SGPC President: “Sikh religion doesn’t permit…jeans”
SGPC Chief Avtar Singh Makkar recently put forth the stunning idea that the Sikh religion doesn’t permit women to wear jeans. Apparently jeans, along with sleeveless shirts, “attract undue attention and distract others.” [link]
The background story:
…authorities in educational institutions run by the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee are … advising girl students wearing jeans or sleeveless shirts to “go home and change”.
Though the gurdwara body does not have any written rule on the matter, its employees in schools and colleges across Punjab insist hip-hugging denims and bare female arms are too provocative and liable to distract male teachers and students. There have been many recent instances at Ludhiana’s highly-sought-after Guru Nanak Engineering College, where women students were turned out of classrooms and told to stay away unless they went home and changed into “more respectable attire”.
SGPC chief Avtar Singh Makkar actually acknowledges the unwritten rule. “We discourage girls from wearing anything other than the usual salwar kameez because Sikh religion doesn’t permit dresses like jeans, pants or other similar wear.” [link]
What’s wrong with his statement? So many things… only one of which is Makkar’s use of the Sikh religion to promote his personal viewpoint and ultimately, the failure in leadership it illustrates.
One Sikh scholar pointed out that jeans didn’t even exist when Sikhism came into being.
“There were no jeans in the times of the Gurus so how could have they have forbidden Sikh women from wearing these?” said the Ludhiana-based Dr Balkar Singh. [link]
In other words, no Sikh text makes any reference to jeans and Makkar completely made up his claim out of thin air and attributed it to Sikhi. As the President of the Sikh Parliament, that is ridiculously problematic for two reasons (at least). First, no political leader should couch personal opinions in authoritative, official statements (even if many do in reality). The distinction between personal opinion and actual authority should remain clear. Luckily, we can all refer to the actual authorities ourselves. Second, even if an SGPC President is a political, not religious leader, he or she is managing religious institutions and should be able to speak competently (at least!) about Sikhi.
Even if you’re not surprised by Makkar’s wrong claim, I do think a collective sigh is warranted here, for the failure of our leadership to produce … well… leadership instead of personal opinions couched in authoritative, factually incorrect statements.
And last but not least- if there’s a problem of “undue attention and distraction,” I think the easier and more gender neutral solution would clearly be to tell the male students to pay attention. In the context of an engineering college where I imagine women are already in the minority and subject to unwelcome attention from their male counterparts, Makkar’s mentality seems quite un-Sikh-like.
113 Responses to “SGPC President: “Sikh religion doesn’t permit…jeans””
Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra's data is only for a specific few number of districts and within a specific time period. All respect to him.
Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra’s data is only for a specific few number of districts and within a specific time period. All respect to him.
Reema,
I see you are offended that we don't agree with your "male=female" motto. But, being offended is a luxury, and you've too hastily jumped aboard the offense-train. In pain of further offending/enraging your moral sensibilities, If you are actually interested in "dialogue", I wonder what you have to say to Bhai Prabhsharanbir Singh's post, who quite handily dismantles this whole "women=men" slogan trumpeting. His post quite informatively shows exactly the limitations of this whole kind of feminist thought process.
–Sincerely, Randeep
Reema,
I see you are offended that we don’t agree with your “male=female” motto. But, being offended is a luxury, and you’ve too hastily jumped aboard the offense-train. In pain of further offending/enraging your moral sensibilities, If you are actually interested in “dialogue”, I wonder what you have to say to Bhai Prabhsharanbir Singh’s post, who quite handily dismantles this whole “women=men” slogan trumpeting. His post quite informatively shows exactly the limitations of this whole kind of feminist thought process.
–Sincerely, Randeep
My fellow Sikhs, please just step back..take a deep breath and let's reflect on the jeans. Surely we have much bigger systemic problems within the Sikh religion than bickering about jeans. The SGPC is within the control of P S Badal and his family; thus the organization has lost the moral authority to be a judge of anything..period. Men/women should be allowed to dress in a manner that is their personal preference as long as it conforms to their personal standards. The Sikh religion in India is slowly being devoured by the hindu faith with the assistance of many Sikhs that have sold their souls ( Badal family is an example. Let us not have our focus diverted by the issue of Jeans..when we have much bigger long term issues to resolve.
Humbly,
A. Singh
here's some further reading on the topic, an excellent argument by harinder singh of the sikh research institute:
http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=775…
My fellow Sikhs, please just step back..take a deep breath and let’s reflect on the jeans. Surely we have much bigger systemic problems within the Sikh religion than bickering about jeans. The SGPC is within the control of P S Badal and his family; thus the organization has lost the moral authority to be a judge of anything..period. Men/women should be allowed to dress in a manner that is their personal preference as long as it conforms to their personal standards. The Sikh religion in India is slowly being devoured by the hindu faith with the assistance of many Sikhs that have sold their souls ( Badal family is an example. Let us not have our focus diverted by the issue of Jeans..when we have much bigger long term issues to resolve.
Humbly,
A. Singh
here’s some further reading on the topic, an excellent argument by harinder singh of the sikh research institute:
http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=775&cat=26
Harinder Singh? Uh-oh, Randeep's "us" isn't going to like that one bit.
Harinder Singh? Uh-oh, Randeep’s “us” isn’t going to like that one bit.
Randeep/Prabsharanbir: These are the assumptions I'm talking about.
I am not offended.
What's being proposed is not an idea of sameness, that "women=men." That is a wrong interpretation of what's been said by various commenters on this thread. Equality does not mean sameness. That's a misinterpretation. The objections people have had to Makkar's actions have to do with issues of choice and power, not women wanting to be the same as men. And acting as if there is even an agreed upon notion of equality is misunderstanding the feminist movement- there are many different (and sometimes competing, contradictory) ideas of what that equality means.
Randeep/Prabsharanbir: These are the assumptions I’m talking about.
I am not offended.
What’s being proposed is not an idea of sameness, that “women=men.” That is a wrong interpretation of what’s been said by various commenters on this thread. Equality does not mean sameness. That’s a misinterpretation. The objections people have had to Makkar’s actions have to do with issues of choice and power, not women wanting to be the same as men. And acting as if there is even an agreed upon notion of equality is misunderstanding the feminist movement- there are many different (and sometimes competing, contradictory) ideas of what that equality means.
Bal or whateverYOURname is, I am not brainwashed by anybody, just possess the clarity of vision to cut through crap. I never stated I supported the Indian govt or repression of the Sikhs (men and women alike). I was on the recieving end of that brutality and so were several family members-so dont preach to me. However, plenty of radical Khalistanis(yes, not all-many well meaning ones were eliminated in 'encounters' etc) were JUST AS BRUTAL, misogynistic, right wing religious freaks. And thats NOT from propaganda-its from DIRECT experience! The govt AND khalistanis made life hell for everyone. THe sari thing-is 100% true-witnessed by my mother at her school. Just cause you never heard of it doesn't mean it didnt happen. The indian govt itself is a massive corrupt regime-I wished not to be ruled by either!
Read my statement-I will repeat in case it didn't penetrate the first time: A democratic,progressive Khalistan is one thing-a fundamentalist, misogynistic and repressive regime another.
Thank GOD "GURU GRANTH SAHIB" is not like some other religious texts.
We enjoy so much of freedom under "Guru Granth Sahibji" that even our leaders are put to embarassment even with their well meaning measuers.
"Guru Granth Sahibji" is truly going to liberate a lot of Mankind .
Bal or whateverYOURname is, I am not brainwashed by anybody, just possess the clarity of vision to cut through crap. I never stated I supported the Indian govt or repression of the Sikhs (men and women alike). I was on the recieving end of that brutality and so were several family members-so dont preach to me. However, plenty of radical Khalistanis(yes, not all-many well meaning ones were eliminated in ‘encounters’ etc) were JUST AS BRUTAL, misogynistic, right wing religious freaks. And thats NOT from propaganda-its from DIRECT experience! The govt AND khalistanis made life hell for everyone. THe sari thing-is 100% true-witnessed by my mother at her school. Just cause you never heard of it doesn’t mean it didnt happen. The indian govt itself is a massive corrupt regime-I wished not to be ruled by either!
Read my statement-I will repeat in case it didn’t penetrate the first time: A democratic,progressive Khalistan is one thing-a fundamentalist, misogynistic and repressive regime another.
Thank GOD “GURU GRANTH SAHIB” is not like some other religious texts.
We enjoy so much of freedom under “Guru Granth Sahibji” that even our leaders are put to embarassment even with their well meaning measuers.
“Guru Granth Sahibji” is truly going to liberate a lot of Mankind .
Thanks for the link sonny. Very informative. Reema you hit it bang on. Relax bangabhartha. Aggressive choice of words. Why do you need to penetrate anyone with your views? We won't have any bad talk of our martyrs.
Thanks for the link sonny. Very informative. Reema you hit it bang on. Relax bangabhartha. Aggressive choice of words. Why do you need to penetrate anyone with your views? We won’t have any bad talk of our martyrs.
When Guru Nanak said, Truth is high, higher still is truthful living, it meant that action was higher than knowing what the right thing to do was.
In this respects, SGPC has not always been a performer, a presence, and often confuse activity with results.
Gurbani states that the world is ultimately false. Truth can only be found within.
Getting caught up in arguing interpretations of interpretations of interpretations in this thread is no different than the SGPC.
I would at least hope we can all see that much!
Justasikh,
For better or worse, some in the panth today make arguing interpretations of interpretations of interpretations their life's work.
When Guru Nanak said, Truth is high, higher still is truthful living, it meant that action was higher than knowing what the right thing to do was.
In this respects, SGPC has not always been a performer, a presence, and often confuse activity with results.
Gurbani states that the world is ultimately false. Truth can only be found within.
Getting caught up in arguing interpretations of interpretations of interpretations in this thread is no different than the SGPC.
I would at least hope we can all see that much!
Justasikh,
For better or worse, some in the panth today make arguing interpretations of interpretations of interpretations their life’s work.
vizio;
With great understanding, comes great peace.
It is debatable that such people forget Gurbani's advice to learn to understand matters with one's heart, spirit and not just the wandering meandering of one's minds.
Less is almost always more. Perhaps the SGPC has a hard time controlling themselves seeing women in Jeans where as others are not as bothered by it.
As we see with the SGPC and in this thread, knowing a just a little about something can be a very dangerous thing. Only when we step back and learn to look at things impartially will truth prevail in our life.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sometimes the silent majority are the ones at fault for letting the tangentically obsessed minorities spin out of control.
Bhul chuk maaf
vizio;
With great understanding, comes great peace.
It is debatable that such people forget Gurbani’s advice to learn to understand matters with one’s heart, spirit and not just the wandering meandering of one’s minds.
Less is almost always more. Perhaps the SGPC has a hard time controlling themselves seeing women in Jeans where as others are not as bothered by it.
As we see with the SGPC and in this thread, knowing a just a little about something can be a very dangerous thing. Only when we step back and learn to look at things impartially will truth prevail in our life.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Sometimes the silent majority are the ones at fault for letting the tangentically obsessed minorities spin out of control.
Bhul chuk maaf
I agree entirely with Prabhsharanbir Singh's post, and I don't think most of the posters here disagree with his suggestion that Sikh women should respect their bodies and dress accordingly. With that said, I do think this article is disappointing because once again, it demonstrates Sikh leaders' inability to inspire.
Instead of offering us a spiritual vision of why modesty is important for Sikh women and how proper attire can actually take us to new spiritual heights, the SGPC resorted to appealing to feudal insecurities about female sexuality ("hip-hugging denims and bare female arms are too provocative and liable to distract male teachers and students"). I don't think this is simply attributable to laziness on the part of the SGPC or brevity of the article writers, but points to a more persistant issue: Sikh leaders' discourse stays in the realm of the psychological or social but rarely offers us a spiritual vision. When it comes to Sikh women's issues, Sikh leaders have never known how to talk about them. Their statements are always awkward and/or offensive, even when they needn't be.
I agree entirely with Prabhsharanbir Singh’s post, and I don’t think most of the posters here disagree with his suggestion that Sikh women should respect their bodies and dress accordingly. With that said, I do think this article is disappointing because once again, it demonstrates Sikh leaders’ inability to inspire.
Instead of offering us a spiritual vision of why modesty is important for Sikh women and how proper attire can actually take us to new spiritual heights, the SGPC resorted to appealing to feudal insecurities about female sexuality (“hip-hugging denims and bare female arms are too provocative and liable to distract male teachers and students”). I don’t think this is simply attributable to laziness on the part of the SGPC or brevity of the article writers, but points to a more persistant issue: Sikh leaders’ discourse stays in the realm of the psychological or social but rarely offers us a spiritual vision. When it comes to Sikh women’s issues, Sikh leaders have never known how to talk about them. Their statements are always awkward and/or offensive, even when they needn’t be.
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[Deleted by Admin] – Thanks, but no thanks, for your very unhelpful comment. As a reminder, here is our comment policy: No profanity, name calling, or discrimination, please – we try to keep The Langar Hall a clean, open, and hate-free zone. We reserve the right to edit or remove inappropriate comments.
Prabhsharanbir Singh,
1. How is Sikh concept of soul-bride(feminine mode) different from the Islamic Sufi concept of soul-bride(feminine mode)?
2. You said all Gurbani is written in feminine mode which is conductive to meeting Akal Purakh. Could you elaborate on how "feminine mode" is conductive and on what criterion you conclude that all Gurbani is written in faminine mode?
Regards,
Prabhsharanbir Singh,
1. How is Sikh concept of soul-bride(feminine mode) different from the Islamic Sufi concept of soul-bride(feminine mode)?
2. You said all Gurbani is written in feminine mode which is conductive to meeting Akal Purakh. Could you elaborate on how “feminine mode” is conductive and on what criterion you conclude that all Gurbani is written in faminine mode?
Regards,
Ok i read all ur views. i m a teenager
the topic isnt so intresting to me.
ok everyone has his/her views.
so i'll just say that clothes doesnt matter. its upto human how long he/she controls his/her mind.
some say small clothes causes rape like stuff i dont agree. bcoz if the rapist wanna rape he will rape even if female is wearing more than one clothes. bcoz the mind is behind the motive. clothes doesnt matter for rape.
moreover some dislike that wearing jeans and all that modern stuff so on this i would say that wear the thing that is comfortable. if u think clother are reason for rape then i think all early men were rapist hahahaah….. think abt it
we should not make symbols about clothes. it doesnt means that sikh cant wear jeans etc.
more over i think if jeans or modern were available at times of our sikh gurus i think some people may be wearing jeans at that time. now this question can be answered by those who lived at those times. currently none is available. hahah…
ya i agree to some point that some of thegirls or women whatever u call not only in sikh religion but also in other weaar modern clothes intentionally to lure boys etc.
its common now a days. even if the girls doent feels comfortable wearing that stuff but she still wears reason to lure boys. i m not commenting on all girls but some girls have this nature.
some girls feel superior when lot of boys roam behind her.
same is the nature of some boys they want more than one girlfriends they feel superior then unfortunately i got none haha…
i too wear jeans but only in which i feel comfortable.
i love turban i love my beard.
proud to be sikh trying to improve.
Ok i read all ur views. i m a teenager
the topic isnt so intresting to me.
ok everyone has his/her views.
so i’ll just say that clothes doesnt matter. its upto human how long he/she controls his/her mind.
some say small clothes causes rape like stuff i dont agree. bcoz if the rapist wanna rape he will rape even if female is wearing more than one clothes. bcoz the mind is behind the motive. clothes doesnt matter for rape.
moreover some dislike that wearing jeans and all that modern stuff so on this i would say that wear the thing that is comfortable. if u think clother are reason for rape then i think all early men were rapist hahahaah….. think abt it
we should not make symbols about clothes. it doesnt means that sikh cant wear jeans etc.
more over i think if jeans or modern were available at times of our sikh gurus i think some people may be wearing jeans at that time. now this question can be answered by those who lived at those times. currently none is available. hahah…
ya i agree to some point that some of thegirls or women whatever u call not only in sikh religion but also in other weaar modern clothes intentionally to lure boys etc.
its common now a days. even if the girls doent feels comfortable wearing that stuff but she still wears reason to lure boys. i m not commenting on all girls but some girls have this nature.
some girls feel superior when lot of boys roam behind her.
same is the nature of some boys they want more than one girlfriends they feel superior then unfortunately i got none haha…
i too wear jeans but only in which i feel comfortable.
i love turban i love my beard.
proud to be sikh trying to improve.
Prabsharanbir Singh's analysis was, as always, extremely insightful. But it led me to the following question: What about wearing a "G-string" chaddi underneath a proper shalwar-kameez? I wonder if this would be acceptable to the SGPC?
The problem is we're going to have to draw the line somewhere, or as a Faith community, we're always going to be limited to these meaningless debates and controversies.
Instead of demoralizing women who wear jeans and pissing people off, Makkhar could have made a blanket comment about "modesty" and supported it with reference to Sikh Scripture. Any rational person would have accepted this viewpoint. In addition, as the head of the SGPC, Makhar should be less concerned with "jeans", and more concerned with bringing the youth back into Sikhi rather then alienating them.
Prabsharanbir Singh’s analysis was, as always, extremely insightful. But it led me to the following question: What about wearing a “G-string” chaddi underneath a proper shalwar-kameez? I wonder if this would be acceptable to the SGPC?
The problem is we’re going to have to draw the line somewhere, or as a Faith community, we’re always going to be limited to these meaningless debates and controversies.
Instead of demoralizing women who wear jeans and pissing people off, Makkhar could have made a blanket comment about “modesty” and supported it with reference to Sikh Scripture. Any rational person would have accepted this viewpoint. In addition, as the head of the SGPC, Makhar should be less concerned with “jeans”, and more concerned with bringing the youth back into Sikhi rather then alienating them.
If our brave sikhs can live with Sundari in jungle with getting distracted by her beauty, why our today's sikh can't control there emotions. Why are we stopping our young generation to be modest.
Why we can't teach them a good culture and ethics. Why we always try to control a women and not ourselves
Sikh Sahib (poster above),
What does wearing jeans have to do with good culture and ethics? Please state ethical violations associated with wearing jeans and/or how they negate Sikh culture? Modesty is definitely a virtue, but please jeans leave alone.
Thanks.
If our brave sikhs can live with Sundari in jungle with getting distracted by her beauty, why our today’s sikh can’t control there emotions. Why are we stopping our young generation to be modest.
Why we can’t teach them a good culture and ethics. Why we always try to control a women and not ourselves
Sikh Sahib (poster above),
What does wearing jeans have to do with good culture and ethics? Please state ethical violations associated with wearing jeans and/or how they negate Sikh culture? Modesty is definitely a virtue, but please jeans leave alone.
Thanks.
[…] Takht, SGPC, Akali Dal, and all the other historic institutions who seem to be tied up in other pressing issues rather than investing in meaningful parchar and programs to bring wavering Sikhs (especially youth) […]
Hello Taliban (SGPC and some Sikh Males!)
Lets drag Sikhi into the medieval ages! Let's blame and whip women for getting rape too since they bought it upon themselves!
In the last 25 years I have seen the status of Sikh men deteriorate from well to do males in Indian society to subservient second class citizens…it only stands to reason that in order to feel like men they have now started to dominate and demoralize women…welcome to the world Sikh niggers!
Since Sikhi preaches gender equality it stands to reason that men in jeans, tight t-shirts and sleeveless attire are distracting to females so they should also wear traditional dress aka Nihang dress whether in Europe, North America or Asia…only way to go!!!!!!!
Hello Taliban (SGPC and some Sikh Males!)
Lets drag Sikhi into the medieval ages! Let's blame and whip women for getting rape too since they bought it upon themselves!
In the last 25 years I have seen the status of Sikh men deteriorate from well to do males in Indian society to subservient second class citizens…it only stands to reason that in order to feel like men they have now started to dominate and demoralize women…welcome to the world Sikh niggers!
Since Sikhi preaches gender equality it stands to reason that men in jeans, tight t-shirts and sleeveless attire are distracting to females so they should also wear traditional dress aka Nihang dress whether in Europe, North America or Asia…only way to go!!!!!!!
nice advice and sharing,I will buy one this fantastic pants for me .thanks
what are these babas talking about, no one is going to listen to them especially if you live in the west outside of punjab.
what are these babas talking about, no one is going to listen to them especially if you live in the west outside of punjab.
Why should women be made responsible and punished for weakness of man, who is weak and sex oriented . The days of mans supermacy or gone so get used to it.
This is horrendous!
Obviously the president did not realize that to truly save the race of man from is to gentrify women entirely. We need to build a Sikh Women's Colony in the Himalayas. There, they shall be fully covered from head to toe in orange and blue Niqabs to save themselves from turning their lucid, eroticized eyes on each other – they just may succumb to lesbianism.
There, they shall be fed only carrots and water. Forced to watch Golden Girls, educated on the habits of classy, educated, self-aware women.
The only time they shall be let out is for the obvious reasons of pro-creation.
Bhraminvad Zindabad!
This is criminalization of sikh institutes.If he starts issuing this type comment what difference it make with taliban.This is such a sad moment
Amrit dhari bhi singh nhi Sikh minority de which nhi name de naal Singh nhi he markshit de vich .me amritdhari ho ke bhi Singh nhi. ESA Sikh minority waale bolde ne. Bolde me amrit dhari honn na koi Singh nhi ban janda.
wahe guruji ka khalsa
wahe guruji ki fathe
mey twade sareya de comments pade i dont know what to say mey amrit dhari hai and i were jeans bus menu inha pata what ever you were it schould cover our body and we schould be comfortable. sikh girls nu jeans pana allowed nhi hai kado tho pata nahi but i heard since childhood that in our religion guruji ne kadi v kisi v halat the boys and girls che koi diffrence nahi kita and that is the best part of our religion jide karke i feel proud to be a sikh but unfortunatly kuch log sirf apde maan bhelan lai kuch bhi bolde hai and apne religion di besti karde hai and one more thing we sikh girls are not at all like muslim girls asi jo hai samne hai pith pichey nahi hai garhey de samne kuch hot and bahar kuch hor. i dont know wheather im right or wrong but srif ina pata hai and barosa hai waheguruji te ki woh kuch v galat nahi karan denge and one more thing rape kisi de kapdeya karke nhi hunda balki karan wale di.mantality karke hunda hai agar kapdeya karke hunda tha chali gadiya nu rukhwake nahi hunda and even kadi goole che search karleo 1mnt old babies naal bhi rape hoye hai woh kede jeans pake c
kuch v agar kisinu bura lagya hou tha bhul chuk maaf.
wahe guruji ka khalsa
wahe guruji ki fathe
I hope we all know punjabi very well and it will be easy to understand the main point.
Mandir, Gurudware, Masjida, ae sab mann nu saadhan vaste jahida he, naa ki mann vikaara naal bharan nu. Vikaara naal te bahar di duniya hi boht he, har pal ae mann bhajda hi he,sonde vele vee nahi rukda. Te je aapa ral mil ke dharmik sthana te thodi samajhdari dikha daiye te kujh vigad nahi jana, sago changa ho jayega. Kattarpana nahi, samajhdari hoyegi.