Turban Warfare or Racist Warfare (courtesy of the NY Post)?
This past Sunday, violence erupted in an ongoing conflict between rival factions at the Gurdwara Baba Makhan Shah Lobana in Richmond Hill, Queens, the heart of New York’s Sikh community. Large kirpans as well as cricket bats and balls were used in the fighting. Dozens of community members and “leaders” were injured, and seven men were arrested.
Sunday was the escalation of an ongoing power struggle between leadership factions in the Richmond Hill Sikh community. There have been many violent incidents in the last several months at this Gurdwara (which itself was born out a violent conflict at the original Richmond Hill Gurdwara, the Sikh Cultural Society), resulting in a regular police presence there.
I don’t claim to understand the reasons behind the conflict at this Gurdwara, nor do I really care. This type of behavior is inexcusable and unjustifiable. And it is far too common in our community, and in particular, in our houses of worship. Much deeper discussions and interventions are needed about violence in our Gurdwaras than I will go into here.
That being said, as a follow up to Navdeep’s post about Sikhs and the Media yesterday, I want to focus on the news coverage of this incident in Richmond Hill. The New York Post* (one of NYC’s biggest newspapers with over 525,000 print copies sold daily) broke the story with this headline on Monday: Queens Turban Warfare: Sword-Wielding Sikhs attack praying rivals.
The article states:
A holy war erupted yesterday at a Sikh temple in Queens — where worshippers wielding swords and cricket bats interrupted a prayer session to attack their rivals in a vicious power struggle, police and witnesses said.
Using catch phrases like “Turban Warfare,” “Sword-Wielding Sikhs,” and “holy war,” the New York Post perpetuates every stereotype in the book about our community and more specifically, men who wear turbans. This article takes us right back to the drawing board with popular perceptions of Sikhs in the United States, in spite of all the important educational and advocacy work we, along with our Muslim, Arab, and South Asian brothers and sisters, have been doing to challenge bigotry since 9/11.
This kind of news coverage is perhaps even more shameful than the violent conflict at Gurdwara itself. No matter how horribly members of our community behave in incidents like these, it never justifies news coverage that perpetuates racist stereotypes. Phrases like “turban warfare” and “holy war” make the cause of this violence seem like something inherent in Sikhs, rather than what is likely the real cause of the violence– power and control.
Instead of journalism, we get sensationalized and provocative phrases that conjure up images of crazy-dangerous-brown-turbaned-bearded-religious zealots. No, this is not turban warfare. This is racist warfare through so-called reporting. This is unacceptable. This is outrageous.
What are we going to do about it?
To start, I would recommend we add our voices to the comments about the article and send emails to the reporter at perry.chiaramonte@nypost.com telling him what we think about this coverage. The article’s impact is already apparent in many of the readers’ comments:
“Isn’t it nice of these 3rd world savages to bring their wonderful culture over to America for us to enjoy. Multiculturalism has been a fantastic success.”
“Why are such people allowed into the country? Is this the South Asian version of the ‘Gangs of New York’? Doesn’t NYC and this country have enough violence without importing more from half-way around the world?”
Please add your ideas for action in the comments. Hopefully this matter will also be taken up by one or more of our Sikh civil rights organizations in the U.S. It’s clear that the issue here is much deeper than one tasteless article in the New York Post. Problematic, stereotypical representations of Sikhs in the media (here in North America AND in India), as Navdeep discussed in his piece yesterday, are not going anywhere. We have a lot of work to do.
*The New York Post is owned by media mogul Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp, which also owns news outlets as reputable as the “fair and balanced” Fox News.
63 Responses to “Turban Warfare or Racist Warfare (courtesy of the NY Post)?”
The damage has already been done…can not be reversed.
Completely understand your sentiment Brooklynwala about the tropes, cliches, and images they are trying to conjure. But I guess my problem is at this point I am still stuck at your earlier comment:
This type of behavior is inexcusable and unjustifiable. And it is far too common in our community, and in particular, in our houses of worship. Much deeper discussions and interventions are needed about violence in our Gurdwaras than I will go into here.
I think that is the conversation we should have first. I think for most Sikhs the first thing they are noticing is the video and the utter disregard that people in our own community can act in front of the Guru, the sangat, and to one another. I think you are misreading the pulse of the community – the community needs to reflect on what it means to each other, before misplacing those feelings on the media.
I am not ready to have that media conversation yet, although I understand how you being in the 'belly of the beast' (NY right now at this moment) may have an opinion different than mine.
i hear you. both conversations are really important and by posting on the media coverage, my intention was not to downplay the importance of the conversation within our community about gurdwara violence, its extremely disheartening and damaging effects to the sangat, and what we can do about it. in thinking about the broader societal ramifications of this incident, however, i had to immediately post about the racist stereotypes being perpetuated by the media. if my post is not what the focus of the conversations are in our community after this incident, that's fine — i think it's an important discussion that needs to be had because it's what the general public is taking away from all this.
@brooklynwala – haha, so the onus is on one of us to write a post and get that conversation started – the threads are there – punjabi masculinity, lack of respect, etc. etc.
I understand the sense of urgency in which you wrote. Like I said earlier, I am not in NYC where 500,000+ copies of a newspaper at every subway stop, every street corner say "TURBAN WARFARE."
another thing to add to the list of problems – hyperbole!
Deep's comments earlier – You're about as disgraceful as the idiots that walked into the gurdwara and attacking sangat.
In our community we can't disagree without upping the charges to preposterous levels. Everyone we disagree with is an Indian Government Agent (our equivalent of a Nazi), etc. Jon Stewart's advice to America is the same that some of us Sikhs can learn as well – tone down our 0 sum rhetoric.
"This kind of news coverage is even more shameful than the violent conflict at Gurdwara itself."
Do you have any evidence to back-up this statement? Or is this just rhetoric being ratcheted up further? You are no different from the NY Post journalists you seek to denigrate. You disappoint me.
this statement is an opinion. feel free to disagree. that being said, look no futher than the comments on the NY post article to see some of the article's ramifications. i don't mean to place these issues in a hierachy of importance (the gurdwara violence itself versus the horrible news coverage), but only to point out the seriousness of the new york post using headlines and catch phrases they used in this article.
We are in agreement that creating a hierarchy of shameful events is unproductive.
My concern with your article is that it points the finger at the right wing media (arguably a symptom here) rather than look at the source of the problem. I am glad you have condemned the behaviour of the rival groups in Richmond Hill, but I feel this should have been the main thrust of the post.
This just gives the NY Post more material/ammo, more website hits and more sales in the future as they are only too happy to perpetuate these stereotypes to readers.
I'm not sure if I agree with your response Citizen Singh or your tone (but using an anonymous handle usually brings that out in people).
You are asking Brooklynwala to focus his article on the rivalry versus the reporting of the issue. There are two issues here, both need addressing and Brooklynwala is addressing the reporting. Perhaps you can write an article on the rivalry, which we can all read. I would also like to hear more about your work in the Sikh community, because some of us have worked in the community for many years and see no easy solution here.
I agree there are two issues, but had there been no violence, the NY Post would have no article – one issue is derived from the other. Focus on the cause, and the effect is nullified.
Turning this debate into a "who does more for the Sikh community" competition shows a real reluctance to address the underlying problem. Why so defensive?
I will make efforts to moderate my tone in the future – I am not here just to kick off.
Hi, I'm chock about This kind of news coverage is even more shameful than the violent conflict at Gurdwara itself,
you absolute right.
Then now again start to teach how Sikhs people are good.
Always must show, again and again, never stop. Because people forget so fast.
My hearth is with you,
God bless you, dear Sikh from the whole word. I like you.
Cat
I guess the boys in Gurudwara are learning the American way of doing things .
A nation with rich history of wars
http://americanhistory.about.com/library/timelines/bltimelineuswars.htm
I just noticed that the headline on the Post's website no longer reads "Turban Warfare" but instead: "Violent Clash in Queens Sikh Temple." All the other sensationalist phrases are still in the article, and they have added a short, disturbing video. Of course, half a million copies of the print edition had "Turban Warfare" as a headline…
Congrats Brooklywala on trying to change the topic of what happened in the gurdwara to blaming the media. You would fit right in with the leaders of the punjabi sikh community here in Vancouver.
We had many fights here over the leadership of the gurdwara where the police have to be called. Over 200 young punjabi men most who parents are sikhs have lost there lives gang violence the last 15 years. Also a very high rate of domestic violence has led to death of several women. Yet instead of dealing with these issues, they spend 90% of the time blaming the media.
i am absolutely not blaming the media for this violence AT ALL. i am calling out the racist depiction of this violence in the media because that reverberates far beyond our community and plays a large role in shaping public opinion about sikhs. i added this sentence into the post because of misunderstandings of my point:
No matter how horribly members of our community behave in incidents like these, it never justifies news coverage that perpetuates racist stereotypes. Phrases like “turban warfare” and “holy war” make the cause of this violence seem like something inherent in Sikhs, rather than what is likely the real cause of the violence– power and control.
Brooklywala you seem to make every thing about race. If people were to read just what you have to say about sikhs in america, you would think that they had it worse then blacks in 1950's Alabama. You overuse play the race card and bash America is an evil racist country over and over like you have done here on Langar Hall and other blogs it gets old.
As for you comment about the cause of violence seem something inherent in Sikhs. We have nobody to blame but our own community for this sterotype. I have lost count how many times there have been fights in gurdwara in the western world and few people have even been killed and the police have to be called. What other religon in the west seems to have this problem. I would say it not a sikh thing, but a more macho Punjabi thing, where violence seems to be the way to solve problems.
Once again when it comes to the problems in our community too many have become the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's who instead of dealing with the real issues, find a way to play the victim.
"I would say it not a sikh thing, but a more macho Punjabi thing, where violence seems to be the way to solve problems."
well here is one place where we agree. an overly macho form of masculinity in our community is something we really have to look at deeply and challenge because it seems to be guiding what "leadership" looks in our institutions, and how these so-called leaders address conflict. this is a problem much bigger than sikhs or punjabis — this is a problem of patriarchy and the way boys and men learn to communicate and behave.
racism is not the cause of gurdwara violence. racism is what the new york post headline is screaming and perpetuating. i agree with jodha's analysis of sikhs as racialized muslims — http://thelangarhall.com/general/standing-against…. i don't know what your personal experience is, but it is crystal clear just from my own daily experience as a turban-wearing sikh, not to mention the concrete facts about the prevalence employment discrimination and hate crimes, that racism is alive and well in the united states today — for sikhs and all communities of color.
"…the cause of violence seem something inherent in Sikhs… What other religon in the west seems to have this problem."
We have some power hungry folks in our gurdwaras and we lack good leadership and have virtually no community development or accountability in our gurdwaras. However, the statement that "the cause of violence seem something inherent in Sikhs" smacks of a racial attitude.
Violence at places of worship is not limited to any one religion:
Fighting erupted between Greek Orthodox and Armenian monks at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the traditional site of Christ's crucifixion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7718587.stm
Confrontation between churches caught on tape: http://youtu.be/4O03_Kugu64
Fight at church in Texas: http://youtu.be/P-QN5BeQC2Y
Riot Broke Out At North Carolina Church: http://youtu.be/nSILfuU_eQ4
[…] while there are those who legitimately object to how the violence at the Gurdwara in Queens has been reported, this is a secondary […]
I'm amazed at the responses to this article. Instead of discussing the reaction by the New York Post to this violent, wanton incident, some of you have decided to throw stones at the Brooklynwala. He's done a superb job in highlighting how the media degenerates us into barbarians, 3rd world savages, continues to perpetuate stereotypes that have negative consequences for our community and yet you all digress from this and go on some trivial tangent. Stop being such idiots.You're about as disgraceful as the idiots that walked into the gurdwara and attacking sangat.
if that wasn't barbaric, i don't know what was. going into the gurdwara with swords and cricket bats. what else did you need for them to truly be savages? why didn't they add a couple of guns and rifles while they were at it, right? get a grip. the media stated what was there and what they saw. no need to point fingers at them. these men, as of now, are representing the sikh community. the fact that they're doing such a poor job is absolutely disgraceful. people are stereotypical, face it. if they see some members of the sikh community doing something like this, then they're obviously going to think that other sikhs are like this too. it's the way the mind works, and has been working for past centuries.
Well Mr.Hundal I guess accusing someone of overplaying the race card makes me just as disgraceful as those people who used violence in a place of worship. I'm idiot cause I would rather speak about the issues that affect the punjabi sikh community instead of bashing the media for everything single thing. I have seen this done over and over by our so called community leaders. The issue here should be another example of macho hot headed punjabi way of thinking is hurting the sikh community.
Also to call this writer a racist because of disagreeing with this one article is very serious charge. How much do we know about this writer. Maybe we can be like Al Sharpton and try to get him/her fired like he did with one dump comment by Don Imus, yet Mr.Sharpton didn't go anywhere as near as hard at all young men of his community in the music world who uses those comments over and over.
You can also argue that hate crimes against Sikhs are also overblown. Only handful have died after 9/11, while thousands in 1984 India.
Any form of violence should be overblown as a preventive measure. Cause when people start blowing things up, that’s really overblown.
You're about as disgraceful as the idiots that walked into the gurdwara and attacking sangat.
Wow, talk about hyperbole
true, there were alternate ways to speak of the incident but the truth of the matter is that these men who call themselves "sikhs" were truly barbaric. as for the "turban warfare" line, its true. sikhs all over the world are recognized for the turbans that they wear. it's not being racist. it's stating a fact. if the men had any respect, whatsoever, for the turbans that they so proudly place on their heads, they wouldn't have done such a disgusting deed. going into their own place of worship, going in front of the guru granth sahib ji and doing all this. i mean, seriously. have some respect. they bring shame to the sikh community of new york. he men who were fighting with the chamtey and swords and cricket bats were wearing turbans, if not all then most. i don't see what the problem is in calling it turban warfare. in all true sense, it was. don't call the news reporters racist if the people of the religion don't have any shame to begin with. before pointing fingers at those reporting, point the fingers at ourselves to see what we're doing. nevermind stopping the terms that people use to describe sikhs, we're instigating them to use them further and put them in the most horrible light possible. it's plain disgusting.
Guru Pyaareyo,
This incident & NY Post article should work as an Eye opener for all of us.
What has happened to we Gursikhs ? We aren't left with an iota of shame nor fear of Waheguru Jee and Dhan Sree Guru Granth Saaheb Jee.
* If we learn from this media 'highlight' and get our acts straight, sit down together to bring our house in order, I would thank this media coverage also.
If we can't respect our Guru Saahab and can't work to maintain the sanctity of our Gurudwara Saahab, we are all just paper tigers no matter how long our posts are (including me).
agreed. theres no point to these management committees. take flushing gurdwara for example. they've been trying to renovate it since last year and this committee has made no progress whatsoever. they go up on stage and boast about the fact that so and so has contributed this much money and so and so has contributed that much money. really now? if u had that much money then why isn't anything done? there is absolutely no need for these committees because they are of no help. they don't work for the better of the community, so why not just remove them?
may god help these people at the sikh day parade this saturday. hope everything goes smoothly.
We should be able to take up both the issue of any violence in our gurdwaras and the issue of media stereotyping of our community. One issue does not have to be at the expense of the other.
As a community, we do not know how to engage in a civil discussion. In the majority of our gurdwaras, much needed congregational skills and Sikh values are not fostered. When was the last time the sangat in your gurdwara sat down to calmly discuss any meaningful issue? These days most Sikhs have become adept at building costly massive political arenas (which are deceptively termed gurdwara), instead of building strong, supportive sangats.
As always, i'm thankful that TLH is such a wonderful place for us to share ideas. Frankly, I wish our real langar halls were so accommodating. Reading this story and watching the accompanying video made me nauseous – I can't even bear to watch these actions in the Guru's presence.
I agree that the media stereotyping is a serious issue facing our community. But to be honest, this time we need to stop and look within. It isn't entirely their fault when we confirm their stereotypes. Frankly, this incident, and other similar ones over the last few years, expose a hard truth: we often recognize and discuss external threats to our community, but it is vital that we confront this very real internal one.
These disputes are caused, in my experience, by the lethal cocktail of ego, greed, money, self-righteousness, and self-aggrandizement. These aren't new, and they will probably never go away. But too many members of the sangat do nothing but feed this. I don't know the way to resolve these disputes – what I do know is that we need a real approach. When these things happen (and they have happened in my presence at a gurdwara) it threatens my, and probably others, faiths from within.
RSBagga made a good point being thankful to TLH here for striving to do something not being even thought about in anyother hall, langar or not. Unfortunately some people appear to wander in to the TLH straight from our real langar halls which rsbagga dreads, turning discussions in to arguments and name calling before you know it. Good luck to the TLH team for keeping it a place for sharing ideas and holding each other by the hand and not by the ankle !
This article is more sensational than the one you're talking about. This crap is a weekly affair in Gurdwaras. Get over yourself and your false pride and be good Sikhs. Stop acting like cowards always begging to be seen as victims.
Stop whinning,Guru might be benevolent and belong to his sikhs,but gurdwaras belong to the managing commitees.It was true during the times of the gurus and it is true today.So instead of blaming the messenger try joining a commitee,grab some money from the golak and make hay while the sun shines.
this actually made me laugh out loud… there is some truth in the humor.
Thnkx.
[…] can imagine, New York City’s tabloids have had a field day with this story. Be sure to read the Langer Hall’s analysis of the coverage of the […]
let us do two thought experiments :–
Thought Expt -1 :– Replace Sangat : Let us for a moment replace Sikhs wiht Buddhist /Hindus/Christians/Jews praying in Gurdwara .
There would obviously be no violence
Conlusion : Sikhs are highly androgenized/masclunised/violent race.
Thought Expt -11 : Shift the Gurudwara : Let us move this Gurudwara under discussion to a country like Bhutan or Fiji.
There would be again no violence
Conclusion :— Since America is an EMPIRE.The properties of empire seeps into Gurudwara
So SIKHS in USA are double prone to above like events.
The Genotype and the enviornment are showing its results
The point of creating a thought experiment is to control variables so that we can make conclusions. Unfortunately, your abortive attempt to make any semblance of a real argument fell well short of those standards. In other words, you typed a lot, but managed to say very little.
Please help me in improving my model
of event and add some more
“HIDDEN VARIABLE ”
which are not manifest in the above evolving model/hypothesis of event.
Do also say more than what I have said.
1. It's not clear that, accounting for the controlled variable, that we get the outcome that you assert as a conclusion.
2. The conclusions that you reach are arbitrary. People fight for reasons other than their masculinity, and there is literature out there to support the notion that feminine and matriarchal societies engage in violence as well. Moreover, what does an "empire" have to do with squabbles in the Gurdwara over internal politics? To make that conclusion realistic, you'd have to both explain that and show that Sikhs in the US are somehow more prone to violence. Moreover, I think that the violent tendencies of Sikhs, which you hold to have been accentuated by being in the US, would generalize itself to violence outside the scope of the Gurdwara as well. Being a US-born Sikh, I can tell you with some level of confidence that I have no real aspirations to empire or dominance over other people, despite what your well-thought-out premises and conclusions might suggest.
3. Let's not pretend like Sikhs in Punjab, or even the UK and Canada (which has seen its share of recent Gurdwara politics struggles) don't fight over land, sectarianism, etc. Let's also not pretend that people claiming to be Hindus don't wage religious violence (Ayodha ring a bell? The historical record is replete with instances of violence waged by "Hindu" partisans). Let's also not pretend that Buddhists don't engage in religious struggle (Sri Lanka, Sinhalese Thiravada Buddhism and the war with other groups, and anti-conversion laws against Christians). I don't think that I even need to mention instances of the latter two groups perpetrating violence, both for secular and religious reasons.
4. I'm not going to attempt to rescue your model, as it's so far off base that it cannot be rescued. You fail to consider proximate causes, such as money and political power, that precipitated such violence, which happen to be universally-cited causes of corruption of the human spirit.
5. Where are you from? I'm sure that I can formulate some half-witted critique of what I perceive to be your nation's flaws and apply them to you more specifically.
6. I believe that the above definitely "says" more than you did in either of your posts.
So you say
1) Money and Political power precipitates violence:–This is exactly what citizens of all empire do and that is what I had said.
2) As for other religions :–You dont find Brawls happening in Churches,Temples ,Synagoges in USA .It happens mostly in Gurudwaras so it is got to be in the OUR BLOOD to be violent.
3) Brawls in UK are not as frequent as in USA as USA is a empire and Canada is its next door incubating empire.
I am from India
Let me also say that SIKHS loce to be citizens of Empire
Incidentllly Sikh concentration is highest in Countries which have been or are empire
eg :–
a) UK : Former British empire :– Population :– 336,000
b) USA : Currant Empire :– Population :– 250,000
c) Italy : Former Roman empire :– Population :– 70,000
d) Canada : Likely to become empire :– Population :– 278,415
These assertions are absurd and cannot be backed up whatsoever. If you can find any numbers to back these assertions that you've made, then maybe your argument will be considered remotely successful. I've heard of fights in churches here, but I guess I'll have to take your word for it (even if they somehow never happened, you'd have to prove that the factors you arbitrarily point to are the cause, which you have utterly failed to do). Moreover, you've ignored arguments regarding the universality of the corrupting influence of money. Are you going to say that this isn't the cause of conflict in India? Please.
Also, almost every society has had an empire or oppressive government in its past. You're strategically selecting examples to falsely push your claim.
I'm done with this argument out of respect for other readers and also due to the fact that an argument with someone that ignores the dictates of logic to the extent that you do is futile.
instead of urging community members to look within, you instigate us to go after the media person who wrote the story. ignoring the fact that, had there been no violence in the gurudwara, there would have been no coverage.
we should be grateful that the reporter did not make a few phone calls and discover that this violent malaise afflicts our community all over north america or how, contrary to claims of equality, we practice a rigid caste system, evidenced by the fact that the queens gurudwara was a "labana" gurudwara.
I think everyone is missing the point…The point of the article is not what happened in the gurdwara, that is shameful and that is what Brooklynvala is saying. His point is that even though the event in the gurdwara was not justified, the potrayal in the media makes it worse, and we need to take notice of how the media is potraying us and what they know about Sikhs.
He clearly states that he is not going to discuss the actions of those who went to the gurdwara but he wants to focus on how the media potrays us.
If we want to focus the discussion on why we have issues/violence at the gurdwara, that is a separate discussion in itself….
Maybe if people like Brooklywala and his friends weren't posting rubbish in support of Palestinians and Muslims or whoever the latest victim group is and concentrating on taking part in the life of their local Gurdwaras and encouraging Sikh youth to do the same then we wouldn't be seeing such events. But after his bout of Panth Dokhi-ness he'll revert back to attacking Sikhism and encouraging the use of halal meat and doing siapa for the palestinians and others.
please tell me you're canadian. 🙂
"This kind of news coverage is perhaps even more shameful than the violent conflict at Gurdwara itself"
+++++
And there lies the problem.
There is little more shameful than violence inside a Gurudwara. And the violence gives others an excuse to stereotype.
And yet you really privelige the expressions of a tabloid and some ignorant commenters over the original and most disgusting crime?
Frankly, I am sick and tired of violence in Gurudwarey. I grew up seeing it here in England, its happened in Europe, it happens in the USA and Canada. More and more Sikhs born in the west lose respect for Sikh institutions when this happens, and nothing is done about it by the establishment. Time to get our own house in order. Enough is enough.
What is interesting to realize if you think about it for a second, it is not the Sikhs who grew up in the West who cause the fights, it is those who came from Punjab and India…
Does that say something?
KSingh hit the nail on the head. It is our real langarhall stuff and not the TLH. Atleast not yet! My hope is TLH is going to grow taller with time as if to prove T is for tall.!!
Let’s not forget the attackers didn’t put a dollar in the golak. Hey, before you attack your fellow Sikhs, you put money where your sword is! —Is the level of respect we’re accustomed of giving to the Guru, just bowing before it, covering our head, and giving money?
The gurdwara management may be the issue but the underlying cause is anger management. Just look at the past threads. Whenever we disagree, we hurl out words like “idiots,” “fools,” and blast each other in cap locks. God forbid we have different viewpoints or don’t come to the same conclusion at the same time in our journey. It’s all about bulldozing the other. The last time I checked, there has only been one way to respect the Guru, control your vices, control your inner demons. Why are we so surprised about what happened in Richmond Hill? I wouldn’t worry about the media coverage. Just be glad it didn’t happen in France. Protesting against the turban ban would have been more difficult.
Can’t wait for the Sikh Day Parade. Now where did I put my cricket bat?
@moorakh88,now where did i put my cricket bat?I hpoe right next to the sword.ha,ha,just kidding,sometimes it feels as just never ending comedy.
I would like to begin by thanking Brooklynwala once again for bringing to our attention how the media does not miss an opportunity to stereotype us and speak of us in a derogatory manner. The intent of the writer from NY Post was not to fully inform the readers of the event or the circumstances surrounding the event but to further perpetuate racist beliefs and existing stereotypes. The point that many of the readers are misssing is that if the writer wanted he could have easily described the incident by respectfully mentioning it occurred in a gurudwara and for readers who would not have knowledge of Sikhs or their outward symbols, he could have provided a link or a brief explanation. In the way the article was framed it was manipulated and was intended to mock a community.
This is not to say that the incident reported is not a pressing matter for our community. In fact it is a reason many are turned off from attending the gurudwara and find the experience of attending weekly service to be spiritually void. These issues do need to be addressed and we need to stop fooling ourselves that we are a people that really practice what has been taught to us by our gurus and face the fact most of us constantly engage in practices that are racist in nature and we do treat men and women differently and we have not really moved from the caste system.
But. these internal problems need to be addressed internally and we have to stand one as a community because to the average caucasion there is no difference between a amritdhari, jat, paapey, etc. These are divisions we have made and when the media stereotypes and perpetuates these images of us as unruly we need to recognize their behavior and put pressure on them to correct b/c we all know the writer of that article would have thought twice if he was covering an incident that involved blacks, italians, greeks. He only felt he could do this because they expect most Indian groups to be subservient and not activists and make a big deal about these coverages.
We all as Sikhs are affected by these types of media stereotyping and should thank writers like Brooklywala for being vigilant and sensitive enough to recognize these issues and bring it to our attention. There is a fine line between a healthy discussion and the kind of bashing that is occuring in this forum. There is room in our faith to accomodate different opinions and lines of thoughts.
so why are people fighting with swords and cricket-bats in a gurdware (place of worship)? Isn't that the key question?
This report itself is quite funny – of course, the NY Post is a sleazy tabloid rag – it will always sensationalize all its stories to the max.
What I found really disconcerting was the complete absence of analysis for the reasons behind these fights or how to change that – with comments like – There have been many violent incidents in the last several months at this Gurdwara (which itself was born out a violent conflict at the original Richmond Hill Gurdwara, the Sikh Cultural Society), resulting in a regular police presence there.
But there is no need to work out why high-levels of violence take place over so many years? Only the need to lash out at the NY Post. and other "paper tigers"?
typical sikhs im not surprised at all. they are male-chauvenist macho hot tempered arseholes.
This NY sangat needs to look at El Sabranta Gurudwara in CA Bay area. They had multiple situations of physical fighting in the past which ended in a gun man walking in and opening fire. This was few years back. Not sure what they did but things are a lot more under control.
The topix usually being discussed in most Sikh sites include including Langar Hall can be categorized into three broad categories :–
1)Muslims either for or against them .
2)“5- K” and Western world accommodation
3)1984 Sikhs and India
The only topic not following in this category at langar Hall would include :–
1)Japan in Crisis: What you can do and
2)Class Tyranny in Wisconsin
The statistics of participation/reply for different topic was as follows
Median = 5 ,Mean = 12.94 with range of 0 to 92
The topic with no replies included :–
1)Mandeep Sethi’s Punjabi Gypsy Hip Hop Rebellion
2)Sikhtoons book to be released
Amongst the hotly debated topic would included :– 1) Turban Warfare or Racist Warfare (courtesy of the NY Post)? = 54 replies 2) Anti Muslim Hate Comes to Orange County, California = 73 replies 3) The Divisive Taboo of Halal for Sikhs = 92 replies This shows that Muslims still occupy a sizeable part of our mind and Western comes a close second to it . Cant we add to the above list topics which excite all the mankind's mind and not just SIKH minds like 1) Evolution 2) Aliens 3) 11 dimensions of M theory 4) Space travel 5) Other civilizations 6) Time machines etc etc
@ Harinder: Nice work.
The URL of this website is a recreation of the conversations going on in the brick and mortar Langar Halls – ever heard of Time machine discussion between two prashaddey j/k
Thank you NY Post for the story. Maybe the only instance of News Corp gaining my respect.
Thanks Brooklynwala for bringing it to our attention.
Now can someone identify the thugs in the video please ?
[…] to Vishavjit on this accomplishment. As misconceptions and stereotypes about Sikhs continue to persist in the mainstream media and general public, I hope […]
when i was growing up entering a gurdwara brandishing a weapon and attacking the sangat in front of guru granth sahib was unthinkable; it was beyond any possibility. now it seems to have become a commonplace routine among some groups. what has happened?
i think the new york post's coverage wasn't comprehensive enough. they should have published mug shots of each of these perpetrators with their full names right on the front page. that's what newspapers are supposed to be for, for holding people publicly accountable for their actions. instead, these thugs are wandering around free, probably planning out their next "attack", without any responsibility, accountability, or recrimination what-so-ever.
when i was growing up (in a major u.s. city with a large minority population), the mantra was that you need to work three times as hard to get to the same position as a member of the majority. three times as hard. and you have to realize that as a minority, you represent much more than yourself. your actions in public are scrutinized much more carefully than anyone else's. that's just a fact of life for minorities anywhere, anytime. that's what wearing the guru's saroop is supposed to be about.
we seem to have completely lost our way.
[…] The Post, hardly known for objective, fact-based journalism (see my 2011 piece on “Turban Warfare“), also reported that 12 were killed in today’s explosions, while the police department […]
[…] Police Department. The Post, hardly known for objective, fact-based journalism (see my 2011 piece on “Turban Warfare”), also reported that 12 were killed in the explosions, while the police department was reporting […]
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