Enjoy The Show But Leave Your Kirpan At Home
Vaisakhi in the diaspora usually brings two things to those living in cities with large Sikh communities: Nagar Kirtans and Vaisakhi concerts. Unfortunately, if you were an Amritdhari Sikh in London this year and you wanted to partake in both, you would have been out of luck. Tickets for the recent Gurdas Maan concert held at Wembley Arena had a unique warning printed on them, “NO KIRPANS OR SHARP OBJECTS”.
I won’t dwell too much on the irony of banning kirpans at a Vaisakhi concert, which usually start with the requisite dharmak songs, like Gurdas Maan’s tribute to Guru Gobind Singh and his contributions to Sikhi.
What I wonder is exactly what the organizers must have been thinking in doing this. I suspect the banning of kirpans probably falls under generic security rules banning knives and other weapons. In fact the terms and conditions on their website state that the “possession of any article, which is or may be used as a weapon or missile” is strictly prohibited. Pretty standard fare at all large venues.
However, what kind of discussions took place between the venue and the organizers that resulted in the warning being printed on the ticket? Did the venue demand the label or did the organizers do it proactively to avoid problems with security? Did the organizers try to get an exemption for the kirpan or did they just capitulate to the venue’s demands? Where there other alternative venues that could have been used to host the event instead of Wembley Arena? And worst of all, did the organizers (likely Sikh and / or Punjabi) just not care if they knowingly discriminated against potential attendees?
You can read more about the tickets (in Gurmukhi) at Punjabi Daily. If you were at the concert or knew about what happened to precipitate the warning, please share with us on TLH.
98 Responses to “Enjoy The Show But Leave Your Kirpan At Home”
how is this discrimination by any means? it is only fair that there is no sharp object present in a gathering of over 12,000 people. Haven't you seen tempers flare in such big crowds? and having a kirpan in sight only makes it a potential weapon. :/ It's only logical. They do make you take off kirpans when boarding a plane too, isn't it? Can you guys every view things from a practical logical point of view or does it always have to be an emotionally convoluted route dipped in some romantic idea of religion that you have developed sitting miles away from homeland that you'd never move back to?
to an Indian Sikh
Please show off your real name !
I wont be surprised but sad that its our own people who possibly have been behind the kirpan ban , or have overlooked.
No offense to Gurdas mann, he is Great artist but now its upto him to react on this matter. If he doesn`t then he is overlooking too!
I think Indian Sikh hit the nail on the head and Jaswinder Singh (if that is your real name…also, no surname???) has some weird delusions.
Gurdas Maan is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, Punjab singer of all time. This includes Lal Chand Yamla Jatt, Surinder Kaur, Kuldip Manak, and the list goes on.
Now we come to the kirpans. Have you never been to a "Vaisakhi" Mela in the UK. When was the last you went and there wasn't a fracas of some sort involving kirpans/swords. Gurdas Maan doesn't need to react to this as its irrelevant.
If you, Jaswinder Singh, are such a devout Sikh, why don't you move back to Punjab and practice what you preach there and spare us your thoughts. "Oh no, a kirpan ban…now we can't take our swords to a show…I wonder why they banned the kirpans, it can't be because we are extremists who go too far and give a bad name to the peaceful Sikhs".
(Sorry about the rant Langar Hall, you guys do a great job of bringing the news to the forefront, its just some idiots take things too seriously, when they are sitting behind some desk and not using their proper name.
Oh i c, Now i know who was "an Indian Sikh" LoL
>>>>>>
You SAid :
Jaswinder Singh (if that is your real name…also, no surname???)
<<<<<<
Wow, Cannot you see 'Singh' is a Complete Surname given by Guru sahib ??? Do you still need additional surname ??
how is this discrimination by any means? it is only fair that there is no sharp object present in a gathering of over 12,000 people. Haven’t you seen tempers flare in such big crowds? and having a kirpan in sight only makes it a potential weapon. :/ It’s only logical. They do make you take off kirpans when boarding a plane too, isn’t it? Can you guys every view things from a practical logical point of view or does it always have to be an emotionally convoluted route dipped in some romantic idea of religion that you have developed sitting miles away from homeland that you’d never move back to?
to an Indian Sikh
Please show off your real name !
I wont be surprised but sad that its our own people who possibly have been behind the kirpan ban , or have overlooked.
No offense to Gurdas mann, he is Great artist but now its upto him to react on this matter. If he doesn`t then he is overlooking too!
exactly, Amarpreet.
@Jaswinder, I used this name because it is necessary for me to state that I am an Indian foremost and I don't like my country being badmouthed on this website every now and then. Second to being an Indian, I am Punjabi and my name is Anju (short for Ajminder) Mann. I am not sure how sharing my name would validate my statement or strengthen its merit.
I think Indian Sikh hit the nail on the head and Jaswinder Singh (if that is your real name…also, no surname???) has some weird delusions.
Gurdas Maan is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, Punjab singer of all time. This includes Lal Chand Yamla Jatt, Surinder Kaur, Kuldip Manak, and the list goes on.
Now we come to the kirpans. Have you never been to a “Vaisakhi” Mela in the UK. When was the last you went and there wasn’t a fracas of some sort involving kirpans/swords. Gurdas Maan doesn’t need to react to this as its irrelevant.
If you, Jaswinder Singh, are such a devout Sikh, why don’t you move back to Punjab and practice what you preach there and spare us your thoughts. “Oh no, a kirpan ban…now we can’t take our swords to a show…I wonder why they banned the kirpans, it can’t be because we are extremists who go too far and give a bad name to the peaceful Sikhs”.
(Sorry about the rant Langar Hall, you guys do a great job of bringing the news to the forefront, its just some idiots take things too seriously, when they are sitting behind some desk and not using their proper name.
Oh i c, Now i know who was “an Indian Sikh” LoL
>>>>>>
You SAid :
Jaswinder Singh (if that is your real name…also, no surname???)
<<<<<<
Wow, Cannot you see ‘Singh’ is a Complete Surname given by Guru sahib ??? Do you still need additional surname ??
exactly, Amarpreet.
@Jaswinder, I used this name because it is necessary for me to state that I am an Indian foremost and I don’t like my country being badmouthed on this website every now and then. Second to being an Indian, I am Punjabi and my name is Anju (short for Ajminder) Mann. I am not sure how sharing my name would validate my statement or strengthen its merit.
This is a reply to both the Indian Sikh and Amarpreet Gill, West Bromwich (B'ham) UK that both of you are attacking Sikhism from within. I am a proud amritdhari Sikh and a Sikh lawyer in New York. In America we have Sikh organisations such as Sikh Coalition, United Sikhs and SALDEF(Sikh American Legal Defense Education Fund) who have won many cases in allowing a Sikh to wear their turbans and kirpans in public. I would encourage the British Sikhs to start a similar Sikh legal advocacy group in UK to safeguard the Sikh identity and not to compromise it at any cost. To the Indian Sikh it is ironic that you call yourself an Indian and a Sikh because Article 25 of the Indian Constitution clearly states that anyone professing Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism is referred to as a Hindu. The 1984 anti Sikh massacre which occurred all throughout India has not convicted a single person of participating in a genocide against a particular community. Mahaatma Gandhi had called Guru Gobind Singh Ji a misled warrior. The Congress Party, BJP, RSS, and VHP all internally hate the Sikhs and they always try to look for new ways to attack the Sikh religion. Dera Sacha Sauda leader Gurmit Ram Rahim who wore a dress similar to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and a shoes with the ik onkar symbol of it; is protected by the BJP-SAD alliance. Baba Baniarawala is the man who burnt the Guru Granth Sahib and wrote his own book called Bhav Sagar Granth in which he attacks Sikhism; is protected by the Indian government. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh did not make sure that the 1984 cases against Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar convicts them of murders.
This is a reply to both the Indian Sikh and Amarpreet Gill, West Bromwich (B’ham) UK that both of you are attacking Sikhism from within. I am a proud amritdhari Sikh and a Sikh lawyer in New York. In America we have Sikh organisations such as Sikh Coalition, United Sikhs and SALDEF(Sikh American Legal Defense Education Fund) who have won many cases in allowing a Sikh to wear their turbans and kirpans in public. I would encourage the British Sikhs to start a similar Sikh legal advocacy group in UK to safeguard the Sikh identity and not to compromise it at any cost. To the Indian Sikh it is ironic that you call yourself an Indian and a Sikh because Article 25 of the Indian Constitution clearly states that anyone professing Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism is referred to as a Hindu. The 1984 anti Sikh massacre which occurred all throughout India has not convicted a single person of participating in a genocide against a particular community. Mahaatma Gandhi had called Guru Gobind Singh Ji a misled warrior. The Congress Party, BJP, RSS, and VHP all internally hate the Sikhs and they always try to look for new ways to attack the Sikh religion. Dera Sacha Sauda leader Gurmit Ram Rahim who wore a dress similar to Guru Gobind Singh Ji and a shoes with the ik onkar symbol of it; is protected by the BJP-SAD alliance. Baba Baniarawala is the man who burnt the Guru Granth Sahib and wrote his own book called Bhav Sagar Granth in which he attacks Sikhism; is protected by the Indian government. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh did not make sure that the 1984 cases against Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar convicts them of murders.
The question here, Son of GGSJ, is NOT of wearing turbans and kirpans in public but in a confined space with a crowd that has the potential of going out of control if security measures are not adhered to. Why would any organizer want to risk a failure of security? I certainly don't want to be with a crowd of people wherein people come in partially/fully drunk and have kirpans at easy access in case they choose to fight their aggression out.
On a side note, I am certain that amritdhari sikhs do wear turbans and carry kirpans in public in UK as well.
Where did u get that quote of Gandhi? I would love to see an authentic and a valid source please. I'd much rather not comment on the parties. Heck, even Akali Dal is in joint alliance with BJP in Punjab. I don't know why people sitting outside of India are still harping on the same tune over and over again. Punjab elected Congress into power many times since 1984 and Punjab would do it again too. All politicians are the same no matter what party and religion. Power makes your head go round and they use religion and any which means possible to divide and rule and fill their own bank accounts. Badal, the great Akali leader, also sure leads in corruption as well. Generations after him don't need to work for money at least. Good for their family. Bad for all of those who voted for him in the name of religion.
As for Dera Sacha Sauda and other such sects … I wonder why Guru Nanak Dev Ji's story is never quoted where mullahs get offended with him for sleeping with his legs towards mecca. Guru ji says with a smile, "turn my legs whichever way it is not offensive" … and you must know the rest. Why can't we just smile when someone tries to offend us and/or is offended? That's what our Gurus would've liked. Guru Arjan Devi ji, Guru Teg Bahadur ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji … all gave their lives for those who are suffering … and here we are, fighting petty wars of intolerance instead of embracing everything that's different and letting our Guru's philosophies and teachings win over by their merit!
Peace.
To bear arms, to wear the Kirpan is a birth right of every Sikh as ordained by our Father Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Kirpan is sovereignty & without it there is only slavery. We have every right and reason to challenge this .. Truth and righteousness is with us. Gurdas Mann should be held accountable for every reason as anyone would be in his situation. Reading a few of the above posts are just a sample of the backward mentality that Sikhs have succumbed to. Gurdas Mann has done everything in his power to harm the unique identity of Sikhs and culture of Punjab .. ironically with the full support of Sikhs. He took full advantage of the halat of Punjab. He propogates alcohol and casteism in his songs and music videos .. has worked hard to confuse our youth of their identity. What identity does he adhere to? A Sikh one day .. the next a Hindu or a Muslim .. sometimes a Christian. He will sing of any dera baba for a price and at the same time come out with some songs in honor of Guru Ji to keep his victims baited. Punjab is viral with alcoholism and casteism. If Gurdas Mann is the heart and hero of Punjab .. this can be measured with the fact that the majority of Punjabis are caught in the trap of acoholism and caste. No self respecting Sikh would entertain this crook. While our mothers, sisters and daughters are suffering with their alcohol addicted husbands and sons he continues to propogate it.
Sikhs do not need to go back to Punjab, live in Punjab or to have ever been to Punjab to practice Sikhi with self respect and to its fullest. Sikhi is a universal religion. The religion for future humanity and is not adhere to any restrictions of borders. Khalsa answers only to Guru and God. As a Sikh would you want it any other way? To our misguided brothers who have been raised by regurgitated hate propaganda .. embrace your true self. Join your brothers and sisters as proud Sikhs. You will feel more pleasure and contentment than fighting your own self .. a fight that will plauge you for your whole life.
The question here, Son of GGSJ, is NOT of wearing turbans and kirpans in public but in a confined space with a crowd that has the potential of going out of control if security measures are not adhered to. Why would any organizer want to risk a failure of security? I certainly don’t want to be with a crowd of people wherein people come in partially/fully drunk and have kirpans at easy access in case they choose to fight their aggression out.
On a side note, I am certain that amritdhari sikhs do wear turbans and carry kirpans in public in UK as well.
Where did u get that quote of Gandhi? I would love to see an authentic and a valid source please. I’d much rather not comment on the parties. Heck, even Akali Dal is in joint alliance with BJP in Punjab. I don’t know why people sitting outside of India are still harping on the same tune over and over again. Punjab elected Congress into power many times since 1984 and Punjab would do it again too. All politicians are the same no matter what party and religion. Power makes your head go round and they use religion and any which means possible to divide and rule and fill their own bank accounts. Badal, the great Akali leader, also sure leads in corruption as well. Generations after him don’t need to work for money at least. Good for their family. Bad for all of those who voted for him in the name of religion.
As for Dera Sacha Sauda and other such sects … I wonder why Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s story is never quoted where mullahs get offended with him for sleeping with his legs towards mecca. Guru ji says with a smile, “turn my legs whichever way it is not offensive” … and you must know the rest. Why can’t we just smile when someone tries to offend us and/or is offended? That’s what our Gurus would’ve liked. Guru Arjan Devi ji, Guru Teg Bahadur ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji … all gave their lives for those who are suffering … and here we are, fighting petty wars of intolerance instead of embracing everything that’s different and letting our Guru’s philosophies and teachings win over by their merit!
Peace.
To bear arms, to wear the Kirpan is a birth right of every Sikh as ordained by our Father Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Kirpan is sovereignty & without it there is only slavery. We have every right and reason to challenge this .. Truth and righteousness is with us. Gurdas Mann should be held accountable for every reason as anyone would be in his situation. Reading a few of the above posts are just a sample of the backward mentality that Sikhs have succumbed to. Gurdas Mann has done everything in his power to harm the unique identity of Sikhs and culture of Punjab .. ironically with the full support of Sikhs. He took full advantage of the halat of Punjab. He propogates alcohol and casteism in his songs and music videos .. has worked hard to confuse our youth of their identity. What identity does he adhere to? A Sikh one day .. the next a Hindu or a Muslim .. sometimes a Christian. He will sing of any dera baba for a price and at the same time come out with some songs in honor of Guru Ji to keep his victims baited. Punjab is viral with alcoholism and casteism. If Gurdas Mann is the heart and hero of Punjab .. this can be measured with the fact that the majority of Punjabis are caught in the trap of acoholism and caste. No self respecting Sikh would entertain this crook. While our mothers, sisters and daughters are suffering with their alcohol addicted husbands and sons he continues to propogate it.
Sikhs do not need to go back to Punjab, live in Punjab or to have ever been to Punjab to practice Sikhi with self respect and to its fullest. Sikhi is a universal religion. The religion for future humanity and is not adhere to any restrictions of borders. Khalsa answers only to Guru and God. As a Sikh would you want it any other way? To our misguided brothers who have been raised by regurgitated hate propaganda .. embrace your true self. Join your brothers and sisters as proud Sikhs. You will feel more pleasure and contentment than fighting your own self .. a fight that will plauge you for your whole life.
the "Indian Sikh" is arguing with himself. he needs to step back. Take a deep breath, clear his mind and evaluate himself. It is sad he is in internal chaos. I wish him the best and hope he finds himself. There is no such thing as an "Indian Sikh" there is a Sikh, an Indian and a Gadar. This lost soul fights himself. The security should be taking breath tests for people under the influence of alcohol and barring them for entrance not religion as the Indian -?- Sikh makes concern of this.
the “Indian Sikh” is arguing with himself. he needs to step back. Take a deep breath, clear his mind and evaluate himself. It is sad he is in internal chaos. I wish him the best and hope he finds himself. There is no such thing as an “Indian Sikh” there is a Sikh, an Indian and a Gadar. This lost soul fights himself. The security should be taking breath tests for people under the influence of alcohol and barring them for entrance not religion as the Indian -?- Sikh makes concern of this.
i will never forget going to Hemkunt Sahib (being just 11yrs old) and staying the night at Gurdwara halfway up to Hemkunt Sahib. To the suprise of the whole sangat, Gurdas Mann was there too. He was requested by the sangat to sing 'Ucha Dar Babe Nanak Da', thus Gurdas Mann began( in the presence of Guru Jee)to the horror of the sangat, Gurdas Mann could not sing, because he was DRUNK!!! Immediately he and his entourage were thrown out of the asthaan.
i wouldn't be suprised if Gurdas Mann did enforce this disclaimer on the ticket!!!
i will never forget going to Hemkunt Sahib (being just 11yrs old) and staying the night at Gurdwara halfway up to Hemkunt Sahib. To the suprise of the whole sangat, Gurdas Mann was there too. He was requested by the sangat to sing ‘Ucha Dar Babe Nanak Da’, thus Gurdas Mann began( in the presence of Guru Jee)to the horror of the sangat, Gurdas Mann could not sing, because he was DRUNK!!! Immediately he and his entourage were thrown out of the asthaan.
i wouldn’t be suprised if Gurdas Mann did enforce this disclaimer on the ticket!!!
First of all, I am a 'she'; secondly, about being Sikh, Indian and Gadar comment, I really didn't get the logic of that. Is it supposed to make sense? Sure, I am a sikh but that's in my personal domain. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. I don't need to. Sikhi is not my identity. I grew up in Chandigarh and Ludhiana and studied in the school system there. In the schools I went to, we had an equal number of hindus and sikhs .. .and never did religion ever become an issue amongst us and this was during 1980s and 1990s punjab. Terrorism was rife but us kids – both hindus and sikhs – were best of friends at school. We had hindu teachers as well as we did sikh. The whole terrorism and all the nonsense related to it was only game of politicians as it is with everything screwed up with the world. The average man – woman – kids – whoever had nothing to do with it. We were happy living with each other. We grew up celebrating each others' festivals with full vigor. Me and my sis were always a part of janam-ashtmi at a local temple whilst our hindu friends were always a part of gurpurab celebrations with us. That's the only reality I know. Religion never was a part of our identity growing up and it still isn't. It is a private concern that I deal with personally.
However, I would define my identity as an Indian. When I travel across the world, I don't travel as a Sikh, I travel with an Indian passport and proudly so! Sikhi is in my actions and how I behave towards others … with love, respect and tolerance. My identity is Indian … Punjabi … since that's the family I was born to.
About Gurdas Mann, I shan't say anything. I respect the man for respecting all religions and all sects and whatever is out there all the same. He is a true Sikh in my eyes. He can sing praise for anyone. 'Aval allah noor upaya kudrat de sab bande' indeed!
First of all, I am a ‘she’; secondly, about being Sikh, Indian and Gadar comment, I really didn’t get the logic of that. Is it supposed to make sense? Sure, I am a sikh but that’s in my personal domain. I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve. I don’t need to. Sikhi is not my identity. I grew up in Chandigarh and Ludhiana and studied in the school system there. In the schools I went to, we had an equal number of hindus and sikhs .. .and never did religion ever become an issue amongst us and this was during 1980s and 1990s punjab. Terrorism was rife but us kids – both hindus and sikhs – were best of friends at school. We had hindu teachers as well as we did sikh. The whole terrorism and all the nonsense related to it was only game of politicians as it is with everything screwed up with the world. The average man – woman – kids – whoever had nothing to do with it. We were happy living with each other. We grew up celebrating each others’ festivals with full vigor. Me and my sis were always a part of janam-ashtmi at a local temple whilst our hindu friends were always a part of gurpurab celebrations with us. That’s the only reality I know. Religion never was a part of our identity growing up and it still isn’t. It is a private concern that I deal with personally.
However, I would define my identity as an Indian. When I travel across the world, I don’t travel as a Sikh, I travel with an Indian passport and proudly so! Sikhi is in my actions and how I behave towards others … with love, respect and tolerance. My identity is Indian … Punjabi … since that’s the family I was born to.
About Gurdas Mann, I shan’t say anything. I respect the man for respecting all religions and all sects and whatever is out there all the same. He is a true Sikh in my eyes. He can sing praise for anyone. ‘Aval allah noor upaya kudrat de sab bande’ indeed!
indian or ? … when you decide what you are .. were you raised in a bubble? What a disgrace to the female gender. No issues came between you and your Hindu friends in the 80's and 90's? With your attitude what issues could. Your denial makes you as good as guilty with everyone who commit the crimes against humanity.
so you don't like this site talking bad about India? If we were in india would you have us lined up and shot in front or of our children or possibly gangraped? because that is what they do to people in India who practice freedom of speech. You wouldn't know what that is because there is none in india. Your own words reveal your ignorance and you defeat yourself.
Consider this:
When launching his movie "Des Hoya Pardes" in 2004, Gurdas Mann commented " It is an effort to portray the suffering of the common man. This film is set in Punjab during the period of terrorism. "
Standing right next to him, whilst he was uttering these words, is none other than the Butcher of Panjab, KP Gill.
Given he can stand shoulder to shoulder with the most notorious of state-sanctioned killers, who terrorised many a "common man" does Gurdas seem like someone who'd given a damn if the Sikh members of his audience could come in wearing their Kirpan and Gatra or not?! I don't.
In case anyone thinks I made that up:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041111/chd.htm
Scroll down a bit.
Joo Kay Singh,
With that single comment I think you just changed my opinion about Gurdas Mann.
Despite the fact that all Punjabis give the compulsory lauds to Gurdas Mann, for years me included, that is now over.
indian or ? … when you decide what you are .. were you raised in a bubble? What a disgrace to the female gender. No issues came between you and your Hindu friends in the 80’s and 90’s? With your attitude what issues could. Your denial makes you as good as guilty with everyone who commit the crimes against humanity.
so you don’t like this site talking bad about India? If we were in india would you have us lined up and shot in front or of our children or possibly gangraped? because that is what they do to people in India who practice freedom of speech. You wouldn’t know what that is because there is none in india. Your own words reveal your ignorance and you defeat yourself.
Consider this:
When launching his movie “Des Hoya Pardes” in 2004, Gurdas Mann commented ” It is an effort to portray the suffering of the common man. This film is set in Punjab during the period of terrorism. ”
Standing right next to him, whilst he was uttering these words, is none other than the Butcher of Panjab, KP Gill.
Given he can stand shoulder to shoulder with the most notorious of state-sanctioned killers, who terrorised many a “common man” does Gurdas seem like someone who’d given a damn if the Sikh members of his audience could come in wearing their Kirpan and Gatra or not?! I don’t.
In case anyone thinks I made that up:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041111/chd.htm
Scroll down a bit.
Joo Kay Singh,
With that single comment I think you just changed my opinion about Gurdas Mann.
Despite the fact that all Punjabis give the compulsory lauds to Gurdas Mann, for years me included, that is now over.
@ S Kaur: what?
@ tg: I was raised in India, I live in India but temporarily visiting US. I practiced freedom of speech growing there and still do. I was born into a Sikh family and still follow the same faith IN India practicing full freedom of speech and religion. I don't know anyone discriminating against me.
If there was anyone who I have felt fear of is men with saffron turbans and AK 47s roaming the streets killing anyone they felt like in terrorism period of 80s and 90s. None of you who havent lived in Punjab in that time period has lived it; so I really wonder what you are all on about.
As for KPS Gill, he is not a man worthy of being written of in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day. It is terribly sad that some lives were unnecessarily lost but, at that time, it was a unanimous consensus by majority in Punjab and there was support from people in Punjab for KPS Gill's decision. He wiped out terrorism the way he thought was best. Majority of Punjab was thankful to him for that and relieved that we no longer were afraid when our fathers stepped out the doors for their regular 9-5 jobs.
oh also, I have lost 4 family members during the period of terrorism. All four members were practicing turbaned sikhs and their killers were ALSO turbaned sikhs who we did track down eventually.
People who moved out to Canada / America / UK before 80s or fled away because of terrorism are so terribly misguided, unaware of the realities on ground, and keep harping on nonsense that biased media used to feed them and continues to feed them. The gurdwaras in these countries are also breeding hatred. It's amazing. I am really amazed that people back home in Punjab have no such feelings. They are living a peaceful life coexisting with everyone else irrespective of religion or anything else.
It really begs the question: is there any political agenda behind people who keep saying that Sikhs in India are being discriminated against? :/ If not, then why are they making stuff up?
@ S Kaur: what?
@ tg: I was raised in India, I live in India but temporarily visiting US. I practiced freedom of speech growing there and still do. I was born into a Sikh family and still follow the same faith IN India practicing full freedom of speech and religion. I don’t know anyone discriminating against me.
If there was anyone who I have felt fear of is men with saffron turbans and AK 47s roaming the streets killing anyone they felt like in terrorism period of 80s and 90s. None of you who havent lived in Punjab in that time period has lived it; so I really wonder what you are all on about.
As for KPS Gill, he is not a man worthy of being written of in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day. It is terribly sad that some lives were unnecessarily lost but, at that time, it was a unanimous consensus by majority in Punjab and there was support from people in Punjab for KPS Gill’s decision. He wiped out terrorism the way he thought was best. Majority of Punjab was thankful to him for that and relieved that we no longer were afraid when our fathers stepped out the doors for their regular 9-5 jobs.
oh also, I have lost 4 family members during the period of terrorism. All four members were practicing turbaned sikhs and their killers were ALSO turbaned sikhs who we did track down eventually.
People who moved out to Canada / America / UK before 80s or fled away because of terrorism are so terribly misguided, unaware of the realities on ground, and keep harping on nonsense that biased media used to feed them and continues to feed them. The gurdwaras in these countries are also breeding hatred. It’s amazing. I am really amazed that people back home in Punjab have no such feelings. They are living a peaceful life coexisting with everyone else irrespective of religion or anything else.
It really begs the question: is there any political agenda behind people who keep saying that Sikhs in India are being discriminated against? :/ If not, then why are they making stuff up?
I hope they ban everyone's keys and Pens as well because they can be used as weapons. Also, you might want to tie up everyone's hands as the waving bhangra elbows and hands may cause a fracas and lead to a pummeling of epic proportions.
Such bans are not realistic or enforceable or make a difference. People will use anything as a weapon.
One would hope those who have taken Amrit understand that you are to become a saint before a soldier to be a saint-soldier and drawing your Kirpan at a concert is likely the last place saintliness or soldiering is needed.
I hope they ban everyone’s keys and Pens as well because they can be used as weapons. Also, you might want to tie up everyone’s hands as the waving bhangra elbows and hands may cause a fracas and lead to a pummeling of epic proportions.
Such bans are not realistic or enforceable or make a difference. People will use anything as a weapon.
One would hope those who have taken Amrit understand that you are to become a saint before a soldier to be a saint-soldier and drawing your Kirpan at a concert is likely the last place saintliness or soldiering is needed.
Amritdharee Singhs and Kaurs, who follow Guru Sahibs told Rehat, have no business at these events. Yeh sure they might sing two or three songs about how punjab is so great or something regarding Dharmic stuff, but the rest is just: "oo lets dance, I think your soo this, I want to do this with you and that." Dasam father clearly states that the Singh who will listen to a song (with joy) involving someone considering a women in the wrong manner will be kicked out of Gursikhi and the house of the Khalsa; most of you probably think I am lying or a radical, so listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgstQkRYy8E&fe… . Of course I am not trying to judge anyone hear, just saying that Gur Sahibs true Gursikhs and Khalsa don't visit such events and shouldn't feel the need. And those who think that Sikhi is not a identity, you no nothing about Sikhism or Khalsa; Dasam father, in Rehatnama, clearly states that without Rehat one is not a Sikh.
indian you should enlist in the indian police force or the indian paramilitary forces. Then she can really practice the freedom and democracy she barks about. She should back her words by walking down any street in india and shout Khalistan Zindabad or equality for Dalits or anything else 'controversial' for the indian government .. ask for self determination in Kashmir — even if she doesn`t believe in any of the above. Do it for the experiment. Test your `faith`in your 'beliefs'. If india has freedom of speech you should have nothing to be afraid of. There will be no chance of you being shot or beaten on the spot or worse — you and your loved ones dragged into an indian police jail and tortured. Why don`t you try this first and then write about your experiences. Millions of men women and children have died in Kashmir, Punjab, Tamil Nadu, Orissa, Assam, Manipur, Mizoram, Gujrat, Bodoland and the list goes on. Quit blaming it on petty politics and politicians. Its called systematic genocide.
Amritdharee Singhs and Kaurs, who follow Guru Sahibs told Rehat, have no business at these events. Yeh sure they might sing two or three songs about how punjab is so great or something regarding Dharmic stuff, but the rest is just: "oo lets dance, I think your soo this, I want to do this with you and that." Dasam father clearly states that the Singh who will listen to a song (with joy) involving someone considering a women in the wrong manner will be kicked out of Gursikhi and the house of the Khalsa; most of you probably think I am lying or a radical, so listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgstQkRYy8E&fe… . Of course I am not trying to judge anyone hear, just saying that Gur Sahibs true Gursikhs and Khalsa don't visit such events and shouldn't feel the need. And those who think that Sikhi is not a identity, you no nothing about Sikhism or Khalsa; Dasam father, in Rehatnama, clearly states that without Rehat one is not a Sikh.
indian you should enlist in the indian police force or the indian paramilitary forces. Then she can really practice the freedom and democracy she barks about. She should back her words by walking down any street in india and shout Khalistan Zindabad or equality for Dalits or anything else ‘controversial’ for the indian government .. ask for self determination in Kashmir — even if she doesn`t believe in any of the above. Do it for the experiment. Test your `faith`in your ‘beliefs’. If india has freedom of speech you should have nothing to be afraid of. There will be no chance of you being shot or beaten on the spot or worse — you and your loved ones dragged into an indian police jail and tortured. Why don`t you try this first and then write about your experiences. Millions of men women and children have died in Kashmir, Punjab, Tamil Nadu, Orissa, Assam, Manipur, Mizoram, Gujrat, Bodoland and the list goes on. Quit blaming it on petty politics and politicians. Its called systematic genocide.
To Joo Kay Singh:
Point well taken. Gurdas Maan might not be aware of all this but when you have films in India you need [edited] up endorsements from people to connect to the masses. To get stuff passed on through indian politics.
Anyways, Gurdas Maan has done more for Sikhs and Punjabi's than you and I can ever do in our lifetime. He promotes love and humanity. What every Sikh should promote. Let the haters be. People make mistakes brother.
Jiyo Babeo!
To Joo Kay Singh:
Point well taken. Gurdas Maan might not be aware of all this but when you have films in India you need [edited] up endorsements from people to connect to the masses. To get stuff passed on through indian politics.
Anyways, Gurdas Maan has done more for Sikhs and Punjabi’s than you and I can ever do in our lifetime. He promotes love and humanity. What every Sikh should promote. Let the haters be. People make mistakes brother.
Jiyo Babeo!
"Khalistan Zindabad"
Heck, never! Hindustan is plenty enough to fit us in.
and 'bark'? Surely, words like that don't befit a 'Kaur'.
“Khalistan Zindabad”
Heck, never! Hindustan is plenty enough to fit us in.
and ‘bark’? Surely, words like that don’t befit a ‘Kaur’.
thanks for sharing that Joo Kay Singh…i'll be sure to forward this link to all my contacts to ensure everyone knows the truth above Gurdas Mann and his support for KPS Gill.
@Indian Sikh, in rerference to KPS Gill, you wrote…
"…in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day"
those that endorse the actions of murderers & rapists are as much to blame for crimes as the perpetrators themselves.
"It is terribly sad that some lives were unnecessarily lost"
'some lives were unnecessarily lost'…shame on you!!!
thanks for sharing that Joo Kay Singh…i’ll be sure to forward this link to all my contacts to ensure everyone knows the truth above Gurdas Mann and his support for KPS Gill.
@Indian Sikh, in rerference to KPS Gill, you wrote…
“…in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day”
those that endorse the actions of murderers & rapists are as much to blame for crimes as the perpetrators themselves.
“It is terribly sad that some lives were unnecessarily lost”
‘some lives were unnecessarily lost’…shame on you!!!
@ Manpreet: "when you have films in India you need … endorsements from people to connect to the masses"
Am I missing the irony in getting an 'endorsement' from a man who orchestrated wholesale carnage in Panjab, in relation to a movie that aims to "portray the suffering of the common man"?
I'd like to give Mann some credit and think he knew exactly who he was standing next to; afterall, Mann has commented on 1984 and the aftermath in his music, and KP wasn't exactly a low-profile guy in Panjab.
@ Manpreet: “when you have films in India you need … endorsements from people to connect to the masses”
Am I missing the irony in getting an ‘endorsement’ from a man who orchestrated wholesale carnage in Panjab, in relation to a movie that aims to “portray the suffering of the common man“?
I’d like to give Mann some credit and think he knew exactly who he was standing next to; afterall, Mann has commented on 1984 and the aftermath in his music, and KP wasn’t exactly a low-profile guy in Panjab.
Joo Kay Singh:
You are right Gill is a bad and evil person. No doubt about that. But Gurdas Maan had a misstep here. Does that mean you ban Gurdas Maan or his lifes work on a photo shoot?
The way he helped out Punjabi Boli and put it on the map . Inspired countless people cannot be thrown away on a photo shoot. We have to get the answer from Gurdas Maan himself on this… thats all the rest of us can all make assumptions.
Jiyo.
Joo Kay Singh:
You are right Gill is a bad and evil person. No doubt about that. But Gurdas Maan had a misstep here. Does that mean you ban Gurdas Maan or his lifes work on a photo shoot?
The way he helped out Punjabi Boli and put it on the map . Inspired countless people cannot be thrown away on a photo shoot. We have to get the answer from Gurdas Maan himself on this… thats all the rest of us can all make assumptions.
Jiyo.
“…in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day”.
I think Indian Sikh is spot on about KPS Gill. He is not some crazed lunatic who was thirsty of the blood of his own people. I am too young to remember this but my parents, uncles, aunts and grandparents have all told me about the bad times in Punjab in the late 80's early 90's. It was not all "balle balle shaava shaava" like it is now.
I think its unfortunate that British Sikh doesn't understand this fact and argues w/ Indian Sikh. The situation was so out of control that innocent people were being killed by these so-called "Sikhs" who only turned to terrorism for weapons, murder and rape. They have caused immense damage to Punjab including murdering the actor, writer, producer and director Veerendra (who would have taken Punjabi cinema to a global level) and Amar Singh Chamkila (one of the most popular singers in Punjabi music history whose songs are still played 20 years after his death). I for one am deeply saddened that innocent people were murdered, but KPS Gill did what he thought was necessary to eradicate terrorism.
Now to Gurdas Maan, a legendary singer who needs to be protected when in public…trust me when I say this that Gurdas Maan doesn't care about security but his safety is paramount and more importantly, is the responsibility of UK Box Office (his promoters).
Also, if we get back to the 'Kirpan and No Sharp objects' topics (which is what we're supposed to be discussing lol), I went to both the Wolverhampton and the Birmingham NEC show. But on both tickets, there were no mentions of sharp objects or kirpans. So I wonder, do the promoters think that just the London crowd are crazy??? lol
“…in terms of his personal actions but as an officer, he did what was the need of the day”.
I think Indian Sikh is spot on about KPS Gill. He is not some crazed lunatic who was thirsty of the blood of his own people. I am too young to remember this but my parents, uncles, aunts and grandparents have all told me about the bad times in Punjab in the late 80’s early 90’s. It was not all “balle balle shaava shaava” like it is now.
I think its unfortunate that British Sikh doesn’t understand this fact and argues w/ Indian Sikh. The situation was so out of control that innocent people were being killed by these so-called “Sikhs” who only turned to terrorism for weapons, murder and rape. They have caused immense damage to Punjab including murdering the actor, writer, producer and director Veerendra (who would have taken Punjabi cinema to a global level) and Amar Singh Chamkila (one of the most popular singers in Punjabi music history whose songs are still played 20 years after his death). I for one am deeply saddened that innocent people were murdered, but KPS Gill did what he thought was necessary to eradicate terrorism.
Now to Gurdas Maan, a legendary singer who needs to be protected when in public…trust me when I say this that Gurdas Maan doesn’t care about security but his safety is paramount and more importantly, is the responsibility of UK Box Office (his promoters).
@ Manpreet. It beggars belief that this was a 'misstep', as you put it. It should be noted that KP Gill hadn't turned up to endorse a run of the mill boy meets girl, have a few dances, fall in love type Panjabi movie – if he had, it could almost be put down to coincidence.
Des Hoya Pardes was supposedly a serious attempt at portraying the post-1984 situation and the "suffering of the common man" as Mann himself puts it. Within that specific context, to then have KP Gill endorse the movie is at best, a gross betrayal of the innocents who died at the behest of Gill and his cronies. At worst, it can be seen as Mann's own endorsement of KP's murderous actions and perhaps even his own sympathy with Gill.
Regardless of which it was, I still believe that Mann doesn't actually care whether the Sikhs in his audience could attend, sabat soorat. All he wants is a crowd. And if that's the case, then all this talk about Mann having "done more for Sikhs and Punjabi’s than you and I can ever do in our lifetime" is just empty chat.
On a similar note, why exactly is Gurdass Mann viewed as a Legend? Seriously. I think he's a very good stage performer, displays lots of energy on stage, has an OK voice (someone on here recently said he was besura) and is a 3rd rate movie actor. Does that count as legendary nowadays?
Also, if we get back to the ‘Kirpan and No Sharp objects’ topics (which is what we’re supposed to be discussing lol), I went to both the Wolverhampton and the Birmingham NEC show. But on both tickets, there were no mentions of sharp objects or kirpans. So I wonder, do the promoters think that just the London crowd are crazy??? lol
some of the people commenting owe it to themselves to listen to his songs and his lyrics. Oh & definately watch his music videos of him dressed up as an indian police officer or other times an indian soldier drinking it up and glorifying caste. Gurdas Mann doesn't and hasn't ever cared about Punjab or Punjabis…if he did he wouldn't promote the two things which are killing Punjab most ALCOHOL & CASTE. Give yourselves the chance of making an educated comment. Not even in Western music or Hindi music do singers promote alcoholism so openly and shamelessly.
…sounds like indian 'sikh' has a couple of names.
[a kaur = kaur = tg = S. Kaur = Indian -?- Sikh = another son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, you are NOT allowed to use multiple handles in The Langar Hall. The practice of sock-puppeting will get you banned. Consider this your one and only warning….Admin Singh]
@ Manpreet. It beggars belief that this was a ‘misstep’, as you put it. It should be noted that KP Gill hadn’t turned up to endorse a run of the mill boy meets girl, have a few dances, fall in love type Panjabi movie – if he had, it could almost be put down to coincidence.
Des Hoya Pardes was supposedly a serious attempt at portraying the post-1984 situation and the “suffering of the common man” as Mann himself puts it. Within that specific context, to then have KP Gill endorse the movie is at best, a gross betrayal of the innocents who died at the behest of Gill and his cronies. At worst, it can be seen as Mann’s own endorsement of KP’s murderous actions and perhaps even his own sympathy with Gill.
Regardless of which it was, I still believe that Mann doesn’t actually care whether the Sikhs in his audience could attend, sabat soorat. All he wants is a crowd. And if that’s the case, then all this talk about Mann having “done more for Sikhs and Punjabi’s than you and I can ever do in our lifetime” is just empty chat.
On a similar note, why exactly is Gurdass Mann viewed as a Legend? Seriously. I think he’s a very good stage performer, displays lots of energy on stage, has an OK voice (someone on here recently said he was besura) and is a 3rd rate movie actor. Does that count as legendary nowadays?
some of the people commenting owe it to themselves to listen to his songs and his lyrics. Oh & definately watch his music videos of him dressed up as an indian police officer or other times an indian soldier drinking it up and glorifying caste. Gurdas Mann doesn’t and hasn’t ever cared about Punjab or Punjabis…if he did he wouldn’t promote the two things which are killing Punjab most ALCOHOL & CASTE. Give yourselves the chance of making an educated comment. Not even in Western music or Hindi music do singers promote alcoholism so openly and shamelessly.
…sounds like indian ‘sikh’ has a couple of names.
[a kaur = kaur = tg = S. Kaur = Indian -?- Sikh = another son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, you are NOT allowed to use multiple handles in The Langar Hall. The practice of sock-puppeting will get you banned. Consider this your one and only warning….Admin Singh]