Letter from Kashmir

Guest Blogged by Amritpan

kashmir.jpg

Earlier this week I received an email letter from Kashmir. This was not the first such letter from Kashmir, nor I fear, will it be the last. Ive read this letter once, twice, again and again and still cannot begin to explain the helplessness, anger, and despair that I feel each time. Helplessness for the lives of my people lost. Anger for the status quo of violence and periods of strained silence that soon erupt into violence and for this brutal cycle. And despair for seemingly no end in sight, the lack of a process that could bring peace to my homeland.

Below I share this letter with you. Some of it was also published here.

Dear friends and family,

I hope this email reaches you in the best of health and happiness. Im writing to you from Kashmir, where Ive been for the past three weeks.I wanted to write this email to let you know about the deteriorating situation here, as Im frustrated with the lack of coverage or misrepresentation in the international media.Sorry for the length and scattered-ness of this email, but I do hope you read it entirely and spread word about the situation.

To give you a bit of a background, on June 11th, the Indian occupying forces (referred also as the army in this email) killed a young 17-year-old boy, named Tufail, who was walking home amidst a routine protest in downtown Kashmir. Protests are a regular occurrence in Kashmirusually resulting from human rights abuses committed by the Indian occupying forces. The people call for freedom and an end to the Indian occupation in Kashmir. Tufail was not part of the protest, but his life was cut short by a rubber bullet that hit him in the head. During a protest in the days following his brutal murder, another young Kashmiri man, named Rafiq was injured, and succumbed to his injuries a few days later in the hospital. At hisfuneral a day later, his cousin, Javed, was also shot and killed by the forces.The cycle of violence has continuedat the funerals or ensuing protests for the diseased, the occupying forces have killed over 15 youth and critically injured or arrested hundreds. This past Monday, a 17-year-old boy named Muzaffar disappeared after troops chased him and a group of young boys throwing stones. His body was found in a drain the next day and he was allegedly beaten to death. At his funeral, another 16-year old was killed and a stray bullet struck a woman who was standing by her window. She was killed as well. During all of these days, there was a hartaal in all of Kashmir. A hartaal is a strike called by the mainstream parties (they are referred to as the separatist parties, but I do not believe thatterm is accurate since Kashmir never belonged to India and thus the use of the term separatist is false).Kashmiris shut down their businesses, no one goes to work. Schools, banks, government buildings, transportation etc are completely shut down.There is some traffic that moves in more residential areas, but in many areas young boys throw stones at passing vehicles for disobeying the call for hartaal. So most people generally tend not to move around. During the hartaal days, protests have erupted throughout the valley and are violently quelled by the Indian army and local police. However, in the past three days, the situation has gotten so bad that the government has imposed a curfewwhich means that no one is allowed to move outside. It is a way for them to stop all movement, including the protests, but many areas have defied the curfew and protests still ensue. You can only imagine what happens to the people who need to get to hospitalsI read yesterday that the Indian forces refused to allow a sick Kashmiri woman to get to a hospital during the curfew, and she died.

The cycle of violence is maddening, and there seems to be no end to it. The Indian and local puppet governments blame the violence on the youth and their stone-throwing, but even with that in mind, one can hardly rationalize their policy of firing freely and indiscriminately into unarmed crowds (they seem to hold stones to the same level as AK-47s and thus consider these crowds armed) and targeting to kill. The local police have absolutely no training on how to control crowds. To give you a comparison of how the Indians deal with protests in parts of Indiain the violent BJP protests a few days ago in Delhithe authorities shot water balloons into the crowds.

Even as I write, I can hear the bullets from a distancewhether they are from the tear gas that is dispersed into the crowds or actual bullets, I cant tell anymore.I keep hear army convoys driving through the cityIve counted atleast 15 in the past half an hour alone. Where they are going, and what madness they will unleash, God only knows.

Last night I heard a protest around midnightshouts ofazaadi(freedom), loud announcements from the loudspeakers of the nearby mosques, and then all of a sudden, the sudden sounds of the Indian army trucks as they moved towards the direction of the protest. I pray that nothing happened, but Im not sure of that as the government and/or army (one can hardly tell them apart) has decided to completely block the media.

The media censorship began once the violence startedthe local TV news-hour was cut to a mere ten minutesin hopes that the news being reported would not rile people up even further. Now its completely stopped. For a while, the only means of knowing what was going on over the past few weeks was the print newspaper, but today they even stopped the printing of the newspapers. The cell-phone services in the more volatile areas are blocked. Text messaging services all across the valley are also blockedtheyre afraid that the youth will use mass texting to congregate or that media sources will use text messages to let people know about any more deaths/injuries. Yesterday, they also took away the curfew passes of the journalists, and now even the local journalists are unable to cover the stories or move around. Just two days ago, we heard reports of a dozen photojournalists being beaten and severely injured by the Indian occupying forces as they were covering the funeral of one of the young boys who was killed.

What upsets me the most is the coverage of this situation in the Indian news media, which not so ironically, are the only news channels were getting here. I thought the coverage of Israel-Palestine in the American news media was upsetting, but this is to another level. Their stories focus almost entirely on the stone-throwing of the young boys (not the killings or the human rights abuses), and the suspicious role of Pakistan is sponsoring this rogue, extremist behavior. Expert after expert is brought to give analysis of the situation hereand the newscaster always asks Why are the people so angry? Whos behind this? I heard a man yesterday claim that the Kashmiris are actually happy that the army is there, as they feel safe and secure with them around. They view this situation from the prism of terrorism and then sometimes from the prism of a law and order situation. They have no idea, or dont want to have an idea, about the aspirations and wishes of the people here. The Indian public is completely delusional about the situation in Kashmir, and their media is prolonging this delusion. I met an Indian family on my flight from New Delhi to Srinagar who were visiting Kashmir for a week. The lady kept on asking me if I ever saw any terrorists in Kashmir. I told her that all the only terrorists I saw was the Indian army. She was upset by my comment and asked what I meantI told her that just a few days ago the army had killed an innocent young boy. All she could say was well, he must have been a terrorist.She was shocked to hear that anti-Indian sentiments ran deep in Kashmir and kept on denying it and asking if I was an agent for Pakistan.

To give you a sense of the situation on a personal level, the volunteers that come through the organization that I help run (KashmirCorps) have been completely unable to do their work since theyve arrived. It is frustrating to watch, as they were placed in wonderful local NGOs and were so excited to work on their projects. They are waiting anxiously at their hotel to see what happens with the conditions, unable to move around.My parents were supposed to come on Sunday from the States, but they have cancelled their trip. My family here, though, is used to the situation. Im currently staying with my moms side of the family in Srinagar. My grandparents are elderly and need to get some medicines from the pharmacy, but we have been unable to move outside. My little cousin Zainab, who is seven years old, hasnt gone to school for the past three weeks. She asked her mom yesterday to make a special prayer to God that she would be allowed to start school again soon. My uncle, who is a physician and runs his own private clinic, hasnt gone to work for the past three days. During the days of the hartaal, he would leave early in the morning to evade the protests, but then return around noon as none of the patients were able to come.

But what is most heartbreaking for me is my dads side of the family, who lives in Sopore, less than an hour away from Srinagar, the capital city where I am. Sopore is considered to be the Gaza of Kashmir. A number of the boys who were killed were from Sopore, and since Ive arrived, the entire city has been placed on curfew—not just hartaal. There are protests there regularly and encounters between the locals and the army. I have not been able to see my grandmother or my cousins and extended family there since Ive arrived. We were supposed to have three weddings in the family this summer; all of them have been cancelled. I am unable to call them, as their cell phone services have been cut. Every few days, my uncle or aunt manages to call me from one of the phones in the area that is working. I can hear the disappointment in their voicethey just keep on saying If only we could just see your face, thats it. Because of the curfew, their food items are severely restrictedso theyre surviving on the little amount they grow in their gardens or trying to make do with their neighbors.On Sunday, they lifted the curfew for a few hours, and my uncle tried to get to the city to see me. Right around that time, news of the recent killings became known, and the curfew was once again imposed. Because transportation is not allowed, he had to walk nearly 20 kilometers back home. They dont tell me much, they dont want me to worry. But I know that the army there does nightly raids in houses, looking for suspected militants or renegade youth. My cousin there is 14-years oldI worry about him. Hes of their target suspect age.

The situation in downtown Srinagar, just a few kilometers from where Im sitting is also similar. They have also been under curfew for the past three weeks as that is where most of the protests happen. There is a severe shortage of foodwater, milk, meat, bread. I cant even imagine what the situation is like for them. Thank God, these items are available where I live.

The few times we were able to move around, I met with a few leaders of NGOs here that KashmirCorps work with. It is so difficult for them to operate in such conditions as you can imagine. Their plans for the week are completely interrupted and theyre unable to move ahead on their programs or get their work done. Their sense of helplessness is overwhelmingin these circumstances they are completely unable to provide relief or aid to the most impoverished populations here.

Ive also had a chance to meet a few youth and young professionals. What theyre going through is worthy of another separate email. I am impressed and humbled by them, but scared for their futures. One thing Ive noticed is that theyre all becoming quite active on social mediayoutube, facebook, etcspreading the word through that medium about the situation here. I wish they were given more opportunities to express themselves; there is an abundance of potential here that is being completely ignored or misdirected.

I cant tell what will happen here over the next few weeks. But like the cycle of violence, the cycle of disappointment also exists. There will be no justice for the victims of the recent killingsno inquiry by the Indian government, or any international body, no punishment for the perpetrators. That I am 100% sure of. The government might be able to quell the situation momentarily and make claims about how it is serious about the peace process and dialogue with Pakistan. Then, theyll find an excuse to delay it. Meanwhile, the cycle of violence on the ground will continue.

I am going to end this email here. Please, please keep the people here in your thoughts and prayers. And do try to spread the word, even if that means forwarding this email. One of the many reasons the Indian government gets away with what it does in Kashmir is because the issue does not get much international coverage. I have shared a few links of news stories—I will be happy to send more if youre interested.

In peace,

Hafsa


KashmirCorps Blog for this summerread about how the Volunteers are coping with the situation

Local Kashmiri Newspapers: here and here

Article by a young Kashmiri Journalist in an Indian newspaper

Article by a Kashmiri American in the Huffington Post

Kashmiri Blog

LA Times Article: here and here

Al Jazeera Article

BBC

Waving Flag, the Kashmiri Version


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82 Responses to “Letter from Kashmir”

  1. iSingh says:

    Kudos to the author for undertaking humanitarian work in Srinagar. But the perspective in the article/ viewpoint in the letter is quite naive.

  2. iSingh says:

    Kudos to the author for undertaking humanitarian work in Srinagar. But the perspective in the article/ viewpoint in the letter is quite naive.

  3. kabza says:

    @isingh
    Care to explain? Simply making a claim is not very convincing at all, especially in a blog dedicated to a community whose homeland was marred by the blood of innocent civilians by the same regime not too long ago. Unless you think that is a naive viewpoint as well. (ensaaf.org can show you empirically the operation of this regime)

  4. kabza says:

    @isingh
    Care to explain? Simply making a claim is not very convincing at all, especially in a blog dedicated to a community whose homeland was marred by the blood of innocent civilians by the same regime not too long ago. Unless you think that is a naive viewpoint as well. (ensaaf.org can show you empirically the operation of this regime)

  5. iSingh says:

    @kabza
    I said naive, not incorrect. More like an innocent wonder if you will.

  6. Rajinder Singh Virk says:

    If the kashmiris had any viable claim to freedom/independence,after all these years they would have
    presented it.By throwing stones,disrupting public life,destrying public/private property,and spreading
    terror on instigation of pakistan will get them nothing.India cannot & should not relinquish its union with J&K.Ordinary kashmiris should learn a lesson from sikh terrorists,one should not fight with a strong adversary without a good/valid reason,otherwise they will be crushed.

  7. iSingh says:

    @kabza
    I said naive, not incorrect. More like an innocent wonder if you will.

  8. Rajinder Singh Virk says:

    If the kashmiris had any viable claim to freedom/independence,after all these years they would have
    presented it.By throwing stones,disrupting public life,destrying public/private property,and spreading
    terror on instigation of pakistan will get them nothing.India cannot & should not relinquish its union with J&K.Ordinary kashmiris should learn a lesson from sikh terrorists,one should not fight with a strong adversary without a good/valid reason,otherwise they will be crushed.

  9. pv1947 says:

    There were 522 independent kingdoms and principalities in Aug 1947, not one of which is independent of the succesor states of India and Pakistan. Bangladesh was also a successor state within Pakistan.
    The Kashmiris on one hand deride the Dogra kingdom and on he other want to benefit from it by making a claim to independence based on Dogra raj. Throwing stones at law enforcement is an invitation to counter actions the world over.

  10. pv1947 says:

    There were 522 independent kingdoms and principalities in Aug 1947, not one of which is independent of the succesor states of India and Pakistan. Bangladesh was also a successor state within Pakistan.
    The Kashmiris on one hand deride the Dogra kingdom and on he other want to benefit from it by making a claim to independence based on Dogra raj. Throwing stones at law enforcement is an invitation to counter actions the world over.

  11. Supinder Singh says:

    Kashmir should be granted what it was promised in 1947, a plebiscite. The Kashmiri people should decide their fate. The Indian government of whatever hue has repeatedly distanced itself form such a move, in violation of its original commitment .

    As a Sikh, i feel the Guru's teaching would be in support of people like Hafsa.

  12. Supinder Singh says:

    Kashmir should be granted what it was promised in 1947, a plebiscite. The Kashmiri people should decide their fate. The Indian government of whatever hue has repeatedly distanced itself form such a move, in violation of its original commitment .

    As a Sikh, i feel the Guru's teaching would be in support of people like Hafsa.

  13. Bik says:

    The Kashmiris have a viable strategy here and one which would undo the harm done by their militant movement and it's alignment with Taliban and Islamofascist forces. India can never hold on to Kashmir if there is a stone throwing intifada there, the west will soon tire of India's excuses that it is fighting terrorism if what they see is unarmed protesters being shot by the army. This is why Indian media is in such a tizzy and blaming the stone throwing on people paid by Pakistan to throw stones.

  14. Bik says:

    The Kashmiris have a viable strategy here and one which would undo the harm done by their militant movement and it's alignment with Taliban and Islamofascist forces. India can never hold on to Kashmir if there is a stone throwing intifada there, the west will soon tire of India's excuses that it is fighting terrorism if what they see is unarmed protesters being shot by the army. This is why Indian media is in such a tizzy and blaming the stone throwing on people paid by Pakistan to throw stones.

  15. Supinder Singh says:

    Kashmir is aflame, a new generation of Kashmiri youth are willing (according to BBC reports) to die for Azadi Kashmir. The media have termed this uprising the Kasmiri 'intifada' – equating the situation with the Palestinain struggle.

    Manmohan Singh has given a televion broadcast appealing to the youth to ."..give peace a chance" and the porspect of giving Kashmir greater autonomy has been muted.

    The situtaion has been described as being '…as tense a scenaio for at elast 20 years".

    I wish the Kashmiri every luck for their "Azad"; unlike Punjab it seems as if there is real grass roots support of sucession. I hope the Indian security forces do not massacre a generation of Kasmiri youth males as had happened in the Punjab in the 80s and 90s.

  16. Supinder Singh says:

    Kashmir is aflame, a new generation of Kashmiri youth are willing (according to BBC reports) to die for Azadi Kashmir. The media have termed this uprising the Kasmiri 'intifada' – equating the situation with the Palestinain struggle.

    Manmohan Singh has given a televion broadcast appealing to the youth to ."..give peace a chance" and the porspect of giving Kashmir greater autonomy has been muted.

    The situtaion has been described as being '…as tense a scenaio for at elast 20 years".

    I wish the Kashmiri every luck for their "Azad"; unlike Punjab it seems as if there is real grass roots support of sucession. I hope the Indian security forces do not massacre a generation of Kasmiri youth males as had happened in the Punjab in the 80s and 90s.

  17. RajinderSinghVirk says:

    @Supinder,shame on you for advocating the iilegal and immoral activities,of criminals in the name of an abstract notion of azadi.The media in it's irresponsible behaviour is blowing things out of proportions,there is no grass roots movement,and any separatist movement will be put down.All great nation states have to go through this kind of abberations,USA had to go thru a civil war in order to keep its union together.Indian politicians/authorities should suck it up and stop being pussies,and do whatever needs to be done to keep indian union together.

  18. RajinderSinghVirk says:

    @Supinder,shame on you for advocating the iilegal and immoral activities,of criminals in the name of an abstract notion of azadi.The media in it's irresponsible behaviour is blowing things out of proportions,there is no grass roots movement,and any separatist movement will be put down.All great nation states have to go through this kind of abberations,USA had to go thru a civil war in order to keep its union together.Indian politicians/authorities should suck it up and stop being pussies,and do whatever needs to be done to keep indian union together.

  19. iSingh says:

    @Supinder

    Again you are the voice of sanity. Cheers.

    @RSV
    "and any separatist movement will be put down"
    Shame on you. By that logic, all the Commonwealth countries who fought for independence were 'criminals'? Btw US is a Federal system – something that should have been done for India weren't it for the power hungry – Nehru-Jinnah-et al going against the recommendations presented to them. But if this is due to your oath towards protecting sovereignty of Bharat Mata then I take words back.

  20. iSingh says:

    @Supinder

    Again you are the voice of sanity. Cheers.

    @RSV
    "and any separatist movement will be put down"
    Shame on you. By that logic, all the Commonwealth countries who fought for independence were 'criminals'? Btw US is a Federal system – something that should have been done for India weren't it for the power hungry – Nehru-Jinnah-et al going against the recommendations presented to them. But if this is due to your oath towards protecting sovereignty of Bharat Mata then I take words back.

  21. Sher says:

    "I wish the Kashmiri every luck for their "Azad"; unlike Punjab it seems as if there is real grass roots support of sucession"

    Supinder while your only objective in supporting Kashmiri 'Azadi' (?) is to hurt the union of India, do you also realise the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan (as proposed by Huriyat Conference) would mean our beloved Punjab encircled from two sides by forces hostile to Sikhi?

    Also, your support for the noble notion of azadi only restricted to movements in India only or areas under pakistan control are also inclluded – balochistan, Pashtunistan, Sidhistan, PoK, Swat, etc to name a few.

    Also since you are an adherent supporter of (i assume here, could be wrong) sikhs being a separate faith from Hinduism; do you also support the growing movement by ravidassias to have a new faith of their own and remove Guru Granth sahib from Ravidass temples?

    Sher

  22. Sher says:

    "I wish the Kashmiri every luck for their "Azad"; unlike Punjab it seems as if there is real grass roots support of sucession"

    Supinder while your only objective in supporting Kashmiri 'Azadi' (?) is to hurt the union of India, do you also realise the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan (as proposed by Huriyat Conference) would mean our beloved Punjab encircled from two sides by forces hostile to Sikhi?

    Also, your support for the noble notion of azadi only restricted to movements in India only or areas under pakistan control are also inclluded – balochistan, Pashtunistan, Sidhistan, PoK, Swat, etc to name a few.

    Also since you are an adherent supporter of (i assume here, could be wrong) sikhs being a separate faith from Hinduism; do you also support the growing movement by ravidassias to have a new faith of their own and remove Guru Granth sahib from Ravidass temples?

    Sher

  23. Supinder Singh says:

    idiot

    Sup means "Pearl"; Sup – inder means lord of pearls.

  24. Supinder Singh says:

    For the rest of your 'questions' – they are so tedious and be better answered if you engage in other message-boards on the topic of Kashmir…but that's not your MO is it – you're here to antagonise Sikhs. 'Sir' …you are a maggot.

    The one part of your 'question' which is the most idiotic…is the one regarding water…any cursory look at the geography of the area renders this 'question' useless. The waters of the Indus and of the 'Punjab' are ultimately derived from the Tibeten Plateau which is controlled by China; no water is orignally derived from Kashmir other than the meltwater produced by the Siachen Glacier.

    How tedious you are; go replenise your spite with a glass of bovine urine you moron.

  25. Supinder Singh says:

    idiot

    Sup means "Pearl"; Sup – inder means lord of pearls.

  26. Supinder Singh says:

    For the rest of your 'questions' – they are so tedious and be better answered if you engage in other message-boards on the topic of Kashmir…but that's not your MO is it – you're here to antagonise Sikhs. 'Sir' …you are a maggot.

    The one part of your 'question' which is the most idiotic…is the one regarding water…any cursory look at the geography of the area renders this 'question' useless. The waters of the Indus and of the 'Punjab' are ultimately derived from the Tibeten Plateau which is controlled by China; no water is orignally derived from Kashmir other than the meltwater produced by the Siachen Glacier.

    How tedious you are; go replenise your spite with a glass of bovine urine you moron.

  27. Inderjit says:

    SSA

    The prefix 'Sup' means pearls, associated with wisdom and/or beauty.

    'Sapp' means snake. Sikhs do not name themselves (or worship) after snakes.

    As Sikhs the GGS gives us our names and we should all work hard to live up to them.

    WJKK WJKF

  28. Inderjit says:

    SSA

    The prefix ‘Sup’ means pearls, associated with wisdom and/or beauty.

    ‘Sapp’ means snake. Sikhs do not name themselves (or worship) after snakes.

    As Sikhs the GGS gives us our names and we should all work hard to live up to them.

    WJKK WJKF

  29. Sher says:

    Jodha,

    I admit I may have been wrong. to err is human…

    But my GGS search engine still not showing any results for this term 'waheguru'
    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?…

    Sher

  30. Sher says:

    Wiki tells us:'

    "In Sikh scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, the term does not figure in the compositions of the Gurus, though it occurs therein, both as Vahiguru and Vahguru, in the hymns of Bhatt Gayand, the bard contemporary with Guru Arjan, Nanak V (1553-1606), and also in the Varan of Bhai Gurdas.

    "Waheguru", and its variant "Wahguru", appear only 18 times in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Wahguru occurs twice on Ang 1403 and once on Ang 1404"

    The word 'Hari' appears 8344 times (!!!!) in GGS, '

    The word 'Ram' on the other mentioned some 2533 times.

    'Mohammad' does find mention in GGS at all while Allah ……

    Waheguru 18 times and of these nine times on just one page. am I correct?

    Sher

  31. Sher says:

    Jodha,

    I admit I may have been wrong. to err is human…

    But my GGS search engine still not showing any results for this term 'waheguru'
    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?…

    Sher

  32. Sher says:

    Wiki tells us:'

    "In Sikh scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, the term does not figure in the compositions of the Gurus, though it occurs therein, both as Vahiguru and Vahguru, in the hymns of Bhatt Gayand, the bard contemporary with Guru Arjan, Nanak V (1553-1606), and also in the Varan of Bhai Gurdas.

    "Waheguru", and its variant "Wahguru", appear only 18 times in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Wahguru occurs twice on Ang 1403 and once on Ang 1404"

    The word 'Hari' appears 8344 times (!!!!) in GGS, '

    The word 'Ram' on the other mentioned some 2533 times.

    'Mohammad' does find mention in GGS at all while Allah ……

    Waheguru 18 times and of these nine times on just one page. am I correct?

    Sher

  33. Secular Indian says:

    fact is, india will never give up kashmir.in fact no country will give up its land so easily. and it is also true that independence for kashmir is not viable. what would the map look like? would only indian kashmir get azaadi, or pok as well? pak will never give up pok (because then they would have no border with china).

    in india, jammu and ladakh would prefer to remain with india, so only the valley would secede. Would a small valley of 4 million people, surrounded by 3 nuclear armed countries be prosperous? a small country surrounded by 3 larger, more powerful countries, would become more like afghanistan, (i.e. run over by foreign troops for their own political agendas).

    kashmiris only have two choices: go with india. or go with pakistan. to see which is better for you, just compare IJK and POK. Even after all these human rights violations that occur in Indian side (which must be condemned), IJK is still much more prosperous than POK. And how many of you know that there is a secession movement in POK who want independence from Pakistan? That news just gets suppressed.

    Recent polls in Kashmir show that 60% of people want independence from both India and Pak. 20% want to be with India. 10% want to be with Pakistan. Remaining 10% believe none of the above is a viable solution.

    So status quo seems to be the only option. Now what needs to be done immediately is, we must find better ways to deal with protests. Protests will happen, you cannot suppress them. They happen everywhere in the world. We must ensure that no innocent lives are lost! We can try to disperse them in other non-lethal methods. We must look into that a.s.a.p.

    And we must start a political reconciliation process with Kashmiris. If autonomy within the Indian constitution is the answer, then so be it. Then we need to bring more investment into Kashmir. And we need to reduce the presence of Indian army in Kashmir. For THIS to happen we need to start talks with Pakistan and build trust between the two countries, and work towards a solution to the Kashmir dispute (i.e. both countries accepting status quo).

  34. H S says:

    Sher, unlike you people here are not a full time employee hired by RSS to distort and intentionally try and concoct the Sikh history. Your bloody RSS [Radical Satanic Sangh] came up with an article written by a brahmin ( one Tiwari) calling Harmandar Sahib as Shiva's abode and advicing Jathedars to wear dhoti instead of kurta pyjama. Your religion only knows how to create myths and then project that myth as the only genuine history on earth. Before trying to concoct Sikh history with your BS, first try to resolve your own religion's maze (or a myth?). There are loads and loads of contradiction within Hinduism, if you like to call that a religion at first place. When you Hindus are not able to answer some question when it targets the authenticity of your so called religion, then you resort to cheap tactic of calling names as here in this article: "http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/hindu/TTF4DU99P2NODJOPF"

    Try clearing the maze or myth that is Hinduism first, then question others' religion you:

    "http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/a_hindu_woman/answertohindu.html"

    "http://slumz.boxden.com/f175/flaws-hindu-scriptures-601994/"

  35. H S says:

    Sher aka RSS Sanghi here are some points for you:

    1. In Purush Sukta of Rigveda (10/90/1) God is described as having thousands of heads, eyes and feet.

    2. Hiranayagarbh Sukta of Rigveda says that in the beginning of the universe there was only Hiranyagarbh (the Almighty God). He was the Lord of all beings. He set earth and the sky at their present places (Rigved, 10/121/1). God blessed the beings with strength. All the deities obey His commands. Even death is under His command. He is the Lord of all beings and animals. This Rigveda also stresses God’s Attributes such as Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent and the Master of Salvation.

    3. Swetambar Upanishad (618) sheds some light on the body-figures of God. “He has no body, no soul, no senses. Nobody is even equal to him.” “He is the Almighty God. He is the protector of the whole creation. He is exempt from hunger, thirst, grief and death.”

    When the Hindu scriptures say that God is one and exempt from birth and death, then the question arises why is He defined as having a body. Is it not contradictory?

    The Rigveda also suggests that “Prajapati” is the Almighty God of Hindus. But Atharvaveda (7/3/26/1) says, “Vishnu created earth, heaven and space.” In the Mandukya Upanishad (6) Brahma is described as the creator of earth, heaven and space. What a contradiction!

    The study of Rigveda, Athravaveda and various Upanishads suggests that Brahma and Vishnu are described as two almighty gods. But the great surprise is that these scriptures describe god as exempt from birth in one place, while in the other they describe him tied to wordly bonds.

    4. According to Shiv Mahapuram (6/1/19), Brahma and Vishnu used to fight to prove their respective superiority. Brahma says that he created Vishnu, but Vishnu says that he created “Lotus” from his navel which in turn gave birth to Brahma.This conflict turned to a terrible battle between them.

    Besides Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, thirty-three gods are also described in the Vedas. Today their number has reached thirty-three crore (330,000,000). This means that every third person of India has his own god!

  36. H S says:

    Sher aka RSS Sanghi I could go on and on to counter your BS, but alas I am not a hired RSS zealot to concoct history of other religion to try and prove so called religion (or myth?) Hinduism as superior. In short I don't poke my nose intentionally to create problems for my own fundamental questions as you are doing. Your one question raises a mountain of questions for your so called religion 'Hinduism', however in spite of knowing that you are one shameless creature with no dignity and self respect.

  37. Secular Indian says:

    fact is, india will never give up kashmir.in fact no country will give up its land so easily. and it is also true that independence for kashmir is not viable. what would the map look like? would only indian kashmir get azaadi, or pok as well? pak will never give up pok (because then they would have no border with china).

    in india, jammu and ladakh would prefer to remain with india, so only the valley would secede. Would a small valley of 4 million people, surrounded by 3 nuclear armed countries be prosperous? a small country surrounded by 3 larger, more powerful countries, would become more like afghanistan, (i.e. run over by foreign troops for their own political agendas).

    kashmiris only have two choices: go with india. or go with pakistan. to see which is better for you, just compare IJK and POK. Even after all these human rights violations that occur in Indian side (which must be condemned), IJK is still much more prosperous than POK. And how many of you know that there is a secession movement in POK who want independence from Pakistan? That news just gets suppressed.

    Recent polls in Kashmir show that 60% of people want independence from both India and Pak. 20% want to be with India. 10% want to be with Pakistan. Remaining 10% believe none of the above is a viable solution.

    So status quo seems to be the only option. Now what needs to be done immediately is, we must find better ways to deal with protests. Protests will happen, you cannot suppress them. They happen everywhere in the world. We must ensure that no innocent lives are lost! We can try to disperse them in other non-lethal methods. We must look into that a.s.a.p.

    And we must start a political reconciliation process with Kashmiris. If autonomy within the Indian constitution is the answer, then so be it. Then we need to bring more investment into Kashmir. And we need to reduce the presence of Indian army in Kashmir. For THIS to happen we need to start talks with Pakistan and build trust between the two countries, and work towards a solution to the Kashmir dispute (i.e. both countries accepting status quo).

  38. H S says:

    Sher, unlike you people here are not a full time employee hired by RSS to distort and intentionally try and concoct the Sikh history. Your bloody RSS [Radical Satanic Sangh] came up with an article written by a brahmin ( one Tiwari) calling Harmandar Sahib as Shiva's abode and advicing Jathedars to wear dhoti instead of kurta pyjama. Your religion only knows how to create myths and then project that myth as the only genuine history on earth. Before trying to concoct Sikh history with your BS, first try to resolve your own religion's maze (or a myth?). There are loads and loads of contradiction within Hinduism, if you like to call that a religion at first place. When you Hindus are not able to answer some question when it targets the authenticity of your so called religion, then you resort to cheap tactic of calling names as here in this article: "http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/hindu/TTF4DU99P2NODJOPF"

    Try clearing the maze or myth that is Hinduism first, then question others' religion you:

    "http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/a_hindu_woman/answertohindu.html"

    "http://slumz.boxden.com/f175/flaws-hindu-scriptures-601994/"

  39. H S says:

    Sher aka RSS Sanghi here are some points for you:

    1. In Purush Sukta of Rigveda (10/90/1) God is described as having thousands of heads, eyes and feet.

    2. Hiranayagarbh Sukta of Rigveda says that in the beginning of the universe there was only Hiranyagarbh (the Almighty God). He was the Lord of all beings. He set earth and the sky at their present places (Rigved, 10/121/1). God blessed the beings with strength. All the deities obey His commands. Even death is under His command. He is the Lord of all beings and animals. This Rigveda also stresses God’s Attributes such as Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent and the Master of Salvation.

    3. Swetambar Upanishad (618) sheds some light on the body-figures of God. “He has no body, no soul, no senses. Nobody is even equal to him.” “He is the Almighty God. He is the protector of the whole creation. He is exempt from hunger, thirst, grief and death.”

    When the Hindu scriptures say that God is one and exempt from birth and death, then the question arises why is He defined as having a body. Is it not contradictory?

    The Rigveda also suggests that “Prajapati” is the Almighty God of Hindus. But Atharvaveda (7/3/26/1) says, “Vishnu created earth, heaven and space.” In the Mandukya Upanishad (6) Brahma is described as the creator of earth, heaven and space. What a contradiction!

    The study of Rigveda, Athravaveda and various Upanishads suggests that Brahma and Vishnu are described as two almighty gods. But the great surprise is that these scriptures describe god as exempt from birth in one place, while in the other they describe him tied to wordly bonds.

    4. According to Shiv Mahapuram (6/1/19), Brahma and Vishnu used to fight to prove their respective superiority. Brahma says that he created Vishnu, but Vishnu says that he created “Lotus” from his navel which in turn gave birth to Brahma.This conflict turned to a terrible battle between them.

    Besides Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, thirty-three gods are also described in the Vedas. Today their number has reached thirty-three crore (330,000,000). This means that every third person of India has his own god!

  40. H S says:

    Sher aka RSS Sanghi I could go on and on to counter your BS, but alas I am not a hired RSS zealot to concoct history of other religion to try and prove so called religion (or myth?) Hinduism as superior. In short I don't poke my nose intentionally to create problems for my own fundamental questions as you are doing. Your one question raises a mountain of questions for your so called religion 'Hinduism', however in spite of knowing that you are one shameless creature with no dignity and self respect.

  41. Grewal says:

    3 cheers for Azad Kashmir, Khalistan and Gorkhaland….though we know we are not gonna get them anyways

  42. Grewal says:

    3 cheers for Azad Kashmir, Khalistan and Gorkhaland….though we know we are not gonna get them anyways

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