Sikh Youth Conference on Remembering 1984
The topic of 1984 is hardly new in The Langar Hall and despite protestations from some amnesia-desiring commenters, we will not forget the Shaheeds of Darbar Sahib, the pograms in Delhi, the Ghallughara against the Sikhs from 1978-1995, or even the continuing impunity that continues today.
We have highlighted many events in the past and we will contine to do so.
In that spirit, I strongly urge TLH readers to attend this year’s Jakara Movement conference in Fresno, CA from June 18-21st. A number of invited guests’ names will be announced in the upcoming week. The title of the conference is “Remember 1984: reflect. respond. react.”
2009 | 1984 | 25 years | No justice | No memory | No history | No people
Despite the fact that many wish to forget the events that befell and have shaped the Sikh Nation, it is vital for the ‘next generation of Sikhs’ to be aware of our past and understand how it shapes our present and our future. While twenty-five years have passed since the attack on our sacred home, much has changed and much has remained the same. For the Nishan Sahib of our Nation to remain tall, it is for us to study our history, remember the past, and continue the fight for justice.
This year at Jakara, we will Remember 1984 and celebrate those Kaurs and Singhs that made the ultimate sacrifice for our Qaum.
Join us in Fresno as we Remember 1984: Reflect. Respond. React.
Register here TODAY and avoid a late fee. Below the fold you’ll find the agenda. See you there!
2009 conference agenda
Wednesday
3pm – Facilitator Check-In
Thursday
6–11:30pm Attendee Check–In
7pm – Beginning Ardas and Langar at Gurdwara Singh Sabha Fresno
7:30–8:30pm – Diwan at Gurdwara Sahib
9–12am – Ice Breaker / Lazer Tag
Friday
6–10am Continental Breakfast by Holiday Inn
8–9am Japji Sahib and Shabad Kirtan
10–10:30am Welcome/Introductions
10:30–12pm Remembering (A Contemporary Analogy)
12–1pm Presentations
1–2pm Lunch
2–3:30pm Reconnecting (Hearing the Voices)
3:30–5pm Reflecting (Gurbani Vichar)
5–6pm Recalling (Video)
6-6:30pm Conclusion
6:30–7pm Rehraas Sahib
7–9:30pm Picnic & Dinner at the Park
8:30pm Revering (Candelight Vigil for the Shaheeds)
10–11:00pm Movie Screening
11:30-1:30pm Bowling & Pool Activity
Saturday
6–10am Continental Breakfast by Holiday Inn
9–10am Japji Sahib and Shabad Kirtan
10:30–11:30am Recognizing (Understanding the legacy on the Sikh Diaspora)
11:30–1pm Reaffirming (Creating a 1984 Charter)
1–2pm Lunch
2–2:45pm Recollecting (Panel Discussion)
2:45–3:15pm Reacting (Open Forum)
3:15–4pm Responding (Ways to Get involved)
4–5pm Realizing (Making a New Reality)
5–5:30pm Conclusion
5:30–6pm Rehraas Sahib
7–12am Formal Banquet & Talent Show
Sunday
9–10am Japji Sahib and Shabad Kirtan
12–3pm Closing Banquet
70 Responses to “Sikh Youth Conference on Remembering 1984”
Good on you.
What are you guys doing for Sikhs currently suffering persecution in SWAT valley at the hands of Taliban?
Check out this petition along the same vein – http://www.nov1984.org
Good on you.
What are you guys doing for Sikhs currently suffering persecution in SWAT valley at the hands of Taliban?
Check out this petition along the same vein – http://www.nov1984.org
IAS,
Bringing awareness by providing a Sikh-forum for people like you and others to discuss it.
IAS,
Bringing awareness by providing a Sikh-forum for people like you and others to discuss it.
awareness is cool but what next? hopefully, the current situation there won't become another 1984 that our kids will be whining on another sikh-forum like this 25 years from now.
I shouldn't have said 'whining'. That was wrong on my part. I apologize.
I should've said that hopefully, our kids won't have to reflect back on what is happening now in Swat Valley 25 years from now as we are reflecting back on 1984. 1984 was a genocide that cannot be forgotten but it can serve as a reminder for us to not let any such thing be repeated again.
Don't get played into crooked politicians' hands. Don't get influenced by propaganda of hate. Don't let biased media misguide you. Instead, remain true to our Gurus' teachings and principles. etc. etc. I've made my point clear plenty times by now. I shall rest my case for now.
Sat sri akal ji.
Hopefully, nothing tragic should ever befall you so that others aren't as indifferent to your pain and suffering and use words like 'whining'.
You are an Indian nationalist, great. The world needs more blind, uncritical nationalists!
IAS,
Sorry about my last comment. Your new one just appeared and I apologize as well.
We can find points of agreement.
Fateh.
awareness is cool but what next? hopefully, the current situation there won’t become another 1984 that our kids will be whining on another sikh-forum like this 25 years from now.
I shouldn’t have said ‘whining’. That was wrong on my part. I apologize.
I should’ve said that hopefully, our kids won’t have to reflect back on what is happening now in Swat Valley 25 years from now as we are reflecting back on 1984. 1984 was a genocide that cannot be forgotten but it can serve as a reminder for us to not let any such thing be repeated again.
Don’t get played into crooked politicians’ hands. Don’t get influenced by propaganda of hate. Don’t let biased media misguide you. Instead, remain true to our Gurus’ teachings and principles. etc. etc. I’ve made my point clear plenty times by now. I shall rest my case for now.
Sat sri akal ji.
Hopefully, nothing tragic should ever befall you so that others aren’t as indifferent to your pain and suffering and use words like ‘whining’.
You are an Indian nationalist, great. The world needs more blind, uncritical nationalists!
IAS,
Sorry about my last comment. Your new one just appeared and I apologize as well.
We can find points of agreement.
Fateh.
OO this is awesome, can't make it, but wish whoever is doing this the best and thanks for doing it; khalsa one love: our brothers gave their lives for what they believed in. Mahan Gursikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Shaheed uttered Gurmantar till the end. Remember everyone, if our brothers were put to this test, we might be to, in Ardas always ask that we never walk off the path of truth, no matter what! OO and regarding all this talk of "this is against peace and should be forgotten," Brothers and Sisters just remember when the matter of giving up your life or standing up for your faith comes up, there are only a few that are willing; the rest just make up petty excuses and arguments. Same thing happened when the Sixth father introduced arms, those individuals whom became Sikhs for the Rotis and Prashad all ran away and started saying how Guru Sahib has turned away from the teachings of the previous Gurus. These individuals who argue that we should stop remembering the Shaheeds and just forget, have the same ideologies of those people who departed the Sixth father (Miri Piri de Malakh), only in a modern fashion.
OO this is awesome, can’t make it, but wish whoever is doing this the best and thanks for doing it; khalsa one love: our brothers gave their lives for what they believed in. Mahan Gursikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Shaheed uttered Gurmantar till the end. Remember everyone, if our brothers were put to this test, we might be to, in Ardas always ask that we never walk off the path of truth, no matter what! OO and regarding all this talk of “this is against peace and should be forgotten,” Brothers and Sisters just remember when the matter of giving up your life or standing up for your faith comes up, there are only a few that are willing; the rest just make up petty excuses and arguments. Same thing happened when the Sixth father introduced arms, those individuals whom became Sikhs for the Rotis and Prashad all ran away and started saying how Guru Sahib has turned away from the teachings of the previous Gurus. These individuals who argue that we should stop remembering the Shaheeds and just forget, have the same ideologies of those people who departed the Sixth father (Miri Piri de Malakh), only in a modern fashion.
I'm so glad to know of this conference and of this organization. I look forward to participating. Perhaps there can be a TLH meetup!
I’m so glad to know of this conference and of this organization. I look forward to participating. Perhaps there can be a TLH meetup!
'whining' disgusting. Indian assumes everyone visiting this forum is sitting abroad and has never experienced 84 first hand. There are visitors to this site that have watched there families raped and butchered in front of there eyes! Pregnant women and infants weren't spared. indian backs kp gill fully in her other post. Jodha ji what point of agreement can you find with this imposter. indian can't understand Sikh unity, how we feel dukh and sukh of each other because she has never felt the love and belonging of the Panth.
‘whining’ disgusting. Indian assumes everyone visiting this forum is sitting abroad and has never experienced 84 first hand. There are visitors to this site that have watched there families raped and butchered in front of there eyes! Pregnant women and infants weren’t spared. indian backs kp gill fully in her other post. Jodha ji what point of agreement can you find with this imposter. indian can’t understand Sikh unity, how we feel dukh and sukh of each other because she has never felt the love and belonging of the Panth.
I did apologize, kaur, if you failed to read the comment. Given your biased tone, I can understand why you chose to omit acknowledging it when clearly others did acknowledge my apology.
As for KPS Gill, I don't back him at all. I said that he did whatever the best he could do in his role as an officer assigned to eliminate terrorism. The route he took was terrible but … was there any other choice? None of us know. No one knows what was right or wrong. It is not a case of black and white as you make it out to be. Situation is far more complex that what it appears from a distance.
I do feel that Sikhs were wronged. I also feel Muslims were wronged in Gujarat and so were Christians in Orissa recently. I also believe strongly that the culprits of 1984 should be brought to justice. It's unfortunate that it hasn't happened yet but cases like that are never brought to justice in India. Reason for that goes beyond discrimination against minorities. The entire political system there is corrupt. It needs a proper cleansing and it has to start with the people who vote (or choose not to vote). It has to happen with people stopping to feed into the system of bribery etc.
Therefore, my point of disagreements with this site are only and only these:
-Instead of viewing Indian govt's inability to bring 1984 culprits to justice as a discrimination against a particular sect, view it as a system failure due to widespread corruption that has rotten the system dry completely. Approach this situation from that angle and have community leaders negotiate with leaders at the center from that point of view instead of religiously charged agenda.
-Also, question as to why people of Punjab voted for Congress (responsible for 1984) in the past and are still voting for it? Also, why is Akali Dal (the ruling party of Punjab) forming alliances with BJP (the Hindu extremist party) to remain in power?
I hope what I wrote above was read with a rational mind and not that of a zealot. I am sure many of you here are capable of a rational discussion.
I did apologize, kaur, if you failed to read the comment. Given your biased tone, I can understand why you chose to omit acknowledging it when clearly others did acknowledge my apology.
As for KPS Gill, I don’t back him at all. I said that he did whatever the best he could do in his role as an officer assigned to eliminate terrorism. The route he took was terrible but … was there any other choice? None of us know. No one knows what was right or wrong. It is not a case of black and white as you make it out to be. Situation is far more complex that what it appears from a distance.
I do feel that Sikhs were wronged. I also feel Muslims were wronged in Gujarat and so were Christians in Orissa recently. I also believe strongly that the culprits of 1984 should be brought to justice. It’s unfortunate that it hasn’t happened yet but cases like that are never brought to justice in India. Reason for that goes beyond discrimination against minorities. The entire political system there is corrupt. It needs a proper cleansing and it has to start with the people who vote (or choose not to vote). It has to happen with people stopping to feed into the system of bribery etc.
Therefore, my point of disagreements with this site are only and only these:
-Instead of viewing Indian govt’s inability to bring 1984 culprits to justice as a discrimination against a particular sect, view it as a system failure due to widespread corruption that has rotten the system dry completely. Approach this situation from that angle and have community leaders negotiate with leaders at the center from that point of view instead of religiously charged agenda.
-Also, question as to why people of Punjab voted for Congress (responsible for 1984) in the past and are still voting for it? Also, why is Akali Dal (the ruling party of Punjab) forming alliances with BJP (the Hindu extremist party) to remain in power?
I hope what I wrote above was read with a rational mind and not that of a zealot. I am sure many of you here are capable of a rational discussion.
Here we go again with "Indian Sikh" adding her two cents to the article. KPS Gill was a cold blooded murderer because he only went after Sikh men wearing keski or kirpans. To me she seems like one of those people who will comment on everything relating to the Sikh religion but, she doesn't even have enough guts to take Amrit and become a true daughter of the Sikh Panth. There are many reasons why the Indian government attacked the Golden Temple, but among them the main reasons for the attack was simply to destroy Sikhism at its roots. In order to understand this it is important to first look at how Sikh/Hindu relations started. Hindus have been against Sikhism since the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, most notably the Brahmins (upper caste Hindus) because Sikhism rejects the idea of a caste system. It teaches equality for all and declares women equal to men. Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached the message of One God, which is totally against Hinduism. So Hindus, mostly Brahmins (the upper class Hindus), turned against Sikhism. During the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji not only Brahmins but also other castes turned against Sikhism. Guru Ji established Khalsa and everyone was given full rights and everyone was required to sit together and eat Langar. Brahmins didn't like lower caste people sitting equally to them and second and third class people didn't like lower class people taking up arms for self-defense under the command of Guru Ji. Guru Ji not only fought Moughals but also Hindu kings who were jealous of Guru Ji's power. Hindus always betrayed Sikhs. After the British annexed the Sikh Kingdom, a Hindu sect Arya Samaj turned against Sikhs and tried to declare that Sikhs were actually Hindus and Sikhism was just another sect of Hinduism. For a while this anti-Sikh propaganda slowed, but with the gaining of Indian independence, the Hindus once again resumed and increased their negative activities. While under British control Gandhi and Nehru promised Sikhs that they would have full rights and freedom. They also stated that Sikhs would have the rights to rule Punjab without any interference from the government and that no laws would be passed without discussing them with Sikhs. Gandhi said "You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh." But as soon as the British left India Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Sikhs were declared as traitors of India.
On top of this when the Indian constitution was written Sikhs refused to sign it in the parliament house because Sikhs were declared “Hindus with long hair.” Gandhi told Sikhs that if they cut their hair and give up their faith and joined the Hindus, they would be given the full right and hired at the jobs (the very same liberties which were denied them) but Sikhs refused to do so.
The Indian government broke all of their promises and forgot all about the liberties the Sikhs had essentially won for India. When Nehru was asked about creating a separate Punjabi state, he brushed it off by saying "Circumstances have changed now." When China attacked India, it was the Sikhs who saved Nehru's life but he still thought of Sikhs as his enemies and mistreated them. Sikhs fought bravely against Pakistan in the wars of 1965 and 1971, yet the Indian government paid no attention to Sikhs' loyalty. When Pakistan army agreed to surrender, Hindu officers were sent to sign the negotiation instead of Sikhs. At this the Muslims of Pakistan refused to surrender saying that "brave people (Muslims) surrender only to brave people (Sikhs)." So Pakistan surrendered to the Sikhs, but Indian television did not show this on the television. They showed only hands. Sikhs were not shown on TV. Despite their heroism and valor Sikhs were not even dignified with credit for their labors.
In 1978 the Indian government sent an agent, Gurbachan, to Punjab to disillusion and slowly destroy Sikhism. He started by speaking against Sikhism and insulting the Sikhs Holy Scripture Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sikhs could not tolerate this outrageous propaganda and they launched a peaceful march to stop him. But the agent called “Nirankari Gurbachan” had already had Indian troops with him and had ordered them to shoot Sikhs. 13 Sikhs were killed and most others were injured. No one was punished for this massacre and the government blamed Sikhs for the occurrence. This angered Sikhs and they rebelled against the Indian government. Then a religious leader, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, took power in the Sikh Quam and started a campaign to preaching Sikhism. He preached the truth and woke the Sikh nation. He openly spoke against the Indian government's activities against Sikhism. He said, "Many Sikhs have been killed by Indian government but not even a single case has been registered. But when a Hindu was killed by police, president Indira Gandhi herself came over to his house and gave his family a hundred thousand rupees and the police officer was punished. Is this not discrimination? Three Sikhs hijacked a passenger plane for the cause of religion and not even a single passenger was harmed, The Indian government declared them as terrorists and they were killed at the airport. But when Hindus hijacked a plane to free a jailed Indira Gandhi, they were given positions in the government and the government declared them as heroes after meeting their demands and letting a guilty Indira go free. Is this not discrimination?"
These messages influenced people very much. After hearing the truth, people started supporting Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale and a freedom movement rose. Many people became Sikhs. Sometimes, as many as 10,000 people would initiated into Sikhism at one ceremony. (At that time there was no mention of Khalistan.) Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and many political leaders launched a peaceful march. They wanted the Indian government to grant them full rights and treat them as first class citizens. An Anandpur Sahib resolution was brought to attention by Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, which included many demands for Punjab and Sikhs such as:
1. Regional autonomy for Punjab. (The Indian Government was interfering)
2. Return of Chandigarh to Punjab. (Chandigarh was split as a duel capital for two states)
3. Special status for Sikhs in the Indian union. (Sikhs were called “long haired Hindus” not Sikhs)
4. A Supreme Court review of Punjab river waters, (Punjab’s water was being sent to other states)
5. Return of the Punjabi speaking areas to Punjab, (The government split Punjab into many separate states)
6. Provision of a fare share of electricity to Punjab, (Electricity was being split and not provided fairly to Punjab)
7. Declaring Amritsar a Holy City (Hindu and Buddhists Cities were named “holy cities” but the center of Sikhism was not given such a status)
and some other religious demands.
The Indian government paid no attention to Sikh concerns and began arresting Sikhs blindly. About 150,000 Sikhs were arrested and many were killed- still not a single demand was met. Sant Jernail Singh said, "There is no solution to Sikhs' problems without freedom." Riots between Hindus and Sikhs broke out. When Sikhs were killed, police took no action but when Hindus were killed, not only victims were punished but also innocent Sikhs were killed. In other states of India many Sikhs were killed. All Sikhs traveling in trains and buses were stopped and killed. In Haryana, Hindus were called from villages by beating drums to kill Sikhs. Every train was stopped and Sikhs were dragged out and killed. At this point Sant Jarnail Singh was assured that the Indian government was making plans to attack the Golden Temple at Amritsar. He addressed the Sikhs and advised them to be ready to defend the Golden Temple. He said, "The day Indian government attacks the Golden Temple, foundation of Khalistan will be laid."
When the movement got out of the government's control, Punjab was handed over to the military. The Indian government had planned to attack Golden Temple in the first week of June because Martyr day of Fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev Ji was on June 6th and Indian government knew there was going to be a big Sikh gathering. The Government knew that Sikhs would gather in thousands. Punjab was totally under military control. A curfew was announced. Telephone lines were cut and all press reporters were asked to leave Punjab. Punjab was completely disconnected from the rest of the world. The entire state was surrounded by troops and all paths were blocked. Nobody was allowed to enter or leave. All the Sikhs were being harassed all over India.
On May 31st the Indian government launched an attack on the Golden Temple with 500,000 troops. There were only 251 Sikhs inside to protect the complex of the Golden Temple. But it was not a big attack at first because Sikhs were coming to Golden Temple to celebrate Martyr day of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Sikhs held the army back for four days. Many troops lost their lives but not a single person of army could enter the Temple. Then the Indian government brought tanks and destroyed the Akaal Takhat Sahib, which is right in front of the Golden Temple. On June 6th, when all Sikh fighters became martyrs, the war was over and the Indian troops entered the temple. They did not even respect the holiness of the sacred place and entered with their shoes on, showing utter indecency. When Indian troops found that only 251 men had stopped them from entering the temple for 6 days they started killing innocent Sikhs who had come there to visit the Temple. This was to hide their humiliation. The small number of heroic Sikhs killed even the best of their army men. Sikhs in the temple were lined up and shot—dead, not even children were spared. About 50,000 Sikhs were killed that day. Priceless Sikh artifacts were burnt. All the Literature written by the Gurus was taken away by the army, but they claimed that it was burnt while bombing the Temple. The whole Amritsar city was burnt. Many visitors were killed and arrested. Sikhs' shops were looted and houses were burnt. Hindu mobs went to every Sikh house and burnt Sikhs alive, women were dishonored even pregnant Sikh women. Most Sikhs that were killed were between ages from 5 to 40. Their main target was young Sikh males. The Indian government feared that young Sikhs would rebel. They thought if they killed young Sikh men then there would be no Sikh marriages and in next 10 or 15 years the Sikh population would not increase and they would eventually die out.
Indian government started making excuses about why it had become necessary to attack Golden Temple. Indian government claimed that Sant Jarnail Singh and his companions were using the building as their hiding place and had kept deadly weapons inside the building. Furthermore, they said they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale and drive him out of Golden Temple. But my point is if they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale then why couldn't they arrest him when he preached all over India. He went to Bombay, Delhi and other major cities. So why couldn't the Indian government arrest him there? Why couldn't they arrest him at Mehta Choank? If the Golden Temple was attacked to drive out Sant Bhindranwale then why were other more than 50 Sikh temples attacked on the same day in Punjab by the army? Why were thousands of innocent people killed? Why did the government have to use tanks and heavy artillery to drive out few Sikhs? The truth is, it was a big plan of the Hindu government to destroy Sikhism and merge it into Hinduism. If you just look at what happened to Sikhs before 1984, it makes clear sense of why the Indian government attacked Golden Temple. Just look at the Olympic games of 1983 where no person with the last name "Singh" was allowed to enter in Delhi. If Bhindranwale was the target then why didn't the army leave Punjab right after it was over? Why was the literature burned? Why did Indian troops linger and disrespectfully smoke cigars inside the temple?
All of the visitors to the Golden Temple were arrested and they all starved to death because they were not given any food to eat not even a single drop of water. When someone asked for water, the army men said "Drink that blood on the floor. That's what you deserve. You deserve to die." Many visitors were locked up in the rooms for two days without any food, water, or electricity and they all starved to death. The Golden Temple remained under the army control for months. WHY?!!! Because Indian government wanted to put someone in charge who would support them. Using Sant Jarnail Singh's name was just a mere excuse. The truth is he was a real leader who openly spoke for the rights of Sikhs. In 1982, he had already said that Indian government was making plans to attack Golden Temple. Indian government built a model of Golden Temple in Dehradoon and the army was given special training.
When Sikhs in other states found out about the attack, they rebelled. Most of them who were in the Indian army and were far away from Punjab. They quickly left for Punjab and thwarted and killed many Hindus in power and officers. This put a stop to Indian army's mission of killing innocent Sikhs in Punjab. Indian government turned its attention to Sikh military and tried to stop them before they could reach Punjab. Many Sikhs were killed on the way and many were arrested. There are about 60,000 Sikhs in jails without any charge or trial. Five months later Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards. One of them became martyr at the spot and other was hanged later after severe tortures. About 5,000 Sikhs were killed in four days. The mobs were organized by the government officials. Every Hindu was given 500 rupees and one liquor bottle to kill Sikhs. Mobs were given addresses of Sikhs' houses and shops so that their property could be destroyed. No Hindu house was attacked, only Sikhs' houses were burned and Sikhs were killed and burned alive. Most young Sikh males were killed and many young Sikh females were dishonored.
After Operation Blue Star and the Sikh massacre in Delhi, Sikh rebellions took over Golden Temple in order to restore the respect and honor it was entitled to, but the Indian government didn't like this. They wanted the Golden Temple under their control. So another attack was launched on the Golden Temple in 1987, called "Operation Black Thunder". This time only Sikh rebellions were the main target. Thousands were killed and dead bodies lay inside the Holy place for many days. My father was a Ragi in the Golden Temple during that time. He tells of the brutality of the Indian government who refused to remove the bodies saying that, those dead bodies were Sikhs' and it was Sikhs' responsibility to remove them. According to my father, all employees of SGPC volunteered to remove the bodies. My father said the bodies lay there for days in the hot sun because it was summer time. The bodies were so rotten that when my father tried to pull one body by its arm, the skin came off in his hand. People could not even enter the Temple because of the smell. Many trucks were loaded with dead bodies and all were burned with kerosene oil.After the second attack, Sikhs organized themselves into a military power in order to fight the Indian government. These brave Sikhs avenged the massacre in Delhi and killed many traitors. Many Sikhs have left India to escape religious persecution. Sikhs have spread out all over the world to enjoy the freedom and have better lives. The Indian government has killed over 1 million to 1.2 million Sikhs since 1947 (figures according to "THE SIKHS IN HISTORY" by Dr. Sangat Singh). Indian government has also killed 50,000 Christians and 100,000 Muslims. In November 1984 following the assassination of Indira Gandhi, mobs lead by Congress leaders committed murder, loot, arson and rape, across India for over a week, however the worst effected area was the capital of India Delhi.
Due to the large span of area the actual number of those dead is unknown, official figures of those who died are over 4000 and 60,000 were rendered homeless in Delhi alone, these figures to not incorporate those “missing”.
“India is ablaze with hate and anger. In city after city from one corner of the country to the other enraged mobs have gone and are going about systematically burning and looting Sikh properties and assaulting Sikhs without discrimination.” 1The Times of India
“Sikhs were sought out and burned to death. Children were killed, shops looted, cars burnt, markets destroyed, houses gutted. Trains were stopped and Sikhs were picked out and murdered.” Akbar M.J.
“Around 300 Sikh officers and men in uniform were done to death in the presence of non-Sikh soldiers, who stood as silent spectators.”
Police officers “stood by and watched arson, rape, looting and murder, without making any attempt to intervene to protect citizens brlonging to the Sikh minority, without attempting to dissuade the attackers to call for reinforcements or other support, or even to inform the fire brigade.”
“Many people complained that, in some cases, the police were not merely hanging back, but giving active support.”
“We started from the foot paths after the 1947 Partition, now we get back to it in our old age” wept an old couple, they had been deprived of all their belongings and also a young son.
Listen Indian Sikh, clearly your not able or willing to consider things from our perspective, and neither are we from your logic or whatever. I think there is no point in continuing to argue, this isn't a discussion anymore. So perhaps ceasing any further talk regarding 1984 between you and the rest is the best option. I am not judging your thoughts/beliefs, I am just saying we're not getting anywhere and this has went far enough, so it stops here for me…
Khalsa Sikh, brother there isn't no point in trying to argue with Indian Sikh. She won't be able to see things from our views or we from her's. Khalsa Sikh Bro, don't worry, just remember THIS IS NOTHING NEW. The cycle has always came on us, first the Moghuls, then the Afghans; after the demise of this enemy, more will arise, but in the end, Dasam Father will lead us to victory. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh: “We will not cause any hurdle to a just rule, but if an evil regime tries to destroy our religion and its practices, with the support of Satguru, Akaal Purakh, we will shake its very roots.” No one truly wanted Khalistan, just equality, but, there won't be anymore bargaining.
Here we go again with “Indian Sikh” adding her two cents to the article. KPS Gill was a cold blooded murderer because he only went after Sikh men wearing keski or kirpans. To me she seems like one of those people who will comment on everything relating to the Sikh religion but, she doesn’t even have enough guts to take Amrit and become a true daughter of the Sikh Panth. There are many reasons why the Indian government attacked the Golden Temple, but among them the main reasons for the attack was simply to destroy Sikhism at its roots. In order to understand this it is important to first look at how Sikh/Hindu relations started. Hindus have been against Sikhism since the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, most notably the Brahmins (upper caste Hindus) because Sikhism rejects the idea of a caste system. It teaches equality for all and declares women equal to men. Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached the message of One God, which is totally against Hinduism. So Hindus, mostly Brahmins (the upper class Hindus), turned against Sikhism. During the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji not only Brahmins but also other castes turned against Sikhism. Guru Ji established Khalsa and everyone was given full rights and everyone was required to sit together and eat Langar. Brahmins didn’t like lower caste people sitting equally to them and second and third class people didn’t like lower class people taking up arms for self-defense under the command of Guru Ji. Guru Ji not only fought Moughals but also Hindu kings who were jealous of Guru Ji’s power. Hindus always betrayed Sikhs. After the British annexed the Sikh Kingdom, a Hindu sect Arya Samaj turned against Sikhs and tried to declare that Sikhs were actually Hindus and Sikhism was just another sect of Hinduism. For a while this anti-Sikh propaganda slowed, but with the gaining of Indian independence, the Hindus once again resumed and increased their negative activities. While under British control Gandhi and Nehru promised Sikhs that they would have full rights and freedom. They also stated that Sikhs would have the rights to rule Punjab without any interference from the government and that no laws would be passed without discussing them with Sikhs. Gandhi said “You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh.” But as soon as the British left India Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Sikhs were declared as traitors of India.
On top of this when the Indian constitution was written Sikhs refused to sign it in the parliament house because Sikhs were declared “Hindus with long hair.” Gandhi told Sikhs that if they cut their hair and give up their faith and joined the Hindus, they would be given the full right and hired at the jobs (the very same liberties which were denied them) but Sikhs refused to do so.
The Indian government broke all of their promises and forgot all about the liberties the Sikhs had essentially won for India. When Nehru was asked about creating a separate Punjabi state, he brushed it off by saying “Circumstances have changed now.” When China attacked India, it was the Sikhs who saved Nehru’s life but he still thought of Sikhs as his enemies and mistreated them. Sikhs fought bravely against Pakistan in the wars of 1965 and 1971, yet the Indian government paid no attention to Sikhs’ loyalty. When Pakistan army agreed to surrender, Hindu officers were sent to sign the negotiation instead of Sikhs. At this the Muslims of Pakistan refused to surrender saying that “brave people (Muslims) surrender only to brave people (Sikhs).” So Pakistan surrendered to the Sikhs, but Indian television did not show this on the television. They showed only hands. Sikhs were not shown on TV. Despite their heroism and valor Sikhs were not even dignified with credit for their labors.
In 1978 the Indian government sent an agent, Gurbachan, to Punjab to disillusion and slowly destroy Sikhism. He started by speaking against Sikhism and insulting the Sikhs Holy Scripture Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sikhs could not tolerate this outrageous propaganda and they launched a peaceful march to stop him. But the agent called “Nirankari Gurbachan” had already had Indian troops with him and had ordered them to shoot Sikhs. 13 Sikhs were killed and most others were injured. No one was punished for this massacre and the government blamed Sikhs for the occurrence. This angered Sikhs and they rebelled against the Indian government. Then a religious leader, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, took power in the Sikh Quam and started a campaign to preaching Sikhism. He preached the truth and woke the Sikh nation. He openly spoke against the Indian government’s activities against Sikhism. He said, “Many Sikhs have been killed by Indian government but not even a single case has been registered. But when a Hindu was killed by police, president Indira Gandhi herself came over to his house and gave his family a hundred thousand rupees and the police officer was punished. Is this not discrimination? Three Sikhs hijacked a passenger plane for the cause of religion and not even a single passenger was harmed, The Indian government declared them as terrorists and they were killed at the airport. But when Hindus hijacked a plane to free a jailed Indira Gandhi, they were given positions in the government and the government declared them as heroes after meeting their demands and letting a guilty Indira go free. Is this not discrimination?”
These messages influenced people very much. After hearing the truth, people started supporting Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale and a freedom movement rose. Many people became Sikhs. Sometimes, as many as 10,000 people would initiated into Sikhism at one ceremony. (At that time there was no mention of Khalistan.) Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and many political leaders launched a peaceful march. They wanted the Indian government to grant them full rights and treat them as first class citizens. An Anandpur Sahib resolution was brought to attention by Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, which included many demands for Punjab and Sikhs such as:
1. Regional autonomy for Punjab. (The Indian Government was interfering)
2. Return of Chandigarh to Punjab. (Chandigarh was split as a duel capital for two states)
3. Special status for Sikhs in the Indian union. (Sikhs were called “long haired Hindus” not Sikhs)
4. A Supreme Court review of Punjab river waters, (Punjab’s water was being sent to other states)
5. Return of the Punjabi speaking areas to Punjab, (The government split Punjab into many separate states)
6. Provision of a fare share of electricity to Punjab, (Electricity was being split and not provided fairly to Punjab)
7. Declaring Amritsar a Holy City (Hindu and Buddhists Cities were named “holy cities” but the center of Sikhism was not given such a status)
and some other religious demands.
The Indian government paid no attention to Sikh concerns and began arresting Sikhs blindly. About 150,000 Sikhs were arrested and many were killed- still not a single demand was met. Sant Jernail Singh said, “There is no solution to Sikhs’ problems without freedom.” Riots between Hindus and Sikhs broke out. When Sikhs were killed, police took no action but when Hindus were killed, not only victims were punished but also innocent Sikhs were killed. In other states of India many Sikhs were killed. All Sikhs traveling in trains and buses were stopped and killed. In Haryana, Hindus were called from villages by beating drums to kill Sikhs. Every train was stopped and Sikhs were dragged out and killed. At this point Sant Jarnail Singh was assured that the Indian government was making plans to attack the Golden Temple at Amritsar. He addressed the Sikhs and advised them to be ready to defend the Golden Temple. He said, “The day Indian government attacks the Golden Temple, foundation of Khalistan will be laid.”
When the movement got out of the government’s control, Punjab was handed over to the military. The Indian government had planned to attack Golden Temple in the first week of June because Martyr day of Fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev Ji was on June 6th and Indian government knew there was going to be a big Sikh gathering. The Government knew that Sikhs would gather in thousands. Punjab was totally under military control. A curfew was announced. Telephone lines were cut and all press reporters were asked to leave Punjab. Punjab was completely disconnected from the rest of the world. The entire state was surrounded by troops and all paths were blocked. Nobody was allowed to enter or leave. All the Sikhs were being harassed all over India.
On May 31st the Indian government launched an attack on the Golden Temple with 500,000 troops. There were only 251 Sikhs inside to protect the complex of the Golden Temple. But it was not a big attack at first because Sikhs were coming to Golden Temple to celebrate Martyr day of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Sikhs held the army back for four days. Many troops lost their lives but not a single person of army could enter the Temple. Then the Indian government brought tanks and destroyed the Akaal Takhat Sahib, which is right in front of the Golden Temple. On June 6th, when all Sikh fighters became martyrs, the war was over and the Indian troops entered the temple. They did not even respect the holiness of the sacred place and entered with their shoes on, showing utter indecency. When Indian troops found that only 251 men had stopped them from entering the temple for 6 days they started killing innocent Sikhs who had come there to visit the Temple. This was to hide their humiliation. The small number of heroic Sikhs killed even the best of their army men. Sikhs in the temple were lined up and shot—dead, not even children were spared. About 50,000 Sikhs were killed that day. Priceless Sikh artifacts were burnt. All the Literature written by the Gurus was taken away by the army, but they claimed that it was burnt while bombing the Temple. The whole Amritsar city was burnt. Many visitors were killed and arrested. Sikhs’ shops were looted and houses were burnt. Hindu mobs went to every Sikh house and burnt Sikhs alive, women were dishonored even pregnant Sikh women. Most Sikhs that were killed were between ages from 5 to 40. Their main target was young Sikh males. The Indian government feared that young Sikhs would rebel. They thought if they killed young Sikh men then there would be no Sikh marriages and in next 10 or 15 years the Sikh population would not increase and they would eventually die out.
Indian government started making excuses about why it had become necessary to attack Golden Temple. Indian government claimed that Sant Jarnail Singh and his companions were using the building as their hiding place and had kept deadly weapons inside the building. Furthermore, they said they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale and drive him out of Golden Temple. But my point is if they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale then why couldn’t they arrest him when he preached all over India. He went to Bombay, Delhi and other major cities. So why couldn’t the Indian government arrest him there? Why couldn’t they arrest him at Mehta Choank? If the Golden Temple was attacked to drive out Sant Bhindranwale then why were other more than 50 Sikh temples attacked on the same day in Punjab by the army? Why were thousands of innocent people killed? Why did the government have to use tanks and heavy artillery to drive out few Sikhs? The truth is, it was a big plan of the Hindu government to destroy Sikhism and merge it into Hinduism. If you just look at what happened to Sikhs before 1984, it makes clear sense of why the Indian government attacked Golden Temple. Just look at the Olympic games of 1983 where no person with the last name “Singh” was allowed to enter in Delhi. If Bhindranwale was the target then why didn’t the army leave Punjab right after it was over? Why was the literature burned? Why did Indian troops linger and disrespectfully smoke cigars inside the temple?
All of the visitors to the Golden Temple were arrested and they all starved to death because they were not given any food to eat not even a single drop of water. When someone asked for water, the army men said “Drink that blood on the floor. That’s what you deserve. You deserve to die.” Many visitors were locked up in the rooms for two days without any food, water, or electricity and they all starved to death. The Golden Temple remained under the army control for months. WHY?!!! Because Indian government wanted to put someone in charge who would support them. Using Sant Jarnail Singh’s name was just a mere excuse. The truth is he was a real leader who openly spoke for the rights of Sikhs. In 1982, he had already said that Indian government was making plans to attack Golden Temple. Indian government built a model of Golden Temple in Dehradoon and the army was given special training.
When Sikhs in other states found out about the attack, they rebelled. Most of them who were in the Indian army and were far away from Punjab. They quickly left for Punjab and thwarted and killed many Hindus in power and officers. This put a stop to Indian army’s mission of killing innocent Sikhs in Punjab. Indian government turned its attention to Sikh military and tried to stop them before they could reach Punjab. Many Sikhs were killed on the way and many were arrested. There are about 60,000 Sikhs in jails without any charge or trial. Five months later Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards. One of them became martyr at the spot and other was hanged later after severe tortures. About 5,000 Sikhs were killed in four days. The mobs were organized by the government officials. Every Hindu was given 500 rupees and one liquor bottle to kill Sikhs. Mobs were given addresses of Sikhs’ houses and shops so that their property could be destroyed. No Hindu house was attacked, only Sikhs’ houses were burned and Sikhs were killed and burned alive. Most young Sikh males were killed and many young Sikh females were dishonored.
After Operation Blue Star and the Sikh massacre in Delhi, Sikh rebellions took over Golden Temple in order to restore the respect and honor it was entitled to, but the Indian government didn’t like this. They wanted the Golden Temple under their control. So another attack was launched on the Golden Temple in 1987, called “Operation Black Thunder”. This time only Sikh rebellions were the main target. Thousands were killed and dead bodies lay inside the Holy place for many days. My father was a Ragi in the Golden Temple during that time. He tells of the brutality of the Indian government who refused to remove the bodies saying that, those dead bodies were Sikhs’ and it was Sikhs’ responsibility to remove them. According to my father, all employees of SGPC volunteered to remove the bodies. My father said the bodies lay there for days in the hot sun because it was summer time. The bodies were so rotten that when my father tried to pull one body by its arm, the skin came off in his hand. People could not even enter the Temple because of the smell. Many trucks were loaded with dead bodies and all were burned with kerosene oil.After the second attack, Sikhs organized themselves into a military power in order to fight the Indian government. These brave Sikhs avenged the massacre in Delhi and killed many traitors. Many Sikhs have left India to escape religious persecution. Sikhs have spread out all over the world to enjoy the freedom and have better lives. The Indian government has killed over 1 million to 1.2 million Sikhs since 1947 (figures according to “THE SIKHS IN HISTORY” by Dr. Sangat Singh). Indian government has also killed 50,000 Christians and 100,000 Muslims. In November 1984 following the assassination of Indira Gandhi, mobs lead by Congress leaders committed murder, loot, arson and rape, across India for over a week, however the worst effected area was the capital of India Delhi.
Due to the large span of area the actual number of those dead is unknown, official figures of those who died are over 4000 and 60,000 were rendered homeless in Delhi alone, these figures to not incorporate those “missing”.
“India is ablaze with hate and anger. In city after city from one corner of the country to the other enraged mobs have gone and are going about systematically burning and looting Sikh properties and assaulting Sikhs without discrimination.” 1The Times of India
“Sikhs were sought out and burned to death. Children were killed, shops looted, cars burnt, markets destroyed, houses gutted. Trains were stopped and Sikhs were picked out and murdered.” Akbar M.J.
“Around 300 Sikh officers and men in uniform were done to death in the presence of non-Sikh soldiers, who stood as silent spectators.”
Police officers “stood by and watched arson, rape, looting and murder, without making any attempt to intervene to protect citizens brlonging to the Sikh minority, without attempting to dissuade the attackers to call for reinforcements or other support, or even to inform the fire brigade.”
“Many people complained that, in some cases, the police were not merely hanging back, but giving active support.”
“We started from the foot paths after the 1947 Partition, now we get back to it in our old age” wept an old couple, they had been deprived of all their belongings and also a young son.
Listen Indian Sikh, clearly your not able or willing to consider things from our perspective, and neither are we from your logic or whatever. I think there is no point in continuing to argue, this isn’t a discussion anymore. So perhaps ceasing any further talk regarding 1984 between you and the rest is the best option. I am not judging your thoughts/beliefs, I am just saying we’re not getting anywhere and this has went far enough, so it stops here for me…
Khalsa Sikh, brother there isn’t no point in trying to argue with Indian Sikh. She won’t be able to see things from our views or we from her’s. Khalsa Sikh Bro, don’t worry, just remember THIS IS NOTHING NEW. The cycle has always came on us, first the Moghuls, then the Afghans; after the demise of this enemy, more will arise, but in the end, Dasam Father will lead us to victory. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh: “We will not cause any hurdle to a just rule, but if an evil regime tries to destroy our religion and its practices, with the support of Satguru, Akaal Purakh, we will shake its very roots.” No one truly wanted Khalistan, just equality, but, there won’t be anymore bargaining.
Vah Vah Khalsa Sikh and Toronto Fatty. Shavash! You make the Sikh Panth proud. Each and every Sikh that died by the hands of the indian gov't watered the flower of Khalsa Raj. Khalsa Raj will be blossom in such a way that its fragrence will cover the indian sub-continent. Who knows, it may not start in the land of its birth just as Buddhism spread outside of its land of birth. One thing is for sure it will come and liberate the masses of the indian sub-continent. Unfortunate for our fallen Sikh brethren (not our Shaheeds…they have risen) I mean those of us who have lost their way and have no faith. With no idenity or name they are bastards…not the swear word but the definition. Sikhs have the same mother and father through all eternity. They also have a name. The hapless indians were named by the foreigners and before that by the previous invaders (hindu/sindhu means theif/derogatory) this is not meant to be an insult to our hindu brothers and sisters this is a historical fact and also not given to them by Sikhs. Remembering 84 is so important. Lest we forget…the indian's plan to wipe us out is well thought out and long term in its approach. They used it on the Buddhists and Jains before us. The reality is we are not a minority of 25-30 million we are hundreds of millions across the contient we only have to embrace our downtrodden vanjara, lobana and sikhligar brothers and sisters. Sikhs, Muslims, Tamils, Tribals and Dalits–the first people of the continent will one day liberate themselves from the brahmins whose biggest lie has been to make us believe we are the minority! Punjabi Sikhs may not be in the humanity's future because we are killing ourselves as fast as our enemies are through their blue prints but Khalsa will rise from the very homes of our enemies and from every walk of life. Long Live Khalistan. May the liberation of India and its masses come soon.
** Moorakhay Nal Na Lujeeay **
Vah Vah Khalsa Sikh and Toronto Fatty. Shavash! You make the Sikh Panth proud. Each and every Sikh that died by the hands of the indian gov’t watered the flower of Khalsa Raj. Khalsa Raj will be blossom in such a way that its fragrence will cover the indian sub-continent. Who knows, it may not start in the land of its birth just as Buddhism spread outside of its land of birth. One thing is for sure it will come and liberate the masses of the indian sub-continent. Unfortunate for our fallen Sikh brethren (not our Shaheeds…they have risen) I mean those of us who have lost their way and have no faith. With no idenity or name they are bastards…not the swear word but the definition. Sikhs have the same mother and father through all eternity. They also have a name. The hapless indians were named by the foreigners and before that by the previous invaders (hindu/sindhu means theif/derogatory) this is not meant to be an insult to our hindu brothers and sisters this is a historical fact and also not given to them by Sikhs. Remembering 84 is so important. Lest we forget…the indian’s plan to wipe us out is well thought out and long term in its approach. They used it on the Buddhists and Jains before us. The reality is we are not a minority of 25-30 million we are hundreds of millions across the contient we only have to embrace our downtrodden vanjara, lobana and sikhligar brothers and sisters. Sikhs, Muslims, Tamils, Tribals and Dalits–the first people of the continent will one day liberate themselves from the brahmins whose biggest lie has been to make us believe we are the minority! Punjabi Sikhs may not be in the humanity’s future because we are killing ourselves as fast as our enemies are through their blue prints but Khalsa will rise from the very homes of our enemies and from every walk of life. Long Live Khalistan. May the liberation of India and its masses come soon.
** Moorakhay Nal Na Lujeeay **
THanks for your elaborate comment, Khalsa Sikh, and illuminating me with the information that Brahmins were always against Sikhism. I really wonder why Guru Teg Bahadur ji then laid down his life for Kashmiri Brahmins … and I wonder why Guru Gobind Singh ji (as a child) also suggested the same to his father. I wonder why Sikhs (Dasam Guru and his family and his followers) died fighting Mughals whilst protecting innocents – both hindus and sikhs – from forceful conversions into ISlam that Aurangzeb was conducting.
There has always been opposition to the prophets of every religion. Jesus was crucified, Guru Arjan was made to sit on a hot plate, Guru Teg Bahadur sacrificed himself and Guru gobind Singh ji sacrificed his entire khandaan. People also threw rocks at Guru Nanak. There was always opposition. Not just to sikhism but to every religion that there has been. People in general don't like change. Now people are throwing rocks at the present day gurus too. Who knows that their followers 6000 years from now will have a full fledged religion like ours too and then they'd be talking about how in 2000s, a bunch of XYZ ppl attacked their prophet. That's just how world works, mate. History is evidence for that.
Also, "To me she seems like one of those people who will comment on everything relating to the Sikh religion but, she doesn’t even have enough guts to take Amrit and become a true daughter of the Sikh Panth."
Excuse me? Do I have to be Amritdhari to consider myself a Sikh and talk about Sikhism? Living my life according to Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings is not enough? Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn't amritdhari. Guru Gobid singh ji introduced it for the soldiers in his army and for very logical reasons too that I won't bother getting into. I live my life according to Guru Nanak Dev ji's three principles: naam japo, kirat karo, and vand chako … plus i follow dasvandh … beyond that, i dont need to prove my sikhi to anyone. There's many sants walking around with long flowing beards and raping women in the backdrops. I am better off being a true sikh in my actions rather than only outward dikhava.
@ toronto fatty: I'll agree with you on that we shall agree to disagree. Cheers.
blah, a paragraph went missing in the last comment. I'll retype it.
What I am trying to say is and I have said before is that our Gurus spent their lives preaching love and tolerance and only to fight against Zulm on others … and here we are, preaching hatred towards others … judging with association …. calling any non-amritdhari not a true sikh …. fighting amongst each other about who sits on the floor or table in gurdwaras …. the town I am in has 8 gurdwaras for a population of just a few thousand with the 'amritdhari' gurdwara leaders fighting for power. what a shame.
Brahmins might have wronged Nanak but Nanak didn't pick up arms … he smiled at those throwing rocks at him … he preached message of love and god and prayed that the perpetrators know the right path to God … which is of love and tolerance. Guru Hargobind singh ji and the later Gurus only took action when the INNOCENT were suffering regardless of religion, caste, creed or color. They didnt' fight for their own sake. Also they didn't fight because they were anti-Islam or had any ill feelings towards Islam. They only fought 'zulm'. The end!
Tying that to present day scenario, yes, zulm happened. Sure fight it out with the culprits … but don't taint an entire race with association. Everyone keeps saying on this site that with ppl like me, who needs BJP … and yet no one answers me as to why ppl in Punjab are voting for Akali Dal who forms an alliance with BJP if y'all are so anti-bjp et al? Why is Punjab voting for congress too? Everyone is evading those questions!
I am not for Congress or BJP or Akali Dal …. I think they are all crooked, corrupt and have no hope in Indian political system at all. There are only a chosen few political leaders who are honest and those leaders never get ahead in the political game. Crime wins in India. It pays big. System is corrupt. I keep repeating that. A song came out recently from the movie Rann … Jana Gana Rann …. if you get a chance, listen to that. That's the real India. A democracy running in the hands of a majority of goons who will use any card – be it religion or caste – to divide people (especially fanatics) and secure themselves vote banks.
sad that ppl keep falling into their tricks and genuinely start thinking that it's a crusade against religion. ha! and the crooked politicans keep winning while the common man continues to suffer.
sad indeed.
THanks for your elaborate comment, Khalsa Sikh, and illuminating me with the information that Brahmins were always against Sikhism. I really wonder why Guru Teg Bahadur ji then laid down his life for Kashmiri Brahmins … and I wonder why Guru Gobind Singh ji (as a child) also suggested the same to his father. I wonder why Sikhs (Dasam Guru and his family and his followers) died fighting Mughals whilst protecting innocents – both hindus and sikhs – from forceful conversions into ISlam that Aurangzeb was conducting.
There has always been opposition to the prophets of every religion. Jesus was crucified, Guru Arjan was made to sit on a hot plate, Guru Teg Bahadur sacrificed himself and Guru gobind Singh ji sacrificed his entire khandaan. People also threw rocks at Guru Nanak. There was always opposition. Not just to sikhism but to every religion that there has been. People in general don’t like change. Now people are throwing rocks at the present day gurus too. Who knows that their followers 6000 years from now will have a full fledged religion like ours too and then they’d be talking about how in 2000s, a bunch of XYZ ppl attacked their prophet. That’s just how world works, mate. History is evidence for that.
Also, “To me she seems like one of those people who will comment on everything relating to the Sikh religion but, she doesn’t even have enough guts to take Amrit and become a true daughter of the Sikh Panth.”
Excuse me? Do I have to be Amritdhari to consider myself a Sikh and talk about Sikhism? Living my life according to Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s teachings is not enough? Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn’t amritdhari. Guru Gobid singh ji introduced it for the soldiers in his army and for very logical reasons too that I won’t bother getting into. I live my life according to Guru Nanak Dev ji’s three principles: naam japo, kirat karo, and vand chako … plus i follow dasvandh … beyond that, i dont need to prove my sikhi to anyone. There’s many sants walking around with long flowing beards and raping women in the backdrops. I am better off being a true sikh in my actions rather than only outward dikhava.
@ toronto fatty: I’ll agree with you on that we shall agree to disagree. Cheers.
blah, a paragraph went missing in the last comment. I’ll retype it.
What I am trying to say is and I have said before is that our Gurus spent their lives preaching love and tolerance and only to fight against Zulm on others … and here we are, preaching hatred towards others … judging with association …. calling any non-amritdhari not a true sikh …. fighting amongst each other about who sits on the floor or table in gurdwaras …. the town I am in has 8 gurdwaras for a population of just a few thousand with the ‘amritdhari’ gurdwara leaders fighting for power. what a shame.
Brahmins might have wronged Nanak but Nanak didn’t pick up arms … he smiled at those throwing rocks at him … he preached message of love and god and prayed that the perpetrators know the right path to God … which is of love and tolerance. Guru Hargobind singh ji and the later Gurus only took action when the INNOCENT were suffering regardless of religion, caste, creed or color. They didnt’ fight for their own sake. Also they didn’t fight because they were anti-Islam or had any ill feelings towards Islam. They only fought ‘zulm’. The end!
Tying that to present day scenario, yes, zulm happened. Sure fight it out with the culprits … but don’t taint an entire race with association. Everyone keeps saying on this site that with ppl like me, who needs BJP … and yet no one answers me as to why ppl in Punjab are voting for Akali Dal who forms an alliance with BJP if y’all are so anti-bjp et al? Why is Punjab voting for congress too? Everyone is evading those questions!
I am not for Congress or BJP or Akali Dal …. I think they are all crooked, corrupt and have no hope in Indian political system at all. There are only a chosen few political leaders who are honest and those leaders never get ahead in the political game. Crime wins in India. It pays big. System is corrupt. I keep repeating that. A song came out recently from the movie Rann … Jana Gana Rann …. if you get a chance, listen to that. That’s the real India. A democracy running in the hands of a majority of goons who will use any card – be it religion or caste – to divide people (especially fanatics) and secure themselves vote banks.
sad that ppl keep falling into their tricks and genuinely start thinking that it’s a crusade against religion. ha! and the crooked politicans keep winning while the common man continues to suffer.
sad indeed.
KOHAT: The Taliban on Wednesday night demolished 11 houses of the Sikh community in the Orakzai Agency for refusing to pay ‘Jazia’.
The action was ordered by the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan chief for Orakzai Agency, Hakeemullah Mehsud, after the deadline given to the Sikh community for payment of Jazia passed on Wednesday.
Earlier, the Sikh community had postponed its decision about vacating the area following the demand of the Tehrik-i-Taliban for payment of ‘Jazia’ being non-Muslims for their protection.
They gathered in the Merozai area to finalise their decision for leaving the area, but a dispute erupted over the issue among them and the meeting was postponed till Thursday.
The Taliban had asked the Sikh community living in the tribal area for centuries earlier this month to pay annual Jazia because ‘Sharia had been enforced in the area and every non-Muslim had to pay protection money’.
The Sikh community comprising 30 to 35 families shifted from the Feroze Khel area to the nearby Merozai in Lower Orakzai Agency because they could not arrange Rs150 million demanded by the Taliban.
The Taliban had forcibly occupied shops of two Sikh businessmen, Sewa Singh and Kalak Singh, and houses of several Sikhs to force them to pay Jazia. Later, the Sikh community refused to pay Jazia and decided to leave Orakzai and settle in some other area.
Most of tribal families belonging to a particular sect have also migrated to different parts of Hangu and Kohat due to the fear of Taliban.
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA SRI WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
The news above is from a pakistani newspaper THE DAWN so blaming indian media of overreacting and that also from our sikh brothers over sikh prosecution at the hands of taliban is just shameful………….all i wanna say is just one thing at least Indian media is highlighting the issue no matter what there interest is what are you khalistani brigade doing other then protecting the intrest of pakistan and what is all the so called khalistani brigade (who are 99% living abroad because they do not have the guts to go to punjab and fight the war there)…..oh mereo veero punjab has alraedy suffered enough for 25 years for god sake please do not fuel this hatred anymore…i was born and bred in punjab and i was 10 year old in 1984 a year not a single sikh can ever forget and even today the sikhs in indian i mean even the new generation has not forgotten it but by fueling hatred against india we are just becoming a laughing stock for the pakistanis who are funding most of the anti indian propaganda around the world….why can we not stick together as one community and fight the injustice by practicin the teachings of our ten gurus dasmesh pitah sri guru gobind singh ji said words in persin"chu kar az hama haltey dar gujazast…hallal ast burdan ba shamsheer dast@ meaning the opressing is a crime but allowing someone to oppress is a crime as well.are we sikhs really getting oppressed today in india even though the top 2 most powerful positions in india at the moment are held by two keshdari sikhs(manmohan singh and montek singh ahluwalia)
why in todays world a minority of sikhs think that the only true sikhs are khalistani sikhs i don't at all belive in khalistan ideology does that make me a non sikh.some of you have never been to punjab but still know everything what happened there 20yers ago….for god sake i was there studiyng in school during those dark years and i still don't forget the fear on my mom's face when i use to get late from my tution in the evening…..i mean if you guys are so serious why are you sitting in canada america and uk why don't you go there and fight rather then funding a fight from there and getting someone else's son killed.you guys are nothing short of sikh taliban and its about time the sikhs of pujab wake up rise against you because you people give a bad name to the entire sikh community abroad and specially in INDIA
I have through my teenage years lived through the dark years of punjab and i know what people of Punjab went through that time all because of overinflated egos of two people…indira gandhi and Sant Bhindrawale…..i hope and pray that my Punjab never face those dark days again and we learn from the past and move to the future as Darwin says the survival of the fittest and who move along with time.look at the inca dynasty in south America the litterly dissapeared because they were stuck in the past…….if im allowed to give just one example,Sikh empire was one of the most influential and powerful under Maharaj Ranjeet Singh but the British came and destroyed the Sikh empire and killed thousand of Sikhs in process to gain supremacy over Sikh empire and Sikh nation……had we lived in the past we would have never forgotten or forgiven them but today we live in Britain Canada and America(whose ethnicity is mostly British and Irish) and work in these countries and earn our living here who can forget namdhri sikh massacre,the jalianwala bagh massacre and so many other atrocities the British committed against Sikhs…..do you think we have forgotten that or forgiven them….no…but we have moved on….what i am trying to say is the people in Punjab are very happy at the moment regardless of all the corrupt politicians or corrupt system for god sake let them live in peace and don't incite them to wage a war against there country because if those dark days of 90's returned to Punjab then so many mothers again will lose there sons and many more sisters are going to lose there brothers and so many wives are gonna lose there husbands and thousands of more kids are gonna become orphans while all of you anti Indian khalistan brigade will be busy earning you dollars and pounds…….never forget 84 never ever but lets make the future of Punjab brighter and make it the no1 state in India.I did a small survey in punjab recently when i went there about khalistani movement and trust me not a single Sikh is ready to support the khalistani movement now in Punjab.please for god sake sit down and think what i am saying.
rab tuhada sab da bhala kare
jeet singh
KOHAT: The Taliban on Wednesday night demolished 11 houses of the Sikh community in the Orakzai Agency for refusing to pay ‘Jazia’.
The action was ordered by the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan chief for Orakzai Agency, Hakeemullah Mehsud, after the deadline given to the Sikh community for payment of Jazia passed on Wednesday.
Earlier, the Sikh community had postponed its decision about vacating the area following the demand of the Tehrik-i-Taliban for payment of ‘Jazia’ being non-Muslims for their protection.
They gathered in the Merozai area to finalise their decision for leaving the area, but a dispute erupted over the issue among them and the meeting was postponed till Thursday.
The Taliban had asked the Sikh community living in the tribal area for centuries earlier this month to pay annual Jazia because ‘Sharia had been enforced in the area and every non-Muslim had to pay protection money’.
The Sikh community comprising 30 to 35 families shifted from the Feroze Khel area to the nearby Merozai in Lower Orakzai Agency because they could not arrange Rs150 million demanded by the Taliban.
The Taliban had forcibly occupied shops of two Sikh businessmen, Sewa Singh and Kalak Singh, and houses of several Sikhs to force them to pay Jazia. Later, the Sikh community refused to pay Jazia and decided to leave Orakzai and settle in some other area.
Most of tribal families belonging to a particular sect have also migrated to different parts of Hangu and Kohat due to the fear of Taliban.
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA SRI WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
The news above is from a pakistani newspaper THE DAWN so blaming indian media of overreacting and that also from our sikh brothers over sikh prosecution at the hands of taliban is just shameful………….all i wanna say is just one thing at least Indian media is highlighting the issue no matter what there interest is what are you khalistani brigade doing other then protecting the intrest of pakistan and what is all the so called khalistani brigade (who are 99% living abroad because they do not have the guts to go to punjab and fight the war there)…..oh mereo veero punjab has alraedy suffered enough for 25 years for god sake please do not fuel this hatred anymore…i was born and bred in punjab and i was 10 year old in 1984 a year not a single sikh can ever forget and even today the sikhs in indian i mean even the new generation has not forgotten it but by fueling hatred against india we are just becoming a laughing stock for the pakistanis who are funding most of the anti indian propaganda around the world….why can we not stick together as one community and fight the injustice by practicin the teachings of our ten gurus dasmesh pitah sri guru gobind singh ji said words in persin”chu kar az hama haltey dar gujazast…hallal ast burdan ba shamsheer dast@ meaning the opressing is a crime but allowing someone to oppress is a crime as well.are we sikhs really getting oppressed today in india even though the top 2 most powerful positions in india at the moment are held by two keshdari sikhs(manmohan singh and montek singh ahluwalia)
why in todays world a minority of sikhs think that the only true sikhs are khalistani sikhs i don’t at all belive in khalistan ideology does that make me a non sikh.some of you have never been to punjab but still know everything what happened there 20yers ago….for god sake i was there studiyng in school during those dark years and i still don’t forget the fear on my mom’s face when i use to get late from my tution in the evening…..i mean if you guys are so serious why are you sitting in canada america and uk why don’t you go there and fight rather then funding a fight from there and getting someone else’s son killed.you guys are nothing short of sikh taliban and its about time the sikhs of pujab wake up rise against you because you people give a bad name to the entire sikh community abroad and specially in INDIA
I have through my teenage years lived through the dark years of punjab and i know what people of Punjab went through that time all because of overinflated egos of two people…indira gandhi and Sant Bhindrawale…..i hope and pray that my Punjab never face those dark days again and we learn from the past and move to the future as Darwin says the survival of the fittest and who move along with time.look at the inca dynasty in south America the litterly dissapeared because they were stuck in the past…….if im allowed to give just one example,Sikh empire was one of the most influential and powerful under Maharaj Ranjeet Singh but the British came and destroyed the Sikh empire and killed thousand of Sikhs in process to gain supremacy over Sikh empire and Sikh nation……had we lived in the past we would have never forgotten or forgiven them but today we live in Britain Canada and America(whose ethnicity is mostly British and Irish) and work in these countries and earn our living here who can forget namdhri sikh massacre,the jalianwala bagh massacre and so many other atrocities the British committed against Sikhs…..do you think we have forgotten that or forgiven them….no…but we have moved on….what i am trying to say is the people in Punjab are very happy at the moment regardless of all the corrupt politicians or corrupt system for god sake let them live in peace and don’t incite them to wage a war against there country because if those dark days of 90’s returned to Punjab then so many mothers again will lose there sons and many more sisters are going to lose there brothers and so many wives are gonna lose there husbands and thousands of more kids are gonna become orphans while all of you anti Indian khalistan brigade will be busy earning you dollars and pounds…….never forget 84 never ever but lets make the future of Punjab brighter and make it the no1 state in India.I did a small survey in punjab recently when i went there about khalistani movement and trust me not a single Sikh is ready to support the khalistani movement now in Punjab.please for god sake sit down and think what i am saying.
rab tuhada sab da bhala kare
jeet singh
An Indian Sikh said: "Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn’t amritdhari. Guru Gobid singh ji introduced it for the soldiers in his army and for very logical reasons too that I won’t bother getting into."
Ok Hew McLeod!
An Indian Sikh said: “Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn’t amritdhari. Guru Gobid singh ji introduced it for the soldiers in his army and for very logical reasons too that I won’t bother getting into.”
Ok Hew McLeod!
khalsa Sikh i would like to tell you one of the most important rule of writing….always write things with conviction and make sure you can prove what you are writing because lies don't have legs to stand on and here i am with an indian Sikh to rip apart the lies and anti-indian propaganda and hatred you are spreading.we at the moment me and an indian Sikh are small army of indian Sikhs who are ready to counter attack all the lies you so called khalistani brigade are spreading against India.waheguru da naam le ke te jakara shad k i jeet singh khalsa is here to rip apart your lies.bravo khalsa Sikh i have seen people lying and provoking but you beat them all…bravo you should be awarded a gold medal in lying.
JO BOLE SO NIHAL….SAT SRI AKAL
Lies no 1
Gandhi said “You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh.” But as soon as the British left India Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Sikhs were declared as traitors of India.
To begin with i am not a big fan of Mahatma Gandhi for some reasons which i can certainly discuss at other time …but anyway we also cannot deny his contribution (whatever it was)in the struggle for freedom.could you please tell me where did you picked up the above words so you can justify your lie no.1
If my Sikh brother and sisters are not aware then i would like to tell you that Sikhs were given some very prominent jobs in the first independent indian cabinet.please find below the copy of first indian cabinet.
Nehru (Prime Minister • External Affairs) · Patel (Deputy Prime Minister • Home Affairs) · Baldev Singh (Defence) · Chetty (Finance) · Maulana Azad (Education) · Jagjivan Ram (Labour) · B.R. Ambedkar (Law) · R.A. Kidwai (Communications) · S.P. Mookerjee (Industry) · Amrit Kaur (Health) · Mathai (Railways)
The third most important portfolio in the cabinet was given to Sardar Baldev Singh who was a keshdhari Sikh and health portfolio was held by Amrit Kaur who was a Sikh as well.even though at that time the Sikh population in India was merely 1.6% of total indian population still the Sikhs were given prominent portfolios the cabinet.
Sikhs were respected all over India & as soon as people use to see a sikh with turban they use to associate him with a brave soldier and use to say SARDAR JI.
But today because of the deeds of a tiny minority of Sikh like (KHALSA SIKH AND KAUR i don't even wanna call you with the name you have chosen because they are very sacred name and venomous people like you does not deserve to be called khalsa but i have got no choice and i have to use your name)Sikhs image in India is tarnished but thank to some prominent Sikh personalities Sikhs are still well respected all over India.how well respected are we in UK Canada and USA how are we discriminated against at there airports…..a common white person walking on the road call us bloody Paki and we can't do anything about….so please don't tell me as if we don't get discriminated outside India.We have to live in these countries because we earn our living here.
LIE NO 2
On top of this when the Indian constitution was written Sikhs refused to sign it in the parliament house because Sikhs were declared “Hindus with long hair.” Gandhi told Sikhs that if they cut their hair and give up their faith and joined the Hindus, they would be given the full right and hired at the jobs (the very same liberties which were denied them) but Sikhs refused to do so.
Could you please verify the source of above information then i will take you to the task.
LIE NO 3(BIGGEST LIE)
The Indian government broke all of their promises and forgot all about the liberties the Sikhs had essentially won for India. When Nehru was asked about creating a separate Punjabi state, he brushed it off by saying “Circumstances have changed now.” When China attacked India, it was the Sikhs who saved Nehru’s life but he still thought of Sikhs as his enemies and mistreated them. Sikhs fought bravely against Pakistan in the wars of 1965 and 1971, yet the Indian government paid no attention to Sikhs’ loyalty. When Pakistan army agreed to surrender, Hindu officers were sent to sign the negotiation instead of Sikhs. At this the Muslims of Pakistan refused to surrender saying that “brave people (Muslims) surrender only to brave people (Sikhs).” So Pakistan surrendered to the Sikhs, but Indian television did not show this on the television. They showed only hands. Sikhs were not shown on TV. Despite their heroism and valor Sikhs were not even dignified with credit for their labors.
MY ANSWER
Sikh along with Gurkha are one of the best regiments in the world but the highest no of soldiers killed in 62 war were of raj put regiment so get your fact together first khalsa Sikh.of course Sikh and Gurkha regiment suffered casualties but when you are in war the enemy does not recognize you by your faith but by your country.
and in the 71 war with Pakistan the head of army that time was an Indian Parsi Sam Manekshaw but the general of command at east pakistan(now bangladesh)was general LT.General Sardar Jagjit Singh Arora a keshdhari Sikh so obviously general NIAZI OF PAKISTAN ARMY was going to lay arms in front of a general of opposite forces you fool and general niazi of pakistan was not going to surrender to a army rifleman….oh plese mere veer nu kuc army de rule samjhaoo.yaar tu ais khalsey naal panga na le khalsa sikh.
please find below the surrender details.the picture of general niazi surrendring in front of Lt. general arora were splashed on each and every newspaper in india.anyone can go and check the details on the following site: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
Main article: Instrument of Surrender (1971)
The Instrument of Surrender was signed at Ramna Race Course in Dhaka at 16.31 IST on December 16, 1971, by Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in-chief of Eastern Command of the Indian Army and Lieutenant General A. A. K. Niazi, Commander of Pakistani forces in Bangladesh.
Recipients of the Param Vir Chakra for 1971 war:
* Lance Naik Albert Ekka (Posthumously)
* Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon (Posthumously)
* Major Hoshiar Singh
* Second Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal (Posthumously)
Two sikh officers(one posthumously)received the highest bravery award given to soldiers in India
LIE NO 3
Just look at the Olympic games of 1983 where no person with the last name “Singh” was allowed to enter in Delhi
answer:my father use to work in OMAN and use to visit us in india twice a year and not once but 4 times between 83-84 my dad took flight from delhi so where is the question of singhs not allowed to enter delhi.jhooth bolan di bhi ek had hundi hai khalsa sikh
khalsa sikh people like you and me are two ends of a river which are never going to meet but atleast don't lie that much just to prove your point.as of today 99% of sikhs in punjab are happy and prospering regardless of hardships they face which all citizens of india face.and i along with an indian sikh us sachepatshah waheguru da naam le ke aaj ek navi revolution shuru karan da ailaan karda that i will bring the sikh youth of punjab to this forum and let them know what people like you are doing on there name and religion.
just before i go please tell me what was the name of your dad who was a ragi in golden temple my uncle work in sgpc SARDAR AVTAR SINGH so i will confirm about your dad as well because to me that seems like a lie as well.
sikhs have been shorchanged time and again but they have always proved themselves and earned there respect but i don't know why people like you are there to shame the entire sikh kaum.sant bhindrawale use to be a good friend of indira gandhi but then why did there ego's clashed because indira wanted to control sant bhindrawale and sant bhindrawale wanted to control indira gandhi.there ego's clashed and ended up killing thousand of innocent sikhs and punjab paid the price for 25 years for overinflated ego's of sant bhindrawale and indira gandhi.today you go to punjab and talk to people teher and you will realise that people of punjab blame both sant bhindrawale and indira gandhi for operation blue star and the dark days of punjab i saw as a teenager growing up in Punjab.I was 10 year old in 1984.assi sab kuch apne akhii dekheya hai so please don't tell us what was wrong and what was not.indian people and media were totally against operation blue star.Operation Bluestar was ranked as number two in the Top 10 Political Disgraces by Indian government by India Today magazine.[8]
i will like many millions of sikhs will never forget 1984 but lets learn from the past,do things according to gurbani and never critisize or single out a community or religion.
if we really look into the past then no other religion did more atrocities with Sikh religion then Muslims but does that mean we should start singling out Muslim community now……
jo mere bhehna te bharawan naal delhi riots wich hoyea is the worst atrocities.Rab meri kaum nu oh din dobara kadey na dikhawey.
but i wanna ask one thing do you think killing the prime minister of india by her two own trusted sikh bodyguards.no matter what she had done but what we today describe as a proud moment to the world was in my opinion a dark day for the sikh community after the distruction of sri akal takhat.because today even white people laugh at us by saying oh my god you sikhs are so brave it took two bodyguards with automatic weapons to kill a 65 year old woman.Aurat da katal karna sikh panth wich sab to wadi buzdili hai.Even though its been almost proven now that Beant Singh tried to save Indira Gandhi by returning satwant's fire which injured satwant because indo tibetian border police jawans came a bit later so oviously satwant and beant fired at each other as well.Indira use to treat beant like a son.He was her bodyguard for many many years,satwant was a new recruit,if Indira hated Sikhs so much why would she make Giani Zail Singh a Sikh as president of India at that time and it beggars belief that why would she keep two Sikhs as her only bodyguards……Indira acted on the false intelligence of the then a chief of army general sundarji who along with general Vaidya were the main culprits,but then history is history we will never stop arguing about history. even after this incident Sikh bodyguards are one of the essential part of SPG (special protection guard) the security elite that protects VIP'S in India
YOU GUYS WILL NEVER CHANGE YOUR THINKING AND I WILL NEVER CHANGE MINE BUT TELL PUBLIC THE TRUTH….LIES DON'T LAST FOREVER.
DEH SIWA BAR MOH E HAI SUB KARMAN TE KABHU NA TARO
JEET SINGH KHALSA
khalsa Sikh i would like to tell you one of the most important rule of writing….always write things with conviction and make sure you can prove what you are writing because lies don’t have legs to stand on and here i am with an indian Sikh to rip apart the lies and anti-indian propaganda and hatred you are spreading.we at the moment me and an indian Sikh are small army of indian Sikhs who are ready to counter attack all the lies you so called khalistani brigade are spreading against India.waheguru da naam le ke te jakara shad k i jeet singh khalsa is here to rip apart your lies.bravo khalsa Sikh i have seen people lying and provoking but you beat them all…bravo you should be awarded a gold medal in lying.
JO BOLE SO NIHAL….SAT SRI AKAL
Lies no 1
Gandhi said “You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh.” But as soon as the British left India Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Sikhs were declared as traitors of India.
To begin with i am not a big fan of Mahatma Gandhi for some reasons which i can certainly discuss at other time …but anyway we also cannot deny his contribution (whatever it was)in the struggle for freedom.could you please tell me where did you picked up the above words so you can justify your lie no.1
If my Sikh brother and sisters are not aware then i would like to tell you that Sikhs were given some very prominent jobs in the first independent indian cabinet.please find below the copy of first indian cabinet.
Nehru (Prime Minister • External Affairs) · Patel (Deputy Prime Minister • Home Affairs) · Baldev Singh (Defence) · Chetty (Finance) · Maulana Azad (Education) · Jagjivan Ram (Labour) · B.R. Ambedkar (Law) · R.A. Kidwai (Communications) · S.P. Mookerjee (Industry) · Amrit Kaur (Health) · Mathai (Railways)
The third most important portfolio in the cabinet was given to Sardar Baldev Singh who was a keshdhari Sikh and health portfolio was held by Amrit Kaur who was a Sikh as well.even though at that time the Sikh population in India was merely 1.6% of total indian population still the Sikhs were given prominent portfolios the cabinet.
Sikhs were respected all over India & as soon as people use to see a sikh with turban they use to associate him with a brave soldier and use to say SARDAR JI.
But today because of the deeds of a tiny minority of Sikh like (KHALSA SIKH AND KAUR i don’t even wanna call you with the name you have chosen because they are very sacred name and venomous people like you does not deserve to be called khalsa but i have got no choice and i have to use your name)Sikhs image in India is tarnished but thank to some prominent Sikh personalities Sikhs are still well respected all over India.how well respected are we in UK Canada and USA how are we discriminated against at there airports…..a common white person walking on the road call us bloody Paki and we can’t do anything about….so please don’t tell me as if we don’t get discriminated outside India.We have to live in these countries because we earn our living here.
LIE NO 2
On top of this when the Indian constitution was written Sikhs refused to sign it in the parliament house because Sikhs were declared “Hindus with long hair.” Gandhi told Sikhs that if they cut their hair and give up their faith and joined the Hindus, they would be given the full right and hired at the jobs (the very same liberties which were denied them) but Sikhs refused to do so.
Could you please verify the source of above information then i will take you to the task.
LIE NO 3(BIGGEST LIE)
The Indian government broke all of their promises and forgot all about the liberties the Sikhs had essentially won for India. When Nehru was asked about creating a separate Punjabi state, he brushed it off by saying “Circumstances have changed now.” When China attacked India, it was the Sikhs who saved Nehru’s life but he still thought of Sikhs as his enemies and mistreated them. Sikhs fought bravely against Pakistan in the wars of 1965 and 1971, yet the Indian government paid no attention to Sikhs’ loyalty. When Pakistan army agreed to surrender, Hindu officers were sent to sign the negotiation instead of Sikhs. At this the Muslims of Pakistan refused to surrender saying that “brave people (Muslims) surrender only to brave people (Sikhs).” So Pakistan surrendered to the Sikhs, but Indian television did not show this on the television. They showed only hands. Sikhs were not shown on TV. Despite their heroism and valor Sikhs were not even dignified with credit for their labors.
MY ANSWER
Sikh along with Gurkha are one of the best regiments in the world but the highest no of soldiers killed in 62 war were of raj put regiment so get your fact together first khalsa Sikh.of course Sikh and Gurkha regiment suffered casualties but when you are in war the enemy does not recognize you by your faith but by your country.
and in the 71 war with Pakistan the head of army that time was an Indian Parsi Sam Manekshaw but the general of command at east pakistan(now bangladesh)was general LT.General Sardar Jagjit Singh Arora a keshdhari Sikh so obviously general NIAZI OF PAKISTAN ARMY was going to lay arms in front of a general of opposite forces you fool and general niazi of pakistan was not going to surrender to a army rifleman….oh plese mere veer nu kuc army de rule samjhaoo.yaar tu ais khalsey naal panga na le khalsa sikh.
please find below the surrender details.the picture of general niazi surrendring in front of Lt. general arora were splashed on each and every newspaper in india.anyone can go and check the details on the following site: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
Main article: Instrument of Surrender (1971)
The Instrument of Surrender was signed at Ramna Race Course in Dhaka at 16.31 IST on December 16, 1971, by Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding-in-chief of Eastern Command of the Indian Army and Lieutenant General A. A. K. Niazi, Commander of Pakistani forces in Bangladesh.
Recipients of the Param Vir Chakra for 1971 war:
* Lance Naik Albert Ekka (Posthumously)
* Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon (Posthumously)
* Major Hoshiar Singh
* Second Lieutenant Arun Khetarpal (Posthumously)
Two sikh officers(one posthumously)received the highest bravery award given to soldiers in India
LIE NO 3
Just look at the Olympic games of 1983 where no person with the last name “Singh” was allowed to enter in Delhi
answer:my father use to work in OMAN and use to visit us in india twice a year and not once but 4 times between 83-84 my dad took flight from delhi so where is the question of singhs not allowed to enter delhi.jhooth bolan di bhi ek had hundi hai khalsa sikh
khalsa sikh people like you and me are two ends of a river which are never going to meet but atleast don’t lie that much just to prove your point.as of today 99% of sikhs in punjab are happy and prospering regardless of hardships they face which all citizens of india face.and i along with an indian sikh us sachepatshah waheguru da naam le ke aaj ek navi revolution shuru karan da ailaan karda that i will bring the sikh youth of punjab to this forum and let them know what people like you are doing on there name and religion.
just before i go please tell me what was the name of your dad who was a ragi in golden temple my uncle work in sgpc SARDAR AVTAR SINGH so i will confirm about your dad as well because to me that seems like a lie as well.
sikhs have been shorchanged time and again but they have always proved themselves and earned there respect but i don’t know why people like you are there to shame the entire sikh kaum.sant bhindrawale use to be a good friend of indira gandhi but then why did there ego’s clashed because indira wanted to control sant bhindrawale and sant bhindrawale wanted to control indira gandhi.there ego’s clashed and ended up killing thousand of innocent sikhs and punjab paid the price for 25 years for overinflated ego’s of sant bhindrawale and indira gandhi.today you go to punjab and talk to people teher and you will realise that people of punjab blame both sant bhindrawale and indira gandhi for operation blue star and the dark days of punjab i saw as a teenager growing up in Punjab.I was 10 year old in 1984.assi sab kuch apne akhii dekheya hai so please don’t tell us what was wrong and what was not.indian people and media were totally against operation blue star.Operation Bluestar was ranked as number two in the Top 10 Political Disgraces by Indian government by India Today magazine.[8]
i will like many millions of sikhs will never forget 1984 but lets learn from the past,do things according to gurbani and never critisize or single out a community or religion.
if we really look into the past then no other religion did more atrocities with Sikh religion then Muslims but does that mean we should start singling out Muslim community now……
jo mere bhehna te bharawan naal delhi riots wich hoyea is the worst atrocities.Rab meri kaum nu oh din dobara kadey na dikhawey.
but i wanna ask one thing do you think killing the prime minister of india by her two own trusted sikh bodyguards.no matter what she had done but what we today describe as a proud moment to the world was in my opinion a dark day for the sikh community after the distruction of sri akal takhat.because today even white people laugh at us by saying oh my god you sikhs are so brave it took two bodyguards with automatic weapons to kill a 65 year old woman.Aurat da katal karna sikh panth wich sab to wadi buzdili hai.Even though its been almost proven now that Beant Singh tried to save Indira Gandhi by returning satwant’s fire which injured satwant because indo tibetian border police jawans came a bit later so oviously satwant and beant fired at each other as well.Indira use to treat beant like a son.He was her bodyguard for many many years,satwant was a new recruit,if Indira hated Sikhs so much why would she make Giani Zail Singh a Sikh as president of India at that time and it beggars belief that why would she keep two Sikhs as her only bodyguards……Indira acted on the false intelligence of the then a chief of army general sundarji who along with general Vaidya were the main culprits,but then history is history we will never stop arguing about history. even after this incident Sikh bodyguards are one of the essential part of SPG (special protection guard) the security elite that protects VIP’S in India
YOU GUYS WILL NEVER CHANGE YOUR THINKING AND I WILL NEVER CHANGE MINE BUT TELL PUBLIC THE TRUTH….LIES DON’T LAST FOREVER.
DEH SIWA BAR MOH E HAI SUB KARMAN TE KABHU NA TARO
JEET SINGH KHALSA
That was absolutely brilliantly put, Jeet Singh Khalsa.
I won't be surprized, however, if your 'facts' are disregarded as illusions DESPITE all the evidence that you have presented. The writing in the comments of this post remind me of the radical crap that Pakistan's Zaid Hamid continues to deliver in Pakistan.
It really surprizes me that people here would be very proud of a Sikh soldier in an American army but if the same soldier were to serve in the Indian army, he would not be respected because India is the enemy? I really wonder why and how. India is our homeland. No matter what. We've fought for our lands for generation. Punjab was in the way of Moghul invasion, we faced the brunt of partition, we fought tooth and nail in 1971 wars, we suffered 1984, we lived through tortuous decades of terrorism and yet we survived! and Survived strong! We are a race of survivors. Heck, Indian prime minister is a Sikh! who is very well respected. I don't know a single person who doesn't acknowledge his single-handed achievement in shaping India into the economic power that it is today. Manmohan Singh is called the Father of Modern India by many people. I recently heard that from an Indian Muslim here in US and plenty 'Hindus' (who are hated here) say that too.
Also, I was speaking to one such 'Hindu' today who told me that he, as an Indian, is ashamed of 1984 and would readily let any sikh spit on his face because sikhs were wronged in 1984! It was a politicized riot (as all are) as a result of ego-clashes … and the guy who let his ego kill so many people is revered in these countries whilst no one in Punjab cares for him. Only those with political agendas or something to gain from evoking radicalism would revere him in Punjab. That's a reality that many here fail to see. People in Punjab are happy living as citizens of India. I know we were when I was living there. I wrote in some other post that I went to school with Hindus, celebrated festivals with them, they did with us too, religion was NEVER an issue! even during terrorism. We were more scared of radical Sikh terrorists than anything.
It's sad that people who moved out of India before 84 are so misguided and what's sadder is that they will continue to evoke negativity based on MISINFORMATION that has absolutely no proof and won't do anything constructive for Punjab and Punjabiat.
Punjab currently is lost to drugs. These people won't bother with that. They are more concerned about who tells more Hindus off. And even if they were to bother with Punjab's drug situation, they'll blame it on the Hindus in Punjab. haha can it get more delirious? I shake my head at ignorance and feel helpless as to what to do. These people are never moving back to India and living there to see that people of Punjab are VERY MUCH Indian at heart. We are as much Indian as we were in 1971!!! India is our country, our nation! In our national anthem, Punjab is listed first and Punjab shall continue to be counted in that list for as long as India is in existence.
Jai Hind!
Thanks for the sanity, Jeet Singh Khalsa ji. For a few days there, I was beginning to feel that it is a lost cause. The scenes of the days of terrorism flashed continuously before my eyes. The days when my 'turbaned' father would get late coming back from his office … how all our family would get agitated …. the days when all of our family would get together to decide whether the children of the family should be sent abroad despite the fact that our family was doing VERY well in Punjab. Sadly, all my uncles and families moved to Canada in 90s because they were prime targets of terrorism considering they were well off. Majority of those uncles were turbaned sikhs. My father, who is a turbaned sikh himself and now settled in Canada too, often narrates how he was respected wherever he went in India before terrorism just because of his turban. He was called 'sardar ji' and people offered respect to him.
And after terrorism (stupidity of a minority), his turban only induced fear in people. He would get on a bus in areas other than Punjab and people would get off the bus.
Yes, we lived in that era. We feared for being Sikhs. Hindus feared being Hindus. Our schools were forced to change dress code from skirts to Punjabi suits for girls with orange dupattas and black salvaars. THAT was suppression of freedom in its truest sense. It happened under Khalistani terrorist forces. God forbid if these pro-khalistani movement people are to be in charge of Punjab again, that would happen again and all freedom of choice will be suppressed. Men will be forced to wear turbans and women will be forced to dress in attire approved by these moral gurus. Those who don't follow their rules will be derided as not a true sikh and not a valid part of Khalistan and all their freedoms would be taken away and they'd be thrown in the darkest corners of jails. Oh How I fear that day cuz Punjab HAS BEEN very close to that insanity!!!! No civilization and culture can survive without tolerance.
That tolerance is very much a part of the present day Punjab. Please let it be. Posters of Durga are sitting next to those of Sikh Gurus in shops in Punjab. Please let them stay like that. Hindu employees work along with their Sikh counterparts without any friction. Please let it be. Please don't breed negativity sitting in the cozy comforts of your homes away from Punjab. Let the people there live in peace. Please. Please.
Dear Brother, Jeet Singh Khalsa
I LOOK AT THINGS FROM A NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW. MY HUMBLE REQUEST IS DON'T MALIGN A FELLOW KHALSA BROTHER/ OR SISTER UNLESS YOU DON'T SEE THINGS FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. ONE MORE THING JEET SINGH KHALSA THAT SIKHS DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE MARRIAGE ACT INDIA THEY HAVE REGISTER THERE MARRIAGE UNDER THE HINDU MARRIAGE ACT. IN BOLLYWOOD MOVIES AND INDIAN PLAYS SIKHS ARE OFTEN TARGETED AND RIDICULED. PRIME MINISTER MANMOHAN SINGH DESPITE HAVING THE GUISE OF A SIKH DID NOTHING TO ASSURE THAT THE 1984 ANTI SIKH MASSACRE VICTIMS GOT JUSTICE BY ENSURING THAT SAJJAN KUMAR AND JAGDISH TYTLER WERE PUNISHED FOR PROVOKING HATRED AGAINST ONE PARTICULAR COMMUNITY. THE BJP, RSS, VHP, SHIV SENA, ARYA SAMAJ AND THE CONGRESS PARTY ARE ALL ANTI SIKH PARTIES.
BHUL CHUK MAF KARNI VEERJI.
PS I AS A FELLOW SIKH BROTHER I WOULD DO ARDAS TO WAHEGURU TO UNITE TO ALL SIKHS UNDER ONE UMBRELLA. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND SO IS KHALSA SIKH FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW.
That was absolutely brilliantly put, Jeet Singh Khalsa.
I won’t be surprized, however, if your ‘facts’ are disregarded as illusions DESPITE all the evidence that you have presented. The writing in the comments of this post remind me of the radical crap that Pakistan’s Zaid Hamid continues to deliver in Pakistan.
It really surprizes me that people here would be very proud of a Sikh soldier in an American army but if the same soldier were to serve in the Indian army, he would not be respected because India is the enemy? I really wonder why and how. India is our homeland. No matter what. We’ve fought for our lands for generation. Punjab was in the way of Moghul invasion, we faced the brunt of partition, we fought tooth and nail in 1971 wars, we suffered 1984, we lived through tortuous decades of terrorism and yet we survived! and Survived strong! We are a race of survivors. Heck, Indian prime minister is a Sikh! who is very well respected. I don’t know a single person who doesn’t acknowledge his single-handed achievement in shaping India into the economic power that it is today. Manmohan Singh is called the Father of Modern India by many people. I recently heard that from an Indian Muslim here in US and plenty ‘Hindus’ (who are hated here) say that too.
Also, I was speaking to one such ‘Hindu’ today who told me that he, as an Indian, is ashamed of 1984 and would readily let any sikh spit on his face because sikhs were wronged in 1984! It was a politicized riot (as all are) as a result of ego-clashes … and the guy who let his ego kill so many people is revered in these countries whilst no one in Punjab cares for him. Only those with political agendas or something to gain from evoking radicalism would revere him in Punjab. That’s a reality that many here fail to see. People in Punjab are happy living as citizens of India. I know we were when I was living there. I wrote in some other post that I went to school with Hindus, celebrated festivals with them, they did with us too, religion was NEVER an issue! even during terrorism. We were more scared of radical Sikh terrorists than anything.
It’s sad that people who moved out of India before 84 are so misguided and what’s sadder is that they will continue to evoke negativity based on MISINFORMATION that has absolutely no proof and won’t do anything constructive for Punjab and Punjabiat.
Punjab currently is lost to drugs. These people won’t bother with that. They are more concerned about who tells more Hindus off. And even if they were to bother with Punjab’s drug situation, they’ll blame it on the Hindus in Punjab. haha can it get more delirious? I shake my head at ignorance and feel helpless as to what to do. These people are never moving back to India and living there to see that people of Punjab are VERY MUCH Indian at heart. We are as much Indian as we were in 1971!!! India is our country, our nation! In our national anthem, Punjab is listed first and Punjab shall continue to be counted in that list for as long as India is in existence.
Jai Hind!
Thanks for the sanity, Jeet Singh Khalsa ji. For a few days there, I was beginning to feel that it is a lost cause. The scenes of the days of terrorism flashed continuously before my eyes. The days when my ‘turbaned’ father would get late coming back from his office … how all our family would get agitated …. the days when all of our family would get together to decide whether the children of the family should be sent abroad despite the fact that our family was doing VERY well in Punjab. Sadly, all my uncles and families moved to Canada in 90s because they were prime targets of terrorism considering they were well off. Majority of those uncles were turbaned sikhs. My father, who is a turbaned sikh himself and now settled in Canada too, often narrates how he was respected wherever he went in India before terrorism just because of his turban. He was called ‘sardar ji’ and people offered respect to him.
And after terrorism (stupidity of a minority), his turban only induced fear in people. He would get on a bus in areas other than Punjab and people would get off the bus.
Yes, we lived in that era. We feared for being Sikhs. Hindus feared being Hindus. Our schools were forced to change dress code from skirts to Punjabi suits for girls with orange dupattas and black salvaars. THAT was suppression of freedom in its truest sense. It happened under Khalistani terrorist forces. God forbid if these pro-khalistani movement people are to be in charge of Punjab again, that would happen again and all freedom of choice will be suppressed. Men will be forced to wear turbans and women will be forced to dress in attire approved by these moral gurus. Those who don’t follow their rules will be derided as not a true sikh and not a valid part of Khalistan and all their freedoms would be taken away and they’d be thrown in the darkest corners of jails. Oh How I fear that day cuz Punjab HAS BEEN very close to that insanity!!!! No civilization and culture can survive without tolerance.
That tolerance is very much a part of the present day Punjab. Please let it be. Posters of Durga are sitting next to those of Sikh Gurus in shops in Punjab. Please let them stay like that. Hindu employees work along with their Sikh counterparts without any friction. Please let it be. Please don’t breed negativity sitting in the cozy comforts of your homes away from Punjab. Let the people there live in peace. Please. Please.
Dear Brother, Jeet Singh Khalsa
I LOOK AT THINGS FROM A NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW. MY HUMBLE REQUEST IS DON’T MALIGN A FELLOW KHALSA BROTHER/ OR SISTER UNLESS YOU DON’T SEE THINGS FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. ONE MORE THING JEET SINGH KHALSA THAT SIKHS DON’T HAVE A SEPARATE MARRIAGE ACT INDIA THEY HAVE REGISTER THERE MARRIAGE UNDER THE HINDU MARRIAGE ACT. IN BOLLYWOOD MOVIES AND INDIAN PLAYS SIKHS ARE OFTEN TARGETED AND RIDICULED. PRIME MINISTER MANMOHAN SINGH DESPITE HAVING THE GUISE OF A SIKH DID NOTHING TO ASSURE THAT THE 1984 ANTI SIKH MASSACRE VICTIMS GOT JUSTICE BY ENSURING THAT SAJJAN KUMAR AND JAGDISH TYTLER WERE PUNISHED FOR PROVOKING HATRED AGAINST ONE PARTICULAR COMMUNITY. THE BJP, RSS, VHP, SHIV SENA, ARYA SAMAJ AND THE CONGRESS PARTY ARE ALL ANTI SIKH PARTIES.
BHUL CHUK MAF KARNI VEERJI.
PS I AS A FELLOW SIKH BROTHER I WOULD DO ARDAS TO WAHEGURU TO UNITE TO ALL SIKHS UNDER ONE UMBRELLA. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND SO IS KHALSA SIKH FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW.
I am an Indian too, and I can say for sure that this 'Indian Sikh' aint any sikh. He or she is someone assigned with duties or rather taken a job from some 'big' organisation to devote their time fully on forums like this(popular one being rediff.com, see for urself) to achieve their agenda. I am cent percent sure 'Indian Sikh' is one among them. Believe it, and my sikh brothers/sisters dont try to indulge in arguments meant to give a predefined meaning of breaking sikh panth by these 'assigned propagandists'. WJKK WJKF. Satsri Akal.
I am incapable of understanding thought processes different to my own, and am recklessly indifferent to the suffering of fellow human beings. I take pride in blindly spewing the hate-filled, bigoted, and hindu-centric agenda of the Hindu propoganda machine. I hate this site (and many others like it), and will do anything to undermine the Sikh faith, its ideology, and its “brainless long-haired” adherents (especially those devious Khalistanis and pesty “human rights” activists.)
Jai Hind!
lol i wish that was true. at least i'd get paid for writing here in that case. 😀 oh well. lagge raho. i am done with this for now.
When will the majority of you grow up? Instead of discussion we get name-calling and conversations that have nothing to do with the topic. This is NOT a 'message board', but rather a discussion forum. Think about that for a second.
For now, as no one had anything pertinent to say about the Jakara conference, this thread is closed.
I am an Indian too, and I can say for sure that this ‘Indian Sikh’ aint any sikh. He or she is someone assigned with duties or rather taken a job from some ‘big’ organisation to devote their time fully on forums like this(popular one being rediff.com, see for urself) to achieve their agenda. I am cent percent sure ‘Indian Sikh’ is one among them. Believe it, and my sikh brothers/sisters dont try to indulge in arguments meant to give a predefined meaning of breaking sikh panth by these ‘assigned propagandists’. WJKK WJKF. Satsri Akal.
I am incapable of understanding thought processes different to my own, and am recklessly indifferent to the suffering of fellow human beings. I take pride in blindly spewing the hate-filled, bigoted, and hindu-centric agenda of the Hindu propoganda machine. I hate this site (and many others like it), and will do anything to undermine the Sikh faith, its ideology, and its “brainless long-haired” adherents (especially those devious Khalistanis and pesty “human rights” activists.)
Jai Hind!
lol i wish that was true. at least i’d get paid for writing here in that case. 😀 oh well. lagge raho. i am done with this for now.
When will the majority of you grow up? Instead of discussion we get name-calling and conversations that have nothing to do with the topic. This is NOT a ‘message board’, but rather a discussion forum. Think about that for a second.
For now, as no one had anything pertinent to say about the Jakara conference, this thread is closed.
Be ware of HINDU's misfits pretending to be SIKH and spreading malicous information.
Never forget 1984 and make no mistake every Hindu in India has blood on his or her hands.
Where is the JUSTICE? if Hindu's are genuine, it is all to easy to lay the problems of inside India on Pakistan and Indian success on Hindus.
REFLECT, Sikhs like other minorities are a minority and it is the Hindu Jants calling the shot with some very very bad elements inside them.
Be ware of HINDU's misfits pretending to be SIKH and spreading malicous information.
Never forget 1984 and make no mistake every Hindu in India has blood on his or her hands.
Where is the JUSTICE? if Hindu's are genuine, it is all to easy to lay the problems of inside India on Pakistan and Indian success on Hindus.
REFLECT, Sikhs like other minorities are a minority and it is the Hindu Jants calling the shot with some very very bad elements inside them.
Indian, please look into a condition called Stockholm Syndrome – if you are a Sikh you may have this and will need help in overcoming it.
My other thoughts are that you are only an agitator sent to propagate your distorted views amongst Sikh youth. We know and see your strategy!
I am beginning to see that the Indian State is most frightened of our discussion, our thoughts and our abilities to expose their crimes against humanity and is doing at that it can to silence them and to convince us to give up our fight for justice. This makes me even more determined to expose them and let the whole world hear our story.
WE WILL NEVER FORGET>>>>>>>>>>>>>>84 and onwards!
Indian, please look into a condition called Stockholm Syndrome – if you are a Sikh you may have this and will need help in overcoming it.
My other thoughts are that you are only an agitator sent to propagate your distorted views amongst Sikh youth. We know and see your strategy!
I am beginning to see that the Indian State is most frightened of our discussion, our thoughts and our abilities to expose their crimes against humanity and is doing at that it can to silence them and to convince us to give up our fight for justice. This makes me even more determined to expose them and let the whole world hear our story.
WE WILL NEVER FORGET>>>>>>>>>>>>>>84 and onwards!
Every body on this planet is running afraid ;
that GOD has sent his Universal message once again as "GURU GRANTH SAHIB" on this planet.
.
Every body on this planet is running afraid ;
that GOD has sent his Universal message once again as "GURU GRANTH SAHIB" on this planet.
.