Sikh Family In Texas Victims Of Police Brutality
UPDATE: If you are outraged by this incident, please CALL THE HARRIS COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE (TEXAS) @ (713-755-6044) and let Harris County Sheriff Tommy Thomas know how you feel. These Officers need to be reprimanded and we as a community need to push the Sheriff’s Office to act. You can also contact Houston Mayor Bill White at (832-393-1000) or mayor@cityofhouston.net.
The night before Thanksgiving you are robbed of your sense of security and $15,000 of your home belongings AND THEN you are robbed of your humanity by Sheriff’s Officers who promise to protect you. All this happens in your own home …
The Tagore family in Texas were criminalized and terrorized because of their Sikh articles of faith after calling in to report a burglary in their home.
Ramandeep Singh Tagore says,
“That night we were actually robbed twice … Once by the actual burglars, who we don’t know who they were, and secondly by the Sheriff’s Department, who we knew who they were.”
Once the Sheriff’s Officers had arrived in their home they started focusing on Kawaljeet Kaur’s kirpan and told her: “You can’t wear that”, she felt like she was being treated “ … like a criminal in my own home … “. Kawaljeet Kaur [Ramandeep Singh Tagore’s sister] told the Houston News that “I didn’t appreciate the way that I was treated that day … I’m a human and I would have expected to be treated like a human.” Kawaljeet verbalized her feelings and constitutional right to practice her faith to the Officers. Their response was pushing her out of her house, having her sit in the middle of the street, and handcuffing her.
Ramandeep said to Harpreet Kaur of Sach Productions (watch the video below for more in-depth reporting)
“first we are calm and then the aggression … brutality type of thing … pushing and shoving is starting when the cops get here I mean their acting like thugs … if we are civilizingly dealing with them then why do you have to come push me and shove me when we’re trying to talk to you … is it because I look different or something.”
Manjit Kaur, Ramandeep’s mother, felt: “Dekhoo ik taan saade ghar robbery hoyi hai ..tusi lok saadi help karan aaye aan k saanu arrest karan aaye aan” (Look there has been a robbery in our house … have you people [Sheriff’s Officers] come to help us or arrest us?)
Soon after this conversation with the Sheriff’s officers, Ramandeep, his mother, sister, and cousin are handcuffed.
The officers put Ramandeep and his mother in separate patrol cars and driveaway, while his sister sits in the middle of the street handcuffed and his cousin is standing handcuffed in the middle of the driveway.
One of the things that upset Ramandeep the most is:
“ … I am a young guy, I can take it … I have bruises on my hand because of the handcuff and all that … I can take it … but for them to do that to my sister … to my mother who you know is in her 60s … I mean how far do you want to go … they are coming into our house and terrorizing now and using this kind of language …”
Ultimately, he asks: “What does religion have to do with the burglary that I have called in?”
It seems as though religion had everything to do with it. He remembers one poignant moment when he saw the “face of racism” in its most hurtful and discriminatory form:
“ … I was sitting in the back of the patrol car and there is a cop standing outside of that and I could still hear them and they brought my sister in with handcuffs and they put her on the floor in the middle of the street … one of them asks her did you hear about the bombings in Bombay … wow this is how the mind-process of individuals who are doing this stuff works …”
Police brutality based on racial/religious profiling is unfortunately common police. We know of horrible cases of police profiling Black men. It also happens often with Punjabi and Latino males along with turbaned Sikh men. A lot of these cases happen when they are pulled over when driving. But now we see it happening in Sikhs own homes where mothers and sisters are also being attacked for practicing Sikhi.
A new-blog has been created to document and take action against Police Brutality On Sikhs across the world. Check it out and report incidents of these crimes.
The Sheriff’s Department needs to take action on this issue immediately. An apology would just be the beginning. Honestly, how threatening can a 60-something year old Auntie be to Sheriff’s Officers that they need to handcuff her and put her in a SEPARATE patrol car. It’s not her; it’s their perception of her family’s faith.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9143120838984511550
128 Responses to “Sikh Family In Texas Victims Of Police Brutality”
Harnek,
I don't know if anything happened to the Officers yet.
I do know that there is a push among concerned Sikhs for all of us to "Call The Cops" in Harris County (Texas) tomorrow morning (Monday). You will find below the message that was sent out.
Tim …
… we hope you continue to visit us!
has anything happened to the police officers that were involved in this?
has anything happened to the police officers that were involved in this?
Nice post. Thank you for the info. Keep it up.
Nice post. Thank you for the info. Keep it up.
Harnek,
I don’t know if anything happened to the Officers yet.
I do know that there is a push among concerned Sikhs for all of us to “Call The Cops” in Harris County (Texas) tomorrow morning (Monday). You will find below the message that was sent out.
Tim …
… we hope you continue to visit us!
Nothing has been done to reprimand these officers of their duty. I live in the Houston area and know the Tagore family very well.
As sad as it is to say – we as Sikhs need to come together and call the proper authorities in the Houston area so that justice is served. You can visit http://policebrutalityonsikhs.blogspot.com to get information as to what authorities need to be contacted.
I did get a call back from the Harris County Sheriff-elect, Adrian Garcia about an hour ago. He actually called me directly from his cell phone to apologize and insisted that his new administration will not tolerate behavior like this. Let's see what happens – make sure you take some time out and call!
Nothing has been done to reprimand these officers of their duty. I live in the Houston area and know the Tagore family very well.
As sad as it is to say – we as Sikhs need to come together and call the proper authorities in the Houston area so that justice is served. You can visit http://policebrutalityonsikhs.blogspot.com to get information as to what authorities need to be contacted.
I did get a call back from the Harris County Sheriff-elect, Adrian Garcia about an hour ago. He actually called me directly from his cell phone to apologize and insisted that his new administration will not tolerate behavior like this. Let’s see what happens – make sure you take some time out and call!
I tried calling and it seemed to go full circle. I called the number listed, but finally the person willing to respond was the Police Spokesman listed in the article – Lt. Legg – 713-755-3647. They assured me that the police would look into the matter. I attempted to call the mayor's office and they said that it did not fall within their jurisdiction. However, from the merry-go-round of transferred calls they put me threw, few people in the various departments are even aware of the incident, which seems to indicate that the Sikh response has been fairly tepid.
I tried calling and it seemed to go full circle. I called the number listed, but finally the person willing to respond was the Police Spokesman listed in the article – Lt. Legg – 713-755-3647. They assured me that the police would look into the matter. I attempted to call the mayor’s office and they said that it did not fall within their jurisdiction. However, from the merry-go-round of transferred calls they put me threw, few people in the various departments are even aware of the incident, which seems to indicate that the Sikh response has been fairly tepid.
[Was there really a point to your comment bdb? Deleted……Admin Singh]
[Was there really a point to your comment bdb? Deleted……Admin Singh]
Very distressing. My thoughts are with the Tagore family. Hopefully there will be a meaningful investigation of what occurred with real consequences for any wrongdoing. The more media attention that is given to the issue, the more pressure there will be on the police to conduct a thorough and fair inquiry into this matter, and the more likely it is that the Tagore's grievances will be truly addressed.
Incidentally, I visited the police brutality blog, and noticed something interesting — specifically, Sach Productions' use of the phrase "a leading Sikh media organization." In addition, SALDEF usually leads its press releases with "the oldest and largest Sikh American civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States[.]" Is such boasting really necessary?
Very distressing. My thoughts are with the Tagore family. Hopefully there will be a meaningful investigation of what occurred with real consequences for any wrongdoing. The more media attention that is given to the issue, the more pressure there will be on the police to conduct a thorough and fair inquiry into this matter, and the more likely it is that the Tagore’s grievances will be truly addressed.
Incidentally, I visited the police brutality blog, and noticed something interesting — specifically, Sach Productions’ use of the phrase “a leading Sikh media organization.” In addition, SALDEF usually leads its press releases with “the oldest and largest Sikh American civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States[.]” Is such boasting really necessary?
please educate US policemen and other law enforces ,by pictures and clips, about the difference between arabs/muslims and sikhs
please educate US policemen and other law enforces ,by pictures and clips, about the difference between arabs/muslims and sikhs
please educate US policemen and other law enforces ,by pictures and clips, about the difference between arabs/muslims and sikhs
All peoples of the world are equal
The Guru Granth Sahib promotes the message of equality of all beings and at the same time state that Sikh believers "obtain the supreme status" (SSGS, Page 446). Discrimination of all types is strictly forbidden based on the Sikh tenet Fatherhood of God which states that no one should be reckoned low or high, stating that instead believers should –“reckon the entire mankind as One” (Akal Ustat, 15.85).
Sri Guru Granth Sahib promotes the concept of equality by highlighting the fact that we are made of the same flesh, blood and bone and we have the same light of God with us – Soul . Our building bricks are the same:—-
SGGS Page 272 Full Shabad
The God-conscious being is always unstained, like the sun, which gives its comfort and warmth to all.
The God-conscious being looks upon all alike, like the wind, which blows equally upon the king and the poor beggar
All peoples of the world are equal
The Guru Granth Sahib promotes the message of equality of all beings and at the same time state that Sikh believers "obtain the supreme status" (SSGS, Page 446). Discrimination of all types is strictly forbidden based on the Sikh tenet Fatherhood of God which states that no one should be reckoned low or high, stating that instead believers should –“reckon the entire mankind as One” (Akal Ustat, 15.85).
Sri Guru Granth Sahib promotes the concept of equality by highlighting the fact that we are made of the same flesh, blood and bone and we have the same light of God with us – Soul . Our building bricks are the same:—-
SGGS Page 272 Full Shabad
The God-conscious being is always unstained, like the sun, which gives its comfort and warmth to all.
The God-conscious being looks upon all alike, like the wind, which blows equally upon the king and the poor beggar
At the onset, I was also pained learning what Ramandeep and his family had to face but since I am a Punjabi myself (mona) and naturalized American citizen and now living in Germany, I decided to look in to the matter differently and finally had my own version and the answers to Ramandeep's ill treatment.
Now pay attention to my following points:
a) When Sheriff entered Ramandeep's premises, he found a masked man ( with Ramandeeps 80% face hidden behind his huge Paggadi, turban, and facial hair) greetings him so he asked Raman to furnish his ID. Raman was incensed with this demand as he was mentally still living in India and that too in Punjab where being a Sikh is a way of life. In the eyes of the Sheriff who was on the crime scene it was a hostile scene to start with as he was in Texas and in his country people who looked or wore attire like Ramandeep, were terrorists ( Osama and a Sikh can be easily confused – only, Osama looks sedated and less aggressive). Ramandeep tauntingly asked him if he wanted to stay out or considering coming inside where his ID papers were? This was the beginning of the relationship which got further aggravated when Raman's sister appeared.
b) Kawaljeet Kaur might have been a perfect normal sardarni if she was in Punjab, India but in Texas she was looking like a Muslim suicide bomber armed with a dagger ! Kawaljeet was rebuked immediately by the cop who told her that she couldn't be wearing a dagger to which she retorted that it was her religion she was practicing and she needed that for justice?? Hello???? What Justice? She needed Police help for catching the cop and not brandishing the knife, even when it was holstered, to demand justice? She got in to argument over the issue and refused to relinquish her knife. It became an issue for the cop and when you are in the US the last thing you do is to take on a cop on duty ! Now entered Ramandeep's father and mother wearing their cute Kirpans and to this the office called for a back up by releasing code 20 (officer needs back up call ) and his aides arrived. The whole affair snowballed to landing of Tagores behind bars.
This is a perfect case of Indians who do not let go their idiosyncrasies that are offensive to foreign people and who insist on living their own way of life in the west. Tagores knew very well that Kirpan in the west means a weapon and brandishing in the presence of a cop could be misrepresenting the motives.
I think Ramandeep should fold tents on this issue and make sure he doesn't run in to similar problem ever again and it is the country of that Sheriff for which he has shed blood (Sheriff was a decorated war hero) and Raman still thinks he is dealing with a Jalianwalla baug issue and is busy gathering sympathies.
At the onset, I was also pained learning what Ramandeep and his family had to face but since I am a Punjabi myself (mona) and naturalized American citizen and now living in Germany, I decided to look in to the matter differently and finally had my own version and the answers to Ramandeep's ill treatment.
Now pay attention to my following points:
a) When Sheriff entered Ramandeep's premises, he found a masked man ( with Ramandeeps 80% face hidden behind his huge Paggadi, turban, and facial hair) greetings him so he asked Raman to furnish his ID. Raman was incensed with this demand as he was mentally still living in India and that too in Punjab where being a Sikh is a way of life. In the eyes of the Sheriff who was on the crime scene it was a hostile scene to start with as he was in Texas and in his country people who looked or wore attire like Ramandeep, were terrorists ( Osama and a Sikh can be easily confused – only, Osama looks sedated and less aggressive). Ramandeep tauntingly asked him if he wanted to stay out or considering coming inside where his ID papers were? This was the beginning of the relationship which got further aggravated when Raman's sister appeared.
b) Kawaljeet Kaur might have been a perfect normal sardarni if she was in Punjab, India but in Texas she was looking like a Muslim suicide bomber armed with a dagger ! Kawaljeet was rebuked immediately by the cop who told her that she couldn't be wearing a dagger to which she retorted that it was her religion she was practicing and she needed that for justice?? Hello???? What Justice? She needed Police help for catching the cop and not brandishing the knife, even when it was holstered, to demand justice? She got in to argument over the issue and refused to relinquish her knife. It became an issue for the cop and when you are in the US the last thing you do is to take on a cop on duty ! Now entered Ramandeep's father and mother wearing their cute Kirpans and to this the office called for a back up by releasing code 20 (officer needs back up call ) and his aides arrived. The whole affair snowballed to landing of Tagores behind bars.
This is a perfect case of Indians who do not let go their idiosyncrasies that are offensive to foreign people and who insist on living their own way of life in the west. Tagores knew very well that Kirpan in the west means a weapon and brandishing in the presence of a cop could be misrepresenting the motives.
I think Ramandeep should fold tents on this issue and make sure he doesn't run in to similar problem ever again and it is the country of that Sheriff for which he has shed blood (Sheriff was a decorated war hero) and Raman still thinks he is dealing with a Jalianwalla baug issue and is busy gathering sympathies.
Realisticlly its brahmins and muslims that look alike, in fact brahmins look more muslim than the average middle eastern muslim, although brahmins lack heart.
Muslims have more heart than brahmins and brahmins have never been able to defeat muslims. Since brahmins are very girly, male brahmins time and time again try to make themselves worthy of getting raped in order to avoid sacrificing their life.
As the police start harassing brahmins in the U.S, the brahmins will just get use to being pushed around. It’ll be interesting when it’s a black cop giving them hell. The brahmins will be thinking ‘I’m closer to brahma than you are black man’, and the cop will just shove the brahmins face into cold hard concrete, the brahmin will automatically start acting girly. That’s when the cop will realize he doesn’t have a terrorist muslim in custody but an unholy, fake girly, acting brahmin.
Once the brahmin gets to jail, he will change his name to mata hari. The brahmin will promise that he can be impregnated with a son by the biggest baddest gangster (one in a series of lies that he cant deliver), for this the Brahmin will bet stabbed to death and someone will need a refund on a carton of cigarettes.
Realisticlly its brahmins and muslims that look alike, in fact brahmins look more muslim than the average middle eastern muslim, although brahmins lack heart.
Muslims have more heart than brahmins and brahmins have never been able to defeat muslims. Since brahmins are very girly, male brahmins time and time again try to make themselves worthy of getting raped in order to avoid sacrificing their life.
As the police start harassing brahmins in the U.S, the brahmins will just get use to being pushed around. It’ll be interesting when it’s a black cop giving them hell. The brahmins will be thinking ‘I’m closer to brahma than you are black man’, and the cop will just shove the brahmins face into cold hard concrete, the brahmin will automatically start acting girly. That’s when the cop will realize he doesn’t have a terrorist muslim in custody but an unholy, fake girly, acting brahmin.
Once the brahmin gets to jail, he will change his name to mata hari. The brahmin will promise that he can be impregnated with a son by the biggest baddest gangster (one in a series of lies that he cant deliver), for this the Brahmin will bet stabbed to death and someone will need a refund on a carton of cigarettes.
I think John Voxx's post speaks volumes about how some practicing Sikhs deal with police, and even their fellow Americans. Voxx's post is a reflection of a certain type of immigrant mentality where etiquette, communication and courtesy take a back seat to a sense of self-entitlement.
Here's a hypo: My gori neighbor knocks on my door on Sunday morning. Having woken up 20 mins prior, and polished off a prantha with lassi – I make the decision not to greet her in my kurta pyjama, smelling like alloo wale pranthey, with my joora and dhaari going in all different directions. Needless to say, it will scare the hell out of her and she'll probably never come back. However, some practicing Sikh may see differently and actually open the door in the above described state – (not thinking about the consequences of his behavior). This type of mentality is what Voxx's post alluded to. How the hell does this break barriers of ignorance and bigotry and foster understanding of our Sikh faith to people we interact with on a daily basis? Instead it breeds bad PR, and furthers ignorance.
I think John Voxx's post speaks volumes about how some practicing Sikhs deal with police, and even their fellow Americans. Voxx's post is a reflection of a certain type of immigrant mentality where etiquette, communication and courtesy take a back seat to a sense of self-entitlement.
Here's a hypo: My gori neighbor knocks on my door on Sunday morning. Having woken up 20 mins prior, and polished off a prantha with lassi – I make the decision not to greet her in my kurta pyjama, smelling like alloo wale pranthey, with my joora and dhaari going in all different directions. Needless to say, it will scare the hell out of her and she'll probably never come back. However, some practicing Sikh may see differently and actually open the door in the above described state – (not thinking about the consequences of his behavior). This type of mentality is what Voxx's post alluded to. How the hell does this break barriers of ignorance and bigotry and foster understanding of our Sikh faith to people we interact with on a daily basis? Instead it breeds bad PR, and furthers ignorance.
I'm truly hoping that John is a troll as I just stumbled upon this issue and am absolutely horrified by what is happening to Sardars in the US. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason whatsoever that this family should have any issues practicing their religion and living however they want to live in their OWN HOME. I don't care what your beliefs are. The reality is that these people were minding their own business in their own house and no law enforcement official should be able to ask them any questions about anything that they are wearing unless she was brandishing her kirpan while drooling and shouting. There was no need for this family to be re-victimized.
Furthermore, you talk about "westernization" and learning to speak English. Exactly what part of the Sikh religion mandates that its members not educate themselves…oh wait….NONE! DUH!
If you think that it is OK for human beings to be judged based on their physical appearance then there is no way you are a person of colour and you are probably a neo-Nazi who should go back and post on your own forums as you are definitely not going to recruit any dimwitted, isolated, teenagers here my friend.
I'm truly hoping that John is a troll as I just stumbled upon this issue and am absolutely horrified by what is happening to Sardars in the US. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason whatsoever that this family should have any issues practicing their religion and living however they want to live in their OWN HOME. I don't care what your beliefs are. The reality is that these people were minding their own business in their own house and no law enforcement official should be able to ask them any questions about anything that they are wearing unless she was brandishing her kirpan while drooling and shouting. There was no need for this family to be re-victimized.
Furthermore, you talk about "westernization" and learning to speak English. Exactly what part of the Sikh religion mandates that its members not educate themselves…oh wait….NONE! DUH!
If you think that it is OK for human beings to be judged based on their physical appearance then there is no way you are a person of colour and you are probably a neo-Nazi who should go back and post on your own forums as you are definitely not going to recruit any dimwitted, isolated, teenagers here my friend.
John
America belonged to Red Indians .Did Europeans adopted their ways?
John
America belonged to Red Indians .Did Europeans adopted their ways?
This means that “Waheguru” loves and is merciful to all his childrens :–
Hindus/muslims/chrisitans/Jews/buddhist/Sikhs/Jains/Shias/Sunnis/Catholics/Protestants/Brahmins/Shudra/Blacks/Whites/Browns/Africans/Normans/Slavs/Welsh/jatts/Ramgarhias/Rajputs/Dravadians/bedouins/gorkhas/mongols/celetics/vikings/Normans/red Indians /plants/animals/ bacterias/viruses/fungus/matter/ energy/Vaccum and of course aliens which we shall encounter in future etc etc
This means that “Waheguru” loves and is merciful to all his childrens :–
Hindus/muslims/chrisitans/Jews/buddhist/Sikhs/Jains/Shias/Sunnis/Catholics/Protestants/Brahmins/Shudra/Blacks/Whites/Browns/Africans/Normans/Slavs/Welsh/jatts/Ramgarhias/Rajputs/Dravadians/bedouins/gorkhas/mongols/celetics/vikings/Normans/red Indians /plants/animals/ bacterias/viruses/fungus/matter/ energy/Vaccum and of course aliens which we shall encounter in future etc etc
Punjaban commented above:
"If you think that it is OK for human beings to be judged based on their physical appearance then there is no way you are a person of colour and you are probably a neo-Nazi who should go back and post on your own forums as you are definitely not going to recruit any dimwitted, isolated, teenagers here my friend. "
Don't know what planet ot state you live in – but it's a known reality that "image" is everything in corporate America. Bottom lines are based on those marketing, selling, and branding certain products. Even in the workplace, there are rules aginst beards etc. While it may not be ok for human beings to be judged according to their appearance – in the US, it is fundamental that the aesthetic demeanor of practicing Sikhs be confident, smart, and dignified.
Punjaban commented above:
"If you think that it is OK for human beings to be judged based on their physical appearance then there is no way you are a person of colour and you are probably a neo-Nazi who should go back and post on your own forums as you are definitely not going to recruit any dimwitted, isolated, teenagers here my friend. "
Don't know what planet ot state you live in – but it's a known reality that "image" is everything in corporate America. Bottom lines are based on those marketing, selling, and branding certain products. Even in the workplace, there are rules aginst beards etc. While it may not be ok for human beings to be judged according to their appearance – in the US, it is fundamental that the aesthetic demeanor of practicing Sikhs be confident, smart, and dignified.
Coming back to the original topic of Ramandeep and his sister Kawaljeet – Yesterday I did mention about "Miranda Rights" and this is now a key point in this issue. Nowhere Ramandeep or his family has mentioned that they were not read their Miranda Rights – according to the constitution of America a person being taken in the custody must be informed of the crime for which he is charged and about his right to remain silent and about his right to consult an attorney. Looks like Ramandeep has been read his rights before being handcuffed and the reason being given couldn't have been that he is a Sikh or the way he is dressed up or the way he looks ! They must have been told of the reasons of their arrest – resisting arrest or not assisting in police investigation or threatening an officer on duty or similar charges !
He is conveniently brining his race and religion in front so that he can get maximum support from his community and he also did get that support – Am I right or what? Ramandeep has conveniently masked the charges that were read to him and is telling you the things according to his own reasons as to why he and his family got arrested?
I am sure you will all understand that Tagores are misusing your support by bringing the hatred for the hosts in your mind. Its time he gave the truth out so that he and the Sikh community can heal and move on.
Coming back to the original topic of Ramandeep and his sister Kawaljeet – Yesterday I did mention about "Miranda Rights" and this is now a key point in this issue. Nowhere Ramandeep or his family has mentioned that they were not read their Miranda Rights – according to the constitution of America a person being taken in the custody must be informed of the crime for which he is charged and about his right to remain silent and about his right to consult an attorney. Looks like Ramandeep has been read his rights before being handcuffed and the reason being given couldn't have been that he is a Sikh or the way he is dressed up or the way he looks ! They must have been told of the reasons of their arrest – resisting arrest or not assisting in police investigation or threatening an officer on duty or similar charges !
He is conveniently brining his race and religion in front so that he can get maximum support from his community and he also did get that support – Am I right or what? Ramandeep has conveniently masked the charges that were read to him and is telling you the things according to his own reasons as to why he and his family got arrested?
I am sure you will all understand that Tagores are misusing your support by bringing the hatred for the hosts in your mind. Its time he gave the truth out so that he and the Sikh community can heal and move on.
John Voxx, your comments are pretty lame, and for this the police should read your mother her miranda rights for breaking all sorts of laws, legal and natural. First on that list is for having sex with a bandaar (monkey), then for actually being able to have the baby of a bandaar. Then they should arrest your half rhesus monkey/ half kutha(dog) father, for not registering as a kutha and for running away from the circus without a dog tag. Finally the cops should arrest you for that youga pose you do, where you stick both your big toes up your yayo. But with this economy and lack of jail space for twisted offenders the three of you will be back on the streets in no time, calling attention to yourself.
John Voxx, your comments are pretty lame, and for this the police should read your mother her miranda rights for breaking all sorts of laws, legal and natural. First on that list is for having sex with a bandaar (monkey), then for actually being able to have the baby of a bandaar. Then they should arrest your half rhesus monkey/ half kutha(dog) father, for not registering as a kutha and for running away from the circus without a dog tag. Finally the cops should arrest you for that youga pose you do, where you stick both your big toes up your yayo. But with this economy and lack of jail space for twisted offenders the three of you will be back on the streets in no time, calling attention to yourself.
@ Kraven for a Haven: Thanks for your support and you are right its his mother that needs to get arrested for having sex with bandaar. maybe his sister should get raped too for insulting our religion and our feelings collectively. Blody idiot of first degree.
@ Kraven for a Haven: Thanks for your support and you are right its his mother that needs to get arrested for having sex with bandaar. maybe his sister should get raped too for insulting our religion and our feelings collectively. Blody idiot of first degree.
Dear Readers,
Kraven for a Haven or Kraven the misbehavin has never appeared under this name on this forum but he happens to be someone who does read this thread regularly and does comment regularly under different name/s. My post about Miranda rights is an eye opener for you all here and am sure that you do see this episode differently now. I am sure you all can also guess as to who could have so much of vested interest in this thread that he gets hurt on my posts and analysis and so angry he can get that he mentions my mother and father abusing them and wants them to be arrested exactly on the lines as senior Tagores got arrested ! This poster, Kraven, has no exchange of posts with me or we have ever communicated before but he is damn upset with my Miranda post in particular. Think, WHY?
@ Kraven: No matter what you do or scream, Sikh community will see this case differently and you are deeply upset and very hurt because of this – Cat is out of the bag now. Power of pen has found its worth and the readers can go through the healing process knowing that Tagores may not have been arrested without a valid reason after all !
This forum is all about exchanging ideas on different issues affecting us and all I have done here is given my way of looking at things and have informed the worthy Sikh community as to what could have transacted ?
I haven't insulted anyone here but have stated the facts and if the moderator wipes my posts off then this would affect the quality of fairness "The Langar Hall" wants to maintain as they definitely do not need post-ers like you over here.
Dear Readers,
Kraven for a Haven or Kraven the misbehavin has never appeared under this name on this forum but he happens to be someone who does read this thread regularly and does comment regularly under different name/s. My post about Miranda rights is an eye opener for you all here and am sure that you do see this episode differently now. I am sure you all can also guess as to who could have so much of vested interest in this thread that he gets hurt on my posts and analysis and so angry he can get that he mentions my mother and father abusing them and wants them to be arrested exactly on the lines as senior Tagores got arrested ! This poster, Kraven, has no exchange of posts with me or we have ever communicated before but he is damn upset with my Miranda post in particular. Think, WHY?
@ Kraven: No matter what you do or scream, Sikh community will see this case differently and you are deeply upset and very hurt because of this – Cat is out of the bag now. Power of pen has found its worth and the readers can go through the healing process knowing that Tagores may not have been arrested without a valid reason after all !
This forum is all about exchanging ideas on different issues affecting us and all I have done here is given my way of looking at things and have informed the worthy Sikh community as to what could have transacted ?
I haven't insulted anyone here but have stated the facts and if the moderator wipes my posts off then this would affect the quality of fairness "The Langar Hall" wants to maintain as they definitely do not need post-ers like you over here.
Question: Guess the background of this mysterious Mr. Voxx?
My Guess: Unlike some prediction by fellow posters who think Mr. Voxx is Punjabi, I myself do not think so. He/She is probably a middle aged, scarred, afraid, person working in some sort of academic institution and learning about Sikhism not because of self-interest but rather because of self-protection. You know…If history has wronged you and you plan to wrong others in retaliation and your greedy self-interests, you are bound to be wronged again by history…This will all make sense to old' John if my prediction about who he/she is correct. If my prediction is wrong, simply ignore.
Question: Guess the background of this mysterious Mr. Voxx?
My Guess: Unlike some prediction by fellow posters who think Mr. Voxx is Punjabi, I myself do not think so. He/She is probably a middle aged, scarred, afraid, person working in some sort of academic institution and learning about Sikhism not because of self-interest but rather because of self-protection. You know…If history has wronged you and you plan to wrong others in retaliation and your greedy self-interests, you are bound to be wronged again by history…This will all make sense to old' John if my prediction about who he/she is correct. If my prediction is wrong, simply ignore.
John Voxx, all your posts are based on assumptions — that is why they are so offensive. Here are some assumptions of my own:
1. You are one of the policemen involved in this incident or one of their lawyers (whose been reading up on Sikhs to formulate a defense).
2. You fear that the groundswell of support for your (or your client's) misdeeds will force the authorities to launch an investigation which, if nothing else, will tarnish your (or your client's) service record.
3. To pre-empt this you introduce the red herrings of Ramandeep's assumed behaviour on opening the door and his sister's assumed behaviour on entering the room. At some stage during investigations (court case) you are going to refer to these postings and any lack of rebuttal as evidence that you (or your client) are telling the truth about what happened.
4. You also introduce the red herring of Miranda Rights — for you are not interested in the truth but in testing what will and will not work in front of a jury.
5. You are also testing the arguments that can effectively rebut your creation of a scenario based on assumptions — assumptions which require a degree of factual knowledge not available in media/web reports of this incident.
I think you should accept your mistake (or advise the same to your client, if you are the lawyer) and apologize
John Voxx, all your posts are based on assumptions — that is why they are so offensive. Here are some assumptions of my own:
1. You are one of the policemen involved in this incident or one of their lawyers (whose been reading up on Sikhs to formulate a defense).
2. You fear that the groundswell of support for your (or your client's) misdeeds will force the authorities to launch an investigation which, if nothing else, will tarnish your (or your client's) service record.
3. To pre-empt this you introduce the red herrings of Ramandeep's assumed behaviour on opening the door and his sister's assumed behaviour on entering the room. At some stage during investigations (court case) you are going to refer to these postings and any lack of rebuttal as evidence that you (or your client) are telling the truth about what happened.
4. You also introduce the red herring of Miranda Rights — for you are not interested in the truth but in testing what will and will not work in front of a jury.
5. You are also testing the arguments that can effectively rebut your creation of a scenario based on assumptions — assumptions which require a degree of factual knowledge not available in media/web reports of this incident.
I think you should accept your mistake (or advise the same to your client, if you are the lawyer) and apologize
[My apologies for the grammatical mistakes in the previous posting. Hopefully I have corrected these below :-]
John Voxx, all your posts are based on assumptions — that is why they are so offensive. Here are some assumptions of my own:
1. You are one of the policemen involved in this incident or one of their lawyers (who has been reading up on Sikhs to formulate a defense).
2. You fear that the groundswell of support for the victim of your (or your client's) misdeeds will force the authorities to launch an investigation which, if nothing else, will tarnish your (or your client's) service record.
3. To pre-empt this you introduce the red herrings of Ramandeep's assumed behaviour on opening the door and his sister's assumed behaviour on entering the room. At some stage during investigations (court case) you are going to refer to these postings and any lack of rebuttal as evidence that you (or your client) are telling the truth about what happened.
4. You also introduce the red herring of Miranda Rights — for you are not interested in the truth but in testing what will and will not work in front of a jury. This is important as whether Miranda Rights were read or not will rest on Policemen's word against Tagore Family's word.
5. You are also testing the arguments that can effectively rebut your creation of a scenario based on assumptions — assumptions which require a degree of factual knowledge not available in media/web reports of this incident.
I think you should accept your mistake (or advise the same to your client, if you are the lawyer) and apologize
[My apologies for the grammatical mistakes in the previous posting. Hopefully I have corrected these below :-]
John Voxx, all your posts are based on assumptions — that is why they are so offensive. Here are some assumptions of my own:
1. You are one of the policemen involved in this incident or one of their lawyers (who has been reading up on Sikhs to formulate a defense).
2. You fear that the groundswell of support for the victim of your (or your client's) misdeeds will force the authorities to launch an investigation which, if nothing else, will tarnish your (or your client's) service record.
3. To pre-empt this you introduce the red herrings of Ramandeep's assumed behaviour on opening the door and his sister's assumed behaviour on entering the room. At some stage during investigations (court case) you are going to refer to these postings and any lack of rebuttal as evidence that you (or your client) are telling the truth about what happened.
4. You also introduce the red herring of Miranda Rights — for you are not interested in the truth but in testing what will and will not work in front of a jury. This is important as whether Miranda Rights were read or not will rest on Policemen's word against Tagore Family's word.
5. You are also testing the arguments that can effectively rebut your creation of a scenario based on assumptions — assumptions which require a degree of factual knowledge not available in media/web reports of this incident.
I think you should accept your mistake (or advise the same to your client, if you are the lawyer) and apologize
The Sikh Centre,
Your post is funny and made me laugh out loud. No, I am not a lawyer or a cop but am a blogger from Germany writing on issues of importance and am quite controversial if you read my other blogs.
Please tell me if you have succeeded so far in activating the IA (Internal Affairs) division that investigates on Police corruption or miscarriage of justice? I doubt that very much as nothing has happened besides few Sikhs writing a blog here or one blog there. based on Tagore's crooked testimony.
The way Ramandeep and his family yelled and made hue & cry, even I was shaken up – it looked convincing but then I watched the video many times over and realized that Khushwant Singh's article did make sense after all http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?ne…
and this one http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050827/saturda…
Sikhs are able bodied good looking community and probably the most affluent in India and among the Indians living abroad – Not withstanding is Mona Punjabis, Sindhis & maybe Gujratis. You guys make the most trouble out of nothing and not only drag your own community in trouble waters but also drag the the word "Indian" with it.
Tagores of the past have always brought bad news for the Sikh community by their delinquencies and stupid ego – may it be Komagata Maru incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incide… or Bhagat Singh Thind http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5076/ or Jallianwalla Baug or Caxton hall shooting http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Udham_Singh_-…
My point here is that all we know as to what the plaintiff is alleging and we do not see any defendant here and the only option left to us is assume. Even you are assuming as it gives you the desired answers – by assuming that I could be a cop or a lawyer, you are further getting in to the mess Ramandeep has created. He has brought in ill feelings for the whole Sikh community in his personal mess. He has turned this in to a religious matter and now you guys are with him supporting him just because he happens to wear a "Pug" ?
You all have to live amongst the Whites and here you are planning to mess with them for no fault of theirs? Where do you think this is going to take you? All the incidents I have mentioned above have not ended good for Sikh community and have made them a subject for further persecution and also now this is what is happening.
Miranda Rights is a key issue here as this will let you have the reasons as to why Tagores were ushered to a jail house handcuffed – No way the cops would have told him that " You are being arrested for looking the way you look and practicing the un American religion on the land of Caucasians" – Why is not anyone questioning Ramandeep " Puttar hun bol wee de tu onannu ki kya hei ki tennu fadd ke laigaine" – You guys are presuming that Ramandeep has been picked up the way he looks? Thats how he perceives himself – maybe he is a misfit and gets strange stares wherever he goes (except Gurudwara) and this time he doesn't want to lose the opportunity to get even with the Texan Hillbillies !
In my opinion, as I am neither a Sikh nor a White, when in Rome, do as the Romans do ! Back off now and close this issue and ask Tagores to pack off and leave for a more Sikh friendly country – maybe Canada or Southall UK !
Bottom line ? I do not see any racism here but I suspect Bonnie and Clyde like attitude from Raman and Kawaljeet that has brought all this mess on them.
The Sikh Centre,
Your post is funny and made me laugh out loud. No, I am not a lawyer or a cop but am a blogger from Germany writing on issues of importance and am quite controversial if you read my other blogs.
Please tell me if you have succeeded so far in activating the IA (Internal Affairs) division that investigates on Police corruption or miscarriage of justice? I doubt that very much as nothing has happened besides few Sikhs writing a blog here or one blog there. based on Tagore's crooked testimony.
The way Ramandeep and his family yelled and made hue & cry, even I was shaken up – it looked convincing but then I watched the video many times over and realized that Khushwant Singh's article did make sense after all http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?ne…
and this one http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050827/saturda…
Sikhs are able bodied good looking community and probably the most affluent in India and among the Indians living abroad – Not withstanding is Mona Punjabis, Sindhis & maybe Gujratis. You guys make the most trouble out of nothing and not only drag your own community in trouble waters but also drag the the word "Indian" with it.
Tagores of the past have always brought bad news for the Sikh community by their delinquencies and stupid ego – may it be Komagata Maru incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incide… or Bhagat Singh Thind http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5076/ or Jallianwalla Baug or Caxton hall shooting http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Udham_Singh_-…
My point here is that all we know as to what the plaintiff is alleging and we do not see any defendant here and the only option left to us is assume. Even you are assuming as it gives you the desired answers – by assuming that I could be a cop or a lawyer, you are further getting in to the mess Ramandeep has created. He has brought in ill feelings for the whole Sikh community in his personal mess. He has turned this in to a religious matter and now you guys are with him supporting him just because he happens to wear a "Pug" ?
You all have to live amongst the Whites and here you are planning to mess with them for no fault of theirs? Where do you think this is going to take you? All the incidents I have mentioned above have not ended good for Sikh community and have made them a subject for further persecution and also now this is what is happening.
Miranda Rights is a key issue here as this will let you have the reasons as to why Tagores were ushered to a jail house handcuffed – No way the cops would have told him that " You are being arrested for looking the way you look and practicing the un American religion on the land of Caucasians" – Why is not anyone questioning Ramandeep " Puttar hun bol wee de tu onannu ki kya hei ki tennu fadd ke laigaine" – You guys are presuming that Ramandeep has been picked up the way he looks? Thats how he perceives himself – maybe he is a misfit and gets strange stares wherever he goes (except Gurudwara) and this time he doesn't want to lose the opportunity to get even with the Texan Hillbillies !
In my opinion, as I am neither a Sikh nor a White, when in Rome, do as the Romans do ! Back off now and close this issue and ask Tagores to pack off and leave for a more Sikh friendly country – maybe Canada or Southall UK !
Bottom line ? I do not see any racism here but I suspect Bonnie and Clyde like attitude from Raman and Kawaljeet that has brought all this mess on them.
@ John Voxx,
Now you are showing your true colours …and I find little amusement in it for it smells of the same kind of thinking that resulted in death of six million Jews. I won't be surprised if you are a Punjabi Hindu aligned with RSS who is still trying to shake off the sense of shame at the history of subjugation. That is why you see all instances of assertion of rights by Sikhs (Komagata Maru, Bhagat Singh Thind, Jallianwala Bagh, and numerous others) as something undesirable.
Or are you simply a chameleon who takes on the colour that makes you feel safe?! Lion on the other hand does not need to change colour or shave off his mane to feel safe 😉
@ John Voxx,
Now you are showing your true colours …and I find little amusement in it for it smells of the same kind of thinking that resulted in death of six million Jews. I won't be surprised if you are a Punjabi Hindu aligned with RSS who is still trying to shake off the sense of shame at the history of subjugation. That is why you see all instances of assertion of rights by Sikhs (Komagata Maru, Bhagat Singh Thind, Jallianwala Bagh, and numerous others) as something undesirable.
Or are you simply a chameleon who takes on the colour that makes you feel safe?! Lion on the other hand does not need to change colour or shave off his mane to feel safe 😉
Here is another assumption…you see "being controversial" as something that you were forced to do in order to fit in — something similar to Nirad C Choudhary perhaps! Your assumptions in Tagore family incident are so offensive (as opposed to controversial) because you are more interested in providing a justification to the Policemen involved rather than see how similar incident can be prevented in future. Your logic in fact seems to argue that merely on suspicion cops should be justified to act before asking questions. You of course will justify the shooting to death of the African-American groom and his friends in a New York car park — "for their whole face looked black, as if they were wearing a mask". You my friend are not controversial — just pathetic.
Here is another assumption…you see "being controversial" as something that you were forced to do in order to fit in — something similar to Nirad C Choudhary perhaps! Your assumptions in Tagore family incident are so offensive (as opposed to controversial) because you are more interested in providing a justification to the Policemen involved rather than see how similar incident can be prevented in future. Your logic in fact seems to argue that merely on suspicion cops should be justified to act before asking questions. You of course will justify the shooting to death of the African-American groom and his friends in a New York car park — "for their whole face looked black, as if they were wearing a mask". You my friend are not controversial — just pathetic.
The Sikh Centre,
So, you have one more assumption that I am now a RSS HIndu ! Let me correct you on that one too – I am not. In fact I have even become an atheist and have even distanced myself from Hinduism. There are enough articles on net to prove that I am in fact an anti -RSS man and I have been on record decrying the massacre of Sikhs (I would even term this as Pogrom) in 1984 – So, Pipe down.
Why don't you for a moment see sense in what I am proposing? I am proposing that Ramandeep and Kawaljeet have smart mouthed law officers and have rubbed them in the wrong way. Kawaljeet has even confirmed that she was carrying a Kirpan ( in the eyes of a non Indian who has no idea about these idiosyncrasies it is just like being armed with a weapon that can kill) and officer/s were put off for she refusing to disarm! Its plain and simple – the whole episode has developed from the weapons these people kept at their homes (a La David Koresh of Waco, Texas that shook up the entire nation http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08… ) . If you see the video clip embedded on this thread, fast forward to 03:08/11:19, Ramandeep is no more carrying a Kirpan – he is carrying a fckin Sabre (A Talwar) while enacting to search for a robber at home for Sach productions ! It clearly shows that Macho Tagores were not only in possession of cute Kirpans but very offensive looking sword/s that might have alarmed the cop/s ! You do know by now that cops disn't come to Ramandeep's house uninvited to make a robbery report and they didn't have any other agenda or one cop would't have showed up to meet Raman – he would have been with a force to start with if their agenda was to harass these Sikhs? You are overlooking the visuals here and are blinded by the religious fundamentalism that Ramandeep and Sister were violated for being Sikhs ? Why can't you see them as two belligerent delinquents who were given a reality check by the restrained cops or worst could have ensued – Raman getting shot in his butt or some sort of violent outcome – a la Waco tragedy!
My Mom follows Guru Granth Sahib and we even have the Granth at home with all the required paraphernalia – as a child I have even joined my mother and aunts on "Prabhat feris" before Gurpurab (Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Birthday) so I also know that religion can be followed without making an overt show (or showoff) of it.
The trouble is with you guys is that most of yous do not see yourselves as Human beings and associate your entities with a Lion – many of you even have ferocious expressions of a lion and face hairdos to look like Man lions and speak in a heavy voice and to top it call yourselves as a "Singh" – depicting that you are Lions personified and hence you literally behave like beasts without realizing as to how odd it looks to a person who has not been in to this kind of upbringing ! You subconsciously end up behaving like a beast in order to fit the picture of a lion without realizing that it is not only primitive but has no place in the modern world we live in.
And don't give me this crap of Lion not being able to shave or change color as you are now totally crooked in your perception and are imagining Lion with a Gillette shaving kit resisting to go clean shave – even monkeys do not shave their manes or change colors as we are looking at three different types of life forms here – A Human Being, a Mammal and a Reptile ! I know that there are thousands of Sikhs who have shaved of their beards and cut hair to assimilate or blend in to avoid being a subject of ridicule – many did it in the wake of anti Taliban violence within US and many did it during or after 1984 Sikh Massacres.
If you are so hooked up on looking like a lion then why not wear a lion suit and a tail and walk on four limbs to complete the look of a lion and remove doubts from the mind of the person who looks at you ? I am sure you do not want to get locked up for psychiatric evaluations hence, desist such a temptation ! So, man lion after all is not a lion as he can exercise what is good for him and what not so he will do same things differently depending on circumstances to suit his ass – he is after all not a lion but a Human being.
The Sikh Centre,
So, you have one more assumption that I am now a RSS HIndu ! Let me correct you on that one too – I am not. In fact I have even become an atheist and have even distanced myself from Hinduism. There are enough articles on net to prove that I am in fact an anti -RSS man and I have been on record decrying the massacre of Sikhs (I would even term this as Pogrom) in 1984 – So, Pipe down.
Why don't you for a moment see sense in what I am proposing? I am proposing that Ramandeep and Kawaljeet have smart mouthed law officers and have rubbed them in the wrong way. Kawaljeet has even confirmed that she was carrying a Kirpan ( in the eyes of a non Indian who has no idea about these idiosyncrasies it is just like being armed with a weapon that can kill) and officer/s were put off for she refusing to disarm! Its plain and simple – the whole episode has developed from the weapons these people kept at their homes (a La David Koresh of Waco, Texas that shook up the entire nation http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08… ) . If you see the video clip embedded on this thread, fast forward to 03:08/11:19, Ramandeep is no more carrying a Kirpan – he is carrying a fckin Sabre (A Talwar) while enacting to search for a robber at home for Sach productions ! It clearly shows that Macho Tagores were not only in possession of cute Kirpans but very offensive looking sword/s that might have alarmed the cop/s ! You do know by now that cops disn't come to Ramandeep's house uninvited to make a robbery report and they didn't have any other agenda or one cop would't have showed up to meet Raman – he would have been with a force to start with if their agenda was to harass these Sikhs? You are overlooking the visuals here and are blinded by the religious fundamentalism that Ramandeep and Sister were violated for being Sikhs ? Why can't you see them as two belligerent delinquents who were given a reality check by the restrained cops or worst could have ensued – Raman getting shot in his butt or some sort of violent outcome – a la Waco tragedy!
My Mom follows Guru Granth Sahib and we even have the Granth at home with all the required paraphernalia – as a child I have even joined my mother and aunts on "Prabhat feris" before Gurpurab (Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Birthday) so I also know that religion can be followed without making an overt show (or showoff) of it.
The trouble is with you guys is that most of yous do not see yourselves as Human beings and associate your entities with a Lion – many of you even have ferocious expressions of a lion and face hairdos to look like Man lions and speak in a heavy voice and to top it call yourselves as a "Singh" – depicting that you are Lions personified and hence you literally behave like beasts without realizing as to how odd it looks to a person who has not been in to this kind of upbringing ! You subconsciously end up behaving like a beast in order to fit the picture of a lion without realizing that it is not only primitive but has no place in the modern world we live in.
And don't give me this crap of Lion not being able to shave or change color as you are now totally crooked in your perception and are imagining Lion with a Gillette shaving kit resisting to go clean shave – even monkeys do not shave their manes or change colors as we are looking at three different types of life forms here – A Human Being, a Mammal and a Reptile ! I know that there are thousands of Sikhs who have shaved of their beards and cut hair to assimilate or blend in to avoid being a subject of ridicule – many did it in the wake of anti Taliban violence within US and many did it during or after 1984 Sikh Massacres.
If you are so hooked up on looking like a lion then why not wear a lion suit and a tail and walk on four limbs to complete the look of a lion and remove doubts from the mind of the person who looks at you ? I am sure you do not want to get locked up for psychiatric evaluations hence, desist such a temptation ! So, man lion after all is not a lion as he can exercise what is good for him and what not so he will do same things differently depending on circumstances to suit his ass – he is after all not a lion but a Human being.
The Sikh Centre,
I don't know what Nirad Chaudhary you are talking about as I couldn't find one with relevance on the net. My assumption in Tagore family incident might be offensive to the people who are deluded but it would make perfect sense to a person who has an open mind. You are right that I am providing justifications for the actions of the policemen as I am looking at it from a Birds eyes view without being a part of your closed society which thinks that it is blasphemous to think anything different than being fed by fellow Sikhs. Blacks have been persecuted since their births ( as far as we know in the recorded history) so Afro males getting shot in New York car park can be termed as a sporadic unfortunate incident but not Tagores ! Tagore incident could have been avoided if Tagores took a reality check and concealed their weapons before the cops arrived. A Black man can not conceal his skin color even if he puts a white paint on his face – he will be called a Black man with a paint on is face whereas A Sikh without a weapon will not be called a Sikh with a concealed weapon !
Besides, this happens to be a forum where we all can speak about the subjects concerning us and I am aided by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution that empowers me to do what I am doing here. Tagores are also free and not locked up for being Sikhs and its also because of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
I am sorry to have caused you any unintentional hurt but there were not any other suitable effective ways to deliver my message.
The Sikh Centre,
I don't know what Nirad Chaudhary you are talking about as I couldn't find one with relevance on the net. My assumption in Tagore family incident might be offensive to the people who are deluded but it would make perfect sense to a person who has an open mind. You are right that I am providing justifications for the actions of the policemen as I am looking at it from a Birds eyes view without being a part of your closed society which thinks that it is blasphemous to think anything different than being fed by fellow Sikhs. Blacks have been persecuted since their births ( as far as we know in the recorded history) so Afro males getting shot in New York car park can be termed as a sporadic unfortunate incident but not Tagores ! Tagore incident could have been avoided if Tagores took a reality check and concealed their weapons before the cops arrived. A Black man can not conceal his skin color even if he puts a white paint on his face – he will be called a Black man with a paint on is face whereas A Sikh without a weapon will not be called a Sikh with a concealed weapon !
Besides, this happens to be a forum where we all can speak about the subjects concerning us and I am aided by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution that empowers me to do what I am doing here. Tagores are also free and not locked up for being Sikhs and its also because of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
I am sorry to have caused you any unintentional hurt but there were not any other suitable effective ways to deliver my message.
@John Voxx
Man you are bitter, bitter, bitter … and it saddens me. Try re-reading what you write as if I (or some one else who represents what you hate) wrote it. You might be able to see how you look in the mirror when you are not wearing the glasses of self-hate. You should read Dr Jaideep Singh's following article to know where you took the wrong turn (assuming of course that you are writing truth about your background which keeps changing).
http://www.sikhfoundation.org/2009/sikh-punjabi-l…
I am a little confused by your "exercising First Amendment" in Germany … is there no German law that you could refer to? Or is "Germany" also the place where you stay in your mind?! Your reference to First Amendment in fact provides the perfect argument against your piffle — go to the Second Amendment
Now try to find any cases where the police might have come to a scene of reported robbery (or any other crime), found the residents carrying fire-arms and went on to arrest them.
Take a rest man…and try to disabuse yourself of the notion that you are "controversial"… you are simply losing it. A pity for the whole point was to make the police officers accountable and have the incident probed — you however turned it into a platform to espouse hatred of the practising Sikhs. You are simply reflecting your self-hate onto any target you can get.
I will say it again — take a rest man.
@John Voxx
Man you are bitter, bitter, bitter … and it saddens me. Try re-reading what you write as if I (or some one else who represents what you hate) wrote it. You might be able to see how you look in the mirror when you are not wearing the glasses of self-hate. You should read Dr Jaideep Singh's following article to know where you took the wrong turn (assuming of course that you are writing truth about your background which keeps changing).
http://www.sikhfoundation.org/2009/sikh-punjabi-l…
I am a little confused by your "exercising First Amendment" in Germany … is there no German law that you could refer to? Or is "Germany" also the place where you stay in your mind?! Your reference to First Amendment in fact provides the perfect argument against your piffle — go to the Second Amendment
Now try to find any cases where the police might have come to a scene of reported robbery (or any other crime), found the residents carrying fire-arms and went on to arrest them.
Take a rest man…and try to disabuse yourself of the notion that you are "controversial"… you are simply losing it. A pity for the whole point was to make the police officers accountable and have the incident probed — you however turned it into a platform to espouse hatred of the practising Sikhs. You are simply reflecting your self-hate onto any target you can get.
I will say it again — take a rest man.
The Sikh Centre,
I haven't spoken a lie anywhere. Scroll back on page 1 and refer to my reply to a poster called Punjaban where she called me a Troll. I did explain her of my background. I am an American National as well besides being a German Citizen. I am of the Indian origin. Why are you freaking out? I do not hate anyone its your thinking that is playing tricks on you.
I am writing about an incident about a Sikh family in US and I presumed that Langar Hall is also an American website dealing mainly with issues taking overseas (not India) – so, in here I spoke about my rights pertaining to the cyber territory I am in and also the rights I have as an American citizen – you can not hold anything that I have written as libelous and vexatious. Why would I flash my German rights here with you? All the western democracies have similar laws except when it comes to the capital crime – in US its way different than what we have here in Europe.
Why are you getting exhausted when I am the one who is doing all the writing ? You do not like it, take a rest – do not read my posts.
Accept my concerns and apology for speaking the truth.