No Nishan Sahib = No Gurdwara
I often take many trips to Fresno to visit my friends and on this day I was visiting one of their work places. A number of people had told me about the new Gurdwara that was nearby and in seeking to pay my respects to our Guru, I went to pay a visit.
While the building was large and beautiful, something caught my eye (or rather didn’t catch my eye). There was no Nishan Sahib to be found. The first thing that entered my mind was maybe this is NOT a Gurdwara, but rather some Dehra. But as I parked my car, the sign on the building made it clear – GURDWARA NANAKSAR.
After paying my respect to the Guru Granth Sahib, I went outside to ask why a Nishan Sahib was not on the grounds. I respectfully said Fateh to the Bhaiji and asked him this simple question. “Why is there no Nishan Sahib at the Gurdwara?”
The Bhaiji first talked to me about his baba Nand Singh and then went on to talk about how this in fact is not a gurdwara, but rather a dehra, where one can do bhagi and thus no need for a Nishan Sahib.
I understood his logic. This was NOT a Gurdwara, but then why label it a Gurdwara? Why not just be honest with the sangat and call it a dehra? The bhaiji’s answer was that we have to get permits from the City, County etc. thats why we call it a Gurdwara. At this point the bhaiji wanted no more to do with me, said some remarks, and left in a hurry.
Friends for years have told me about the power of the Nanaksar dehra in Fresno and their popularity. Sometimes I wonder is there popularity just because many in our community don’t know that it is NOT a Gurdwara. The number of dehras that have divided our Sikh Panth are too numerous to state. Dehra Sacha Sauda was just the latest in a stream that include: Radha Swamis, Nirankaris, Rara Sahib, Bhekhowal, and the list goes on and on.
This whole issue got me thinking. I went to read the Nanaksar Maryada and on their website it explicitly states, “Nishan Sahib is not erected in any of the Nanaksar Gurdwaras because it is a political symbol or an army flag.” But to say that misses the point. Of course it is not a ‘political symbol’ it is our community symbol. It is the mark of our nation. All should be able to locate the Gurdwara and our Nishan Sahib is that marker.
Why is the Nishan Sahib so important? It is marker of our community. It is the ONLY flag flown at the Gurdwaras and marks the space above any national interest. No other national flag (American, Canadian, Indian, or even Khalistan etc.) has any place at the Gurdwara. The ‘door to our Guru’ is above ANY national considerations. It was Guru Hargobind that first hoisted the Nishan Sahib at the Akal Takht.
Too many of these deras have their own maryada (code of conduct), but often in doing so it only confuses and divides Sikhs. We need to move beyond this. The Panthic Rehat Maryada gives explicit directions about the Nishan Sahib:
At a high-level site in every Gurdwara should be installed the nishan sahib (Sikh flag). The cloth of the flag should be either of xanthic (kesri) or of greyish blue colour and on top of the flag post, there should either be a spearhead or a Khanda.
The Nishan Sahib invites you to the Gurdwara. It delineates its space. Pay your respects that the Nishan Sahib should ever wave faithfully. Realize its importance as a UNIFIER of all Sikhs. We have 1 Nishan Sahib as we are 1 Sikh Nation. If you don’t find a Nishan Sahib at your Gurdwara, question the committee or begin to question if it really is even a Gurdwara.
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Well written article. You have hit the nail on the head.
a similar incident happened to me in 2000 when i visited nairobi’s nanaksar gurudwara. bhai balwinder singh ji rangila was in the country on tour and we were part of the organisers. i was then a clean-shaven guy but had pledged to keep my turban back on and begun to grow my beard again – so my turban looked small and beard looked trimmed. when i first came across the goings on at the gurudwara in the evening diwan, i was confused about their ‘ardas’, lack of nishaan sahib and langar maryada. so after the diwan, i asked the bhai ji there on why ‘their ardas’ was different. taking one stern look at me, he lashed out, ‘what ardas? how is it different!’ it was an innocent question as i asked in humility, but was caught unawares on the bhai ji’s response. i was also confused about the lion skins, guru granth sahib ji being recited behind locked doors and all that i was not accustomed to see in the ‘regular’ gurudwaras.
the bhai ji then had a go at me and rudely said,’ tusi amrit shakeya? jao pehla apni sikhi nu sudhaar ke aoo, pher aapa tudhaday swala da jawaab davanagey!’
i was young and i wanted to learn but i was brought down to tears with the way i was spoken to. when rangila ji found out about the incident, he too the bhai ji into a corner and reprimanded him for the way he spoke to me. he reminded him that his job was to humbly inspire the youth and not discourage them. i overheard all that rangila ji told him.
nevertheless, i came out of the incident wiser. i had no misgivings about the nanaksar maryada, in fact, i hold them in high regard. i still go there once in a while, though some of the questions still remain, i no longer have the urge to try and understand as i am now amritdhari and i have the sikh rehat maryada which i endeavour to follow, just like any other amritdhari. i am now at peace with myself, though i can never forget what happened that night. all i know is that i would never speak to anyone in such a manner like the bhai ji spoke to me – for i know how it feels for an earnest learner.
Urm… interesting subject. One that is not a new debate.
Err…
Jithe(h) jaye(h) buhe(h) mera satguru so(h) thaan suhaava…
so where the guru resides who gives a monkey’s if there is a nishaan sahib or not. (woah I’m so gonna get slaughtered for that)
Um on a serious note though my above comment is rather impolite and tinged with sarcasm even, it is meant to say… “shouldn’t we just overlook minor inflictions and be so totally grateful for the fact that someone has created a place of worship instead of a casino / strip club / etc etc??? Let’s put things into perspective. Bring it into the 21st century.
As an aside, It would be really good to learn about the origins of the Nishaan sahib, it’s original purpose. It would also be Good to learn about the “panthic Rehat Maryada” and of its origins. Who wrote the edicts? Knowing this will bring another sense of perspective to the conversation.
bhull chuck maaf karni.
(ps. even if you don’t forgive me… I won’t lose any sleep over my comment)
P
Um… I know my comments seem rather rude… but I’m hoping that some of you will see beyond the stupidity (because it is just cheekiness – not a wish to put anyone down) and that you will read into the comment and offer suitable suggestions.
Okay seriously – apologies for any offence and on a final note… Great website!
idiot, the answer, in my opinion is no. While it is possible to respect all places of worship, I think a delineation is important, particularly when someone misuses a phrase. Just as a gurdwara is not a church or temple, a dehra is not a gurdwara. This is the same reason a Christian != a Buddhist, etc. I can respect a synagogue and the function it serves, but that doesn’t mean that I conflate it with my own faith — does that make sense? Sikhi has, in my opinion, very few requirements or symbols relative to other faith traditions, but the evolution of those requirements happened in the context of a rich and often difficult history.
Re: your question about the panthic Rehit, it was written by the Sarbat Khalsa in the 1920s. [Someone, please correct me if this is incorrect -- I'm writing quickly and might gloss over things] After the installation of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (SGGS) as the “Living Guru and Word of God,” Guru Gobind Singh Ji left the temporal authority of the faith in the Granth and Panth, the former referring to SGGS Ji, the latter referring to the community of Sikhs. Through a series of conversations and democratic gatherings (via representatives elected by sangats and letters), the Sikh Rehit Maryada (or “Panthic Maryada”) was written in the 1920s to provide a unified “code of conduct” among the many different interpretations and Sikh traditions that had evolved over the previous 200 years. There were maryadas that were more strict, and some that were less strict — this one provides the most basic requirements of the Sikh faith. There’s also a mechanism for amending the Rehit, so long as it does not conflict with the teachings within the SGGS Ji (the Word of God, of course, being more valuable than the decisions of humans). This concept of the panth, or the Khalsa, underlies the community-oriented vision of prayer, education, and service within Sikhi.
Camille you stole some words right out of my mouth…
Lakhvir Singh Ji… It looks like we had the same sort of experience, the babaji was not initially rude or mad, but after I asked the question his tone did change and at the end he straight just walked away in the middle of the conversation.
Idiot Ji… On the history and importance of the Nishan Sahib here is a PDF that was used at a kids camp earlier this year. More info also on Sikh History site.
My reason for writing this post was not to just criticize one particular dhera or to draw attention to one Sikh symbol. What bothers me is the bigger fact that are working on not being one large Sikh Qaum, but smaller groups that serve us best. This is where all these dheras and Sant babe come into the picture. What is it that some Sant Baba can offer you that you can’t get from the Guru Granth Sahib? All Gurdwaras have a lot of issues (mainly people’s own politics) in the diaspora. The Gurdwara being the main place for the community to gather it serves as the center of Sikh life. It is one institution that is associated with Sikhs no matter where you go in the world, it would be nice to see all of them as being the same. Someone told me Langar is also not part of the Nanaksar dheras, or they don’t have a kitchen at the Gurdwara (I’m not too familiar with this and haven’t read up on it so I will not comment) if anyone knows, please elaborate.
Gotta GO! I will finish my comment later and write about the Rehit Maryada question…
“Someone told me Langar is also not part of the Nanaksar dheras, or they don’t have a kitchen at the Gurdwara (I’m not too familiar with this and haven’t read up on it so I will not comment) if anyone knows, please elaborate.”
Firstly, what does the term Dhera mean and where does it originate from?
Secondly, I grew up going to Nanaksar Gurdwara and Langar ran 24/7. I don’t know if this is common practice at all Nanaksar Gurdwaras (I say Gurdwaras because the Guru resides there) – You can tell me if the term Gurdwara is associated explicitly with the presence of the Nishaan Sahib, but to me the Guru Granth Sahib presides. For if there was no Guru – what would be the point of the Nishan?
I accept that our sixth Guru may have erected the nishan sahib as a calling to all Sikhs – I have no issues with this practice. I have no moral / spiritual issues with the Nishan Sahib. Nor with this conversation. I just wish we could take a global view of what’s going on in the world and keep things in perspective when considering highlighting such ‘issues’.
A gurdwara is only different to a church in that it houses a different form of worship to God.
“What is it that some Sant Baba can offer you that you can’t get from the Guru Granth Sahib?”
Nothing. But they can point me to the direction of the Guru Granth sahib. See we are so far removed historically from Sikhi that we’ve lost connections and sometimes those who are spiritually inclined can point us back in the right direction. I’m not saying go deliver your family jewels to mahapurakh. I’m not even saying listen to them, it’s your call if you choose this route or not. I’m not saying that the position of mahapurakh hasn’t been abused by some who are clearly not spiritually inclined but who seek glory. All I request is that all sant are not painted with the same brush. okay we are in different waters now – and I don’t’ want to get into this debate.
As for unity – the practices of our Guru sahibaan evolved from Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhi progressed it developed. It wasn’t static. The one thing that was static was the underlying constant devotion to GOD. Spirituality. The practice of bhagat kabeer ji was different to bhagat fareed ji and in turn to Guru Gobind singh ji. Bhagat’s were not warriors but their bani is recognised in Sikhi.
The underlying point of this rather consuming and rambling essay is – Tolerance, Yes understand difference – differentiate if you need to – but tolerate and accept. I’m sorry I haven’t read your comments thoroughly and you’ve probably answered a lot of my queries / comments already.
I shall not be continuing this conversation. I have learned as much as I need to. I hope my ‘contribution’ was helpful in some way even if to affirm your own ideas.
ps. The ji doesn’t really work after idiot.
P
Idiot JI ,
I find the Ji after Idiot not to be without a certain charm and honesty, as many whom I feel compelled to call ‘Ji’ indeed act like idiots. And, in your case, perhaps ‘Idiot’ is merely a nom de plume and, not, in fact, what you are.
Guru Ji resided in our home where I grew up, but no one ever called our family home a gurdwara for that reason. And our kitchen was always open, no one was ever turned away, although over the years some pretty disreputable characters showed up and many even stayed for a night or two. Except for a very short experiment, we always sat on the floor to eat. More than once, someone jokingly suggested that we hoist the nihan sahib and call our home a gurdwara. But no one ever suggested it could even jokingly be called a gurdwara without one.
‘mai Harinder Kaur ji’
I accept your point of view. There are many loopholes in my ‘theory’, I could nit-pick at yours too but I see little point.
The only comment I would make in response to yours is that there are many activities that take place in the home which are not synonomous with worship. My grandfather too had Mahraaj parkaash in his home and we never called it a Gurdwara – because it was not solely a place of worship.
anyway… hey-ho, we could go around in circles talking about this. Whilst I can see merit in the POV re: the importance of the presence of the Nishaan Sahib at a Gurdwara, I’m not wholely swayed by the argument.
re my name… no I really am an idiot. Thank you for your kindness in acknowledging otherwise.
ps. My comment is open to mis-interpretation. So I’ll just reiterate the underlying point in all of my above ramblings – I presonally feel that the discussion is academic considering there are more pressing issues that we as Sikhs need to deal with. I hope this explains my inclination.
God Bless
Gurudwara with a Nishan Sahib or without one, does it changes the fact that we just go to the Gurudwara as a ritual. Does Nishan Sahib being there helps us understand Sikhi better? Or Nishan Sahibs absence adds to our spiritual learning disabilities?
A couple of things:
First, Pendu, perhaps going to gurdwara is just a ritual to you. If so, I am sorry that you are missing something wonderful. I think one purpose of flying the nishan sahib is to joyfully and proudly proclaim, ‘We’re Sikhs and we’re here!’
But those, to me, are side issues.
What on earth has happened to us Sikhs? Growing up, I remember us as being, mostly, happy, lively people with a great joie de vivre, argumentative, sure, but not taking ourselves so [expletive deleted] seriously.
We all have better things to do, our ‘matters of consequence’(see The Little Prince) to attend to, than argue ‘minor’ points about Sikhi.
But I remember while I was growing up, my Gursikh Daddy would argue heatedly – bellowing, even (Daddy was a world-champion bellower) for hours – even days or years – with his rabbi friend about some obscure point about something, then they’d go off and eat some good Punjabi snacks and laugh their heads off.
Or Daddy and I would debate whether Ogdan Nash or Emily Dickinson was a better poet. Silly stuff. But it added to the fabric and texture of our lives. Made us richer human beings.
Here we talk about nishan sahib. In another forum, someone is wondering if a handsome turbaned Sikh in a tasteful poster is somehow changing our religious article into a commodity. Take a look for yourself. You can even hear the sardar speak.
http://www.kennethcole.com/default.asp?
Can’t we lighten up a bit? We are taking ourselves entirely too seriously, IMO. I know there are things to be taken very seriously, but in Sikhi, there should always be an undertone, a clear undercurrent of joy, of chardi kala.
What happened to us?
To me, that is no mystery. 1984 – and thereafter – happened to us. But must we let those horrible events change us into gloomy, sad people who can’t look at ourselves with a little lightness and humour? I, at least, am resolved to live in chardi kala. I’m not going to let our enemies defeat my spirit. Again to quote my Dad:
‘When your enemy has his boot in your face, his knife at your throat and his gun at your temple, you laugh at him. “You can kill me, but you can’t defeat me!” That’s chardi kala. That’s what it means to be a Sikh.’
For those who don’t know me, I do not brush off the events of 1984 lightly. My entire nuclear family attained shaheedi in Delhi. I alone survived. Let us honour our martyrs by reviving the spirit of love of life that has long made being a Sikh a joy.
I’m afraid I have strayed far afield here and should maybe not publish this comment.
I’m going to leave it, though, and hope some of the ideas will reach someone in a positive way!
Chardi kala!
Mai
While Mai Harinder Kaur’s suggestion is well received, I believe that intellectual engagement and dialogue can be ‘fun’ and helps one maintain chardikala. In that spirit, I continue…
Dear Pendu,
You are right about the need for greater spiritual learning at the Gurdwara. Hopefully that will be a new blog subject. The subject about the Nishan Sahib is something different. The Nishan Sahib tells on WHERE they are. Your question involves the WHY they have come and maybe WHAT they get out of it. So let’s first address the WHERE they are here and find another space to begin address the critical other issues of WHY and WHAT. Each are important and have their own uses and needs.
People fail to understand that our faith is an empowerment ideology, a truth revolution, a universal love movement, as well as a spiritual liberator.
If Nanaksar sangat people do not believe in Nishan Sahibs for Gurdwaras, they could stop wearing kirpans, dastaars, and karas, as these are also our nishaans, and our body is the essential gurdwara. The fact is, when you research Sikh history, the nishaan has been prevalent for the identification of Guru Nanak’s dharmshalas since 1499.
All Khalsa forces established their forts with the Khalsa nishaan, and every Gurdwara is a bhagti house and a shakti house. Any bhagti house, tthaath, or dera, which does not have the nishaan of the Khalsa panth, will not have the shakti or universal support of the Guru.
The Sikh Nation is a distinct entity, outside any type of borders, and the nishaan is the declaration of this fact. The phrase “Nanaksar Bhagti Da Ghar” gives the connotation that a “bhagti da ghar” cannot be a “shakti da ghar” and cannot have a nishaan. This is absolutely false. Even Sachkhand Sri Harimandir Sahib has a nishaan sahib, and Takhat Sri Akaal Bunga Sahib has a suroop of Guru Granth Sahib ji.
Anybody who fails to understand the activist and spiritual, warrior/poet, sant/sipahi ideology of Sikhi will try to excuse deras which compromise on rehit, but the fact remains that “raaj bina neh dharam chalein hain, dharam bina sabh daley maley hain.” Without social,economic,political and mental sovereignty, the practice of faith cannot be established. And without the practice of faith, everything is mired in conflict and filth.
Mai, is there something that undermines the spirit of chardi kala by engaging in meaningful conversation around the simple questions that Sikhs, particularly Sikhs in the diaspora, face daily? I ask because these are the “small” questions that helped me and my peers refine our sense of strength, our understanding, and our sense of community when we were undergraduates in college. We all came from different backgrounds, and our parents had all communicated Sikhi in different ways.
In this way, identifying the ‘borders’ or ‘definitions’ of Sikhi, including its physical spaces (gurdwaras) seems like a useful exercise. I like to think we’ve had a number of “light” or “happy” posts, but clearly there’s some bias on my part
Alternatively, the image of the “laughing Sikh” has often been used in mainstream (desi) images to undermine the idea that Sikhs are also thoughtful or reflective; in many ways, such a limitation of scope reinforces a stereotype that has been used to historically undermine our community.
What kind of topics would you like to see addressed? Because we hope to encourage dialogue on this site, I know I appreciate your feedback, so I would like to hear more. If not hear, perhaps via email (camille@thelangarhall.com).
Nanaskar has largely become very strange. In some “gurdwaras” they put up a barrier between the women and mens side in the lobby. whens you go into the diwan, again, it’s seperated. They do not do ardas, they have their own.
I have seen a Nanaksar Gurdwara where they keep SGGS behind a curtain while people blindly matha-dekh to the curtain while keertan goes on.
They place photos of their Guru Nanak re-incarnates besides the SGGS.
But really, what is the desired outcome?
Oh, dear, I have been misunderstood! Completely!
I love this site and the open expression of ideas I find here.
I think talking about these things is wonderful and important. My point about The Little Prince was that the man who had ‘matters of consequence’ to attend to had lost sight of what really mattered.
That was also why I referred to ‘minor’ issues instead of minor issues. These are important. And discussing them is good. I was being a little sarcastic because ‘Idiot ‘ had said that he had learned all that he could from this discussion and then said that we Sikhs had more important things to discuss.
We can discuss things seriously without losing perspective and with our joy intact. I know because I grew up that way. We argued, sometimes passionately, but there was a kind of spirit there that I love, I call it chardi kala.
This image that Bollywood has fostered is disgusting. We are not buffoons and should not be taken as such. But neither should we be sour and joyless. And neither should we be harsh in our judgements of each other
I enjoy these discussions and very much want them to continue. I would like to see us relax a little and enjoy being Sikhs. I am still not expressing myself well. I think I had best stop before I totally paint myserlf into a corner. I would even say, don’t take me too seriously.
Chardi kala!
Mai Harinder Kaur jee,
You didnot get my point I guess. I wrote what I see happening in Gurudwaras. And to a lot (if not most) it has just become a ritual to go to Gurudwara (every Sunday). To many, Gurudwara with or without Nishan Sahib makes no difference. And I’m not perfect so I include myself when I write as we. If you have attained that perfect state, then congrats to you and hopefully I can learn a lot from you. Well, I can never under play the importance of Nishan Sahib. I guess I think weird so you could not get what I meant.
And Mewa Singh jeeo, thanks for understanding what I wanted to say.
Gur Bar Akaal….
Considering the word Gurdwara means ‘door to the Guru,’ it’s thoughtless to forget the one body that brings us all together – our beloved Guru; Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.
Reading the posts above, it’s shocking that there’s been no mention detailing the respect, sewa and submissive nature to which the Guru is shown in every Nanaksar Thath across the world. This characteristic, not the nishan sahib, langar, paath, katha or ardas is what defines Nanaksar. But, unfortunately people nowadays are very quick to judge and often post topics without taking the time to understand the principals to which our foundation is -and forever will be- based on; solely the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Anyway, it’s unfortunate that “Jodha” has tried to create a divide in todays panth by going as far as stating that Nanaksar has done Sikhi some kind of disservice when in actuality they’ve birthed some of the greatest jewels to come and channel the panth in a positive direction. Let us not forget the contributions of Gurdev Singh Koenke (Akal Thakth Jathedar), Prof. Darshan Singh (Akal Thakth Jathedar & Raagi), Bhai Harbans Singh Ji (Raagi), Harbans Singh Doabia (Sikh Scholar) and many more…
Finally, just to clear up some other matters in this topic.
In conclusion, in a time when our Panth is in disarray and we have clowns imitating our father (Kalgidhar Patshah), there are definitely more important things to focus on. Personally, I’ll never discuss the issue of Raagmala with anyone until I have been blessed enough to complete a full recitation of Maharajs bani, and in that same way, I wouldn’t have had the heart to approach the ‘baba’ as Jodha did and criticize him until I myself, wake up at 3am everyday to recite Sri Sukhmani Sahib, Asa Di War, and Panj Bania da Paath. But then again, that’s the state of youth nowadays.
‘Idiot Ji’ had a lot of valid points, and I’ll end with the same Tukh from Gurbani which he shared: “Jithe(h) jaye(h) buhe(h) mera satguru so(h) thaan suhaava” (Wherever my True Guru resides, that place alone is beautiful/marvelous)
When your Guru is present and treated like the embodiment of our Ten Gurus, how (in such a setting) is it possible to criticize this place?
Shardaloo, your critique is eloquent, but it is clear that there is a disagreement in what defines Sikhi or constitutes a Sikh. You’re right that devotion to SGGSJi, sewa, etc., are key elements of Sikhi. Along with that, there are key and agreed upon rules of behavior that also guide Sikhi. It does the faith and the panth a disservice to amalgamize these differences and pretend that the only requirement is belief in the 10 Gurus and the SGGSJi. This is the beginning of the path, not the final destination. And, in the process of defining that path and its attributes, there are elements that are emblematic — for example, kes, but also, nishan. Sikhs are a nation, and the nishan is our flag, the rehat our uniform/code, and the SGGSJi our guide.
Dear Pendu Ji – and Everyone,
I have put my foot in my mouth again. I did totally misunderstand and misread your purpose. Please accept my deepest apology. I shall try to understand better in the future.
Because of my physical limitations these days, going to gurdwara or really any place is an event for me.
And I have been out of circulation most of the time since late in 1984, first from trauma, and since 2006 from stroke. Consequently, I am having to do a great deal of relearning about the courtesy we all extend to each other. Please be patient with me, as an eccentric older sister or a not really too old (I’m 55) auntie.
And please just call me Mai, which has been my nickname since the day I was born. Yes, there’s a story there. Usually when people call me Harinder Kaur, they’re either government officials or angry with me.
Love and chardi kala!
Mai, TINT
its funny Nanaksari’s always get crazy defending this…its bullshit. No Nishan Sahib, No Langar, Seperate Ardass..point is call it a dera admit it and stop bullshitting North American Sikhs go to the Nanaksar deras in Punjab they are driving Sikhs away…so Please.
this is on another note…can everyone stop with thease weird goodbyes..just say Sat Sri Akal..i guess i like controversy =)
do accept my apologies but i am appalled at some of the comments here that hold so much contempt for ideals and ideas that do not necessarily agree with others. where does our humility, tolerance and love come to test? right here. we must be at peace with ourselves. if there are things that disagree with us, we need to approach the guru’s way, not our own manmat ones. agreed that the nanaksar maryada is different from the panthic one, but we should leave it at that. let them go on with what they believe on and we go on with ours. a day will come when our individual strengths will be called for a single goal. bhul chuk maaf ji.
JSD, thanks for epitomizing the ignorance we’re all trying to work against. And, to say they’re driving Sikhs away, that’s idiotic man… print from Sri Akal Thakth itself states that Nanaksar has administered Amrit to way over 1,000,000. Also, langar is forever present; just because they don’t have a kitchen doesn’t mean there isn’t any langar –another baseless claim, the sangat have assigned dates to bring the food.
Whatever though, if you need any guidance before visiting the Gurdwara, ask Maharaj for guidance… if it’s positive go ahead, if it’s not, keep your distance.
I don’t want to get into a debate, but like I said before, we all need to work on viewing the world through the eyes of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji instead of viewing Maharaj through the tainted eyes of this world.
I guess the next onslaughts going to be regarding how Nanaksar doesn’t place a golak for the sangat to place their dasvand kamai? Or have a ten-person ‘committee’ to help run something so simple?
That’s my final piece, peace.
http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3337/2007-06-06.html
Harnam Singh Dhumma = Jathedhar of Damdami Thaksal (Sant Jarnail Singhs nephew) and during my many personal conversations with him, he’s expressed nothing but the utmost respect for Nanaksar.
Langar is a community event, in which everyone takes part in it making it with love and humility AT the Gurudwara. And in the case of asking Maharaj, my Maharaj sits on a takht in the Gurudwara….teray Nanaksar vich..who shall i bow my head to? the Pictures of Nand singh and Isher Singh? or Guru Ji or your Nanaksari leaders…
Paanth the Nishaan vi nahin hai…
Isher Singh used to preach Sikhism, considered a great man by many he would set up his dera people would bring him food and what not and then he would move on and not want anything to do with his “temporary” dera. Then Idiots starting making Gurudwaras on those spots and then suddenly they were like oh he didnt have Nishan Sahib so our Gurudwaras wont, theres no Nand Singh or Isher Singh now…you can make langar in the “Gurudwara” it wont kill you. Look how hard you all try to back up Nanaksar ehni effort lah ke..go to the Gurudwara and follow the Guru’s Maryada.
You’re an idiot, if you want to make a change, start with Punjab. I can get you in touch with the right people (if you like). I’m done with your hypocrisy, work on your own nishanis and go from there. The majority of your final paragraph is untrue as it was Baba Isher Singh Ji who established the first Nanaksar Gurdwara.
Nanaksar doesn’t have a Guru Granth Sahib Ji? You’re hilarious, there were over 1300 Sampuran Akand Paaths (w/ Sri Japji Sahib) carried out this past Gurpurb (on Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jis Janam Diwas) just at Nanaksar alone. But, I guess any TUKH recited outside of what’s deemed ‘acceptable’ to you is worthless? Really bro, look at the big picture: meat being served in Maharajs presence, people removing our Bhagats bani, even the Guruship of the Adi Granth is being disputed!
Whatever though, I’m still getting started on Maharaj’s road, and hopefully we’ll meet when we’ve both reached our destinations. Just to be clear, treating the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the incarnation of our ten Gurus (atma and roop) is the keystone of my journey, and I’ve yet to see the Guru handled with as much respect in any Gurdwara as is done at Nanaksar.
If you disagree fine, but the masses will tell you otherwise. The sampuran/real Guru’s Maryada has been transcribed by both Shaheed Mani Singh Ji and Bhai Choppah* Singh Ji. Pick up a few books and you’ll see that the Sikhi we know today is a lot different than how it was in the early eighteenth century.
But then again, every claim you make is baseless, and stating facts rather than personal opinion makes me seem ‘desperate?’ lol… thanks for the conversation, I’m done with you and this topic.
Shardaloo and JSD
Take a step back and relax. Shardaloo, no matter what you say, you cannot change the way people think. They have formed their opinion, based on the (mis)information they have been told since they were little and they start to be judgemental based on that little knowledge.
And JSD, you believe in Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee Maharaaj. Me too and I am sure Shardaloo also does the same. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee Maharaaj also says “Mithbolada jee, Har Sajaan Swami Mora; Hoon Samal Thaki jee Ooh Kadi Na Bole Kauda”. I do not have to explain what that means. Be practical and do not be a hypocrite. If you read the Bani, then try to lead life as Bani says. You can say the same stuff using better words without hurting others. And no one is asking you to visit a Gurudwara if you do not wish to. As far as I am concerned, I go to every place where there is Guru Sahib. And if there are pictures there, I am doing Matha Tek to my Guru. Guru knows that. So what difference does it makes . None to me.
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Well I go to Nanaksar in Ontario. When I asked the questions why isn’t there a Nishan Sahib or why isn’t there langer served everyday?
The answers I recieved where quite interesting and I understood why.
But I’m not sure if it is the right answer. The Nishan Sahib was orginal for the sikhs back in the days when we had to hide in the forest from enemies. So we put up a Nishan Sahib so other sikhs could identity that we were there. And to come there. Now we dont have a reason to hide, so Nanaksar doesnt put one up. We no matter where we are, we are able to identity a Gurudwara, whether that be in Canada, United States, United Kingdom, India, etc.
I have a question for everyone and I dont mean it in a rude way. But does having a Nishan Sahib mean that it is a real gurudwara? I mean if I put one up anywhere, would you consider it a real gurudwara? If I put one up infront of my house, would you consider it a gurudwara? No right, because you don’t need to go anywhere to search for god. God is everywhere, So no matter where you go, God will be there.
Nanaksars’ beliefs are from the olden days, from Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
So the reason that I got for not having langer is, one of our Guru’s which was Guru Nanak Dev Ji, said if God wants you to eat, he would bring food to you, and you dont have to go searching for it. Be humble and God would help you through everything. That is why people make langer for pooranmashi. Nanaksar doesnt ask for people to bring food or give them money, because when you bow towards Guru Granth Sahib Ji why do you put down money? Thats isnt right to do. I dont understand why people question God. So what if there isnt food there everyday, that doesnt mean its not a real gurudwara. And why is it the first question I always heard about Nanaksar is why dont they have food? Is that all the reason why people go to the gurudwara? To eat?
Im not trying to be rude or offend anyone, Im just saying why are Sikhs fighting with their own people. God said he didnt want sects within his religion, so why are people from Nanaksar called Nanaksarias and People that go to Dixie Gurudwara called, Dixans ? I dont understand the reason to question what God is doing.
Sorry if I have offend people, But some people point fingers at why Nanaksar doesnt have langer or a Nishan Sahib. I dont feel happy that at a gurudwara I have been going to for about 17 years how has soo many issues and they didnt question any other gurudwaras or people. If you dont go to Nanaksar because of those reasons, I believe you should think somethings through, because it is not fair how they are been treated soo poorly.
Thank you for allowing me to express myself.
wahe guru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fathey
i live in abbotsford bc and evrey pooran mashi i go there and i do kirtan on the stage my great grandpa meet the head baba mihan singh ji baba isher singh ji baba nand singh ji and he did alot of seva of those sant so did my grandpa and he still is evrey one knows us at every nanaksar because of that now nanaksar is the gurudwara who does not take money for kirtan but in india they dont take matatake money NO GOLAKE nanaksar GURUDWARA is indeed a gurudwara it does not matter about a nishan sahib or not because where the guru sahib is thats a gurudwara no matter if they have a golake or no have a nishan sahib or no or chairs in the langar or sitting on the floor singhs put up nishan sahibs in the yaad of shree guru gobind singh ji and nanaksar people are not soilders but saints so it more basied on gurbani and whereing white clothes gurudwars are usually wearing orange and blue and do gatka so you all all people out there to how say its wrong its right and eating langar on chairs or on the floor does not matter eaither some people says ur sitting on top of god and eating but when guru nanak dev ji tured mucca mudina around and he said god is evreywhere so when u eat at hopme then ur still on top of god uhhhhhh so thats why i respect all gurudwaras and all gurus singhs and mahapursh and saints and ur not a singh or kaur till ur amrit sake because that is a true singh or kaur who takes amrit but dont do it by force when the guru gobind singh ji will call u
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fathey
kk im sorry it tempted me me they recitie guru granth sahib ji behind close doors no they dont they change the ramala sahibs guru gobind singh ji said treat guru granth sahib ji as a living guru so did guru gobind singh ji change in front of people and girls NONONONONONO so that is why they they do a curtain or doors when they change ramala sahibs im not mad just telling and they add more stuff so guru sahb can listen to and get our bente
gurfatey
Nanaksar does not have a lineage from the time of Guru Nanak. Many in the Nanaksar retell this myth.
The post does not mean that God does not exist at a Nanaksar Dehra, at a Masjid, or even a Church. It just means it is not a Sikh Gurdwara, propagating Sikh values in their entirety. This discussion has much more to do with allegiance to the Panth, than the merits of their individual organizations (although in general I am AGAINST all dehras, despite the individual acts of great seva that some of their members/founder may or may not partake). Your house cannot be a Gurdwara because that is not where the Sadh Sangat and the Guru come together.
Changing the rumalas of the Guru Granth Sahib is the same as women changing their clothes in public? I don’t think I have a response to that.
im not saying god is not in a majid or church or gurudwara or mandir but hes evreywhere not only a religous worship place and if u put a maharaj sroop at ur house its a gurudwara at the time its there and i said that did guru gobind singh ji CHANGE HIS CLOTHES IN PUBLIC AND INFRONT OF GIRLS NO so guru granth sahib ji is a living guru and where u do seva to guru granth sahib ji and people is a gurudwara no matter what god is evreywhere not in one place and what is wrong with derahs uhhhhhhhhhh there is a maharaj de bede there to isnt there
gurfathey
and there is langar at NANAKSAR GURUDWARA evreyday
and a nishan sahib also means FREE FOOD but baba nand singh ji said there is langar but come here to do bhagti or seva in a langar yes u may eat but eat less and do more seva
Marcus your comments are complete bogus.
You know what singhstyle all this rubbish going about nanaksar IS ALL RUBBISH. Accept the truth and live with it if i put a nishan sahib infront of my house mmmmm would you think it is a gurudwara so NANAKSA IS A GURUDWARA!!!!!!!!!!!! If you still don’t believe me then i don’t know but let me make it clear NANAKSAR GURUDWARA IS A GURUDWARA AND THAT’S THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marcus – writing in caps doesn’t make your argument any better, it just makes you seem more desperate.
The Nishan Sahib is the nishani of a Gurduara. Nanaksar is a dehra, not a Sikh Gurduara.
Your house is not a Gurduara because there is no sangat there. It is just your house.
Singhstyle by doing caps i am making it clear that NANAKSAR IS A GURUDWARA. Plus I am not desperate you people have no good reson so your making things up. Also how would you know it wasn’t a gurudwara some gurudwaras sometimes have no sagat for a couple of days or one or two and nanaksar has it 24 hrs a day. I don’t know what place you live but I am talking about the nanaksar gurudwara in richmond B.C. Canada they also have langar all the time and I don’t need to back anything up because evreything that the people are saying is a BIG FAT LIE!!!!!!!!!
o and by the way the maryada at nanaksar has so much more respect and the kirtan and aarati are so peaceful when kids like I go on the stage and do kirtan and the style is more understandable.
Spoken by a true believer. Thus sayeth the chamcha.
Singhstyle i dont even have a idiot type of guess what your saying
Let me help you. I called you a chamcha (literally a “spoon”, but means you are a kiss-up) of Baba’s dehra (dehra meaning not a Gurduara).
Calm the heck down nanaksar is a gurudwara your right I am a chamcha okay anways I know what a chamcha is and a dhera is but I did not get what the hell you were saying. Plus if you think I am a chamcha of guru ji yes thanks because I am
Well no one is replying back so I guess you all accept the truth and I hope you do Singhstyle.
No, you’re not right, and nobody is accepting your truth. Its just that there’s no point arguing with you.
Yeah that’s right accept it you and all the people who said all that to NANAKSAR GURDWARA epcially singhstyle.
O and by the way maybe not 10 or 12 people on this site but evreyone else at nanaksar and everey other nanaksar gurudwara will be on the side of truth which is mine.
Hey Marcus, you dont know anything. Your just a kid my friend. You can use all the caps lock you like but no ones going to change the way they think. But seriously you are yet to learn buddy, your just a kid right now and dont know nothing!
hey guys im sorry, the comment before mine was not actually singhstyle but me. i dont kno why i posted that but yea, my apologies. marcus sanghera and singhstyle you guys may continue with what you were talking about.
Well evreyone has to face the truth someday and I guess I shut all those nonsense mouths that were open and that were talking about NANAKSAR GURUDWARA thats what you call the truth.
Marcus you’re an idiot, but at some point, no one cares to talk to you. Having the last message on a board, doesn’t mean you shut anyone up. Go bow to your baba.
Listen you little ass your the biggest idiot if you don’t want to talk to me I don’t give a crap! But what are you saying go bow to your baba like do you mean baba nand singh ji or one of the gurus because thanks I always did I do and always will. If you don’t care do you think I give a crap of your stinkin comments I don’t come on this stupid website to listen to your rubbish I come on to fill peoples heads with the truth now your going to ask 1000 questions no one wants you to come on and such. But guess what I DON’T GIVE A DAMM ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS. O and the truth is always bitter you go suck the devil’s ass and I’ll go bow to guru nanak dev ji and then guru gobind singh ji then guru granth sahib ji all the nanaksar sants and the ten gurus while you go suck the devil HAVE FUN! O AND DON’T WORRY I WILL.
O and by the way vizio this is a argument that we can’t just let go and I am not even arguing with you. You just think that because I am against you guys and because I’m on the side of truth now your going to say you aren’t but I don’t care and now your going to say but you are but i don’t care
yes bowdown to your sants, especially when it is against the philosophies of the Gurus and explicitly is against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib. oh well, contradictions are hardly a new things at the nanaksar dehra
Hey listen you little ass baba nanad singh ji taught us about guru nanak dev ji at that time evreyone forgot how to respect guru granth sahib ji and by the way guru nanak dev ji said respect all religions. O and baba nand singh ji even got darshan of guru nanak dev ji and guru gobind singh ji. But have you your not even worth his foot you have not even got the darshan of guru ji and your trying to say that I wouldn’t even spit on him now your going to say yeah thats right but let me tell you something at least he was a sikh and singh. You proboly used to go to sants and fakirs and to mandir pandits for your fortune and to pray to them. That time there were only those people there was no sant from the religion sikhism. O and when baba nand singh ji would sit in the NANAKSAR GURUDWARA darbar in the evning he had this lower level type of place to sit and he would say Mein tai sagant to ve nema ah meaning I am even smaller than the sagat I can only sit here. Now your going to say well he was but HE WASN’T so go kiss the devil’s ass.
o and one more thing
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA!
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA!
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA!
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA!
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA!
NANAKSAR GURUDWARA IT IS NOT A DEHRA!
AND I’M NOT DESPERATE YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!
To all participants, grow up! As the level of discussion continues to deteriorate, comments are now disabled