitely.
For others, it involves resurrecting the tragic shadow from the past that they would much rather leave behind and forget. They say, “Let’s focus on the future.” “What’s done is done, and we must live in the present and look forward. Memories of the event only serve to create additional hatred and anger.”
We, at TheLangarHall, choose to remember.
We do not hold onto fear, anger, or hatred. We understand that time does not stop. Guru Gobind Singh Ji often spoke in the future tense. We look to the future as well.
However, to look forward, we do not need to forget the past. In Ardaas, along with Asa di Vaar that is to be done as a “community,” we share and take inspiration from Sikh sheroes and heroes.
In order to move forward with dignity, we seek justice and truth, to expose the events of 1984 and state-terrorism in the subsequent decade. We criticize and scrutinize our own roles and failings so that we may learn a lesson from this chapter of our history. We celebrate and decide our own heroes and sheroes, without seeking approval from anyone else.
This is our history. This is our truth. It must be recorded. Atonements and reparations must be made. We will write our own history, unlike many Sikhs in the past. We hold pens and no longer are forced to live in the Lakhi Jungle. We will not let others write our history. It is our history; it is about us, by us, and our perspectives will be heard.
[For background information on events leading up to Operation Bluestar, see chronology and resources on Ensaaf‘s site.]
Below, we share with you, why each of us individually remembers.
::
Thomas Friedman writes about judging a community or nation not by its economic output but rather its quotient of dreams versus memories. For the Sikh nation, our memories have cut so deep, it has been difficult to focus on the future as we have not yet reconciled the past. Let there be no doubt that we must document and honour the past. We must continue fighting to rectify past injustices. However, with a new generation of Sikh youth born after 1984 quickly finding a foothold in the dynamics of the diaspora, fixating exclusively on 1984 will not move the panth forward. We must learn to dream again. What do we as leaders of the panth want to be when we grow up? What are our hopes and dreams for Sikhs around the world? What is our vision for the panth in 2034? 2084? How will we get there? Where do we begin?
It’s questions like these that has led to the creation of The Langar Hall. The best way for us, the TLH bloggers, to honour the memory of 1984, will be to continue inspiring the Sikh panth to dream, discuss and take collective action.
::
I remember ’84 as a catalyst and a source of inspiration. It caused my parents to move to the US, shaped my intellectual/professional ambitions, and continues to remind me of the urgency that moves many lives today, even if I have since become insulated. I was three in ’84, and still living in East Delhi. I don’t remember the disaster of November as it unfolded (either I was too young, or my memory has decided to let it go) but the details that my parents have shared since are deeply embedded. My dad’s colleagues told him in the late morning that he should leave work early and go home to safety, that they had heard rumors that Sikhs weren’t safe in Delhi that day. My chachaji, who lived with us at the time, was also out that day with friends when he heard rumors of the same. Both made their way home on motorcycles. After finally confronting his own memories not too long ago, my dad admitted the horrors he saw on the streets that still make him as angry as if they happened yesterday. My chachaji was chased by a “mob.” Luckily, both escaped and made it home safely. Our neighbors, who were Hindu and close friends, hid us. When the mobs came to our enclave, inquiring about Sikhs, they were sent away, keeping our secret safe.
When we moved to the US, we never discussed it. I only learned about it in college through research- conversations that pointed to books, news reports, and conferences. Through academic pursuits and internships, I learned about my own history along with more widely studied incidents of mass violence. Realizing that the benevolence of neighbors and initiative of my parents were all that separated my childhood luxury and privilege from an entirely different and far more difficult life, I felt incapable of inaction.
Today, it stands as a reminder that minorities must develop skills to become self-reliant, and come to the aid of other similarly situated communities. “A tiny two-percent minority like the Sikhs are the proverbial canary in the coal mine, the bellweather that can point to how the winds of Indian democracy are blowing.” [Cynthia Kepply Mahmood, Sikhchic] The systematic abuse of human rights that violently began with Operation Bluestar in Punjab has become a model for the Indian state’s handling of national security issues decades later and emboldened nationalist organizations that deprive religious minorities of equal protection.
What the Indian government of ’84 sought to destroy, it only inflamed. Today ’84 is a reminder to stand up for the rights of others, as well as my own community.
As with any tragedy, injustice to one group is an injustice to all of humanity. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, “Truth is high, but higher still is truthful living.” We are living the truth and as defenders of humanity, we stand up and choose to be heard.
My first memory of 1984 is Mark Tully’s voice. As a BBC correspondent, Mark Tully reported on the Indian army’s storming of the Darbar Sahib. I remember listening to his reports as a young child and simultaneously viewing the growing apprehension on my parents’ faces. My father had always had a strong interest in the politics of Punjab and often hosted Sikh leaders from Punjab at our home. However, after 1984, my mother also transformed into an activist. They joined with their friends and participated in marches and protests which were organized all across the UK. Sikh women stood alongside their husbands, many of them pushing strollers or holding the hands of their young children. This was an issue that affected the Qaum and one thing was clear, the events of 1984 mobilized two generations – our parents and in turn, their children.
One of my most inspiring memories was learning about human rights activist, Jaswant Singh Khalra. Jaswant Singh Khalra did not only continue to remember the events of 1984 while he was alive but he stood up and defended the rights of all. If there is anything that resonates with me about the post-1984 events, it’s the need to not only hold onto memory but to act upon it. Something he said in one of his final speeches still resonates with me today, “the khalsa was inaugurated to protect the human rights, the human rights of the world. And if you cannot protect your own human rights, you will not be able to give any definition of the Khalsa in the world. I request you, please don’t just learn how to take from the Guru, learn how to fulfill the instructions given to you by the Guru also.” With young Sikhs only beginning to learn about these tragic events – the seed has been planted, the activism is growing, and it is now clear that we will continue to remember and act for generations to come.
::
The first memory I have of my father may seem rather strange.
I was 3 at the time. My mother, someone else (don’t remember who), and I went for a mulaqat at Central Jail.
Moments later my father walked into the neighboring room. We were separated by bars (unlike the clear glass in US jails, in Punjab, bars separate you) that were meant to keep us apart.
I wish I could tell you I remember the entire conversation, but I don’t. I do remember my mother taking me to the main gate and handing me to a police guard. I had no idea, where he was taking me. I was whisked into the jail facilities. Even at that age, I had expected to see a dark room, but literally it looked like a pind.
I remember it was huge…there were manjas all over the place. The flowers and trees raced past my eyes and finally I was handed to a man. The man was my father. He immediately put me on his shoulders and with a bright smile and a gait in-between a walk and dance, walked towards other people. From that vantage point, all I could see was a sea of kesri parne. My eyes shifted lower and I noticed almost all were wearing white kurta pajamas.
After the hamla at Darbar Sahib in 1984, orders to arrest my dad were issued as part of part of Operation Woodrose. My father and our family were amongst the lucky; many others in our pind and in neighboring areas were executed and murdered at point-blank range; my father would later only be mercilessly tortured. All Amritdharis were labeled as “terrorists”. My father escaped this first round of executions as he had gone “underground”. He was arrested, sometime in 1984 or early 1985.
My dad had been actively involved with the Sikh Student Federation and was studying in Batala, during those days. To make a long story short, he was charged under the National Security Act (NSA) and jailed for a year and half without a trial or hearing. Still, our family, comparatively, was extremely fortunate, because while most that were apprehended were either murdered or languished in jail, personally we know some that are still caged even after 25 years in places like Jodhpur, my father’s case was taken before the Justice Ajit Singh Bains committee and he was released.
His release wasn’t the end of his story. Often randomly, but very repeatedly, he was picked up by the police and taken to jail. Our family or the Panchayat would often intervene to get him released. Sometimes they met immediate success; often they didn’t. My father’s activism didn’t stop. He spoke at the bhogs of Shaheeds and lauded their bravery. When my father would disappear for a few days, my dhadhi always worried that he had been “eliminated” by the police or army.
The second episode is a little clearer in my mind. Now I was four and we were celebrating the birth of my baby brother. We were in my nankay’s pind and my dad joined the festivities after having been “underground” for a few months. We were all surprised and happy to see him. Our joy was to be cut short.
At 4am, just before the granthi at the pind Gurdwara could begin the morning’s Japji Sahib, I was woken by the sound of stomping on the roof. My fear was steadily rising, when all of a sudden the Border Security Force (BSF) burst into the home, after having surrounded and cordoned off the entire area. This was October 1987. He was arrested this time, because in “democratic” India he had spoken at the bhogs of Shaheeds. Although he had been tortured many times, he would later admit to me that this was the worst. He never revealed to me what exactly he went through, but even at that age I remember his return with two men supporting him on both sides, because he couldn’t walk.
Despite torture, threats, and torment, my father’s Sikh spirit never diminished and he continued to reveal the truth and celebrate the Qaum’s heroes; the quote I’ve heard him use all the time is Panth Vase Main Ujran, Man Ka Chao Mera…He is my hero; my mother and grandmother that aided and supported him are my sheroes…and this is why I remember 84.
::
Hearing my father say, “Indria Gandhi is dead … come watch the TV” are my first memories. As a young child, I see this woman with yellow garlands around her neck and she looks like she is sleeping. Next I hear about the violence in Punjab, see men arriving in the U.S. as asylum seekers, pro-Khalistan bumper stickers, and Gurdwara fights between the “better” Sikhs and monaa. My mother tells me the story of family members housing freedom fighters in their homes, while other male relatives all of sudden become keshdari because they fear being killed. “You see him over there … your Chachji knows a Punjabi Hindu couple who he called family when he came illegally to the US, but after 1984 they have never spoken to each other”. A professor in college asks me what I think about the “terrorists” in Punjab as a Sikh. You see she had done research on “communal violence”. All these stories and contradictions in feelings never made sense to me until I learned my history- the details of 1984. These details where the threads that helped bring together all the contradictions. By remaining open to hearing both sides and everything in-between, I see how 1984 both brought Sikhs together as a community; but also immediately disjointed us. I see the fire and passion- the spirit of Sikhi, as well as lack of unity in our community. How do we move forward as a Sikh community that is united- either by accepting our differences or working together to see our similarities. I fear Operation Bluestar was an effort by the Indian state to “divide and conquer” us. It was an effort as Joyce Pettigrew writes: “… not to eliminate a political figure or a political movement but to suppress the culture of a people to attack their hearts, and to strike a blow to their spirit and self confidence.” I am doubtful it will accomplish it’s mission despite my fears, because our history has shown us that the spirit of Sikhs rises above such attacks. This spirit is deeply and initimately bound to our souls despite whatever label of “Sikh” we want to attach to each other. We will move forward without forgetting our history as a community.
::
Truth is, the 1984 attacks were not designed to just kill Sikhs. They were designed to kill Sikhi. To attack our history, our culture…to break our spirit.
But as we reflect on different ways to remember 1984, let us not forget…if it was our Sikhi they tried to destroy…if it was our spirit they tried to break…then it is our spirit we must preserve, it is our Sikhi that we must strengthen. Now is the time to re-enforce our relationship with the Guru.
There is nothing a tyrant fears more…there is nothing an oppressor fears more…than a Guru inspired Sikh!
Guru Sahib has said…
With the Guru by our side guide…we will always be victorious. With the Guru as our guide…we can never be defeated.
::
I remember 1984 as the year my family stopped being Indian. After participation in the independence movement, and after years of hoping for a multiethnic, multireligious state, my nanaji withdrew completely from the notion of a new India.
I was less than a year old when Harmandar Sahib was attacked, but I spent a childhood living with ghosts. My parents faces would go white at any mention of Punjab, Indira Gandhi, or India. Their mouths would tense almost imperceptibly. With each interaction, I could see rivers of deep red blood reflected in the irises of their eyes.
My parents did not return to India for over 20 years, losing a lifetime of waking years along with all the lives of rishtay slaughtered in the ’84 ghallughara. My mother hung a sign on our fridge: “There can be no peace without justice.”
This is why, 25 years later, there can never truly be peace within the Sikh qaum or in Punjab. There has been no real justice for the victims of 1984, and there has been no apology or admission of wrong-doing for the disgusting violence against innocents. Instead, Sikhs have heard excuses, justifications, and the droning reminder to “get over it,” as though we had been jilted in a lovers’ quarrel, not massacred at the hands of a morally bankrupt State.
In the wake of 1984, government-backed propaganda has driven a deep rift between members of our community. Some view 1984 as an egregious crime against humanity perpetrated by a corrupt State. Others have processed 1984 as retribution for a wrong — that somehow, as a community we deserved collective punishment because we were wrong, or members of our Panth were wrong.
I remember 1984 because “I am not wrong/ Wrong is not my name” (June Jordan, 1992). Like other peoples who have been oppressed, slaughtered, degraded, or disempowered, we are not wrong. I remember 1984 because no one else will, and when we die, I do not want the stories and lives of my parents to die a third time. I remember because to be a Sikh requires this collective consciousness / memory.
93 Responses to “Why We Remember 1984”
A remarkable post!
A remarkable post!
Beautifully said…
Just as long as there isn't a mass generalization of hatred against 'Hindus' or the 'perceived majority' in India and no demand of a separate state, there will be no one opposing your quest for justice for 1984 or any other injustices. Every Sikh, every Hindu, every Muslim, every human being will support your cause in that case. Keep it hate-free; that's all.
Beautifully said…
Just as long as there isn’t a mass generalization of hatred against ‘Hindus’ or the ‘perceived majority’ in India and no demand of a separate state, there will be no one opposing your quest for justice for 1984 or any other injustices. Every Sikh, every Hindu, every Muslim, every human being will support your cause in that case. Keep it hate-free; that’s all.
Dear Reema,
Fateh!
You are great writer. Thanks for sharing your emotions with us.
We all have memories and pains about 1984 and I have observed that we are now consciously focused on remembering 1984. But we don't know what 1984 basically is i.e we haven't even understood the reasons behind 1984.
How does remembering delivers justice when we can do nothing to prevent another 1984?
What caused all this against Sikhs?
I don't think Sikhs have answered it diligently. We want to either shy or hoodwink the reality. Yes, you are right! basically, we have shied away from writing our history, and other have written it for us.
India constitutionally enforces Hinduism and subjugates Sikhs to be Hindus, as a Hindu State.
India has further constitutionally justified the right to take away liberties and to unleash mass-violence.
Article 21. No person shall be deprived of his life or personal
liberty except according to procedure established by law.
Article 34. Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing
provisions of this Part, Parliament may by law indemnify
any person in the service of the Union or of a State or
any other person in respect of any act done by him in
connection with the maintenance or restoration of order
in any area within the territory of India where martial
law was in force or validate any sentence passed,
punishment inflicted, forfeiture ordered or other act done
under martial law in such area.
So I have question, is our justice going to be conformed to the aforementioned parameters?
Dear Reema,
Fateh!
You are great writer. Thanks for sharing your emotions with us.
We all have memories and pains about 1984 and I have observed that we are now consciously focused on remembering 1984. But we don’t know what 1984 basically is i.e we haven’t even understood the reasons behind 1984.
How does remembering delivers justice when we can do nothing to prevent another 1984?
What caused all this against Sikhs?
I don’t think Sikhs have answered it diligently. We want to either shy or hoodwink the reality. Yes, you are right! basically, we have shied away from writing our history, and other have written it for us.
India constitutionally enforces Hinduism and subjugates Sikhs to be Hindus, as a Hindu State.
India has further constitutionally justified the right to take away liberties and to unleash mass-violence.
Article 21. No person shall be deprived of his life or personal
liberty except according to procedure established by law.
Article 34. Notwithstanding anything in the foregoing
provisions of this Part, Parliament may by law indemnify
any person in the service of the Union or of a State or
any other person in respect of any act done by him in
connection with the maintenance or restoration of order
in any area within the territory of India where martial
law was in force or validate any sentence passed,
punishment inflicted, forfeiture ordered or other act done
under martial law in such area.
So I have question, is our justice going to be conformed to the aforementioned parameters?
This is what I found on Punjab New Line. We must remember that the greatest enemy of Sikhs is GOI and its [too close to name calling, which we don't allow] and thugs which controls its intelligence agencies. Here is the post.
The Thousand Pound GOI Gorilla in Punjab & Kashmir Always Ignored by Media Print E-mail
Punjab Newsline Network
Wednesday, 10 June 2009
Indian & western media always fails to report on the role of the “1000 pound gorilla” in the "Punjab cage": splinter Sikh movements and "sects" (e.g. Narankarias, Sucha Sauda, Saucha Khanda) are largely sponsored by the Government of India.
They are part of the Brahminist Regime's ongoing strategy to divide, control and denigrate the Sikhs: create a religious split between the Jat Sikhs (the “backbone of Sikhdom”; around 70% of Sikhs) & other Sikhs.
Indian intelligence networks (e.g. RAW, BSF) work in concert with fascist Brahminist organizations such as Arya Samaj, RSS and BJP to instigate public incidents and "false-flag" operations that promote the split and generate negative press for Sikhs internationally. The Brahminist Commissars in charge of these “operations” are typically drawn from segments of the Khatri and Brahmin communities (“Lala” and “Bahman” in Punjabi). The Punjab Police is totally in their grasp as well: 10 of the 12 district Senior Superintendents of Police (SSP) are Brahminists while they collectively represent less than 10% of the Punjab population in a majority Sikh state. During the Dera Sucha Sauda instigation and violence against Sikhs in 2006, Ram Rahim’s thugs were protected by Naresh Kumar, the SSP of Bhatinda. During the 80-90s, the Indian regime sponsored terrorist groups such as “Black cats” and "Kuka-Parrey" in Punjab and Kashmir under the media cover of “Sikh terrorists” & “Muslim terrorists”.
Since the creation of Arya Samaj (“Aryan Society”) in 1876 and other affiliates, these outfits has been preaching fascist and genocidal historical and social-engineering ideologies consistent with Manu’s delusional fantasies of Brahmanical-caste rule in southasia (despite the well documented historical reality that much of southasia has been ruled by British, Sikh, Muslim and Buddhist empires and kingdoms over most of the past 2400 years, and that the origin of many peoples & cultures settled in western southasia are traceable to central asia – e.g. Sakas, Huns, Pathans, Mugals).
The Brahminist-terror nexus in Punjab-Kashmir has just recently engineered two new chanakya-style distractions (Chopian in Kashmir and Vienna-Austria) to diffuse attention from the 25th anniversary of their genocidal attack on the Golden Temple and 48 other Gurdwaras on June 5,1984. Once again, the Sikh victims of Brahminist terror are painted as the aggressors – whose enemy is supposedly the Brahminist’s evil Muslims!
Kabir
kabir7828@hotmail.com
Amazing post. Probably a milestone in the journey of langarhall. Scars of 1984 run deep in the Sikh psyche and will continue to inspire us.
Thanks again to the LH team.
Regards,
Sarabjit Singh
Warning: Do not hijack this thread to espouse conspiracy theories, create caricatures or promote hatred of other communities. It won't be tolerated! If commenters can't be civil, either you'll be blocked, or we'll close the thread.
(Tej, you're walking a fine line- even if this is an emotional issue, generalized hatred of entire groups is unjustified and counterproductive.)
H Singh, thanks for the compliment, but the post was jointly written by all bloggers.
Also, this is untrue:
India actually has (and enforces) strong protections for the right to PRACTICE one's religion- ANY religion. It's just not as conscientious about protecting other rights of religious minorities, as witnessed not only in Punjab, but also later in Gujurat, and recently in Orissa.
This is what I found on Punjab New Line. We must remember that the greatest enemy of Sikhs is GOI and its [too close to name calling, which we don’t allow] and thugs which controls its intelligence agencies. Here is the post.
The Thousand Pound GOI Gorilla in Punjab & Kashmir Always Ignored by Media Print E-mail
Punjab Newsline Network
Wednesday, 10 June 2009
Indian & western media always fails to report on the role of the “1000 pound gorilla” in the “Punjab cage”: splinter Sikh movements and “sects” (e.g. Narankarias, Sucha Sauda, Saucha Khanda) are largely sponsored by the Government of India.
They are part of the Brahminist Regime’s ongoing strategy to divide, control and denigrate the Sikhs: create a religious split between the Jat Sikhs (the “backbone of Sikhdom”; around 70% of Sikhs) & other Sikhs.
Indian intelligence networks (e.g. RAW, BSF) work in concert with fascist Brahminist organizations such as Arya Samaj, RSS and BJP to instigate public incidents and “false-flag” operations that promote the split and generate negative press for Sikhs internationally. The Brahminist Commissars in charge of these “operations” are typically drawn from segments of the Khatri and Brahmin communities (“Lala” and “Bahman” in Punjabi). The Punjab Police is totally in their grasp as well: 10 of the 12 district Senior Superintendents of Police (SSP) are Brahminists while they collectively represent less than 10% of the Punjab population in a majority Sikh state. During the Dera Sucha Sauda instigation and violence against Sikhs in 2006, Ram Rahim’s thugs were protected by Naresh Kumar, the SSP of Bhatinda. During the 80-90s, the Indian regime sponsored terrorist groups such as “Black cats” and “Kuka-Parrey” in Punjab and Kashmir under the media cover of “Sikh terrorists” & “Muslim terrorists”.
Since the creation of Arya Samaj (“Aryan Society”) in 1876 and other affiliates, these outfits has been preaching fascist and genocidal historical and social-engineering ideologies consistent with Manu’s delusional fantasies of Brahmanical-caste rule in southasia (despite the well documented historical reality that much of southasia has been ruled by British, Sikh, Muslim and Buddhist empires and kingdoms over most of the past 2400 years, and that the origin of many peoples & cultures settled in western southasia are traceable to central asia – e.g. Sakas, Huns, Pathans, Mugals).
The Brahminist-terror nexus in Punjab-Kashmir has just recently engineered two new chanakya-style distractions (Chopian in Kashmir and Vienna-Austria) to diffuse attention from the 25th anniversary of their genocidal attack on the Golden Temple and 48 other Gurdwaras on June 5,1984. Once again, the Sikh victims of Brahminist terror are painted as the aggressors – whose enemy is supposedly the Brahminist’s evil Muslims!
Kabir
kabir7828@hotmail.com
Amazing post. Probably a milestone in the journey of langarhall. Scars of 1984 run deep in the Sikh psyche and will continue to inspire us.
Thanks again to the LH team.
Regards,
Sarabjit Singh
Warning: Do not hijack this thread to espouse conspiracy theories, create caricatures or promote hatred of other communities. It won’t be tolerated! If commenters can’t be civil, either you’ll be blocked, or we’ll close the thread.
(Tej, you’re walking a fine line- even if this is an emotional issue, generalized hatred of entire groups is unjustified and counterproductive.)
H Singh, thanks for the compliment, but the post was jointly written by all bloggers.
Also, this is untrue:
India actually has (and enforces) strong protections for the right to PRACTICE one’s religion- ANY religion. It’s just not as conscientious about protecting other rights of religious minorities, as witnessed not only in Punjab, but also later in Gujurat, and recently in Orissa.
beautifully written article!!
Our demands for Justice are two fold:
1) The Indian Government should allow the UN access into the India so they can conduct independent investigates into the Genocide committed against the Sikhs since 1978 without any restrictions.
2) Once the investigation by the UN has been conducted and the findings be released and the perpretrators be brought to justice then allow the UN to hold a referendum in Punjab to allow the people of Punjab to decide whether they want an independent state.
beautifully written article!!
Our demands for Justice are two fold:
1) The Indian Government should allow the UN access into the India so they can conduct independent investigates into the Genocide committed against the Sikhs since 1978 without any restrictions.
2) Once the investigation by the UN has been conducted and the findings be released and the perpretrators be brought to justice then allow the UN to hold a referendum in Punjab to allow the people of Punjab to decide whether they want an independent state.
brilliant brilliant post. I learned so much.
brilliant brilliant post. I learned so much.
However, I would retort – agencies of the Indian State were complicit when not active collaborators in the persecution of its own citizenry. Its something more than merely not being 'conscientious.'
Jodha- agreed; though it's impossible to tell through writing, I said "conscientious" sarcastically.
Reema,
That makes much more sense, haha. My bad.
However, I would retort – agencies of the Indian State were complicit when not active collaborators in the persecution of its own citizenry. Its something more than merely not being ‘conscientious.’
Just to be clear though, Jodha, I'd limit accusations of complicity to individuals' actions, (though it's true that led to failures of certain agencies to act)…agencies are just made up of individuals and thinking of them as monolithic entities holds us back from really examining where specific errors and crimes were made.
People outside the Sikh community will only listen if our accusations are precise, and limited to those individuals where there is proof of complicity.
Jodha- agreed; though it’s impossible to tell through writing, I said “conscientious” sarcastically.
Reema,
That makes much more sense, haha. My bad.
Just to be clear though, Jodha, I’d limit accusations of complicity to individuals’ actions, (though it’s true that led to failures of certain agencies to act)…agencies are just made up of individuals and thinking of them as monolithic entities holds us back from really examining where specific errors and crimes were made.
People outside the Sikh community will only listen if our accusations are precise, and limited to those individuals where there is proof of complicity.
On some level it is individuals, but states are also something greater than just individuals. Regardless, follow the chain of command in Delhi 1984, and I am sure you will see in terms of complicity up to the highest offices. However, the real question is does a state functionary – the judiciary – have the ability or determination to indict itself. If not, then people will lose faith in it, and begin to seek outside solutions and outside agencies for justice.
Reema,
FATEH!
I would want you to go over my post again and read the Articles of the Indian Constitution and their insipiration from Hinduism.
India justifies taking away life and liberties of anybody and it constitutionally subordinates Sikhs under Hindus. Racial subordination is integral to Hinduism in its history.
Apologizing for it, is to simplify the reasons of Hindu State-violence.
To conclude based on Hinduism's history of racial exploitation that India is simply not “conscientious” is masquendering of racism itself.
Racism has nothing to do with not being conscientious; it is based on the objective of human exploitation.
On some level it is individuals, but states are also something greater than just individuals. Regardless, follow the chain of command in Delhi 1984, and I am sure you will see in terms of complicity up to the highest offices. However, the real question is does a state functionary – the judiciary – have the ability or determination to indict itself. If not, then people will lose faith in it, and begin to seek outside solutions and outside agencies for justice.
Reema,
FATEH!
I would want you to go over my post again and read the Articles of the Indian Constitution and their insipiration from Hinduism.
India justifies taking away life and liberties of anybody and it constitutionally subordinates Sikhs under Hindus. Racial subordination is integral to Hinduism in its history.
Apologizing for it, is to simplify the reasons of Hindu State-violence.
To conclude based on Hinduism’s history of racial exploitation that India is simply not “conscientious” is masquendering of racism itself.
Racism has nothing to do with not being conscientious; it is based on the objective of human exploitation.
Gurfateh,
Some pictures from the London remembrance event held 7th June 2009.
Thousands of Sikhs attended.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarider/sets/72157…
Follow the links in the comment section of this photograph for many more photographs.
Gurfateh,
Some pictures from the London remembrance event held 7th June 2009.
Thousands of Sikhs attended.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarider/sets/72157619399579442/
Follow the links in the comment section of this photograph for many more photographs.
"Apologizing for it, is to simplify the reasons of Hindu State-violence."
Why is this baseless hatred being accepted and published on Langar Hall?
“Apologizing for it, is to simplify the reasons of Hindu State-violence.”
Why is this baseless hatred being accepted and published on Langar Hall?
Indian Sikh- the opinions of commenters are not the opinions of TheLangarHall. Nothing said by any commenter represents, in any way, the opinion of any blogger, or of the site as a whole.
We don't always have time to respond to every comment that goes up, which one or many of us may disagree with. That doesn't mean we accept it. It's published because it's what the author of the statement thinks.
Indian Sikh- the opinions of commenters are not the opinions of TheLangarHall. Nothing said by any commenter represents, in any way, the opinion of any blogger, or of the site as a whole.
We don’t always have time to respond to every comment that goes up, which one or many of us may disagree with. That doesn’t mean we accept it. It’s published because it’s what the author of the statement thinks.
I appreciate the values of Modrators who allow us to discuss facts and independentaly make conclusions on those.
I appreciate the values of Modrators who allow us to discuss facts and independentaly make conclusions on those.
I realize that, Reema, but there have been times when comments were removed and topics have been closed. Ironically, all those comments that were deleted were against the agenda Mr. H Singh is promoting. Need I not assume that there is some bias being exercised by LangarHall moderators?
Having said that, I loved your comment:
http://thelangarhall.com/archives/3526#comments
That's one of the most intelligent things ever said by any writer on Langar Hall. Keep up the good work!
The link in the above comment was supposed to refer to the following post by Reema:
"Just to be clear though, Jodha, I’d limit accusations of complicity to individuals’ actions, (though it’s true that led to failures of certain agencies to act)…agencies are just made up of individuals and thinking of them as monolithic entities holds us back from really examining where specific errors and crimes were made. People outside the Sikh community will only listen if our accusations are precise, and limited to those individuals where there is proof of complicity."
flawless!
Indian Sikh, where were you educated, and where in India do you reside?
I realize that, Reema, but there have been times when comments were removed and topics have been closed. Ironically, all those comments that were deleted were against the agenda Mr. H Singh is promoting. Need I not assume that there is some bias being exercised by LangarHall moderators?
Having said that, I loved your comment:
http://thelangarhall.com/archives/3526#comments
That’s one of the most intelligent things ever said by any writer on Langar Hall. Keep up the good work!
The link in the above comment was supposed to refer to the following post by Reema:
“Just to be clear though, Jodha, I’d limit accusations of complicity to individuals’ actions, (though it’s true that led to failures of certain agencies to act)…agencies are just made up of individuals and thinking of them as monolithic entities holds us back from really examining where specific errors and crimes were made. People outside the Sikh community will only listen if our accusations are precise, and limited to those individuals where there is proof of complicity.”
flawless!
Indian Sikh, where were you educated, and where in India do you reside?
Dear Indian Sikh,
I have read Reema's response and yours. I agree with Reema on much of what she has to say but albeit, Reema misunderstands when she says that the massacre of Sikhs was an act of an individual or group of individuals. This is NOT true. about the massacre of Sikhs She is not looking at the factuality, and that's all what I wanted to point out.
Massacre of Sikhs was an act of India which had widespread support from ALL sections of Hindu society. It was an act of racial subjugation. Racial subjugation of Sikhs by the Hindu society is not a twentieth century phenomenon. There is a history of it and to deny that history is to deny justice and truth.
As I pointed out before we as Sikhs need to find a solution. If you have better solution we would all like to listen. However, we should not shy away or hoodwink the facts for the obedience and apologism towards Hinduism.
Dear Indian Sikh,
I have read Reema’s response and yours. I agree with Reema on much of what she has to say but albeit, Reema misunderstands when she says that the massacre of Sikhs was an act of an individual or group of individuals. This is NOT true. about the massacre of Sikhs She is not looking at the factuality, and that’s all what I wanted to point out.
Massacre of Sikhs was an act of India which had widespread support from ALL sections of Hindu society. It was an act of racial subjugation. Racial subjugation of Sikhs by the Hindu society is not a twentieth century phenomenon. There is a history of it and to deny that history is to deny justice and truth.
As I pointed out before we as Sikhs need to find a solution. If you have better solution we would all like to listen. However, we should not shy away or hoodwink the facts for the obedience and apologism towards Hinduism.
H Singh, we won't allow this thread to become a platform to cast blame upon entire religions or religious groups- such accusations are too simplistic and always false.
You can't blame an entire group for the crimes of some of its members. Don't forget that Hindu neighbors coming to the rescue of their Sikh neighbors (including in one of the stories in the above post) in Delhi's pogroms and that a few Sikh army members were involved in attacking the Darbar Sahib in Operation Bluestar.
Jodha pointed out that 'states are greater than individuals' and it's true that individuals in positions of power can and did control state machinery. But this shouldn't be attributed to an entire religious community.
You've made your opinion heard, H Singh. If you have nothing new or productive to say, we'll have to delete your comments repeating the same point.
H Singh, we won’t allow this thread to become a platform to cast blame upon entire religions or religious groups- such accusations are too simplistic and always false.
You can’t blame an entire group for the crimes of some of its members. Don’t forget that Hindu neighbors coming to the rescue of their Sikh neighbors (including in one of the stories in the above post) in Delhi’s pogroms and that a few Sikh army members were involved in attacking the Darbar Sahib in Operation Bluestar.
Jodha pointed out that ‘states are greater than individuals’ and it’s true that individuals in positions of power can and did control state machinery. But this shouldn’t be attributed to an entire religious community.
You’ve made your opinion heard, H Singh. If you have nothing new or productive to say, we’ll have to delete your comments repeating the same point.
Dear Admin,
You are mis implying my point. This argument is not about blaming Hindus but about looking at elements which are usually ignored because of ideological obedience.
I agree with you and Reema that individuals committed crimes against Sikhs and they are responsible for it but no State can perform crimes WITHOUT the widespread support and consent of its members. Does that mean all of them are responsible? NO!
States have always required mass support from its citizens to exterminate a race or a religion. Nazis were responsible for the Genocide against Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Slavs and many more but the support of Germans was crucial for Nazis to commit crimes on an industrial scale. In Rwandan Genocide Hutus butchered Tutsis in cold blood and many Hutus heroically saved Tutsis. However, all of this doesn’t ignore the element of mass-support from the mainstream population in Genocides.
The Genocide of Sikhs in India also has a very similar parallel.
The impulse of Genocidal retaliation against Sikhs for their autonomy, independent homeland and even their distinct existence can still be observed easily from all sections of Hindu Society, and this can’t not be ignored- if we honestly want to understand 1984 and prevent another 1984.
Any excuse for its denial is simply ignorance.
Dear Admin,
You are mis implying my point. This argument is not about blaming Hindus but about looking at elements which are usually ignored because of ideological obedience.
I agree with you and Reema that individuals committed crimes against Sikhs and they are responsible for it but no State can perform crimes WITHOUT the widespread support and consent of its members. Does that mean all of them are responsible? NO!
States have always required mass support from its citizens to exterminate a race or a religion. Nazis were responsible for the Genocide against Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Slavs and many more but the support of Germans was crucial for Nazis to commit crimes on an industrial scale. In Rwandan Genocide Hutus butchered Tutsis in cold blood and many Hutus heroically saved Tutsis. However, all of this doesn’t ignore the element of mass-support from the mainstream population in Genocides.
The Genocide of Sikhs in India also has a very similar parallel.
The impulse of Genocidal retaliation against Sikhs for their autonomy, independent homeland and even their distinct existence can still be observed easily from all sections of Hindu Society, and this can’t not be ignored- if we honestly want to understand 1984 and prevent another 1984.
Any excuse for its denial is simply ignorance.
I grew up during British occupation of India. I was an admirer of Gandhi and Nehru. During 1942/1943 Gandhi asked students to work the spinning wheel half an hour daily. I did that for several months.
!984 gave me a big jolt. From initial reports – knowing very little about Punjab politics (I moved to the United States in 1965) – I thought the Government of India was forced to take the terrible action to get rid of some trouble makers led by Sant Bhindranwale. At the conference in Madison Square Gardens (July 1984) I acquired a few tapes of recordings of Sant Bhindranwale's speeches. Listening to these tapes I discovered to my surprise that he never advocated attacks on innocent people, never demanded Khalistan, never preached haterd, asked Sikhs to be good Sikhs, taught Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's message, and sought justice for his men who had been subjected to torture at police stations. This prompted me to collect more of his recorded speeches. I translated the ones I was able to get hold of. Because of my background of admiration for Nehru-Gandhi, I wondered why Indira would commit such a hienous act. I researched this issue and included an introductory essay in the book "Struggle for Justice: Speeches and Conversations of Sant Bhindranwale".
I would suggest that participants in this discussion take the time to read my book. They will find answers to many of their questions.
I grew up during British occupation of India. I was an admirer of Gandhi and Nehru. During 1942/1943 Gandhi asked students to work the spinning wheel half an hour daily. I did that for several months.
!984 gave me a big jolt. From initial reports – knowing very little about Punjab politics (I moved to the United States in 1965) – I thought the Government of India was forced to take the terrible action to get rid of some trouble makers led by Sant Bhindranwale. At the conference in Madison Square Gardens (July 1984) I acquired a few tapes of recordings of Sant Bhindranwale’s speeches. Listening to these tapes I discovered to my surprise that he never advocated attacks on innocent people, never demanded Khalistan, never preached haterd, asked Sikhs to be good Sikhs, taught Guru Gobind Singh Sahib’s message, and sought justice for his men who had been subjected to torture at police stations. This prompted me to collect more of his recorded speeches. I translated the ones I was able to get hold of. Because of my background of admiration for Nehru-Gandhi, I wondered why Indira would commit such a hienous act. I researched this issue and included an introductory essay in the book “Struggle for Justice: Speeches and Conversations of Sant Bhindranwale”.
I would suggest that participants in this discussion take the time to read my book. They will find answers to many of their questions.
Thanks for sharing these perspectives–very moving!
Thanks for sharing these perspectives–very moving!
Examples of other Genocide which have not got justices or partial or sham justices :-
Casuality Time
1)European coloniztion of Americas:-100,00000(one crore)-1492
2)Depopulation of
Australian aborigines:——- 200,000 1788
3)Herero and Namaqua genocide:– 40,000 1904
4)Holodomor Ukraine :— 250,000 1932
5)Nanking Massacre :——— 100,000 1937
6)Genocides of Nazi Germany :– 60,00000(sixty lakh) 1941
7)Balkans Serbs, Jews, Roma :—- 400,000 1941
8)West Papuans :——— 100,000 1961
9)Mayan Indians :——— 100,000 1962
10)1971 Bangladesh atrocities :—- 25,000 1971
11)Massacres of Hutus :——— 50,000 1972
12)Cambodia Khmer Rouge :— 200,000 1975
13)East Timorese :——— 300,000 1975
14)Al-Anfal Campaign :——— 100,000 1986
15)Massacres of Tutsis :——— 50,000 1993
16)Rwandan genocide :——— 800,000 1994
17)Srebenica massacre :——– 8000 1995
We SIKHS can have a comparitive statetment.
Welcome to the planet EARTH my brother SIKHS.
"JUSTICE IS A DISTANT DREAM"
for a utopian world
It all depends upon the
Examples of other Genocide which have not got justices or partial or sham justices :-
Casuality Time
1)European coloniztion of Americas:-100,00000(one crore)-1492
2)Depopulation of
Australian aborigines:——- 200,000 1788
3)Herero and Namaqua genocide:– 40,000 1904
4)Holodomor Ukraine :— 250,000 1932
5)Nanking Massacre :——— 100,000 1937
6)Genocides of Nazi Germany :– 60,00000(sixty lakh) 1941
7)Balkans Serbs, Jews, Roma :—- 400,000 1941
8)West Papuans :——— 100,000 1961
9)Mayan Indians :——— 100,000 1962
10)1971 Bangladesh atrocities :—- 25,000 1971
11)Massacres of Hutus :——— 50,000 1972
12)Cambodia Khmer Rouge :— 200,000 1975
13)East Timorese :——— 300,000 1975
14)Al-Anfal Campaign :——— 100,000 1986
15)Massacres of Tutsis :——— 50,000 1993
16)Rwandan genocide :——— 800,000 1994
17)Srebenica massacre :——– 8000 1995
We SIKHS can have a comparitive statetment.
Welcome to the planet EARTH my brother SIKHS.
“JUSTICE IS A DISTANT DREAM”
for a utopian world
It all depends upon the
Keep a steady eye
On what lies ahead;
Waste no time
On what is past!
GGS, M5, 1096:12
To Admin:
Why is exposing Hindutva-Brahminist terror in India and the communities (e.g. "Brahminists") sponsoring it a "conspiracy theory"? It more like "connecting the dots".
When did it become a conspiracy theory (CT) to state a simple fact that "Nazi-Germans killed Jews"? Neither is it a CT to state that "fascist Brahminists" have been behind the 1984 Sikh killings (Amritsar, Delhi), Muslim killings (Kashmir, Babri Masjid, Mumbai, Gujarat), Christian killings, etc.
Then, we find over the past 5 decades Brahminist leaders amd politicians in India repeatedly sending armies to attack and crush "Indians" in Assam, Manipur, Tripura, Kashmir, Punjab instead of addressing their legitimate concerns and rights!
There is a pattern, a fascist supremacist mindset, dillusional historical fantasies, racist doctrines, violence . . . behind their actions and behaviors. To understand the output, you have to understand the code.