Sikh Youth Conference on Remembering 1984

Good on you.

What are you guys doing for Sikhs currently suffering persecution in SWAT valley at the hands of Taliban?

Check out this petition along the same vein - www.nov1984.org

IAS,

Bringing awareness by providing a Sikh-forum for people like you and others to discuss it.

awareness is cool but what next? hopefully, the current situation there won't become another 1984 that our kids will be whining on another sikh-forum like this 25 years from now.

Hopefully, nothing tragic should ever befall you so that others aren't as indifferent to your pain and suffering and use words like 'whining'.

You are an Indian nationalist, great. The world needs more blind, uncritical nationalists!

IAS,

Sorry about my last comment. Your new one just appeared and I apologize as well.

We can find points of agreement.

Fateh.

Good on you.

What are you guys doing for Sikhs currently suffering persecution in SWAT valley at the hands of Taliban?

Check out this petition along the same vein - www.nov1984.org

IAS,

Bringing awareness by providing a Sikh-forum for people like you and others to discuss it.

awareness is cool but what next? hopefully, the current situation there won't become another 1984 that our kids will be whining on another sikh-forum like this 25 years from now.

OO this is awesome, can't make it, but wish whoever is doing this the best and thanks for doing it; khalsa one love: our brothers gave their lives for what they believed in. Mahan Gursikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Shaheed uttered Gurmantar till the end. Remember everyone, if our brothers were put to this test, we might be to, in Ardas always ask that we never walk off the path of truth, no matter what! OO and regarding all this talk of "this is against peace and should be forgotten," Brothers and Sisters just remember when the matter of giving up your life or standing up for your faith comes up, there are only a few that are willing; the rest just make up petty excuses and arguments. Same thing happened when the Sixth father introduced arms, those individuals whom became Sikhs for the Rotis and Prashad all ran away and started saying how Guru Sahib has turned away from the teachings of the previous Gurus. These individuals who argue that we should stop remembering the Shaheeds and just forget, have the same ideologies of those people who departed the Sixth father (Miri Piri de Malakh), only in a modern fashion.

Hopefully, nothing tragic should ever befall you so that others aren't as indifferent to your pain and suffering and use words like 'whining'.

You are an Indian nationalist, great. The world needs more blind, uncritical nationalists!

IAS,

Sorry about my last comment. Your new one just appeared and I apologize as well.

We can find points of agreement.

Fateh.

I'm so glad to know of this conference and of this organization. I look forward to participating. Perhaps there can be a TLH meetup!

OO this is awesome, can't make it, but wish whoever is doing this the best and thanks for doing it; khalsa one love: our brothers gave their lives for what they believed in. Mahan Gursikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Shaheed uttered Gurmantar till the end. Remember everyone, if our brothers were put to this test, we might be to, in Ardas always ask that we never walk off the path of truth, no matter what! OO and regarding all this talk of "this is against peace and should be forgotten," Brothers and Sisters just remember when the matter of giving up your life or standing up for your faith comes up, there are only a few that are willing; the rest just make up petty excuses and arguments. Same thing happened when the Sixth father introduced arms, those individuals whom became Sikhs for the Rotis and Prashad all ran away and started saying how Guru Sahib has turned away from the teachings of the previous Gurus. These individuals who argue that we should stop remembering the Shaheeds and just forget, have the same ideologies of those people who departed the Sixth father (Miri Piri de Malakh), only in a modern fashion.

I'm so glad to know of this conference and of this organization. I look forward to participating. Perhaps there can be a TLH meetup!

'whining' disgusting. Indian assumes everyone visiting this forum is sitting abroad and has never experienced 84 first hand. There are visitors to this site that have watched there families raped and butchered in front of there eyes! Pregnant women and infants weren't spared. indian backs kp gill fully in her other post. Jodha ji what point of agreement can you find with this imposter. indian can't understand Sikh unity, how we feel dukh and sukh of each other because she has never felt the love and belonging of the Panth.

I did apologize, kaur, if you failed to read the comment. Given your biased tone, I can understand why you chose to omit acknowledging it when clearly others did acknowledge my apology.

As for KPS Gill, I don't back him at all. I said that he did whatever the best he could do in his role as an officer assigned to eliminate terrorism. The route he took was terrible but ... was there any other choice? None of us know. No one knows what was right or wrong. It is not a case of black and white as you make it out to be. Situation is far more complex that what it appears from a distance.

I do feel that Sikhs were wronged. I also feel Muslims were wronged in Gujarat and so were Christians in Orissa recently. I also believe strongly that the culprits of 1984 should be brought to justice. It's unfortunate that it hasn't happened yet but cases like that are never brought to justice in India. Reason for that goes beyond discrimination against minorities. The entire political system there is corrupt. It needs a proper cleansing and it has to start with the people who vote (or choose not to vote). It has to happen with people stopping to feed into the system of bribery etc.

Therefore, my point of disagreements with this site are only and only these:

-Instead of viewing Indian govt's inability to bring 1984 culprits to justice as a discrimination against a particular sect, view it as a system failure due to widespread corruption that has rotten the system dry completely. Approach this situation from that angle and have community leaders negotiate with leaders at the center from that point of view instead of religiously charged agenda.

-Also, question as to why people of Punjab voted for Congress (responsible for 1984) in the past and are still voting for it? Also, why is Akali Dal (the ruling party of Punjab) forming alliances with BJP (the Hindu extremist party) to remain in power?

I hope what I wrote above was read with a rational mind and not that of a zealot. I am sure many of you here are capable of a rational discussion.

'whining' disgusting. Indian assumes everyone visiting this forum is sitting abroad and has never experienced 84 first hand. There are visitors to this site that have watched there families raped and butchered in front of there eyes! Pregnant women and infants weren't spared. indian backs kp gill fully in her other post. Jodha ji what point of agreement can you find with this imposter. indian can't understand Sikh unity, how we feel dukh and sukh of each other because she has never felt the love and belonging of the Panth.

Here we go again with "Indian Sikh" adding her two cents to the article. KPS Gill was a cold blooded murderer because he only went after Sikh men wearing keski or kirpans. To me she seems like one of those people who will comment on everything relating to the Sikh religion but, she doesn't even have enough guts to take Amrit and become a true daughter of the Sikh Panth. There are many reasons why the Indian government attacked the Golden Temple, but among them the main reasons for the attack was simply to destroy Sikhism at its roots. In order to understand this it is important to first look at how Sikh/Hindu relations started. Hindus have been against Sikhism since the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, most notably the Brahmins (upper caste Hindus) because Sikhism rejects the idea of a caste system. It teaches equality for all and declares women equal to men. Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached the message of One God, which is totally against Hinduism. So Hindus, mostly Brahmins (the upper class Hindus), turned against Sikhism. During the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji not only Brahmins but also other castes turned against Sikhism. Guru Ji established Khalsa and everyone was given full rights and everyone was required to sit together and eat Langar. Brahmins didn't like lower caste people sitting equally to them and second and third class people didn't like lower class people taking up arms for self-defense under the command of Guru Ji. Guru Ji not only fought Moughals but also Hindu kings who were jealous of Guru Ji's power. Hindus always betrayed Sikhs. After the British annexed the Sikh Kingdom, a Hindu sect Arya Samaj turned against Sikhs and tried to declare that Sikhs were actually Hindus and Sikhism was just another sect of Hinduism. For a while this anti-Sikh propaganda slowed, but with the gaining of Indian independence, the Hindus once again resumed and increased their negative activities. While under British control Gandhi and Nehru promised Sikhs that they would have full rights and freedom. They also stated that Sikhs would have the rights to rule Punjab without any interference from the government and that no laws would be passed without discussing them with Sikhs. Gandhi said "You (Sikhs) take my word that if ever the Congress or I betray you, you will be justified to draw the sword as taught by Guru Gobind Singh." But as soon as the British left India Sikhs were fired from their jobs and Hindus were hired. Sikhs were declared as traitors of India.

On top of this when the Indian constitution was written Sikhs refused to sign it in the parliament house because Sikhs were declared “Hindus with long hair.” Gandhi told Sikhs that if they cut their hair and give up their faith and joined the Hindus, they would be given the full right and hired at the jobs (the very same liberties which were denied them) but Sikhs refused to do so.

The Indian government broke all of their promises and forgot all about the liberties the Sikhs had essentially won for India. When Nehru was asked about creating a separate Punjabi state, he brushed it off by saying "Circumstances have changed now." When China attacked India, it was the Sikhs who saved Nehru's life but he still thought of Sikhs as his enemies and mistreated them. Sikhs fought bravely against Pakistan in the wars of 1965 and 1971, yet the Indian government paid no attention to Sikhs' loyalty. When Pakistan army agreed to surrender, Hindu officers were sent to sign the negotiation instead of Sikhs. At this the Muslims of Pakistan refused to surrender saying that "brave people (Muslims) surrender only to brave people (Sikhs)." So Pakistan surrendered to the Sikhs, but Indian television did not show this on the television. They showed only hands. Sikhs were not shown on TV. Despite their heroism and valor Sikhs were not even dignified with credit for their labors.

In 1978 the Indian government sent an agent, Gurbachan, to Punjab to disillusion and slowly destroy Sikhism. He started by speaking against Sikhism and insulting the Sikhs Holy Scripture Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sikhs could not tolerate this outrageous propaganda and they launched a peaceful march to stop him. But the agent called “Nirankari Gurbachan” had already had Indian troops with him and had ordered them to shoot Sikhs. 13 Sikhs were killed and most others were injured. No one was punished for this massacre and the government blamed Sikhs for the occurrence. This angered Sikhs and they rebelled against the Indian government. Then a religious leader, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, took power in the Sikh Quam and started a campaign to preaching Sikhism. He preached the truth and woke the Sikh nation. He openly spoke against the Indian government's activities against Sikhism. He said, "Many Sikhs have been killed by Indian government but not even a single case has been registered. But when a Hindu was killed by police, president Indira Gandhi herself came over to his house and gave his family a hundred thousand rupees and the police officer was punished. Is this not discrimination? Three Sikhs hijacked a passenger plane for the cause of religion and not even a single passenger was harmed, The Indian government declared them as terrorists and they were killed at the airport. But when Hindus hijacked a plane to free a jailed Indira Gandhi, they were given positions in the government and the government declared them as heroes after meeting their demands and letting a guilty Indira go free. Is this not discrimination?"

These messages influenced people very much. After hearing the truth, people started supporting Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale and a freedom movement rose. Many people became Sikhs. Sometimes, as many as 10,000 people would initiated into Sikhism at one ceremony. (At that time there was no mention of Khalistan.) Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and many political leaders launched a peaceful march. They wanted the Indian government to grant them full rights and treat them as first class citizens. An Anandpur Sahib resolution was brought to attention by Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, which included many demands for Punjab and Sikhs such as:

1. Regional autonomy for Punjab. (The Indian Government was interfering)

2. Return of Chandigarh to Punjab. (Chandigarh was split as a duel capital for two states)

3. Special status for Sikhs in the Indian union. (Sikhs were called “long haired Hindus” not Sikhs)

4. A Supreme Court review of Punjab river waters, (Punjab’s water was being sent to other states)

5. Return of the Punjabi speaking areas to Punjab, (The government split Punjab into many separate states)

6. Provision of a fare share of electricity to Punjab, (Electricity was being split and not provided fairly to Punjab)

7. Declaring Amritsar a Holy City (Hindu and Buddhists Cities were named “holy cities” but the center of Sikhism was not given such a status)

and some other religious demands.

The Indian government paid no attention to Sikh concerns and began arresting Sikhs blindly. About 150,000 Sikhs were arrested and many were killed- still not a single demand was met. Sant Jernail Singh said, "There is no solution to Sikhs' problems without freedom." Riots between Hindus and Sikhs broke out. When Sikhs were killed, police took no action but when Hindus were killed, not only victims were punished but also innocent Sikhs were killed. In other states of India many Sikhs were killed. All Sikhs traveling in trains and buses were stopped and killed. In Haryana, Hindus were called from villages by beating drums to kill Sikhs. Every train was stopped and Sikhs were dragged out and killed. At this point Sant Jarnail Singh was assured that the Indian government was making plans to attack the Golden Temple at Amritsar. He addressed the Sikhs and advised them to be ready to defend the Golden Temple. He said, "The day Indian government attacks the Golden Temple, foundation of Khalistan will be laid."

When the movement got out of the government's control, Punjab was handed over to the military. The Indian government had planned to attack Golden Temple in the first week of June because Martyr day of Fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev Ji was on June 6th and Indian government knew there was going to be a big Sikh gathering. The Government knew that Sikhs would gather in thousands. Punjab was totally under military control. A curfew was announced. Telephone lines were cut and all press reporters were asked to leave Punjab. Punjab was completely disconnected from the rest of the world. The entire state was surrounded by troops and all paths were blocked. Nobody was allowed to enter or leave. All the Sikhs were being harassed all over India.

On May 31st the Indian government launched an attack on the Golden Temple with 500,000 troops. There were only 251 Sikhs inside to protect the complex of the Golden Temple. But it was not a big attack at first because Sikhs were coming to Golden Temple to celebrate Martyr day of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Sikhs held the army back for four days. Many troops lost their lives but not a single person of army could enter the Temple. Then the Indian government brought tanks and destroyed the Akaal Takhat Sahib, which is right in front of the Golden Temple. On June 6th, when all Sikh fighters became martyrs, the war was over and the Indian troops entered the temple. They did not even respect the holiness of the sacred place and entered with their shoes on, showing utter indecency. When Indian troops found that only 251 men had stopped them from entering the temple for 6 days they started killing innocent Sikhs who had come there to visit the Temple. This was to hide their humiliation. The small number of heroic Sikhs killed even the best of their army men. Sikhs in the temple were lined up and shot---dead, not even children were spared. About 50,000 Sikhs were killed that day. Priceless Sikh artifacts were burnt. All the Literature written by the Gurus was taken away by the army, but they claimed that it was burnt while bombing the Temple. The whole Amritsar city was burnt. Many visitors were killed and arrested. Sikhs' shops were looted and houses were burnt. Hindu mobs went to every Sikh house and burnt Sikhs alive, women were dishonored even pregnant Sikh women. Most Sikhs that were killed were between ages from 5 to 40. Their main target was young Sikh males. The Indian government feared that young Sikhs would rebel. They thought if they killed young Sikh men then there would be no Sikh marriages and in next 10 or 15 years the Sikh population would not increase and they would eventually die out.

Indian government started making excuses about why it had become necessary to attack Golden Temple. Indian government claimed that Sant Jarnail Singh and his companions were using the building as their hiding place and had kept deadly weapons inside the building. Furthermore, they said they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale and drive him out of Golden Temple. But my point is if they wanted to arrest Bhindranwale then why couldn't they arrest him when he preached all over India. He went to Bombay, Delhi and other major cities. So why couldn't the Indian government arrest him there? Why couldn't they arrest him at Mehta Choank? If the Golden Temple was attacked to drive out Sant Bhindranwale then why were other more than 50 Sikh temples attacked on the same day in Punjab by the army? Why were thousands of innocent people killed? Why did the government have to use tanks and heavy artillery to drive out few Sikhs? The truth is, it was a big plan of the Hindu government to destroy Sikhism and merge it into Hinduism. If you just look at what happened to Sikhs before 1984, it makes clear sense of why the Indian government attacked Golden Temple. Just look at the Olympic games of 1983 where no person with the last name "Singh" was allowed to enter in Delhi. If Bhindranwale was the target then why didn't the army leave Punjab right after it was over? Why was the literature burned? Why did Indian troops linger and disrespectfully smoke cigars inside the temple?

All of the visitors to the Golden Temple were arrested and they all starved to death because they were not given any food to eat not even a single drop of water. When someone asked for water, the army men said "Drink that blood on the floor. That's what you deserve. You deserve to die." Many visitors were locked up in the rooms for two days without any food, water, or electricity and they all starved to death. The Golden Temple remained under the army control for months. WHY?!!! Because Indian government wanted to put someone in charge who would support them. Using Sant Jarnail Singh's name was just a mere excuse. The truth is he was a real leader who openly spoke for the rights of Sikhs. In 1982, he had already said that Indian government was making plans to attack Golden Temple. Indian government built a model of Golden Temple in Dehradoon and the army was given special training.

When Sikhs in other states found out about the attack, they rebelled. Most of them who were in the Indian army and were far away from Punjab. They quickly left for Punjab and thwarted and killed many Hindus in power and officers. This put a stop to Indian army's mission of killing innocent Sikhs in Punjab. Indian government turned its attention to Sikh military and tried to stop them before they could reach Punjab. Many Sikhs were killed on the way and many were arrested. There are about 60,000 Sikhs in jails without any charge or trial. Five months later Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards. One of them became martyr at the spot and other was hanged later after severe tortures. About 5,000 Sikhs were killed in four days. The mobs were organized by the government officials. Every Hindu was given 500 rupees and one liquor bottle to kill Sikhs. Mobs were given addresses of Sikhs' houses and shops so that their property could be destroyed. No Hindu house was attacked, only Sikhs' houses were burned and Sikhs were killed and burned alive. Most young Sikh males were killed and many young Sikh females were dishonored.

After Operation Blue Star and the Sikh massacre in Delhi, Sikh rebellions took over Golden Temple in order to restore the respect and honor it was entitled to, but the Indian government didn't like this. They wanted the Golden Temple under their control. So another attack was launched on the Golden Temple in 1987, called "Operation Black Thunder". This time only Sikh rebellions were the main target. Thousands were killed and dead bodies lay inside the Holy place for many days. My father was a Ragi in the Golden Temple during that time. He tells of the brutality of the Indian government who refused to remove the bodies saying that, those dead bodies were Sikhs' and it was Sikhs' responsibility to remove them. According to my father, all employees of SGPC volunteered to remove the bodies. My father said the bodies lay there for days in the hot sun because it was summer time. The bodies were so rotten that when my father tried to pull one body by its arm, the skin came off in his hand. People could not even enter the Temple because of the smell. Many trucks were loaded with dead bodies and all were burned with kerosene oil.After the second attack, Sikhs organized themselves into a military power in order to fight the Indian government. These brave Sikhs avenged the massacre in Delhi and killed many traitors. Many Sikhs have left India to escape religious persecution. Sikhs have spread out all over the world to enjoy the freedom and have better lives. The Indian government has killed over 1 million to 1.2 million Sikhs since 1947 (figures according to "THE SIKHS IN HISTORY" by Dr. Sangat Singh). Indian government has also killed 50,000 Christians and 100,000 Muslims. In November 1984 following the assassination of Indira Gandhi, mobs lead by Congress leaders committed murder, loot, arson and rape, across India for over a week, however the worst effected area was the capital of India Delhi.

Due to the large span of area the actual number of those dead is unknown, official figures of those who died are over 4000 and 60,000 were rendered homeless in Delhi alone, these figures to not incorporate those “missing”.

“India is ablaze with hate and anger. In city after city from one corner of the country to the other enraged mobs have gone and are going about systematically burning and looting Sikh properties and assaulting Sikhs without discrimination.” 1The Times of India

“Sikhs were sought out and burned to death. Children were killed, shops looted, cars burnt, markets destroyed, houses gutted. Trains were stopped and Sikhs were picked out and murdered.” Akbar M.J.

“Around 300 Sikh officers and men in uniform were done to death in the presence of non-Sikh soldiers, who stood as silent spectators.”

Police officers “stood by and watched arson, rape, looting and murder, without making any attempt to intervene to protect citizens brlonging to the Sikh minority, without attempting to dissuade the attackers to call for reinforcements or other support, or even to inform the fire brigade.”

“Many people complained that, in some cases, the police were not merely hanging back, but giving active support.”

“We started from the foot paths after the 1947 Partition, now we get back to it in our old age” wept an old couple, they had been deprived of all their belongings and also a young son.

Listen Indian Sikh, clearly your not able or willing to consider things from our perspective, and neither are we from your logic or whatever. I think there is no point in continuing to argue, this isn't a discussion anymore. So perhaps ceasing any further talk regarding 1984 between you and the rest is the best option. I am not judging your thoughts/beliefs, I am just saying we're not getting anywhere and this has went far enough, so it stops here for me...

Khalsa Sikh, brother there isn't no point in trying to argue with Indian Sikh. She won't be able to see things from our views or we from her's. Khalsa Sikh Bro, don't worry, just remember THIS IS NOTHING NEW. The cycle has always came on us, first the Moghuls, then the Afghans; after the demise of this enemy, more will arise, but in the end, Dasam Father will lead us to victory. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh: “We will not cause any hurdle to a just rule, but if an evil regime tries to destroy our religion and its practices, with the support of Satguru, Akaal Purakh, we will shake its very roots.” No one truly wanted Khalistan, just equality, but, there won't be anymore bargaining.