Punjabi Fathers And Discipline
Recently, I read a 1997 research article in the Journal of Marriage and Family on “Fathering And Acculturation: Immigrant Indian Families With Young Children”, which stated that:
“Older fathers spent less time playing with their child … more educated fathers engaged more in disciplining than other fathers, and that more father-child play occurred when there were fewer children in the home and when the target child was the only child …”.
I was excited to read a study that focused on fathers as parents and not just mothers, particularly in the “Indian” context. Generally when it comes to “Indian” parenting, the focus is on the mothers because they are traditionally viewed as primarily responsible for their children’s day-to-day emotional and social well-being. Fathers in the parenthood are often given little notice, as their duties are usually associted wtih providing financial security.
However, we know parenting is far more complex and nuanced. Gender roles in a family are never quite so separate and distinct. Even though many of our fathers were not involved in our daily predicaments, kept a distance, and focused on making money, they still influenced our emotional and social upbringing through discipline, protection, and/or silence.
I was particularly struck by the preliminary finding that more educated fathers engaged more in disciplining than less formally educated fathers. While the sample pool in the survey may be limited and not characteristic of the general “Indian” father population, it is striking.
[The sample pool consisted of highly educated fathers (averaging 19.4 years of schooling), mean ages 34.5, and working on average 45.9 hours per week in Central and Southeastern Pennsylvania.]
While I was disappointed that yet another research study failed to mention what kind(s) of “Indian” background the fathers’ had, still it presents an opportunity to reflect on how the results may resonate in our community.
Thus, I ask our readers with immigrant Punjabi fathers:
What is his educational level? What was his occupation in the United States when you were a young child (1.5-4.0 years)?
How involved was he in disciplining you as a young child? How about adolescence?
If you feel comfortable sharing, what did this discipline look like?
64 Responses to “Punjabi Fathers And Discipline”
My Parents were immigrants and my father was somewhat educated[ but more western thinking then most punjabi's], and we grow up in area that only had a few other punjabi familes and my parents raised us very western. Growing up in area 98% white may have had an influence on the way my parents raised me, compare to if I had grown up in Vancouver.
But here in Vancouver disciple among immigrants punjabi the ones who are not very educated is a major problem. The boys here are very spoiled and can do anything where the girls are the opposite held to higher standard.
There have been over 110 young punjabi men killed in gang violence since the mid 90's and almost of them 1st generation and from familes not very educated and discipline is a major problem.
My Parents were immigrants and my father was somewhat educated[ but more western thinking then most punjabi’s], and we grow up in area that only had a few other punjabi familes and my parents raised us very western. Growing up in area 98% white may have had an influence on the way my parents raised me, compare to if I had grown up in Vancouver.
But here in Vancouver disciple among immigrants punjabi the ones who are not very educated is a major problem. The boys here are very spoiled and can do anything where the girls are the opposite held to higher standard.
There have been over 110 young punjabi men killed in gang violence since the mid 90’s and almost of them 1st generation and from familes not very educated and discipline is a major problem.
I think the discipline might have to do w/ the fact that educated parent, whether mothers or fathers expect more from you. I mean, if your parents never went to school, they'll just be glad you graduated high school. At least, that's what I've seen from experience. Plus they have other hardships. Many of them work 2 jobs, so they have little time left to attend to their kids.
Suki,
While the the deaths of young punjabi men due to gang violence in the lower mainland is tragic, and could be related to a lack of discipline, I'm not sure how you can say so with such certainty. The same holds true about the education levels in these families. Do you know these things for fact, or are you assuming this is most likely the case?
I have 2nd and 3rd cousins who have died in gang violence who came from families that were not very educated or western thinking. Also I have talked to community leaders like Harbans Kandola who have said this.
Also a couple of years ago there was report done by "The Group of 10" which was done about gangs in the punjabi community and this was one of the key issues. I can email anybody who wants this report.
In the begining of this decade I saw report about Indo-American gangs in the Bay Area of California. The report said that punjabi sikh's made up 25% of the Indo-American population in the Bay Area, but all the Indo-American gang members came from the punjabi community. Is this still a problem down there.
And why do punjabi youth from middle class and some case up class familes go into gangs. Where as other Indian communities like the Parsi, Gurjati, Bengali, and south Indians from places like Kerala are not having the same problems in the west.
I think the discipline might have to do w/ the fact that educated parent, whether mothers or fathers expect more from you. I mean, if your parents never went to school, they’ll just be glad you graduated high school. At least, that’s what I’ve seen from experience. Plus they have other hardships. Many of them work 2 jobs, so they have little time left to attend to their kids.
Suki,
While the the deaths of young punjabi men due to gang violence in the lower mainland is tragic, and could be related to a lack of discipline, I’m not sure how you can say so with such certainty. The same holds true about the education levels in these families. Do you know these things for fact, or are you assuming this is most likely the case?
I have 2nd and 3rd cousins who have died in gang violence who came from families that were not very educated or western thinking. Also I have talked to community leaders like Harbans Kandola who have said this.
Also a couple of years ago there was report done by “The Group of 10” which was done about gangs in the punjabi community and this was one of the key issues. I can email anybody who wants this report.
In the begining of this decade I saw report about Indo-American gangs in the Bay Area of California. The report said that punjabi sikh’s made up 25% of the Indo-American population in the Bay Area, but all the Indo-American gang members came from the punjabi community. Is this still a problem down there.
And why do punjabi youth from middle class and some case up class familes go into gangs. Where as other Indian communities like the Parsi, Gurjati, Bengali, and south Indians from places like Kerala are not having the same problems in the west.
I think that discipline imparted by a Punjabi father depends on whether the child is a male or a female as Suki correctly pointed out. Interesting questions raised.
I think that discipline imparted by a Punjabi father depends on whether the child is a male or a female as Suki correctly pointed out. Interesting questions raised.
Wherever you go on the internet, Suki's observations and conclusions are the same. Whether on Sepia Mutiny's many discussion boards or other websites on the internet, Suki rarely is able to engage in real analysis, only knee-jerk criticism.
So about your statement:
This is simply not true! Malayalee gangs are well-known in New York, especially in the 74th Street and Jackson Heights area. Bengali, or Bangladeshi, depending on your take, are associated with violence in England. Suki, although the world in Vancouver may look Punjabi-specific, there really is a larger world out there.
Dear observer ..
but our punjabi culture is more confrontational compared to rest of Indian ethnic groups though. we are a warrior race after all. i vouch for the difference cuz i am from a jatt sikh family myself but married to a malayalee lady. there is an immense cultural difference between our families: aggressiveness being the biggest point of difference.
cheers
Wherever you go on the internet, Suki’s observations and conclusions are the same. Whether on Sepia Mutiny’s many discussion boards or other websites on the internet, Suki rarely is able to engage in real analysis, only knee-jerk criticism.
So about your statement:
This is simply not true! Malayalee gangs are well-known in New York, especially in the 74th Street and Jackson Heights area. Bengali, or Bangladeshi, depending on your take, are associated with violence in England. Suki, although the world in Vancouver may look Punjabi-specific, there really is a larger world out there.
Dear observer ..
but our punjabi culture is more confrontational compared to rest of Indian ethnic groups though. we are a warrior race after all. i vouch for the difference cuz i am from a jatt sikh family myself but married to a malayalee lady. there is an immense cultural difference between our families: aggressiveness being the biggest point of difference.
cheers
Anonymous,
Sorry to break it to you, but we're not a martial/warrior race.
The martial race theory was crafted by the British and also implied that fighting races were unintelligent.
Let's let the stereotypes rest in peace.
Thanks.
interesting discussion…but do you feel that things would be different if the fathers in these communities had different educational backgrounds? – less educated vs. more.
Thanks for the link, Reema. It was a good read. However, I'd like to point out something that Arun Shourie stated in his book (also mentioned in the link you posted):
Arun Shourie an Indian writer, journalist and politician (former Minister of Communications and Information Technology) refers to the Sikhs as, "having retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities".
We, STILL, as a punjabi race have retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities and it is clearly reflected in how we deal with various situations in our day to day life. For example, this false pride has resulted in a strongly male-chauvinistic society. A society where a woman doesn't have much value. This phenomenon is clearly proved by the fact that the worst sex-ratio in India is in the state of Punjab. Punjabis are fast eliminating their daughters with ratios falling to as low as 700z in most and even 500z in some parts of Punjab. The trend is similar in UK, Canada, and even US for mostly Punjabi-Indians. None of us, however, would want to accept this problem. We are too proud a race, you see.
Sorry, I am digressing.
All of you know better than I do and I'd like to learn from you. Please continue.
Anonymous,
Sorry to break it to you, but we’re not a martial/warrior race.
The martial race theory was crafted by the British and also implied that fighting races were unintelligent.
Let’s let the stereotypes rest in peace.
Thanks.
interesting discussion…but do you feel that things would be different if the fathers in these communities had different educational backgrounds? – less educated vs. more.
This is simply not true! Malayalee gangs are well-known in New York, especially in the 74th Street and Jackson Heights area. Bengali, or Bangladeshi, depending on your take, are associated with violence in England. Suki, although the world in Vancouver may look Punjabi-specific, there really is a larger world out there.
Those gangs are not at the same rate that the punjabi gangs. As for the Bangladeshi gangs, I was talking about gangs who background is from India. Yes I know that there are gangs from Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh. But from India, no community has it more then the Punjabi community.
Wherever you go on the internet, Suki’s observations and conclusions are the same. Whether on Sepia Mutiny’s many discussion boards or other websites on the internet, Suki rarely is able to engage in real analysis, only knee-jerk criticism.
http://www.indocommunity.us/news7.html
We, STILL, as a punjabi race have retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities and it is clearly reflected in how we deal with various situations in our day to day life. For example, this false pride has resulted in a strongly male-chauvinistic society. A society where a woman doesn’t have much value. This phenomenon is clearly proved by the fact that the worst sex-ratio in India is in the state of Punjab. Punjabis are fast eliminating their daughters with ratios falling to as low as 700z in most and even 500z in some parts of Punjab. The trend is similar in UK, Canada, and even US for mostly Punjabi-Indians. None of us, however, would want to accept this problem. We are too proud a race, you see.
Everything RR said is true, about he we value boys more then girls. Here in Vancouver area, there is clinic right across the border in Blaine Washington that is for punjabi's to find out the sex of the baby, so they can find out if they are having a boy or a girl.
Thanks for the link, Reema. It was a good read. However, I’d like to point out something that Arun Shourie stated in his book (also mentioned in the link you posted):
Arun Shourie an Indian writer, journalist and politician (former Minister of Communications and Information Technology) refers to the Sikhs as, “having retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities”.
We, STILL, as a punjabi race have retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities and it is clearly reflected in how we deal with various situations in our day to day life. For example, this false pride has resulted in a strongly male-chauvinistic society. A society where a woman doesn’t have much value. This phenomenon is clearly proved by the fact that the worst sex-ratio in India is in the state of Punjab. Punjabis are fast eliminating their daughters with ratios falling to as low as 700z in most and even 500z in some parts of Punjab. The trend is similar in UK, Canada, and even US for mostly Punjabi-Indians. None of us, however, would want to accept this problem. We are too proud a race, you see.
Sorry, I am digressing.
All of you know better than I do and I’d like to learn from you. Please continue.
Popular Punjabi Culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeCFObAwJrg&fe… (critics of course will deny any intertwining of culture and media … they'd claim that the two are separate entities … sure)
This is the best article I've seen about the problems in Vancouver punjabi gangs. Yet when the article came out the writer was attacked by people in our community for speaking out about this issue.
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/All…
This is simply not true! Malayalee gangs are well-known in New York, especially in the 74th Street and Jackson Heights area. Bengali, or Bangladeshi, depending on your take, are associated with violence in England. Suki, although the world in Vancouver may look Punjabi-specific, there really is a larger world out there.
Those gangs are not at the same rate that the punjabi gangs. As for the Bangladeshi gangs, I was talking about gangs who background is from India. Yes I know that there are gangs from Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh. But from India, no community has it more then the Punjabi community.
Wherever you go on the internet, Suki’s observations and conclusions are the same. Whether on Sepia Mutiny’s many discussion boards or other websites on the internet, Suki rarely is able to engage in real analysis, only knee-jerk criticism.
http://www.indocommunity.us/news7.html
We, STILL, as a punjabi race have retained a false pride in martial temperament and abilities and it is clearly reflected in how we deal with various situations in our day to day life. For example, this false pride has resulted in a strongly male-chauvinistic society. A society where a woman doesn’t have much value. This phenomenon is clearly proved by the fact that the worst sex-ratio in India is in the state of Punjab. Punjabis are fast eliminating their daughters with ratios falling to as low as 700z in most and even 500z in some parts of Punjab. The trend is similar in UK, Canada, and even US for mostly Punjabi-Indians. None of us, however, would want to accept this problem. We are too proud a race, you see.
Everything RR said is true, about he we value boys more then girls. Here in Vancouver area, there is clinic right across the border in Blaine Washington that is for punjabi’s to find out the sex of the baby, so they can find out if they are having a boy or a girl.
Popular Punjabi Culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeCFObAwJrg&feature=related (critics of course will deny any intertwining of culture and media … they’d claim that the two are separate entities … sure)
This is the best article I’ve seen about the problems in Vancouver punjabi gangs. Yet when the article came out the writer was attacked by people in our community for speaking out about this issue.
http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/All+by+Date/14F49F2B8E1307D587256C950077FB82!OpenDocument
Suki wrote:
The article was criticized not for pointing out that violence and gang-related behaviour existed amongst Punjabi youth, but because of the assinine connections made to the Sikh faith, and the author's 'Kim Bolan-esque' reference to the Air India bombing, among other things.
Frankly, I am not surprised you had no issue with the article, given your thoughts on immigrants in general, and Sikhs in particular on the 'Multiculturalism' thread.
Umm, so kids get into gang banging cuz they're not westernized? Gangs are a western phenomena. Starting from prohibition. Funny that people say kids get into gangs cuz their parents aren't educated, well there are plenty of uneducated Punjabis in India, but where are the gangs at? There's a link between poverty and crime, I mean if cocaine is going to cost more than gold, there there's a profit to be made and people will be drawn to it. Being uneducated or gender discrimination, might be part of it, but they don't explain everything.
Also, there's plenty of white collar crime that occurs in the states. But I suppose no one will talk about that cuz those people are educated and they can sweep things under the rug.
I do agree that Punjabi parents need to be more strict on their sons, but I don't think that explains it all. I've known plenty of non-punjabi kids whose parents were pretty strict on them, but they were taken by violence cuz of the environment they lived in. I mean, if you live in a place w/ poverty and crime, then being strict isn't gonna do much. Though, that shouldn't be an excuse.
'Gangs are a western phenomena.'
You must be kidding me. Where do you guys live man? Sorry for being rude if I am. It really amazes me though that people who don't travel can come up with statements as such. Please go backpacking in India and then comment.
Suki, thanks for the article. Fantastic read. I shall blog about it soon.
Hmmm… not sure I agree with that. While I do not place much stock in British 'martial race' theories, I do think Sikh history speaks for itself, and do not think pride in Sikh martial exploits is premised on anything false, but rather firmly grounded in historical fact.
We can go as far back as the Sikhs under Guru Gobind Singh ji fighting the Hindu Hill rajas, and the Mughals. To Bhai Mehtab Singh cutting off Massa's head. To Bhai Bota Singh and Garcha Singh establishing a "Khalsa Tax". To Sikhs being the only ones stepping up to the plate, and rescuing Indian women from foreign invaders when others sat emasculated at home, too scared to fight for their sisters and daughters.
I'm damn proud of that martial history – nothing false about it. Keep in mind, the Sikh religion is very young, and for a large part of its history, Sikhs have been fighting.
Now, looking at it from a theological angle, consider the gift of amrit, and the saint-soldier ideal.
While amrit did indeed have the sweetness of patase, it was stirred with a double-edged sword – why? Was there no wooden ladle for the Guru to use? The double-edged sword was used specifically to imbue the Sikhs with martial spirit.
If there is any doubt, consider the words of the Guru at the amrit sanchar ceremony – "I will make sparrows defeat hawks; I will make lions out of foxes". Is it me, or is there a slight martial undertone to all this?
The command for all Khalsa to be "tyar par tyar" reflects not only spiritual readiness/fitness, but physical readiness as well – that Sikhs should maintain the physical strength and martial training to engage in battle, at any time.
I think Arun's comment falls in the same heap as those folk who make "12'O Clock" jokes about Sardars. The origins of that particular joke are rooted in a history where it was Sikh men who fought and freed the daughters and sisters of Indian men too afraid or unable to fight for them. The joke became a way for these other men to deflect attention from the pitiful, embarrassed state they found themselves in.
In short, I've got a smidgen of pride in the martial temperament which is a gift from my Guru and heck, maybe even the martial abilities and skill my faith encourages – nothing false about it all.
Frankly, I am not surprised you had no issue with the article, given your thoughts on immigrants in general, and Sikhs in particular on the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread.
My parents are sikhs and immigrants.
Suki wrote:
The article was criticized not for pointing out that violence and gang-related behaviour existed amongst Punjabi youth, but because of the assinine connections made to the Sikh faith, and the author’s ‘Kim Bolan-esque’ reference to the Air India bombing, among other things.
Frankly, I am not surprised you had no issue with the article, given your thoughts on immigrants in general, and Sikhs in particular on the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread.
I do agree that Punjabi parents need to be more strict on their sons, but I don’t think that explains it all. I’ve known plenty of non-punjabi kids whose parents were pretty strict on them, but they were taken by violence cuz of the environment they lived in. I mean, if you live in a place w/ poverty and crime, then being strict isn’t gonna do much. Though, that shouldn’t be an excuse.
The thing about punjabi gangs is the kids come from middle and upper class familes which what set them apart from other ethinic groups who come from more poor background.
RR, you wrote:
I think male-chauvinism is a problem in and of itself and it is a stretch to argue pride in martial temperament (false or not) causes male-chauvinism.
That has little relevance to the comments you made in the 'Multiculturalism' thread. I've linked it for your reference.
Umm, so kids get into gang banging cuz they’re not westernized? Gangs are a western phenomena. Starting from prohibition. Funny that people say kids get into gangs cuz their parents aren’t educated, well there are plenty of uneducated Punjabis in India, but where are the gangs at? There’s a link between poverty and crime, I mean if cocaine is going to cost more than gold, there there’s a profit to be made and people will be drawn to it. Being uneducated or gender discrimination, might be part of it, but they don’t explain everything.
Also, there’s plenty of white collar crime that occurs in the states. But I suppose no one will talk about that cuz those people are educated and they can sweep things under the rug.
I do agree that Punjabi parents need to be more strict on their sons, but I don’t think that explains it all. I’ve known plenty of non-punjabi kids whose parents were pretty strict on them, but they were taken by violence cuz of the environment they lived in. I mean, if you live in a place w/ poverty and crime, then being strict isn’t gonna do much. Though, that shouldn’t be an excuse.
‘Gangs are a western phenomena.’
You must be kidding me. Where do you guys live man? Sorry for being rude if I am. It really amazes me though that people who don’t travel can come up with statements as such. Please go backpacking in India and then comment.
Suki, thanks for the article. Fantastic read. I shall blog about it soon.
Hmmm… not sure I agree with that. While I do not place much stock in British ‘martial race’ theories, I do think Sikh history speaks for itself, and do not think pride in Sikh martial exploits is premised on anything false, but rather firmly grounded in historical fact.
We can go as far back as the Sikhs under Guru Gobind Singh ji fighting the Hindu Hill rajas, and the Mughals. To Bhai Mehtab Singh cutting off Massa’s head. To Bhai Bota Singh and Garcha Singh establishing a “Khalsa Tax”. To Sikhs being the only ones stepping up to the plate, and rescuing Indian women from foreign invaders when others sat emasculated at home, too scared to fight for their sisters and daughters.
I’m damn proud of that martial history – nothing false about it. Keep in mind, the Sikh religion is very young, and for a large part of its history, Sikhs have been fighting.
Now, looking at it from a theological angle, consider the gift of amrit, and the saint-soldier ideal.
While amrit did indeed have the sweetness of patase, it was stirred with a double-edged sword – why? Was there no wooden ladle for the Guru to use? The double-edged sword was used specifically to imbue the Sikhs with martial spirit.
If there is any doubt, consider the words of the Guru at the amrit sanchar ceremony – “I will make sparrows defeat hawks; I will make lions out of foxes”. Is it me, or is there a slight martial undertone to all this?
The command for all Khalsa to be “tyar par tyar” reflects not only spiritual readiness/fitness, but physical readiness as well – that Sikhs should maintain the physical strength and martial training to engage in battle, at any time.
I think Arun’s comment falls in the same heap as those folk who make “12’O Clock” jokes about Sardars. The origins of that particular joke are rooted in a history where it was Sikh men who fought and freed the daughters and sisters of Indian men too afraid or unable to fight for them. The joke became a way for these other men to deflect attention from the pitiful, embarrassed state they found themselves in.
In short, I’ve got a smidgen of pride in the martial temperament which is a gift from my Guru and heck, maybe even the martial abilities and skill my faith encourages – nothing false about it all.
Frankly, I am not surprised you had no issue with the article, given your thoughts on immigrants in general, and Sikhs in particular on the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread.
My parents are sikhs and immigrants.
I do agree that Punjabi parents need to be more strict on their sons, but I don’t think that explains it all. I’ve known plenty of non-punjabi kids whose parents were pretty strict on them, but they were taken by violence cuz of the environment they lived in. I mean, if you live in a place w/ poverty and crime, then being strict isn’t gonna do much. Though, that shouldn’t be an excuse.
The thing about punjabi gangs is the kids come from middle and upper class familes which what set them apart from other ethinic groups who come from more poor background.
RR, you wrote:
I think male-chauvinism is a problem in and of itself and it is a stretch to argue pride in martial temperament (false or not) causes male-chauvinism.
That has little relevance to the comments you made in the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread. I’ve linked it for your reference.
[quote comment="1848"]'Gangs are a western phenomena.'
You must be kidding me. Where do you guys live man? Sorry for being rude if I am. It really amazes me though that people who don't travel can come up with statements as such. Please go backpacking in India and then comment.
Suki, thanks for the article. Fantastic read. I shall blog about it soon.[/quote]
For your info, I read that article years ago. I have also taken a number of courses in criminal justice and . So I don't need to go "backpacking" in India to find out. Yes, they have organized crimes in other countries, but the type of gang violence that exists in the states doesn't exist in other countries. Especially not the developed ones. For example, if you compare the gang violence in the US to that of in the Europe, it's drastically different.
Anyways, ur really rude R R.
My apologies, Kprincess, for the rudeness since I didn't mean it to be rude. My comments can be deleted if need be.
There is no reason for me to be pursuing this discussion further. Thank you for your time. I respectfully bow out.
Regards
[quote comment=”1848″]’Gangs are a western phenomena.’
You must be kidding me. Where do you guys live man? Sorry for being rude if I am. It really amazes me though that people who don’t travel can come up with statements as such. Please go backpacking in India and then comment.
Suki, thanks for the article. Fantastic read. I shall blog about it soon.[/quote]
For your info, I read that article years ago. I have also taken a number of courses in criminal justice and . So I don’t need to go “backpacking” in India to find out. Yes, they have organized crimes in other countries, but the type of gang violence that exists in the states doesn’t exist in other countries. Especially not the developed ones. For example, if you compare the gang violence in the US to that of in the Europe, it’s drastically different.
Anyways, ur really rude R R.
My apologies, Kprincess, for the rudeness since I didn’t mean it to be rude. My comments can be deleted if need be.
There is no reason for me to be pursuing this discussion further. Thank you for your time. I respectfully bow out.
Regards
My parents are sikhs and immigrants
That has little relevance to the comments you made in the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread. I’ve linked it for your reference.
If you read my comments, you would see that I want changes to the immigration policy and the type of immigrant that comes into Canada.
There is no reason for me to be pursuing this discussion further. Thank you for your time. I respectfully bow out.
R R you don't need to bow out, as you of alot good things to say.
Especially not the developed ones. For example, if you compare the gang violence in the US to that of in the Europe, it’s drastically different.
There are alot of muslim gangs in countries like England, France and Holland.
My parents are sikhs and immigrants
That has little relevance to the comments you made in the ‘Multiculturalism’ thread. I’ve linked it for your reference.
If you read my comments, you would see that I want changes to the immigration policy and the type of immigrant that comes into Canada.
There is no reason for me to be pursuing this discussion further. Thank you for your time. I respectfully bow out.
R R you don’t need to bow out, as you of alot good things to say.
Especially not the developed ones. For example, if you compare the gang violence in the US to that of in the Europe, it’s drastically different.
There are alot of muslim gangs in countries like England, France and Holland.
R R – I didn't intend for you to leave the discussion. Your comment made it appear as if I'm pulling things out of nowhere, which is not the case. I got my information from class discussions/readings about comparative analysis that had been done between gang violence in US and violence in similarly developed countries.
Also, I've lived in Punjab, and have family there, but I've never known a single male who was in a gang or killed in a gang over there. Suicide, drug overdoses, fighting over land or girls, staged killing by gov't – yeah heard of occurring quite often. Whereas here I've gone to school with a number of individuals who were killed in gang violence.
Most of the gangs here are of Latinos or blacks, however, such similar gangs don't exist in Africa or Latin America. Yes they have organized crime but it's quite different from here. Though such gangs are growing in Latin America because many youngsters from here are being deported to those countries and they carry on those gang activities there.
That's all I have to say. I apologize to the person who posted the blog as this is way off topic.
R R – I didn’t intend for you to leave the discussion. Your comment made it appear as if I’m pulling things out of nowhere, which is not the case. I got my information from class discussions/readings about comparative analysis that had been done between gang violence in US and violence in similarly developed countries.
Also, I’ve lived in Punjab, and have family there, but I’ve never known a single male who was in a gang or killed in a gang over there. Suicide, drug overdoses, fighting over land or girls, staged killing by gov’t – yeah heard of occurring quite often. Whereas here I’ve gone to school with a number of individuals who were killed in gang violence.
Most of the gangs here are of Latinos or blacks, however, such similar gangs don’t exist in Africa or Latin America. Yes they have organized crime but it’s quite different from here. Though such gangs are growing in Latin America because many youngsters from here are being deported to those countries and they carry on those gang activities there.
That’s all I have to say. I apologize to the person who posted the blog as this is way off topic.