“Illegal” Immigration and Entrepreneurship

Posted by Phulkari in News, Politics, Punjabi, USA on 03 6th, 2008 | 16 responses

In this election year, both during the primaries and presidential election campaigns, immigration policy is a hot issue. A lot of the debate on immigration reform centers around illegal immigrants/ion from drivers’ licenses to fences. Furthermore, this debate has created prototypical “illegal” immigrants in the United States as Latinos who are manual laborers on low wages, particularly during an election year when presidential candidates are trying to win the sizeable Latino vote. Therefore, they have created a narrative around “illegal” immigration that continually highlights this one aspect of the issue to the point where immigration reform has become the “Latino Issue” in the general eyes of the public (even though some presidential candidates are addressing some of the nuances). Understandably, Latino manual laborers are by-far the population in the United States most effected by immigration reform policies and need attention paid to their particular circumstances; however, by making it only the “Latino Issue” we are forgetting to address the nuances and complexity of “illegal” immigration in the United States, adding to the politics that continues to divide people of color and immigrants, and giving more ammunition to groups who continue to vilify “illegal” immigrants, particularly Latinos.

John Buchanan of “The Washington Post” recently tried to address some of the nuances of “illegal” immigration by writing,

“Many illegal immigrants in the United States are manual laborers on low wages. But there’s another group that attracts much less attention: entrepreneurs who have set up businesses, created jobs and grown affluent.”

These entrepreneurs come from, for example, India, Mexico, China, Taiwan, Israel and South Africa.

One commentator on SAJA Forum wrote, about a Mexican entrepreneur who owned a chain of over 100 convenience stores in the U.S. southwest that grossed over millions of dollars a year and employed hundreds of people. However,

“Because of illogical flaws in U.S. immigration law, there is no way for this person to become “legal.” He would have to leave the U.S. and be banned from re-entry for 10 years, as the article reports. Under such circumstances, any reasonable person would choose to stay illegally, rather than lose what they have worked hard for. Moreover, even if this man [was] willing to pay $1 million to the best team of immigration lawyers available, and throw in a $10 million bonus to the U.S. government for his “crime” of being here, there is NO provision under existing law that would allow him to stay. He is, indeed, “lost in the shadows.”

“Illegal” South Asians are commonly cited for their contribution to start-ups in Silicon Valley and issues with F-1 Visas, but I would also argue that many are entrepreneurs who have bought convenience stores, gas-stations, real-estate, farming land, and other “small” businesses. I have heard of Punjabi Sikhs, particularly from India, England, and Canada, who as tourists bring with them large amounts of cash that is invested into businesses. These same “illegal” families run the businesses, pay taxes, create jobs, establish families, and are continually plagued by the immigration system. There are also “illegal” immigrants who from day-one worked in manual laborer and are now are investing their earnings into business opportunities. Now tell me how draining is “illegal” immigration on the American economy? The saddest part is, not only as “illegal” immigrants are they vilified, but the country they help boost refuses to provide legal protection from “legal” and “trusted” Americans who screw them over of their investments (the family members and friends, who as “legal” immigrants and citizens are trusted by these entrepreneurs as “legal” owners of their investments in order to pursue the “American Dream” despite the obstacles and risks put in front of them as part of the U.S.’s fight against them). I assume this kind of situation also occurs in other “illegal” immigrant groups.

“There are up to 20,000 illegal immigrants earning upward of $100,000 a year as entrepreneurs, and their existence challenges the stereotype that illegal immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy, according to immigration lawyers and academics.”

Jeff Passel, a lead demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington adds,

“… a significant proportion earn up to $300,000 a year …”

Hence, this entrepreneurial aspect of the “illegal” immigration issue helps counter the opposition’s ridiculous economic-stance that “illegal” immigration at the end-of-the-day is just a drain on the American economy. As Vivek Wadhwa, founder of Relativity Technologies, argues based on a joint study between him and UC Berkeley, “But what about the few hundred thousand that help us boost our competitiveness?”

According to Felipe Korzenny, a professor of marketing and communications at Florida State University, “These people should be treated like heroes not criminals.”

Both Korzenny and Wadhwa’s arguments can be used, as stated by one commentator on the SAJA Forum,

“… pit “rich” illegals against “poor” undocumented folk; this is so reminiscent of the pitting of legal vs. illegal immigrants that was happening during the last round of debates on immigration reform … “who is the better “illegal” immigrants … the poor undocumented manual laborer or the rich entrepreneur”.

I agree with this commentator that their comments are divisive; however, I think the crux of their arguments is very powerful in questioning the overly-simplified and illogical argument that “illegal” immigration is just a drain on the economy and deportation is the solution. As a commentator on SAJA Forum stated,

“Those that are opposed to immigration claim that the illegal workers are taking jobs away from Americans and should thus be deported. The point that Buchanan’s article raises is that there are a sizable number of illegal immigrants that are actually creating jobs. Do we want to deport these people also? If so, what is the justification?”

Fundamentally, to some degree those who vehemently deny the benefits and oppose “illegal” immigration are having their own “economic”-logic being used against them to fight and question their solution.

Also it highlights, as a commentator on SAJA Forum stated,

“The crux of the problem is that immigration policy in the US is broken across the board, period; and all immigrants, legal and illegal, rich and poor should unite and demand fair immigration policy for ALL”.

It’s not just a Latino issue, it’s our issue! We need to further push presidential candidates to address the complexity and nuances of the issue within and across immigration status, class, racial, ethnic, and nationality lines. The overly-simplified and illogical argument by those vilifying “illegal” immigrants is further simplified when presidential candidates make immigration reform into one group’s issue. The complexity and nuances of immigration have to be addressed; continual over-simplification does not lead to effective solutions for anyone!

What are your thoughts?


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16 Responses to ““Illegal” Immigration and Entrepreneurship”

  1. Bettybb says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    It is a complex issue and unfortunately only the pro legal immigrant, rule of law, anti illegal aliens crowd are looking at all the ramifications of our immigration policy.

    PROPOSAL

    1. The Rule of Law must be re established in the USA, in terms of immigration and sanctuary cities; one rule for all, applied equally. The reason we are a great nation is because it is the foundation of our society. Third world countries are crime and corruption ridden because they do not follow it.

    2. The illegal aliens must self deport or be deported. In order to make the rule of law have any meaning, the penalty must be imposed. The States that have recently passed laws penalizing employers for hiring illegals prove that if you take away the jobs, benefits and housing, the illegals will self deport. It is easy.

    What will not be easy is to rid the country of the violent criminals illegal aliens. Ninety two % of the outstanding warrants for murder in LA are for illegal aliens. It is estimated there are at least 1 million violent offenders, which includes 200,000 child molesters. House to house sweeps may be necessary.

    3. Repel Organized Crime: The illegal aliens brought a nice little present with them when they entered the USA, the Mexican Drug Cartel and MS-13 the deadliest gang in the world. According to a law enforcement official on TV a few months back, the Mexican Drug Cartel now controls all of Los Angeles, and, this was repeated several times, this INCLUDES ALL THE LA POLITICANS.

    That is right. Mexican style corruption in the USA. The Cartel has moved across the west, and is working the south and gulf coasts and is moving into the Midwest. It may well take the Marines to get these guys out of our country.

    4. Amend the US Constitution re Anchor Babies: The illegal aliens (actually the Mexican government who produced a video showing its citizens how to use the loophole in the system to have a baby free of charge in the US and get all these benefits too)should be barred from entering the USA again through their anchor baby if they were illegal, and in the USA at the time the child was born.

    Also the Constitution should be amended to delete anchor baby status. At least one parent must be legally in the country.

    5. Seal the border. Build the double fencing initially called for which has now been dropped, and all the vehicle barriers. Dump the virtual fence, which does not work. Station as many Border Patrol and National Guardsmen on the border as it takes to seal it off.

    6. Enforce real penalties for people entering the country illegally. Adopt Mexico's position of 2 years in jail for the first illegal entry and 10 years for the second.

    7. Status verification. Employers should be able to submit the info on their employees to the government and the government should take the decision; yes or a no. It should not be up to the employer to decide. If a business is caught with employees who have not been approved, it loses it license, and the owners go to jail. Therefore the government needs to perfect e verify and create a proper visa, etc tracking system.

    Give Americans the right to check if someone is using their SSN. Believe it or not, we do not have that right. We are expect to sit back and let our credit be ruined, get stuck will illegals bills, and say nothing. Of course if we could check, illlegals would be quickly be iddentifed and deported.

    8. Legal immigration reform.

    a) Do away with family reunification

    b) Establish the principal of the needs of the USA.

    c) Allow only nuclear family to be brought in

    d) like Europe have a commission, run by say the unions, that ensures that if a visa person is being brought in for a job, that American wages are paid and there is no Americans for the job. The H-1B visa abuse has to stop.

    d) guest worker visas should be revised, to limit the time the USA to two, 3-year visas. Family is not allowed to accompany the worker. Two years in jail for overstaying a visa.

    e) continue the present quota system (though the numbers do not change) so that all Americans have an equal chance to have their family and ethnic group come to the USA.

    REALITY

    The argument that business needs cheap labor for our nation to grow has been used time and time again in our history, including those opposed to abolition of slavery and the termination of the Braceros program. Time and time again it has proved to be wrong.

    As ex Senator Eugene McCarthy, one of the architects of the 1976 Immigration Law, has pointed out, it is technology and innovation that creates our economic wealth, not low skilled cheap labor. After the Bracero farm worker guest program was ended, prices did not rise as the naysayers had predicted; instead there was an increased use of mechanization. There is no reason to think the same would not happen again, given Europe's success with robotic use in bringing in crops.

    According to Paul Samuelson, the economist, we must select mostly the best and the brightest to immigrate to the USA. They add more value to the economy then they take out. Then we can have a few low skilled immigrants who traditionally are a net drain on society for at least a generation until their offspring's education level rises to US levels. Other first world nations follow this pattern. Primarily low skilled immigration is the road to financial disaster.

    However, the Neo Con Republicans and the Democratic leadership continue to push amnesty proposals. Why? President Bush opened the southern border to allow a flood of illegal immigrants in order to jump-start his agreement to integrate the US and Mexico in a North American Union with Canada.

    Check Judicial Watch and http://www.stopnorthamericanunion.com websites and read the Bush government document that says that, as Americans will resist North American integration. it has to be done in secret, and implemented by "evolution stealth". You can also read the actual agendas of meetings between USA/Mexico/Canada on infrastructure integration and open borders.

    Read David Brooks', a columnist with New York Times article in December 2007 furious because as he put it " the elite" had a bipartisan agreement for free trade and NAFTA that was raking in the money and Lou Dobbs, the anti illegal immigration advocate, screwed it up. He did not mention that the money goes to the "elite" and ordinary Americans are hung out to dry.

    When President Calderon was here as part of Mexico's $25 million February propaganda effort to convince Americans to throw out the rule of law and grant amnesty, he made it clear that integration was going to occur so Americans better accept the idea.

    All the various amnesty proposals are “evolutionary stealth”. So are our governments actions in stalling on the border Fence, refusing to enforce the employer law against hiring illegals, shifting 1000 ICE agents away from deportation duty, building of the North American Highway, allowing Mexican Trucking into the USA despite a ban by Congress, promoting Spanish as a second language, installing trans border inspection stations in the US, removing 1/2 of the Border Patrol and all of the National Guard from the southern border and on and on.

    The problem is, America is a country of laws, or used to be, and the rule of law states one rule for everyone, applied equally.

    The Pew Hispanic Center says that at least 80% of illegals are Hispanic, and mostly Mexican.

    American immigration law provides quotas to all countries so all Americans have a roughly equal chance to bring in family and race.

    Any amnesty or guest worker program or special visa would give a huge PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT to Hispanics over all other Americans, in both number of people allowed in, and timing of their arrival.

    Bush opened the southern border to promote integration, thereby giving preference in ability to come in illegally to Hispanics, especially Mexicans. The airports were kept shut. And as the numbers show, it worked, the vast majority of illegals are Mexican.

    And all political parties want amnesty so they can be the champions of the new post integration enlarged voting block, therefore they are only giving lip service to immigration enforcement. No other race is being given the opportunity to increase their voting block through massive illegal immigration.

    The US Constitution is quite clear. There are anti discrimination and an equal protection of the law clauses. All Americans must be treated equally and there can be no racial preferences.

    In a nutshell, those pushing for amnesty provisions want to be able to place one group, illegal Hispanics, before all legal immigrants, all legal visa holders, all other legal guest workers, and before family reunification for all other races and ethnic groups.

    That is not the American way.

    There is only one solution with respect to the illegal aliens among us. They must return to their own countries.

    The Politicians are not telling us the cost of their amnesty proposals. As The Heritage Foundation economic report to Congress on the issue spells it out, 2.5 trillion dollars in unfounded entitlements, our representatives are just hiding the ball. How many Americans would support amnesty if it meant their taxes were to triple.. or more,, starting right now?

    We can give them immunity for their illegal entry to the country, tax evasion, and even welfare fraud if applicable. But they cannot be given immunity when others have been harmed by their criminal conduct. ID theft can destroy an American's life for many years. It is estimated that 7 million Americans have been victimized, with a large increase in the use of minor’s ID by illegals as it takes longer before it is discovered. Of course DUI's, document fraud, and violent criminal behavior cannot be forgiven and other serious felonies cannot be forgiven.

    The States that have recently re-instituted the rule of law and are now penalizing employers and landlords who hire/rent to illegal aliens, have proven that if we enforce our laws, the illegal aliens will self deport. It really is that simple.

    Of course, that will put a crimp into the “secret” North American integration plan, and will distress the Free Trade Cabal wanting large profits for the few, but this country still belongs to Americans, not to the politicians, not to big business, not the media. If there is to be a union with Canada and Mexico, it must be structured to benefit all Americans, and can only occur with a treaty ratification by Congress and American citizen’s consent each step of the way. It’s time to make “evolution stealth” a footnote in history.

    If we don’t, we risk losing our language, our culture and our nation.

    All that will remain to be done is to ask the last person in the country we once called American, to lower the flag one last time.

    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/...
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispani... http://www.youtube.com/watch... NAFTA SUPER HIGHWAY & look at the report on real ID PSA
    http://thenewamerican.com/node/7152

  2. Bettybb says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    It is a complex issue and unfortunately only the pro legal immigrant, rule of law, anti illegal aliens crowd are looking at all the ramifications of our immigration policy.

    PROPOSAL

    1. The Rule of Law must be re established in the USA, in terms of immigration and sanctuary cities; one rule for all, applied equally. The reason we are a great nation is because it is the foundation of our society. Third world countries are crime and corruption ridden because they do not follow it.

    2. The illegal aliens must self deport or be deported. In order to make the rule of law have any meaning, the penalty must be imposed. The States that have recently passed laws penalizing employers for hiring illegals prove that if you take away the jobs, benefits and housing, the illegals will self deport. It is easy.

    What will not be easy is to rid the country of the violent criminals illegal aliens. Ninety two % of the outstanding warrants for murder in LA are for illegal aliens. It is estimated there are at least 1 million violent offenders, which includes 200,000 child molesters. House to house sweeps may be necessary.

    3. Repel Organized Crime: The illegal aliens brought a nice little present with them when they entered the USA, the Mexican Drug Cartel and MS-13 the deadliest gang in the world. According to a law enforcement official on TV a few months back, the Mexican Drug Cartel now controls all of Los Angeles, and, this was repeated several times, this INCLUDES ALL THE LA POLITICANS.

    That is right. Mexican style corruption in the USA. The Cartel has moved across the west, and is working the south and gulf coasts and is moving into the Midwest. It may well take the Marines to get these guys out of our country.

    4. Amend the US Constitution re Anchor Babies: The illegal aliens (actually the Mexican government who produced a video showing its citizens how to use the loophole in the system to have a baby free of charge in the US and get all these benefits too)should be barred from entering the USA again through their anchor baby if they were illegal, and in the USA at the time the child was born.

    Also the Constitution should be amended to delete anchor baby status. At least one parent must be legally in the country.

    5. Seal the border. Build the double fencing initially called for which has now been dropped, and all the vehicle barriers. Dump the virtual fence, which does not work. Station as many Border Patrol and National Guardsmen on the border as it takes to seal it off.

    6. Enforce real penalties for people entering the country illegally. Adopt Mexico’s position of 2 years in jail for the first illegal entry and 10 years for the second.

    7. Status verification. Employers should be able to submit the info on their employees to the government and the government should take the decision; yes or a no. It should not be up to the employer to decide. If a business is caught with employees who have not been approved, it loses it license, and the owners go to jail. Therefore the government needs to perfect e verify and create a proper visa, etc tracking system.

    Give Americans the right to check if someone is using their SSN. Believe it or not, we do not have that right. We are expect to sit back and let our credit be ruined, get stuck will illegals bills, and say nothing. Of course if we could check, illlegals would be quickly be iddentifed and deported.

    8. Legal immigration reform.
    a) Do away with family reunification
    b) Establish the principal of the needs of the USA.
    c) Allow only nuclear family to be brought in
    d) like Europe have a commission, run by say the unions, that ensures that if a visa person is being brought in for a job, that American wages are paid and there is no Americans for the job. The H-1B visa abuse has to stop.
    d) guest worker visas should be revised, to limit the time the USA to two, 3-year visas. Family is not allowed to accompany the worker. Two years in jail for overstaying a visa.
    e) continue the present quota system (though the numbers do not change) so that all Americans have an equal chance to have their family and ethnic group come to the USA.

    REALITY

    The argument that business needs cheap labor for our nation to grow has been used time and time again in our history, including those opposed to abolition of slavery and the termination of the Braceros program. Time and time again it has proved to be wrong.

    As ex Senator Eugene McCarthy, one of the architects of the 1976 Immigration Law, has pointed out, it is technology and innovation that creates our economic wealth, not low skilled cheap labor. After the Bracero farm worker guest program was ended, prices did not rise as the naysayers had predicted; instead there was an increased use of mechanization. There is no reason to think the same would not happen again, given Europe’s success with robotic use in bringing in crops.

    According to Paul Samuelson, the economist, we must select mostly the best and the brightest to immigrate to the USA. They add more value to the economy then they take out. Then we can have a few low skilled immigrants who traditionally are a net drain on society for at least a generation until their offspring’s education level rises to US levels. Other first world nations follow this pattern. Primarily low skilled immigration is the road to financial disaster.

    However, the Neo Con Republicans and the Democratic leadership continue to push amnesty proposals. Why? President Bush opened the southern border to allow a flood of illegal immigrants in order to jump-start his agreement to integrate the US and Mexico in a North American Union with Canada.

    Check Judicial Watch and http://www.stopnorthamericanunion.com websites and read the Bush government document that says that, as Americans will resist North American integration. it has to be done in secret, and implemented by “evolution stealth”. You can also read the actual agendas of meetings between USA/Mexico/Canada on infrastructure integration and open borders.

    Read David Brooks’, a columnist with New York Times article in December 2007 furious because as he put it ” the elite” had a bipartisan agreement for free trade and NAFTA that was raking in the money and Lou Dobbs, the anti illegal immigration advocate, screwed it up. He did not mention that the money goes to the “elite” and ordinary Americans are hung out to dry.

    When President Calderon was here as part of Mexico’s $25 million February propaganda effort to convince Americans to throw out the rule of law and grant amnesty, he made it clear that integration was going to occur so Americans better accept the idea.

    All the various amnesty proposals are “evolutionary stealth”. So are our governments actions in stalling on the border Fence, refusing to enforce the employer law against hiring illegals, shifting 1000 ICE agents away from deportation duty, building of the North American Highway, allowing Mexican Trucking into the USA despite a ban by Congress, promoting Spanish as a second language, installing trans border inspection stations in the US, removing 1/2 of the Border Patrol and all of the National Guard from the southern border and on and on.

    The problem is, America is a country of laws, or used to be, and the rule of law states one rule for everyone, applied equally.

    The Pew Hispanic Center says that at least 80% of illegals are Hispanic, and mostly Mexican.

    American immigration law provides quotas to all countries so all Americans have a roughly equal chance to bring in family and race.

    Any amnesty or guest worker program or special visa would give a huge PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT to Hispanics over all other Americans, in both number of people allowed in, and timing of their arrival.

    Bush opened the southern border to promote integration, thereby giving preference in ability to come in illegally to Hispanics, especially Mexicans. The airports were kept shut. And as the numbers show, it worked, the vast majority of illegals are Mexican.

    And all political parties want amnesty so they can be the champions of the new post integration enlarged voting block, therefore they are only giving lip service to immigration enforcement. No other race is being given the opportunity to increase their voting block through massive illegal immigration.

    The US Constitution is quite clear. There are anti discrimination and an equal protection of the law clauses. All Americans must be treated equally and there can be no racial preferences.

    In a nutshell, those pushing for amnesty provisions want to be able to place one group, illegal Hispanics, before all legal immigrants, all legal visa holders, all other legal guest workers, and before family reunification for all other races and ethnic groups.

    That is not the American way.

    There is only one solution with respect to the illegal aliens among us. They must return to their own countries.

    The Politicians are not telling us the cost of their amnesty proposals. As The Heritage Foundation economic report to Congress on the issue spells it out, 2.5 trillion dollars in unfounded entitlements, our representatives are just hiding the ball. How many Americans would support amnesty if it meant their taxes were to triple.. or more,, starting right now?

    We can give them immunity for their illegal entry to the country, tax evasion, and even welfare fraud if applicable. But they cannot be given immunity when others have been harmed by their criminal conduct. ID theft can destroy an American’s life for many years. It is estimated that 7 million Americans have been victimized, with a large increase in the use of minor’s ID by illegals as it takes longer before it is discovered. Of course DUI’s, document fraud, and violent criminal behavior cannot be forgiven and other serious felonies cannot be forgiven.

    The States that have recently re-instituted the rule of law and are now penalizing employers and landlords who hire/rent to illegal aliens, have proven that if we enforce our laws, the illegal aliens will self deport. It really is that simple.

    Of course, that will put a crimp into the “secret” North American integration plan, and will distress the Free Trade Cabal wanting large profits for the few, but this country still belongs to Americans, not to the politicians, not to big business, not the media. If there is to be a union with Canada and Mexico, it must be structured to benefit all Americans, and can only occur with a treaty ratification by Congress and American citizen’s consent each step of the way. It’s time to make “evolution stealth” a footnote in history.

    If we don’t, we risk losing our language, our culture and our nation.

    All that will remain to be done is to ask the last person in the country we once called American, to lower the flag one last time.

    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/…
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispani…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch… NAFTA SUPER HIGHWAY & look at the report on real ID PSA
    http://thenewamerican.com/node/7152

  3. Reema says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Dear Ms. Betty BB,

    In case you didn't READ the post, the forum you've chosen to post your anti-immigrant message (other than your minuscule concession of allowing highly educated immigrants) on is a forum of primarily 1st and 2nd generation immigrants.

    Normally, when one responds to a post, they participate in a conversation, taking into account what the author of the post has written.

    You, on the other hand, have completely ignored the substance of what Phulkari has written, and instead provided us with yet another example of how Hispanic immigrants are vilified.

    Your propaganda is unwelcome here- take it with you on your way out, back to whatever demented idea of America you think you live in.

    Thank you.

    p.s. Do you have horns and live in a hotter than tropical climate?

  4. Reema says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Dear Ms. Betty BB,

    In case you didn’t READ the post, the forum you’ve chosen to post your anti-immigrant message (other than your minuscule concession of allowing highly educated immigrants) on is a forum of primarily 1st and 2nd generation immigrants.

    Normally, when one responds to a post, they participate in a conversation, taking into account what the author of the post has written.

    You, on the other hand, have completely ignored the substance of what Phulkari has written, and instead provided us with yet another example of how Hispanic immigrants are vilified.

    Your propaganda is unwelcome here- take it with you on your way out, back to whatever demented idea of America you think you live in.

    Thank you.

    p.s. Do you have horns and live in a hotter than tropical climate?

  5. rogerg says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    The truth of the matter is, the hispanic's brought this to the attention to the american people with their marching while waving the flags of their native land. Big mistake on their part, and they continue to be the most vocal, "la raza" etc. etc.. I haven't heard much from the 50,000 to 60,000 Irish yet who are in the same boat, no pun intended.

    All things considered, the problem with the Hispanic's has to do with not only disrespecting our borders but also our nation in general.Their sense of entitlement is both amazing and incredible bad taste.

    As far as them making big money and therefore paying into the system, that is not true. Those who have ITIN numbers, this includes all legal residents and foreign investors add up to less than 2 million people. If the illegals who are using fake ID's or working under the table, as most do, then send 25 billion plus south of the border, use WIC, schools, hospitals, and other services payed for by American tax payers, well you do the math.

    La raza is upset with the use of the word "invaders" well what do you call them?

  6. rogerg says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    The truth of the matter is, the hispanic’s brought this to the attention to the american people with their marching while waving the flags of their native land. Big mistake on their part, and they continue to be the most vocal, “la raza” etc. etc.. I haven’t heard much from the 50,000 to 60,000 Irish yet who are in the same boat, no pun intended.
    All things considered, the problem with the Hispanic’s has to do with not only disrespecting our borders but also our nation in general.Their sense of entitlement is both amazing and incredible bad taste.
    As far as them making big money and therefore paying into the system, that is not true. Those who have ITIN numbers, this includes all legal residents and foreign investors add up to less than 2 million people. If the illegals who are using fake ID’s or working under the table, as most do, then send 25 billion plus south of the border, use WIC, schools, hospitals, and other services payed for by American tax payers, well you do the math.
    La raza is upset with the use of the word “invaders” well what do you call them?

  7. frank l kinney says:
    Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    [Removed by Admin]

  8. frank l kinney says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 3:42 am

    [Removed by Admin]

  9. Bettybb says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 2:03 am

    Dear Ms. Reema,

    "The complexity and nuances of immigration have to be addressed; continual over-simplification does not lead to effective solutions for anyone!

    What are your thoughts? "

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Contrary to your post, I did address the article. I provided my thoughts, and they were nuanced, complex and addressed the issues.

    I note your post did not address the article.

    All your post did was name call. Not very helpful in any debate of the ISSUES. But that is a problem for the anti legal immigration, pro illegal alien crowd it appears you are a part of. You don't have any valid arguments.

    So you make up funny words (like "undocumnented immigrant") or give incorrect meaing to other terms like "immmigrant" or call criminal misdemeanours "civil violations" to try and hide the reality of the situation. And you whine and complain of "racism" and "hate" and "nativism" and "xenophobia" and "villifying Hispanics".

    None of these slurs are actually true, as seen by the number of cases the illegal alien supporters have filed with courts accross the country where the judges have thrown out the racist allegations before the case even starts. Why? The illegal aliens have alleged not one single hint of a FACT to show it has occurred.

    And certainly my post did not in any sense "villify Hispanics". Unless of course you think "villifying Hispanics" means saying you disagree with their position. Or quoting the US Constitution which does not allow one group to demand racist perferences in immigration. If that is the case, boy you must think Hispanics are better and deserve more rights than any one else in the world.

    I call playing the race card the smelly argument. It is intellectually rotten to the core, and it leaves a bad odor on the person making it. It can also be considered hate speech; making false allegation to smear other people. The pro immigrant, pro rule of law, anti illegal alien folk should start to complain to the media when this type of hate speech is used.

    Please note, the term "immigrant" means legal immigrant only.

    The term "illegal alien", centuries old, is used by the US State Department because of its precise meaning. You many not be aware, but the term illegal in the English language is used to connote a lack of authority, ie an illegal lawyer or an illegal doctor.

    If you are pro illegal aliens, that means you want them to have a racist preference over all other visa holders, legal immigrants and American citizens. So obviously you are anti legal immigration. You cannot tell me that legal immigrants support illegal aliens jumping in line in front of them to get into the USA.

    And if you care to read my post again, you will note I am in favor of legal immigration, done properly. That includes highly educated immigrants and then some low skilled ones in a proportion that is economically sound for our country.

    By the way, I presume you are pro racist preferential amnesty for the illegal aliens. Are you ready to raise your taxes in order to pay for the unfunded entitlement that would have to be funded if they were given amnesty? It is 2.5 TRILLION dollars which would need to be collected over the next 20 years. So that means you probably would have to pay say three times the taxes you are paying starting right now.

    You see all the anti legal immigrant and pro illegals never think about the pratical side effects of what they are proposing. I guess you think the money will magically appear from somewhere. I guess you think that it is okay to discriminate and give preferences to one group in immigration matters. I guess you think it is okay for one group to ignore the law.

    What happens when Americans get so fed up they say, hey if illegals do not have to pay taxes neither do I, and stop paying into the system? Or start driving without licenses or paying license fees? Or stop having any deduction taken out of their pay check and demand to be paid under the table instead? Or stop paying their hospital bills? Hint…anarchy. And people are asking themselves these questions.

    Frankly, it is too bad about the entrepreneurs. But you see, we are a nation of laws. And dishonesty harms our country, whether it relates to the business itself or criminal conduct by illegal aliens in entering, working, driving, stealing or forging ID document, ignoring court orders, and evading taxes. Crime is crime.

    Now just to show you that you might want to open you mind and your view of the world, I have actually been an illegal alien but not in this country, and I am married to someone who immigrated when we lived in another country, and have immigrated to another country myself.

    Gee… I guess that means I cannot be anti legal immigrants!

    Gee….I guess that means I do not villify illegal aliens ( except

    the violent criminal ones and child molesters – I don't like

    those people at all).

    So you see, don't assume because someone disagrees with your ideas that they are racist, or spewing propaganda, or are this or that.Address the issues instead.

    Cheers! Bettybb

  10. Bettybb says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 2:03 am

    Dear Ms. Reema,

    “The complexity and nuances of immigration have to be addressed; continual over-simplification does not lead to effective solutions for anyone!

    What are your thoughts? ”
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Contrary to your post, I did address the article. I provided my thoughts, and they were nuanced, complex and addressed the issues.

    I note your post did not address the article.

    All your post did was name call. Not very helpful in any debate of the ISSUES. But that is a problem for the anti legal immigration, pro illegal alien crowd it appears you are a part of. You don’t have any valid arguments.

    So you make up funny words (like “undocumnented immigrant”) or give incorrect meaing to other terms like “immmigrant” or call criminal misdemeanours “civil violations” to try and hide the reality of the situation. And you whine and complain of “racism” and “hate” and “nativism” and “xenophobia” and “villifying Hispanics”.

    None of these slurs are actually true, as seen by the number of cases the illegal alien supporters have filed with courts accross the country where the judges have thrown out the racist allegations before the case even starts. Why? The illegal aliens have alleged not one single hint of a FACT to show it has occurred.

    And certainly my post did not in any sense “villify Hispanics”. Unless of course you think “villifying Hispanics” means saying you disagree with their position. Or quoting the US Constitution which does not allow one group to demand racist perferences in immigration. If that is the case, boy you must think Hispanics are better and deserve more rights than any one else in the world.

    I call playing the race card the smelly argument. It is intellectually rotten to the core, and it leaves a bad odor on the person making it. It can also be considered hate speech; making false allegation to smear other people. The pro immigrant, pro rule of law, anti illegal alien folk should start to complain to the media when this type of hate speech is used.

    Please note, the term “immigrant” means legal immigrant only.

    The term “illegal alien”, centuries old, is used by the US State Department because of its precise meaning. You many not be aware, but the term illegal in the English language is used to connote a lack of authority, ie an illegal lawyer or an illegal doctor.

    If you are pro illegal aliens, that means you want them to have a racist preference over all other visa holders, legal immigrants and American citizens. So obviously you are anti legal immigration. You cannot tell me that legal immigrants support illegal aliens jumping in line in front of them to get into the USA.

    And if you care to read my post again, you will note I am in favor of legal immigration, done properly. That includes highly educated immigrants and then some low skilled ones in a proportion that is economically sound for our country.

    By the way, I presume you are pro racist preferential amnesty for the illegal aliens. Are you ready to raise your taxes in order to pay for the unfunded entitlement that would have to be funded if they were given amnesty? It is 2.5 TRILLION dollars which would need to be collected over the next 20 years. So that means you probably would have to pay say three times the taxes you are paying starting right now.

    You see all the anti legal immigrant and pro illegals never think about the pratical side effects of what they are proposing. I guess you think the money will magically appear from somewhere. I guess you think that it is okay to discriminate and give preferences to one group in immigration matters. I guess you think it is okay for one group to ignore the law.

    What happens when Americans get so fed up they say, hey if illegals do not have to pay taxes neither do I, and stop paying into the system? Or start driving without licenses or paying license fees? Or stop having any deduction taken out of their pay check and demand to be paid under the table instead? Or stop paying their hospital bills? Hint…anarchy. And people are asking themselves these questions.

    Frankly, it is too bad about the entrepreneurs. But you see, we are a nation of laws. And dishonesty harms our country, whether it relates to the business itself or criminal conduct by illegal aliens in entering, working, driving, stealing or forging ID document, ignoring court orders, and evading taxes. Crime is crime.

    Now just to show you that you might want to open you mind and your view of the world, I have actually been an illegal alien but not in this country, and I am married to someone who immigrated when we lived in another country, and have immigrated to another country myself.

    Gee… I guess that means I cannot be anti legal immigrants!
    Gee….I guess that means I do not villify illegal aliens ( except
    the violent criminal ones and child molesters – I don’t like
    those people at all).

    So you see, don’t assume because someone disagrees with your ideas that they are racist, or spewing propaganda, or are this or that.Address the issues instead.

    Cheers! Bettybb

  11. Jerry says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 10:28 am

    Yes, the fact is there are two types of immigrants,

    1. Those that love America, have businesses or great income and plan to assimilate.

    2. Those that only come here to exploit America, earn what they can, use as many free services as they can and then go back.

    The new immigration reform should reflect those two groups and treat them as such. Temporary work permits for the second group and nothing else – no free medical etc. Path to citizenship for the first group, as that is what those people are working hard for everyday.

  12. Jerry says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 10:28 am

    Yes, the fact is there are two types of immigrants,
    1. Those that love America, have businesses or great income and plan to assimilate.
    2. Those that only come here to exploit America, earn what they can, use as many free services as they can and then go back.

    The new immigration reform should reflect those two groups and treat them as such. Temporary work permits for the second group and nothing else – no free medical etc. Path to citizenship for the first group, as that is what those people are working hard for everyday.

  13. Bettybb says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Jerry,

    You are correct about there should be room for a system for people who would like to work here for a short while, as well as a citizenship track.

    Obviously, many Illegal aliens do not really want citzenship:

    1. Of all Mexicans who are eligible, only 13% become citizens.

    2. There is a short cut to American citizenship, but illegal aliens

    are not taking it. Service in the US military. Instead they want

    the Dream Act; ie taxpayer subsidies for tuition and to take

    Federal and State financial aid away from low income American

    students and give it to to the illegals. They want a free ride.

    3. McCain Campaign's Hispanic Outreach Director has said:

    Mexican immigrants “are going to keep one foot in Mexico

    and are not going to assimilate.”

    “We are betting that the Mexican population in the United

    States …will think Mexico first.”

    But all illegls must first be deported (after serving jail time for crimes), then apply to either permanent or temporary status:

    1. They must compete against everyone else in the world or entry.

    Otherwise it is discrimination. One law for everyone, applied

    equally.

    2. They must receive no prefernetial or special treatment or it is

    discrimnation. One law for everyone, applied equally.

    3. They must go to the back of the line, just like anyone else. One

    law for everyone, applied equally,

    4. All Americans haave an EQUAL RIGHT to bring in their families and

    ethnic group on e2ual conditions with all other Americans.

    5. Amnesty, pathways, special visas are all racist, giving illegals (

    mostly Hispanics) GREATER RIGTHS THAN legal immigrants of other

    races, and leal Hispanic immigrants.

    6. Amnesty, pathways, special visas are all racist, giving Hispanic

    Americans GREATER RIGHTS THAN all other Americans in brining in

    their families and ethnic group.

    The US Constitution clearly states that the government can not pass a law that discriminates on the basis race, or ethnic background.

    All the amnesty / pathway / special visas proposals discriminate.

    Legal immigrants and Non Hispanic Americans are tossed aside, with mainy Hispanic illegal aliens being given preferential rights.

    The US Constitution clearly states that the government can not pass a law that does not afford equal protection to all Americans.

    All the amnesty /pathway / specical visas proposals do not give non Hispanic Americans equal protection of the law – instead they give greater rights to Hispanic Americans.

    What the illegal aliens are demanding is really appalling, and it just shows how little they know about America and our philosophy of equality.

    SAY NO TO RACIST PREFERENTIAL AMNETSY / PATHWAY / VISAS PROPOSALS!

    SAY YES TO EQUAL IMMIGRATION RIGHTS FOR ALL !

  14. Bettybb says:
    Friday, March 7, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Jerry,

    You are correct about there should be room for a system for people who would like to work here for a short while, as well as a citizenship track.

    Obviously, many Illegal aliens do not really want citzenship:

    1. Of all Mexicans who are eligible, only 13% become citizens.
    2. There is a short cut to American citizenship, but illegal aliens
    are not taking it. Service in the US military. Instead they want
    the Dream Act; ie taxpayer subsidies for tuition and to take
    Federal and State financial aid away from low income American
    students and give it to to the illegals. They want a free ride.
    3. McCain Campaign’s Hispanic Outreach Director has said:
    Mexican immigrants “are going to keep one foot in Mexico
    and are not going to assimilate.”
    “We are betting that the Mexican population in the United
    States …will think Mexico first.”

    But all illegls must first be deported (after serving jail time for crimes), then apply to either permanent or temporary status:

    1. They must compete against everyone else in the world or entry.
    Otherwise it is discrimination. One law for everyone, applied
    equally.
    2. They must receive no prefernetial or special treatment or it is
    discrimnation. One law for everyone, applied equally.
    3. They must go to the back of the line, just like anyone else. One
    law for everyone, applied equally,
    4. All Americans haave an EQUAL RIGHT to bring in their families and
    ethnic group on e2ual conditions with all other Americans.
    5. Amnesty, pathways, special visas are all racist, giving illegals (
    mostly Hispanics) GREATER RIGTHS THAN legal immigrants of other
    races, and leal Hispanic immigrants.
    6. Amnesty, pathways, special visas are all racist, giving Hispanic
    Americans GREATER RIGHTS THAN all other Americans in brining in
    their families and ethnic group.

    The US Constitution clearly states that the government can not pass a law that discriminates on the basis race, or ethnic background.

    All the amnesty / pathway / special visas proposals discriminate.
    Legal immigrants and Non Hispanic Americans are tossed aside, with mainy Hispanic illegal aliens being given preferential rights.

    The US Constitution clearly states that the government can not pass a law that does not afford equal protection to all Americans.

    All the amnesty /pathway / specical visas proposals do not give non Hispanic Americans equal protection of the law – instead they give greater rights to Hispanic Americans.

    What the illegal aliens are demanding is really appalling, and it just shows how little they know about America and our philosophy of equality.

    SAY NO TO RACIST PREFERENTIAL AMNETSY / PATHWAY / VISAS PROPOSALS!

    SAY YES TO EQUAL IMMIGRATION RIGHTS FOR ALL !

  15. Admin Singh says:
    Friday, March 14, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Commentary on this thread has been closed because it became a space to "vilify" illegal immigrants than have a productive conversation about immigration policy in the United States.

  16. Admin Singh says:
    Friday, March 14, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Commentary on this thread has been closed because it became a space to “vilify” illegal immigrants than have a productive conversation about immigration policy in the United States.