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Sikh Tradition in Translation
Over the past few years the website Sikhitothemax.com has become one of the premier tools for English-fluent Sikh youth to access their Guru Granth Sahib. While STTM has problems that can be addressed at another time, it is important to realize the effect that this tool has had. 
Many Gurdwaras throughout the world have added STTM translations as part of their regular programs and the projection system in the Gurdwara is fast becoming the norm.
But is it enough?
In a recent article in the Fresno Bee, reporter Vanessa Colon looks at the question of “losing tradition in translation.”
Colon interviews a number of Central Valley Sikhs and finds that the Sikh youth are often not engaged with their Gurdwara. Although there a number of reasons, she delves into the question of language first and foremost. Some local Fresno Sikhs blamed the Sikh youth for not learning enough Punjabi. However, I see that this approach has problematic for there are now a number of Punjabi/Khalsa schools in California and beyond. However, instruction one day a week for an hour will not ever provide a sufficient language base for one to understand Gurbani.
My favorite part about Colon’s article is that she uses the lens of a larger immigrant perspective. Colon does not fixate on the Sikh situation as something completely unique and she brings in perspectives from other immigrant groups in Fresno, namely the Armenians.
A certain similarity is striking:
“In the Armenian situation, the second generation of young Armenians did not know how to read and write in Armenian and resisted learning it,” she said.
Mirigian-Emerzian, 86, said her parents forced her to go to an Armenian school, and she attended Valley Armenian churches, where the services were in Armenian.
“My parents retained the custom and spoke the language well, but I was born and raised here. As a young kid, I didn’t want to learn Armenian, but as I grew up, I realized it was an advantage to learn another language,” she said. “I wanted to be American. I thought why should I speak something else?” [link]
A religious studies professor from UCSB, Rudy Busto, provides some analytical perspective:
“This is very typical of what happens in the second generation. The usual model … is the immigrant church or religious institution is tied to the old country,” Busto said. The younger generation is torn between their parents’ traditions and their own Americanized values.”[link]
However, the situation may not be all bleak. Few people I know would ever suggest that the Gurdwara should move to English-only. However, for the youth, I do believe that katha (exegesis) should be conducted in extremely basic Punjabi or at times even in English.
While continuing to call for the Sikh youth to engage with Punjabi is important (in fact on this blog, it has been discussed before), I do believe that within 1 to 2 generations (meaning your grandchildren), they will not speak Punjabi. You can already see the beginnings of this in Canada and England (in families that have been settled there for 2-4 generations), where there are longer immigrant histories. The depletion of new immigrants from Punjab due to immigration restrictions after 9/11 will result in the decrease of the traditional infusion of new Punjabi-language speakers.
Although so goes Punjabi, I know that we can maintain our Sikhi. I think we can learn much from other religious communities as well. Reformed Jews maintain Hebrew for all prayers, but English is used for exegesis. I do believe that Sikhs may have to follow suit, but we have a transitional stage where simplistic Punjabi may be preferable at this time. Other thoughts and suggestions?
[For reasons of full disclosure, I have previously mentioned that I have helped with the Jakara Movement organization in the past]
Logging you in...
What kind of problems have you found with STTM? What sorts of limitations are there which you are talking about? Would you care to acquaint us on the issue of opening bhangra schools in Gurudwaras, will this help the Sikh youth? This is suggested in the Fresno bee article by a representative of one of the Gurudwaras there.
I agree that there are limitations to interpretations. Firstly, as much as you read "Here, there, in every body. Only you, Only you, My Beloved." It will have an effect, but not as much as "Eethai oothai, ghat ghat, ghat ghat, thoohee thoohee mohinaa."
Gurbani is not Punjabi. Gurbani contains words from various different dialects of Punjabi, as well as Hindi, Braj bhasha, Sanskrit, Urdu, and more. It contains words common to Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and others. So the expanse of the language used in Gurbani, if you look outside of just the use of Gurmukhi script, is actually relevant to directly relevant to billions of people. In terms of metaphors, there are Asian metaphors but also general metaphors relevant to everyone everywhere. In terms of historical figures, Gurbani mentions a lot from the Ramayan and Mahabarat tradition, but also Islamic tradition, such as Ram Chandar, Sita, Krishna, Krishna's mother, the angel of death Azrael, Adam (Baba Adam), and others.
Basically my point is that if you learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji you will be exposed to spiritual knowledge using the languages, metaphors, historical figures, etc. directly relevant to the cultures and traditions of billions of people around the world. Meanwhile the general teachings remain universal. If you learn Dasam Granth Sahib, it will further expose you to even more divine knowledge about the realities of the world.
I think in our own limited knowledge of Gurbani we assume Gurbani is all about Punjab and Punjabi culture. This is not true.
Secondly, learning Punjabi is very important. However, as Gurbani is universal - the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message. For example, there is a shabad "Ahankareeaa nindkaa pitth day, NaamDeo mukh laaeiaa."
In order to understand this shabad you need to know who Bhagat NaamDev jee was, what the sakhi was, who Pandits were, and then in that context what does this mean for a spiritual person. All of this can be explained in any language. So the extrapolation, interpretation, discourse about Gurbani can take place in any language... and this is one of the things we are failing with, because we don't have adequate English-speaking parcharaks. There are some. However, often some people are native English speakers born to Punjabi Sikh families and they ASSUME they have a God-given right to preach, whereas they know little about Gurbani. This is a delusion. On the other hand there are some who know about Gurbani, but they don't know how to speak English and no English speaking youth is willing to come learn from them and share their knowledge further with the youth. So the solution is for native English speakers to learn, meditate on and practice Gurbani, and then share it; and for knowledgeable Punjabi-speaking Gurbani practitioners to learn English, or at least teach bilingual youth so that they can further spread the message.
Gurbani is not Punjabi. Gurbani contains words from various different dialects of Punjabi, as well as Hindi, Braj bhasha, Sanskrit, Urdu, and more. It contains words common to Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and others. So the expanse of the language used in Gurbani, if you look outside of just the use of Gurmukhi script, is actually relevant to directly relevant to billions of people. In terms of metaphors, there are Asian metaphors but also general metaphors relevant to everyone everywhere. In terms of historical figures, Gurbani mentions a lot from the Ramayan and Mahabarat tradition, but also Islamic tradition, such as Ram Chandar, Sita, Krishna, Krishna's mother, the angel of death Azrael, Adam (Baba Adam), and others.
Basically my point is that if you learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji you will be exposed to spiritual knowledge using the languages, metaphors, historical figures, etc. directly relevant to the cultures and traditions of billions of people around the world. Meanwhile the general teachings remain universal. If you learn Dasam Granth Sahib, it will further expose you to even more divine knowledge about the realities of the world.
I think in our own limited knowledge of Gurbani we assume Gurbani is all about Punjab and Punjabi culture. This is not true.
Secondly, learning Punjabi is very important. However, as Gurbani is universal - the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message. For example, there is a shabad "Ahankareeaa nindkaa pitth day, NaamDeo mukh laaeiaa."
In order to understand this shabad you need to know who Bhagat NaamDev jee was, what the sakhi was, who Pandits were, and then in that context what does this mean for a spiritual person. All of this can be explained in any language. So the extrapolation, interpretation, discourse about Gurbani can take place in any language... and this is one of the things we are failing with, because we don't have adequate English-speaking parcharaks. There are some. However, often some people are native English speakers born to Punjabi Sikh families and they ASSUME they have a God-given right to preach, whereas they know little about Gurbani. This is a delusion. On the other hand there are some who know about Gurbani, but they don't know how to speak English and no English speaking youth is willing to come learn from them and share their knowledge further with the youth. So the solution is for native English speakers to learn, meditate on and practice Gurbani, and then share it; and for knowledgeable Punjabi-speaking Gurbani practitioners to learn English, or at least teach bilingual youth so that they can further spread the message.
the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message.
This is so true. There are layers of meaning and references that are lost when translated to English (partially because of the inherent nature of translations).
But in addition to the nature of translating from an original language, STTM translations are hard to connect with because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? "Command" is so different from "hukam," ... etc).
It destroys the poetry for me.
This is so true. There are layers of meaning and references that are lost when translated to English (partially because of the inherent nature of translations).
But in addition to the nature of translating from an original language, STTM translations are hard to connect with because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? "Command" is so different from "hukam," ... etc).
It destroys the poetry for me.
Jodha,
Your wrote:
ou can already see the beginnings of this in Canada and England (in families that have been settled there for 2-4 generations), where there are longer immigrant histories. The depletion of new immigrants from Punjab due to immigration restrictions after 9/11 will result in the decrease of the traditional infusion of new Punjabi-language speakers.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don't know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Before you make generalizations, which you seem wont to do, you should do some research and back it up.
Mr. Singh's response seems well thought out and I would put forth that you ask him or someone else who knows something about Gurbani and Sikh Dharm to contribute posts to this blog site in place of Jodha. Thank you Mr. Singh for your comment, I found it uplifting and spot on.
best regards,
Kaptaan
Your wrote:
ou can already see the beginnings of this in Canada and England (in families that have been settled there for 2-4 generations), where there are longer immigrant histories. The depletion of new immigrants from Punjab due to immigration restrictions after 9/11 will result in the decrease of the traditional infusion of new Punjabi-language speakers.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don't know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Before you make generalizations, which you seem wont to do, you should do some research and back it up.
Mr. Singh's response seems well thought out and I would put forth that you ask him or someone else who knows something about Gurbani and Sikh Dharm to contribute posts to this blog site in place of Jodha. Thank you Mr. Singh for your comment, I found it uplifting and spot on.
best regards,
Kaptaan
What kind of problems have you found with STTM? What sorts of limitations are there which you are talking about? Would you care to acquaint us on the issue of opening bhangra schools in Gurudwaras, will this help the Sikh youth? This is suggested in the Fresno bee article by a representative of one of the Gurudwaras there.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don’t know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Kaptaan is right there is no shortage of immigrants coming from Canada to Punjab. Almost all of them move to the Toronto or Vancouver area. Alot of the immigrant that come are from the villages of the Punjab and not very educated. Also the sad thing is that some of them are marrying there own cousins or paying somebody money to marry them just get a Canadian passport.
Kaptaan is right there is no shortage of immigrants coming from Canada to Punjab. Almost all of them move to the Toronto or Vancouver area. Alot of the immigrant that come are from the villages of the Punjab and not very educated. Also the sad thing is that some of them are marrying there own cousins or paying somebody money to marry them just get a Canadian passport.
I've noticed on this website and other punjabi/sikh related website the topic of the young people not speaking the language or understanding comes up alot.
Yet there is another issue of the older generation among the new immigrants who can't speak English and have very little understanding of the country they live is not the same as the villages of the Punjab. For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
Yet there is another issue of the older generation among the new immigrants who can't speak English and have very little understanding of the country they live is not the same as the villages of the Punjab. For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
I agree that there are limitations to interpretations. Firstly, as much as you read "Here, there, in every body. Only you, Only you, My Beloved." It will have an effect, but not as much as "Eethai oothai, ghat ghat, ghat ghat, thoohee thoohee mohinaa."
Gurbani is not Punjabi. Gurbani contains words from various different dialects of Punjabi, as well as Hindi, Braj bhasha, Sanskrit, Urdu, and more. It contains words common to Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and others. So the expanse of the language used in Gurbani, if you look outside of just the use of Gurmukhi script, is actually relevant to directly relevant to billions of people. In terms of metaphors, there are Asian metaphors but also general metaphors relevant to everyone everywhere. In terms of historical figures, Gurbani mentions a lot from the Ramayan and Mahabarat tradition, but also Islamic tradition, such as Ram Chandar, Sita, Krishna, Krishna's mother, the angel of death Azrael, Adam (Baba Adam), and others.
Basically my point is that if you learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji you will be exposed to spiritual knowledge using the languages, metaphors, historical figures, etc. directly relevant to the cultures and traditions of billions of people around the world. Meanwhile the general teachings remain universal. If you learn Dasam Granth Sahib, it will further expose you to even more divine knowledge about the realities of the world.
I think in our own limited knowledge of Gurbani we assume Gurbani is all about Punjab and Punjabi culture. This is not true.
Secondly, learning Punjabi is very important. However, as Gurbani is universal - the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message. For example, there is a shabad "Ahankareeaa nindkaa pitth day, NaamDeo mukh laaeiaa."
In order to understand this shabad you need to know who Bhagat NaamDev jee was, what the sakhi was, who Pandits were, and then in that context what does this mean for a spiritual person. All of this can be explained in any language. So the extrapolation, interpretation, discourse about Gurbani can take place in any language... and this is one of the things we are failing with, because we don't have adequate English-speaking parcharaks. There are some. However, often some people are native English speakers born to Punjabi Sikh families and they ASSUME they have a God-given right to preach, whereas they know little about Gurbani. This is a delusion. On the other hand there are some who know about Gurbani, but they don't know how to speak English and no English speaking youth is willing to come learn from them and share their knowledge further with the youth. So the solution is for native English speakers to learn, meditate on and practice Gurbani, and then share it; and for knowledgeable Punjabi-speaking Gurbani practitioners to learn English, or at least teach bilingual youth so that they can further spread the message.
Gurbani is not Punjabi. Gurbani contains words from various different dialects of Punjabi, as well as Hindi, Braj bhasha, Sanskrit, Urdu, and more. It contains words common to Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and others. So the expanse of the language used in Gurbani, if you look outside of just the use of Gurmukhi script, is actually relevant to directly relevant to billions of people. In terms of metaphors, there are Asian metaphors but also general metaphors relevant to everyone everywhere. In terms of historical figures, Gurbani mentions a lot from the Ramayan and Mahabarat tradition, but also Islamic tradition, such as Ram Chandar, Sita, Krishna, Krishna's mother, the angel of death Azrael, Adam (Baba Adam), and others.
Basically my point is that if you learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji you will be exposed to spiritual knowledge using the languages, metaphors, historical figures, etc. directly relevant to the cultures and traditions of billions of people around the world. Meanwhile the general teachings remain universal. If you learn Dasam Granth Sahib, it will further expose you to even more divine knowledge about the realities of the world.
I think in our own limited knowledge of Gurbani we assume Gurbani is all about Punjab and Punjabi culture. This is not true.
Secondly, learning Punjabi is very important. However, as Gurbani is universal - the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message. For example, there is a shabad "Ahankareeaa nindkaa pitth day, NaamDeo mukh laaeiaa."
In order to understand this shabad you need to know who Bhagat NaamDev jee was, what the sakhi was, who Pandits were, and then in that context what does this mean for a spiritual person. All of this can be explained in any language. So the extrapolation, interpretation, discourse about Gurbani can take place in any language... and this is one of the things we are failing with, because we don't have adequate English-speaking parcharaks. There are some. However, often some people are native English speakers born to Punjabi Sikh families and they ASSUME they have a God-given right to preach, whereas they know little about Gurbani. This is a delusion. On the other hand there are some who know about Gurbani, but they don't know how to speak English and no English speaking youth is willing to come learn from them and share their knowledge further with the youth. So the solution is for native English speakers to learn, meditate on and practice Gurbani, and then share it; and for knowledgeable Punjabi-speaking Gurbani practitioners to learn English, or at least teach bilingual youth so that they can further spread the message.
the more important thing than learning the language, is learning the context, intention and spiritual wisdom in the message.
This is so true. There are layers of meaning and references that are lost when translated to English (partially because of the inherent nature of translations).
But in addition to the nature of translating from an original language, STTM translations are hard to connect with because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? "Command" is so different from "hukam," ... etc).
It destroys the poetry for me.
This is so true. There are layers of meaning and references that are lost when translated to English (partially because of the inherent nature of translations).
But in addition to the nature of translating from an original language, STTM translations are hard to connect with because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? "Command" is so different from "hukam," ... etc).
It destroys the poetry for me.
Jodha,
Your wrote:
ou can already see the beginnings of this in Canada and England (in families that have been settled there for 2-4 generations), where there are longer immigrant histories. The depletion of new immigrants from Punjab due to immigration restrictions after 9/11 will result in the decrease of the traditional infusion of new Punjabi-language speakers.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don't know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Before you make generalizations, which you seem wont to do, you should do some research and back it up.
Mr. Singh's response seems well thought out and I would put forth that you ask him or someone else who knows something about Gurbani and Sikh Dharm to contribute posts to this blog site in place of Jodha. Thank you Mr. Singh for your comment, I found it uplifting and spot on.
best regards,
Kaptaan
Your wrote:
ou can already see the beginnings of this in Canada and England (in families that have been settled there for 2-4 generations), where there are longer immigrant histories. The depletion of new immigrants from Punjab due to immigration restrictions after 9/11 will result in the decrease of the traditional infusion of new Punjabi-language speakers.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don't know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Before you make generalizations, which you seem wont to do, you should do some research and back it up.
Mr. Singh's response seems well thought out and I would put forth that you ask him or someone else who knows something about Gurbani and Sikh Dharm to contribute posts to this blog site in place of Jodha. Thank you Mr. Singh for your comment, I found it uplifting and spot on.
best regards,
Kaptaan
For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
Perhaps it's not so much discomfort, but annoyance at your incessant need to state immigrants from Punjab are generally uneducated (implying some sort of lower status to them due to their lack of education), and that the elderly are bad citizens for not being able to speak English.
Canada will survive if our elderly do not all learn to speak English.
Morever, your comment that these individuals do not understand that Canada is different than the villages in Punjab, is utterly stupid. Are you sure you're not spending most of your time with the mentally infirm? Outside of the mentally infirm, I've yet to meet a Punjabi immigrant who was mistaking Canada for a village in the Punjab.
I'm guessing your frustration stems primarily from the lack of assimilation of these immigrants. News flash: these immigrants have no obligation to assimilate to some imaginary concept of Canadian culture that you seem to think exists, and have placed on some grand pedestal.
Your comments regarding your own people serve well to reflect what can only be a sad lack of self-esteem. Spend some time with these "uneducated" and non-English speaking elders - you may learn something and maybe even develop a little bit of pride in your own religion, culture and traditions.
Perhaps it's not so much discomfort, but annoyance at your incessant need to state immigrants from Punjab are generally uneducated (implying some sort of lower status to them due to their lack of education), and that the elderly are bad citizens for not being able to speak English.
Canada will survive if our elderly do not all learn to speak English.
Morever, your comment that these individuals do not understand that Canada is different than the villages in Punjab, is utterly stupid. Are you sure you're not spending most of your time with the mentally infirm? Outside of the mentally infirm, I've yet to meet a Punjabi immigrant who was mistaking Canada for a village in the Punjab.
I'm guessing your frustration stems primarily from the lack of assimilation of these immigrants. News flash: these immigrants have no obligation to assimilate to some imaginary concept of Canadian culture that you seem to think exists, and have placed on some grand pedestal.
Your comments regarding your own people serve well to reflect what can only be a sad lack of self-esteem. Spend some time with these "uneducated" and non-English speaking elders - you may learn something and maybe even develop a little bit of pride in your own religion, culture and traditions.
because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? “Command” is so different from “hukam,” … etc).
Yes, this is true. There are many instances where Gurbani is referring to the Abrahamic tradition (kateb, kuran, Azraeel, Adam), and also instances where Gurbani is referring to God in a male metaphor (pitha / baap, pir / kanth). However, that is not a license to use patriarchal or Abrahamic language as a default.
Many times Gurbani refers to non-Islamic metaphors and female metaphors, but they are translated in the Abrahamic Christian or male translation. This is because of the shadow of Imperialism on our translators, who are mostly university educated expatriate Indians trying to normalize their Gurbani experience with the English Orientalist academia. In other words, they try to suck up to the man by changing the meaning of the Word of God.
Yes, this is true. There are many instances where Gurbani is referring to the Abrahamic tradition (kateb, kuran, Azraeel, Adam), and also instances where Gurbani is referring to God in a male metaphor (pitha / baap, pir / kanth). However, that is not a license to use patriarchal or Abrahamic language as a default.
Many times Gurbani refers to non-Islamic metaphors and female metaphors, but they are translated in the Abrahamic Christian or male translation. This is because of the shadow of Imperialism on our translators, who are mostly university educated expatriate Indians trying to normalize their Gurbani experience with the English Orientalist academia. In other words, they try to suck up to the man by changing the meaning of the Word of God.
Kaptaan,
In the meantime you will be merely responding to me. Re-read the paragraph. I am talking in the future tense. Now continue your diatribe.
------------------
With regards to my statement, by no means was I trying to suggest that immigration to Canada is decreasing at this time.
I wrote that you can see the decrease in Punjabi-language knowledge in THOSE PARTICULAR Canadian families that have been in Canada longer.
Decreasing immigration numbers from Punjab post-9/11 is occurring in the United States. The effects will not be seen for a generation.
Even those that do learn Punjabi language in schools and even in college, I have seen their abilities. In California a few universities teach Punjabi. However, most of the graduates learn to read (although they may not have developed a vocabulary to understand what they are reading), write (little more than basic sentences, not compositions), and speak (about the same as they normally do). Despite the limitations of language instruction (and Punjabi has hardly attained the critical level of language pedagogy as seen in Spanish, English, French, etc.) it is a worthwhile endeavor and Punjabi Sikhs should continue to promote the Punjabi language.
However, Sikhs SHOULD NOT make learning Punjabi the key pursuit in their children learning about Sikhi. They should do exegesis in French, English, Swahili or any language that is most easily understood by their youth.
In the meantime you will be merely responding to me. Re-read the paragraph. I am talking in the future tense. Now continue your diatribe.
------------------
With regards to my statement, by no means was I trying to suggest that immigration to Canada is decreasing at this time.
I wrote that you can see the decrease in Punjabi-language knowledge in THOSE PARTICULAR Canadian families that have been in Canada longer.
Decreasing immigration numbers from Punjab post-9/11 is occurring in the United States. The effects will not be seen for a generation.
Even those that do learn Punjabi language in schools and even in college, I have seen their abilities. In California a few universities teach Punjabi. However, most of the graduates learn to read (although they may not have developed a vocabulary to understand what they are reading), write (little more than basic sentences, not compositions), and speak (about the same as they normally do). Despite the limitations of language instruction (and Punjabi has hardly attained the critical level of language pedagogy as seen in Spanish, English, French, etc.) it is a worthwhile endeavor and Punjabi Sikhs should continue to promote the Punjabi language.
However, Sikhs SHOULD NOT make learning Punjabi the key pursuit in their children learning about Sikhi. They should do exegesis in French, English, Swahili or any language that is most easily understood by their youth.
There is no dearth of immigrants from the Punjab entering Canada. I don’t know on what basis you made that statement. Secondly, in Canada, anyone can learn Punjabi as a second language elective at public schools in British Columbia. Colleges and Universities in British Columbia also teach Punjabi, which is where I learned to read and write the language.
Kaptaan is right there is no shortage of immigrants coming from Canada to Punjab. Almost all of them move to the Toronto or Vancouver area. Alot of the immigrant that come are from the villages of the Punjab and not very educated. Also the sad thing is that some of them are marrying there own cousins or paying somebody money to marry them just get a Canadian passport.
Kaptaan is right there is no shortage of immigrants coming from Canada to Punjab. Almost all of them move to the Toronto or Vancouver area. Alot of the immigrant that come are from the villages of the Punjab and not very educated. Also the sad thing is that some of them are marrying there own cousins or paying somebody money to marry them just get a Canadian passport.
I've noticed on this website and other punjabi/sikh related website the topic of the young people not speaking the language or understanding comes up alot.
Yet there is another issue of the older generation among the new immigrants who can't speak English and have very little understanding of the country they live is not the same as the villages of the Punjab. For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
Yet there is another issue of the older generation among the new immigrants who can't speak English and have very little understanding of the country they live is not the same as the villages of the Punjab. For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
For some reason even bringing up this topic makes alot of people feel uncomfortable.
Perhaps it's not so much discomfort, but annoyance at your incessant need to state immigrants from Punjab are generally uneducated (implying some sort of lower status to them due to their lack of education), and that the elderly are bad citizens for not being able to speak English.
Canada will survive if our elderly do not all learn to speak English.
Morever, your comment that these individuals do not understand that Canada is different than the villages in Punjab, is utterly stupid. Are you sure you're not spending most of your time with the mentally infirm? Outside of the mentally infirm, I've yet to meet a Punjabi immigrant who was mistaking Canada for a village in the Punjab.
I'm guessing your frustration stems primarily from the lack of assimilation of these immigrants. News flash: these immigrants have no obligation to assimilate to some imaginary concept of Canadian culture that you seem to think exists, and have placed on some grand pedestal.
Your comments regarding your own people serve well to reflect what can only be a sad lack of self-esteem. Spend some time with these "uneducated" and non-English speaking elders - you may learn something and maybe even develop a little bit of pride in your own religion, culture and traditions.
Perhaps it's not so much discomfort, but annoyance at your incessant need to state immigrants from Punjab are generally uneducated (implying some sort of lower status to them due to their lack of education), and that the elderly are bad citizens for not being able to speak English.
Canada will survive if our elderly do not all learn to speak English.
Morever, your comment that these individuals do not understand that Canada is different than the villages in Punjab, is utterly stupid. Are you sure you're not spending most of your time with the mentally infirm? Outside of the mentally infirm, I've yet to meet a Punjabi immigrant who was mistaking Canada for a village in the Punjab.
I'm guessing your frustration stems primarily from the lack of assimilation of these immigrants. News flash: these immigrants have no obligation to assimilate to some imaginary concept of Canadian culture that you seem to think exists, and have placed on some grand pedestal.
Your comments regarding your own people serve well to reflect what can only be a sad lack of self-esteem. Spend some time with these "uneducated" and non-English speaking elders - you may learn something and maybe even develop a little bit of pride in your own religion, culture and traditions.
because they add a layer of patriarchal and Abrahamic, Christian vocabulary (Lord?? Master?? Him?? “Command” is so different from “hukam,” … etc).
Yes, this is true. There are many instances where Gurbani is referring to the Abrahamic tradition (kateb, kuran, Azraeel, Adam), and also instances where Gurbani is referring to God in a male metaphor (pitha / baap, pir / kanth). However, that is not a license to use patriarchal or Abrahamic language as a default.
Many times Gurbani refers to non-Islamic metaphors and female metaphors, but they are translated in the Abrahamic Christian or male translation. This is because of the shadow of Imperialism on our translators, who are mostly university educated expatriate Indians trying to normalize their Gurbani experience with the English Orientalist academia. In other words, they try to suck up to the man by changing the meaning of the Word of God.
Yes, this is true. There are many instances where Gurbani is referring to the Abrahamic tradition (kateb, kuran, Azraeel, Adam), and also instances where Gurbani is referring to God in a male metaphor (pitha / baap, pir / kanth). However, that is not a license to use patriarchal or Abrahamic language as a default.
Many times Gurbani refers to non-Islamic metaphors and female metaphors, but they are translated in the Abrahamic Christian or male translation. This is because of the shadow of Imperialism on our translators, who are mostly university educated expatriate Indians trying to normalize their Gurbani experience with the English Orientalist academia. In other words, they try to suck up to the man by changing the meaning of the Word of God.
Kaptaan,
In the meantime you will be merely responding to me. Re-read the paragraph. I am talking in the future tense. Now continue your diatribe.
------------------
With regards to my statement, by no means was I trying to suggest that immigration to Canada is decreasing at this time.
I wrote that you can see the decrease in Punjabi-language knowledge in THOSE PARTICULAR Canadian families that have been in Canada longer.
Decreasing immigration numbers from Punjab post-9/11 is occurring in the United States. The effects will not be seen for a generation.
Even those that do learn Punjabi language in schools and even in college, I have seen their abilities. In California a few universities teach Punjabi. However, most of the graduates learn to read (although they may not have developed a vocabulary to understand what they are reading), write (little more than basic sentences, not compositions), and speak (about the same as they normally do). Despite the limitations of language instruction (and Punjabi has hardly attained the critical level of language pedagogy as seen in Spanish, English, French, etc.) it is a worthwhile endeavor and Punjabi Sikhs should continue to promote the Punjabi language.
However, Sikhs SHOULD NOT make learning Punjabi the key pursuit in their children learning about Sikhi. They should do exegesis in French, English, Swahili or any language that is most easily understood by their youth.
In the meantime you will be merely responding to me. Re-read the paragraph. I am talking in the future tense. Now continue your diatribe.
------------------
With regards to my statement, by no means was I trying to suggest that immigration to Canada is decreasing at this time.
I wrote that you can see the decrease in Punjabi-language knowledge in THOSE PARTICULAR Canadian families that have been in Canada longer.
Decreasing immigration numbers from Punjab post-9/11 is occurring in the United States. The effects will not be seen for a generation.
Even those that do learn Punjabi language in schools and even in college, I have seen their abilities. In California a few universities teach Punjabi. However, most of the graduates learn to read (although they may not have developed a vocabulary to understand what they are reading), write (little more than basic sentences, not compositions), and speak (about the same as they normally do). Despite the limitations of language instruction (and Punjabi has hardly attained the critical level of language pedagogy as seen in Spanish, English, French, etc.) it is a worthwhile endeavor and Punjabi Sikhs should continue to promote the Punjabi language.
However, Sikhs SHOULD NOT make learning Punjabi the key pursuit in their children learning about Sikhi. They should do exegesis in French, English, Swahili or any language that is most easily understood by their youth.
Suki, we've covered language barriers (Punjabi --> English) several times in the past. Please feel free to browse through the archives.
For those who've read works in translation and in the original, it's clear that there's often a huge difference in meaning, context, and interpretation. I think the folks at STTM have done an admirable job in trying to provide a literal translation (albeit clunky at times), but beyond understanding Punjabi, it becomes important to understand the context in which it's used. It's not uncommon for faith traditions to ask their adherents to learn the language of Scripture -- this is true for Jews who participate in the bar/bat mitzvah in reading Hebrew, but perhaps more clear is the experience of Muslims who seek to understand Koranic Arabic. I think the move towards English translation comes from the desire for non-Punjabi speaking Sikhs to understand Gurbani (if you don't understand Punjabi and are just repeating words, isn't this similar to mindless repetition or chanting?). I think a more useful and helpful initiative would be more widespread and focused Punjabi language courses through religious centers. It's difficult because most congregations lack formal instructors, time, support, and attendance to teach more active classes, but I've certainly seen this pop up organically. I think English translations are fine (although not ideal) so long as it's understood that they're not a substitute for learning Punjabi.
For those who've read works in translation and in the original, it's clear that there's often a huge difference in meaning, context, and interpretation. I think the folks at STTM have done an admirable job in trying to provide a literal translation (albeit clunky at times), but beyond understanding Punjabi, it becomes important to understand the context in which it's used. It's not uncommon for faith traditions to ask their adherents to learn the language of Scripture -- this is true for Jews who participate in the bar/bat mitzvah in reading Hebrew, but perhaps more clear is the experience of Muslims who seek to understand Koranic Arabic. I think the move towards English translation comes from the desire for non-Punjabi speaking Sikhs to understand Gurbani (if you don't understand Punjabi and are just repeating words, isn't this similar to mindless repetition or chanting?). I think a more useful and helpful initiative would be more widespread and focused Punjabi language courses through religious centers. It's difficult because most congregations lack formal instructors, time, support, and attendance to teach more active classes, but I've certainly seen this pop up organically. I think English translations are fine (although not ideal) so long as it's understood that they're not a substitute for learning Punjabi.
Suki, we've covered language barriers (Punjabi --> English) several times in the past. Please feel free to browse through the archives.
For those who've read works in translation and in the original, it's clear that there's often a huge difference in meaning, context, and interpretation. I think the folks at STTM have done an admirable job in trying to provide a literal translation (albeit clunky at times), but beyond understanding Punjabi, it becomes important to understand the context in which it's used. It's not uncommon for faith traditions to ask their adherents to learn the language of Scripture -- this is true for Jews who participate in the bar/bat mitzvah in reading Hebrew, but perhaps more clear is the experience of Muslims who seek to understand Koranic Arabic. I think the move towards English translation comes from the desire for non-Punjabi speaking Sikhs to understand Gurbani (if you don't understand Punjabi and are just repeating words, isn't this similar to mindless repetition or chanting?). I think a more useful and helpful initiative would be more widespread and focused Punjabi language courses through religious centers. It's difficult because most congregations lack formal instructors, time, support, and attendance to teach more active classes, but I've certainly seen this pop up organically. I think English translations are fine (although not ideal) so long as it's understood that they're not a substitute for learning Punjabi.
For those who've read works in translation and in the original, it's clear that there's often a huge difference in meaning, context, and interpretation. I think the folks at STTM have done an admirable job in trying to provide a literal translation (albeit clunky at times), but beyond understanding Punjabi, it becomes important to understand the context in which it's used. It's not uncommon for faith traditions to ask their adherents to learn the language of Scripture -- this is true for Jews who participate in the bar/bat mitzvah in reading Hebrew, but perhaps more clear is the experience of Muslims who seek to understand Koranic Arabic. I think the move towards English translation comes from the desire for non-Punjabi speaking Sikhs to understand Gurbani (if you don't understand Punjabi and are just repeating words, isn't this similar to mindless repetition or chanting?). I think a more useful and helpful initiative would be more widespread and focused Punjabi language courses through religious centers. It's difficult because most congregations lack formal instructors, time, support, and attendance to teach more active classes, but I've certainly seen this pop up organically. I think English translations are fine (although not ideal) so long as it's understood that they're not a substitute for learning Punjabi.
[quote comment="3264"]What kind of problems have you found with STTM? Would you care to acquaint us on the issue of opening bhangra schools in Gurudwaras, will this help the Sikh youth? This is suggested in the Fresno bee article by a representative of one of the Gurudwaras there.[/quote]
Har, can you please quote that part of the article? I am having a hard time finding it.
Har, can you please quote that part of the article? I am having a hard time finding it.
Morever, your comment that these individuals do not understand that Canada is different than the villages in Punjab, is utterly stupid. Are you sure you’re not spending most of your time with the mentally infirm? Outside of the mentally infirm, I’ve yet to meet a Punjabi immigrant who was mistaking Canada for a village in the Punjab.
It's good to see P.Singh that any time that you don't agree with anyone that you have to go on a personal attack. There are many in our community who still live with 1950 values in our community when it comes to the treatment of women among other things and stupid things like family honor.
It's good to see P.Singh that any time that you don't agree with anyone that you have to go on a personal attack. There are many in our community who still live with 1950 values in our community when it comes to the treatment of women among other things and stupid things like family honor.
I’m guessing your frustration stems primarily from the lack of assimilation of these immigrants. News flash: these immigrants have no obligation to assimilate to some imaginary concept of Canadian culture that you seem to think exists, and have placed on some grand pedestal.
So these immigrants have no reason to adapt to there new home, and keep there old way of thinking.Funny the same thing is happening in Europe and the backlash has started there over immigrants not intergrated into the culture of there new homeland. And you saying that Canada has no culture is very racist, cause of somebody said that punjab has no culture I have feeling that you would be very upset.
So these immigrants have no reason to adapt to there new home, and keep there old way of thinking.Funny the same thing is happening in Europe and the backlash has started there over immigrants not intergrated into the culture of there new homeland. And you saying that Canada has no culture is very racist, cause of somebody said that punjab has no culture I have feeling that you would be very upset.
Decreasing immigration numbers from Punjab post-9/11 is occurring in the United States. The effects will not be seen for a generation.
On many other south asians websites I have seen stories about how the south asian/ Indo-American population has grown very much this decade. The thing is that United States has a different immigration policy then Canada or England and its a little harder for punjabi immigrants to come to the US then the other 2 countries.
On many other south asians websites I have seen stories about how the south asian/ Indo-American population has grown very much this decade. The thing is that United States has a different immigration policy then Canada or England and its a little harder for punjabi immigrants to come to the US then the other 2 countries.
Suki, we’ve covered language barriers (Punjabi –> English) several times in the past. Please feel free to browse through the archives.
Camille I'm sorry if I'm going offtopic but im my younger days it would drive me crazy when some older punjabi person in the USA/Canada would badmouth my parents for saying they spoke English to me and my siblings and did a bad job as parents. Yet at the same time these people couldn't speak English and if said that people would get mad at me.I also have a daughter and I speak to her English and get I'm just tired of other people telling me to speak to her in Punjabi.
Camille I'm sorry if I'm going offtopic but im my younger days it would drive me crazy when some older punjabi person in the USA/Canada would badmouth my parents for saying they spoke English to me and my siblings and did a bad job as parents. Yet at the same time these people couldn't speak English and if said that people would get mad at me.I also have a daughter and I speak to her English and get I'm just tired of other people telling me to speak to her in Punjabi.
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[quote comment="3438"]Regardless, a nurse or any other professional employed in Surrey should be well-aware of the language issues existing in that area. For a nurse in Surrey to become “very frustrated” because patients could not converse in English, is akin to me opening up a shop in Chinatown and then getting angry because many of the elderly speak only Cantonese or Mandarin.
Working in hostipal is not the same as opening a shop in ethinic part of town. I guess this could be like a punjabi immigrant moving to english speaking country and getting angry that most people don't speak punjabi. [/quote]
I don't agree with your logic. Surrey Memorial Hospital is located in Surrey, which has a huge Punjabi community, and which, as you have agreed, has many individuals who do not speak English. It would be moronic for a doctor or nurse working in Surrey to expect that all of the patients they come across will be able to speak English.
This does not help your argument. The fact remains, in Surrey, a significant number of people do not have the ability to speak English or the ability to speak English with comfort. A hospital in Surrey MUST account for this fact. This is the reason Surrey Memorial Hospital initiated its volunteer interpreter program several years ago.
[quote comment="3439"]Your friend becoming “very frustrated” at the lack of English, paralleled many of the same justifications/excuses spouted by the ‘idiot nurses’ I confronted from time to time, when I was volunteering.
Can you still explain to me why these nurses are idiots[/quote]
Sure, I can explain it to you. Please consider the following:
A. Definition of idiot: a foolish or stupid person; one deficient in common sense.
B. Common sense dictates that a nurse working in Surrey should not be surprised that a large number of patients cannot converse in English.
C. A nurse expecting only English speaking patients in Surrey would be foolish, and deficient in common sense.
D. The nurse in question would be considered an idiot, as per the definition above.
Most nurses at SMH were absolutely amazing. However, when I ran into the odd nurse who acted inappropriately with elderly Punjabis, I had no problems calling her on it, to her face.
To hear more about my courageous adventures, my numerous acts of bravery, and other related feats of strength, you'll have to subscribe to my newsletter.
[quote comment=”3438″]Regardless, a nurse or any other professional employed in Surrey should be well-aware of the language issues existing in that area. For a nurse in Surrey to become “very frustrated” because patients could not converse in English, is akin to me opening up a shop in Chinatown and then getting angry because many of the elderly speak only Cantonese or Mandarin.
Working in hostipal is not the same as opening a shop in ethinic part of town. I guess this could be like a punjabi immigrant moving to english speaking country and getting angry that most people don’t speak punjabi. [/quote]
I don’t agree with your logic. Surrey Memorial Hospital is located in Surrey, which has a huge Punjabi community, and which, as you have agreed, has many individuals who do not speak English. It would be moronic for a doctor or nurse working in Surrey to expect that all of the patients they come across will be able to speak English.
This does not help your argument. The fact remains, in Surrey, a significant number of people do not have the ability to speak English or the ability to speak English with comfort. A hospital in Surrey MUST account for this fact. This is the reason Surrey Memorial Hospital initiated its volunteer interpreter program several years ago.
[quote comment=”3439″]Your friend becoming “very frustrated” at the lack of English, paralleled many of the same justifications/excuses spouted by the ‘idiot nurses’ I confronted from time to time, when I was volunteering.
Can you still explain to me why these nurses are idiots[/quote]
Sure, I can explain it to you. Please consider the following:
A. Definition of idiot: a foolish or stupid person; one deficient in common sense.
B. Common sense dictates that a nurse working in Surrey should not be surprised that a large number of patients cannot converse in English.
C. A nurse expecting only English speaking patients in Surrey would be foolish, and deficient in common sense.
D. The nurse in question would be considered an idiot, as per the definition above.
Most nurses at SMH were absolutely amazing. However, when I ran into the odd nurse who acted inappropriately with elderly Punjabis, I had no problems calling her on it, to her face.
To hear more about my courageous adventures, my numerous acts of bravery, and other related feats of strength, you’ll have to subscribe to my newsletter.
Please note, my use of the term 'idiot' for a few of the nurses I came across at SMH is more generous than the term racist. I don't like throwing the R word out there too loosely, but it was hard to not at least consider it when witnessing the disparity between the courtesy shownto elderly white folk, and thatshown to punjabi speaking elders by some nurses.
Please note, my use of the term ‘idiot’ for a few of the nurses I came across at SMH is more generous than the term racist. I don’t like throwing the R word out there too loosely, but it was hard to not at least consider it when witnessing the disparity between the courtesy shownto elderly white folk, and thatshown to punjabi speaking elders by some nurses.
Suki and P. Singh,
I think the point you guys are discussing- who should carry the burden health care accessibility, in terms of language (patient or provider)- is a complicated matter, without an immediately clear answer.
Since Canada has universal health care, in order for the system to be meaningful, it should be navigable, and the government does have a duty to ensure that people can actually access it. BUT, how far does this duty stretch? Should they provide translation services at every doctor's office for every major immigrant group? And what constitutes a major immigrant group? 15% of the population? 30%?
Even if the nurses are racist, that's still not a reason to demonize them. That isn't going to make them not racist- you have to engage with them, develop language and cultural understanding programs.
Suki- frustration with a language barrier is understandable in that it makes your friend's job more difficult, but with awareness and sensitivity, it's not surprising, considering the demographics of the area where she's working. As a health care worker, awareness and sensitivity are 2 skills that are highly undervalued.
Suki and P. Singh,
I think the point you guys are discussing- who should carry the burden health care accessibility, in terms of language (patient or provider)- is a complicated matter, without an immediately clear answer.
Since Canada has universal health care, in order for the system to be meaningful, it should be navigable, and the government does have a duty to ensure that people can actually access it. BUT, how far does this duty stretch? Should they provide translation services at every doctor’s office for every major immigrant group? And what constitutes a major immigrant group? 15% of the population? 30%?
Even if the nurses are racist, that’s still not a reason to demonize them. That isn’t going to make them not racist- you have to engage with them, develop language and cultural understanding programs.
Suki- frustration with a language barrier is understandable in that it makes your friend’s job more difficult, but with awareness and sensitivity, it’s not surprising, considering the demographics of the area where she’s working. As a health care worker, awareness and sensitivity are 2 skills that are highly undervalued.
Reema –
I think it would be onerous for every doctor's office to provide service in different languages; however, most patients can plan ahead when they are going to visit a doctor and bring along a relative/friend who can translate for them. In a city like Surrey, most elderly Punjabi will simply go to one of the many clinics which have Punjabi speaking doctors and/or staff.
With a hospital, specifically for emergency related visits, patients have very few options as to location and very little time to plan ahead. As such, I think publicly funded hospitals have a responsibility to be able to provide service in any number of languages.
At SMH, for example, while most of the volunteer interpreters were either Punjabi or Cantonese speaking, we had access to a list of volunteer interpreters who spoke other languages as well (Korean, Japanese, German, Spanish etc.). Furthermore, we had access to professional interpretation services, and would call upon them as and when required.
Agreed – demonizing idiots or racists does not make them any less idiotic or racist; however, it's hard to not label them as such when their actions deserve the label. Nevertheless, your suggestions regarding cultural and language education programs is certainly more useful and beneficial than labelling. Cheers.
Reema –
I think it would be onerous for every doctor’s office to provide service in different languages; however, most patients can plan ahead when they are going to visit a doctor and bring along a relative/friend who can translate for them. In a city like Surrey, most elderly Punjabi will simply go to one of the many clinics which have Punjabi speaking doctors and/or staff.
With a hospital, specifically for emergency related visits, patients have very few options as to location and very little time to plan ahead. As such, I think publicly funded hospitals have a responsibility to be able to provide service in any number of languages.
At SMH, for example, while most of the volunteer interpreters were either Punjabi or Cantonese speaking, we had access to a list of volunteer interpreters who spoke other languages as well (Korean, Japanese, German, Spanish etc.). Furthermore, we had access to professional interpretation services, and would call upon them as and when required.
Agreed – demonizing idiots or racists does not make them any less idiotic or racist; however, it’s hard to not label them as such when their actions deserve the label. Nevertheless, your suggestions regarding cultural and language education programs is certainly more useful and beneficial than labelling. Cheers.
Suki, no worries, I was just letting you know that we've delved into language barriers on both ends of the Punjabi-English spectrum
I think Reema's point is interesting, and I think attitudes towards language access differ in Canada. As a Californian (recently of New England), I fully expect health professionals to make translated materials and translators available. I don't expect everyone to be able to translate, but I certainly expect people to try in locations with large "minority" (or in some cases, majority) populations. My grandmother spoke conversational English, but in times of duress Punjabi was always her mother-tongue (or as we jokingly called it, the grandmother-tongue). I know if she was panicked and afraid, she would appreciate having someone explain things for her in Punjabi. This position is certainly different from other countries, in large part because I believe the state has an obligation to ameliorate access barriers to civic participation and to discrete, necessary needs (e.g., health care, emergency services, due process).
I think a great parallel story on translation (albeit in the context of undocumented immigration) via the NYT: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nationa… .
Suki, no worries, I was just letting you know that we’ve delved into language barriers on both ends of the Punjabi-English spectrum
I think Reema’s point is interesting, and I think attitudes towards language access differ in Canada. As a Californian (recently of New England), I fully expect health professionals to make translated materials and translators available. I don’t expect everyone to be able to translate, but I certainly expect people to try in locations with large “minority” (or in some cases, majority) populations. My grandmother spoke conversational English, but in times of duress Punjabi was always her mother-tongue (or as we jokingly called it, the grandmother-tongue). I know if she was panicked and afraid, she would appreciate having someone explain things for her in Punjabi. This position is certainly different from other countries, in large part because I believe the state has an obligation to ameliorate access barriers to civic participation and to discrete, necessary needs (e.g., health care, emergency services, due process).
I think a great parallel story on translation (albeit in the context of undocumented immigration) via the NYT: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20080711IMMIG.pdf?scp=3&sq=arrest%20translator%20abuse&st=cse .
[…] before the problems that we, as Sikh practitioners, experience in understanding Gurbani, due to language barriers. Yet, she bases her research on translations that are subject to the same barriers and […]
[…] of technology, such as SikhToTheMax, to help the youth follow along with the shabads (a phenomenon previously discussed on TLH), but an English transcript of the shabads, however helpful, is no substitute for the […]
I would like to comment on this back and forth regarding language expectations at the Surrey hospital where there is a large number of Punjabi people residing. Last time I checked, Canada had two official languages: English and French. It's my opinion that as an immigrant, you need to be aware of the laws and languages of the land you are residing in. The onus needs to be on the immigrant to communicate their issues in the official languages of the country they are living in. The elderly need to take a son/daughter with them (you know, the ones who sponsored them to Canada) to interpret. It should not be the hospitals responsibility to provide language translation from English/French to a foreign language.
Maybe Canada should just increase the sponsorship fees to help pay for language translation services.
I don't know Spanish. I wouldn't settle in Spain. If I had to live there, I would make the effort to learn Spanish. I wouldn't expect Spain to provide me with a Punjabi translator at their hospital.
I would like to comment on this back and forth regarding language expectations at the Surrey hospital where there is a large number of Punjabi people residing. Last time I checked, Canada had two official languages: English and French. It's my opinion that as an immigrant, you need to be aware of the laws and languages of the land you are residing in. The onus needs to be on the immigrant to communicate their issues in the official languages of the country they are living in. The elderly need to take a son/daughter with them (you know, the ones who sponsored them to Canada) to interpret. It should not be the hospitals responsibility to provide language translation from English/French to a foreign language.
Maybe Canada should just increase the sponsorship fees to help pay for language translation services.
I don't know Spanish. I wouldn't settle in Spain. If I had to live there, I would make the effort to learn Spanish. I wouldn't expect Spain to provide me with a Punjabi translator at their hospital.
Quite amazing allocation!! I enjoyed learning Sikh tradition in translation mentioned views pretty much. IT's truly pleasure to learn some other country tradition details through here. Thanks.