Simmering Sikhs
The Economic Times of India in its ‘Special Pages’ section last week carried an extended article titled Simmering Discontent: Sikhs in Punjab are fighting many wars.
The article sought to understand the ‘current and cross-currents’ of Punjabi society.
At the forefront were:
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The rise of the Dera-complex – the article cites that over 10 Deras in Punjab currently have over 100,000 followers, the largest being Dera Sacha Sauda, but the actual number of smaller Deras is almost infinite, only limited by the number of actual villages in Punjab
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The burning issue of caste
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Rising unemployment and the stagnation of the Green Revolution economy
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Drug Addiction
While the journalist, Praveen Thampi is most interested in asserting his political point:
“Punjab has burning issues to address. But the only people interested in revival of the Khalistan movement are the journalists coming down from Delhi.”
Although quoting another journalist about this issue, Thampi falls into the same trap. Instead of finding solutions and proposals for these burning problems, Thampi wants to waive the ‘Khalistan’ boogeyman to sensationalize his news.
So using some of the information, Thampi uncovers I humbly submit some of my thoughts on these four problems and invite other readers to comment, disagree, and suggest their own.
The rise of the Dera Complex, by all analysis, seems tied to the failing of the SGPC establishment and widespread casteism that infects the Sikh polity. While hardly a secret, everyone that understands Punjab’s politics knows that central is the delinking of the SGPC to the state political apparatus, the Akali Dal. The Akali Dal often uses and abuses these religious charity funds for its own purposes that doesn’t not include the original purposes of the donations. Sikhs need to begin thinking of ways to assert the SGPC’s prominence and independence.
The burning issue of caste may actually warrant in my opinion more attention than the problem of the rise of the Dera Complex as so long as this problem continues, the revolutionary message of Guru Nanak rings hollow on the ears of the oppressed. At the Gurdwara, I once heard a speaker say “From the Qaum of Bhai Lalo, we have turned into the Qaum of Malik Bhago.” Few words could have been so apt. For those Khalsa organizations, they should be making sincere efforts to begin dialogue with heroic individuals such as Bant Singh. This was the reason for the success of the Singh Sabha Movement. This is why they succeeded, while other puritanical movements failed to bring along the masses. However, no more lipservice. The responsibility falls on each individual Sikh’s own responsibility to end this plague. Hiding behind notions of ‘celebrating my family’ that somehow translates to a ‘caste-family’ are antithetical to Sikh beliefs. Sikhs will have to answer that question – what is more important – to celebrate their ‘caste’ or actually live up to the ideals of our Gurus. I hope the Sikh youth lead this effort in breaking down these barriers. I was dismayed by the comments by Jathedar Vedanti:
Well, relaxing in his hostel room, with his private secretary keenly moderating his master’s voice, preacher Vedanti has this much to say:
“The caste problem is deep-rooted and people are not able to rise above their prejudices. It is here that we have to make a difference. The schedule caste/dalits also have an inferiority complex, which they should overcome.”
Such comments to me seem as a complete abdication of responsibility. If THIS is NOT the issue that he can tackle, but can only resort to others overcoming an ‘inferiority complex,’ then the Sikh masses should rethink his ability to fulfill the responsibility of his position.
Rising unemployment has been a known problem in Punjab. Rabbi Shergill in his Jugni, stated “Jugni jaa vadi punjab, jithey padhe likhe bekaar” (Jugni goes to the Punjab, where the educated are unemployed.” Thampi quotes statistics from the Finance Minister of Punjab, saying that as of December 31, 2005, the number of unemployed youth in the state is 463,229 where 358,672 have at least a bachelor’s degree (for some reason, I believe these are VASTLY under-reported numbers). The NRP (non-resident Punjabis) may be able to facilitate massive opportunities in the private sector, if the economic willpower is there. Having spoken to some entrepreneurs, they often claim of Punjab’s poor political bureaucracy that is much more interested in it’s bribes, than any progress in the state.
While I enjoyed the promotion of Nanak Kheti, I do believe that this is an interim solution. The economies of the world have moved towards industrialization and service-based economies. I believe that somehow Punjab must find a niche in this world-system. Some may argue that Punjab need not follow the path of other nations and this may be a worthwhile discussion, but at present to me it seems that Punjab must find it’s niche in the world-system or continue with its declining station in world economies. Agriculture may be the basis of the catapult, but I am not convinced that it can remain the primary basis of the economy.
Drug addiction is a huge problem that is on wide-display for any who have traveled Punjab’s rural areas. I was shocked that the World Drug Report, released by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) in 2007, listed Punjab as the world’s Number 1 transit point for opium. The end of the misogynist Taliban regime had worldwide consequences, few greater than what happened to Punjab. The rural youth are addicted to their bhukhe and dode. Tackling the distribution (which is often tied to political channels) as well as treatment for the devastated families and communities should be the focus of Sikh organizations.
Too often I hear Sikhs lament about the lack of a ‘third choice’ outside of the normal Akali/Congress politics. However, too few are willing to BECOME that ‘third choice.’ Instead they look for messiahs and saviors to be released from jails, but are unwilling to actually become part of the change they seek. I do hope that these groups make inroads to sincerely address the concerns of heroes like Bant Singh and others to begin addressing these issues. If any Sikhs or Sikh groups genuinely take on these four issues, they will be surprised to see themselves become the ‘third choice.’
Again, these are my humbly submissions and thoughts on these four problems and I invite other readers to comment, disagree, and suggest their own.
Random Posts
The Jatt supremacist mentality will lead to more violence in Punjab. It’s hard for those entrenched and priveliged to have their privelige challenged by the downtrodden. I expect to see a conflagration soon, more violence, machine gunning murder of innocents, bombings, this is the only possible outcome for those of this self-pitying fundamentalist, blame-everyone-else caste nightmare mindset. They’ll turn Punjab into an abbatoir again, mark my words.
What about Sex ratio? Longing for a male child is what brings thousands of bibiaan to the deras.
I am disappointed by your comments Mr.Sarbloh about the Jat Sikhs. Sikhs are the Sikhs. There is no distinction amongst Sikhs, as per the Sikh philosophy, “Hindu Caste System” Guru Sahib aboilished on April 13, 1699. The real Sikhs that you call Jat Sikhs, always sacrificed the most for Sikh Faith. Others as per the indication of your Hindu mind, tried to achieve their goals, if any, thru deceit.
i totally agree more soundly and deeply with the author…mr ajit singh i agree to u as well but the reality on the ground is what makes the difference..
wud you allow your beloved daughter to marry another NON-jat sikh community…i know its never..let alone into altogether different community
i know guru sahib has abolished many things but in absence of another true gursikh leader our community has treaded in wrong potjoles along the way…
why it took a decade for SGPC to identify child infanticide as a problem…
i worked in the sikh medical institute in punjab in medical and administrative field and i have witnessed that still sikhs are unequal among themselves…
an amazingly learned
an astonishingly strong and hard working community why we are fighting a loosing battle..
acc to me the answer wud be…
1.failure of farming sector and every government’s ignorance
2.unemployment=drugs, violence
3.lack of an entowering true gursikh personality in our political system and rise of dera system
yet i know akalpurkh still will help us rebuilt our society religiously and financially…
but we have to wake up to our problems….
waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru jiki fateh
I totally and utterly agree with Sarbloh. Check it out for yourself – all major Gurdwara committees are Jatt-only. No other castes are allowed.(Jatts are not fools either they will always have a token non-Jatt in the committee) I was personally chucked out for being the wrong caste. No wonder the Deras and caste based Gurdwara’s are flourishing.
Yes the Jatts are brave and good fighters but in their ego and selfishness they have swung the pendulum too far for the well being of the Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s Sikhi!
Tari
Caste mentaility and yes Jatt pride are a massive problem amongts Punjabi Sikhs. Even the ones abroad will leave SIkh but not leave their caste…
I think we need to just focus on the youth…there is nothing we can really do about the older generation as they are stuck in their ways.
The Deras are not a problem at all. They infact are the sole providers of spiritual fulfilment for the people as the SGPC is doing jack all. If the Deras weren’t there then there is a possibility that Christian missionaires would be all over Punjab..
Blesings
P
I think what we ” PUNJABIS” have lost is our character. We know no ethics or good manners. Allmighty “Rupee” is going to take us all down.
The youth needs to wake up ( The older generation is hopeless) and start discussing and confronting this monster before we will loose all our strengths and become a joke for all.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH SARBLOH, AS WE ALL KNOW THE BIGGEST PROBLEM CREATOR IN SIKHS ARE JATT SIKHS,THEY ARE THE FIRST WHO HAVE DIVIDED SIKHS AND ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOSS TO THE COMMUNITY. I THINK WE THE REST OF THE SIKHS IN INDIA AND PUNJAB SHOULD BOYCOTT THESE JATTS AND SHOULD STOP PAYING ANY OFFERINGS TO THE GURUDWARS HELD BY JATTS.
AT THE SAME TIME AN ORGANISATION SHOULD STAND UP MIXED WITH LEADERS FROM REST OF THE INDIA AND START DOING AMRIT SANCHAAR IN THE REST OF THE SIKHS AND MAKE THEM STRONG IN ETHICS THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY CASTE ONWARDS OTHER THAN ‘SINGH’.IF XTIAN CONVERTS ANYONE INTO XTIANITY THEN THERE IS NO CASTE IN THEM WHY THIS SYSTEM IS NOT THERE IN SIKHS,ALTHOUGH GURU NANAK TO GURU GOBIND SINGH TRIED IT HARD.WHAT THE [deleted by ADMIN] JATTS CAN’T UNDERSTAND GURUS TEACHINGS AND DIVIDING SIKHS.
ON THE OTHER HAND THEY ARE NOT SMART EITHER,IF THEY WOULD HAVE THIS WOULD NOT BE THE RESULT OF PUNJAB WITH ALL JATTS OFF THEIR PAGRI.
ACTUALLY ARE THESE JATTS ARE SIKHS BECAUSE THEY MOSTLY ARE monna[hindu],WHY WE CALL THEM JATT SIKHS ANYWAY?????????? SHOULD BE CALLED monna JATT.
KING SINGH
Actually I respectfully DISAGREE with Sarbloh and King Singh. The biggest problem is us fighting and trying to put each other down. Every OCCUPATION within sikhs has made a positive contribution. It is not only Jatts, but SO CALLED “low caste” sikhs (I do not believe in caste system) have made great contributions in wars. (Sikh Light Infantry is basically non Jatt and they have done a great Job).
If we sikhs will degrade each other, we can expect much worse from others.
“AWWAL ALLA NOOR UPAYO, KUDRAT KE SAB BANDE
EK NOOR TE SAB JAG UPJYA, KAUN BHALE KO MANDE”
(Please pardon me if there is any mistake in the quotation above)
It is the man made divides that have brought all this hatred amongst us.
Most of us are not our caste by choice ( I say this because some people change their surname to reflect a different caste for reasons best understood by them).
Most of us are sikhs or Hindus or christians or … by birth.
The way I look at sikhs and other religions is:
===============================================
Just like we are born of parents, we are also born into a religion and/or caste.
We have a sense of ownership and pride in it.
I would admit that I love my religion more than I love other religions.
It would be natural because of my sense of belonging to it.
But I DO love other religions.
It is like sikh religion is my parent and all sikhs are my siblings,
and people belonging to other religions are like my first cousins.
I love them too, but I just happen to love my siblings a little bit more.
Hatred begeth hatred. Please let us not do it to each other.
Jatinder
what fools are human beings, even after of knowing everything still continue to fight among themselves. All the 10 gurus must be wondering up there tht what foolish people they have let loose on earth..
Dear ProjectNaad,
Although I have a number of issues with the rise of the Dera syndicates, you raise a potentially powerful counterargument that I had never before considered. If I am understanding your argument, you are positing that the rise of Dera culture has somehow stemmed the rise of Christianity. How do you believe that this has occurred?
I think we are now a big religion.
There is no point putting our woes on each other.
LET US RESPECT EACH OTHER FOR WHAT EVER WE ARE.
let us not be jalous of each others sucess but let us get aspired from one other and the world at large after all we are SIKHS and to keep onlearning ils our duty from what ever source.
Some of us will be individualistic and some may operate as group.
We cannot lay down a standard policy for all.
Most Jobs will require group like activites thee day from farming to making cars,aeroplane,launching space missions except may be for winning a Nobel prize.
So let us encourage formation of groups by what ever means which suits us to work as a group scientist/technologist/castes/Deras etc etc.
Do what ever suits you the most.
IF you like war then be a warrior where jobs are going abbeging ( Jatts/SIkh-li traits).
If you like being a technologist then invent ( Ramgarhias /jatts traits).
If you like being entrepruners then set up Industries ( Bhappas/ramgarhia traits)
IF you like farming then be a farmer ( JATTS traits)
IF you like education then open up engineering / medical colleges.( All groups traits)
If you like sports the be a good sportsman ( all group )
This is to say let us not curse each other or
one is not destined to do a Jobs in which family one is born. Do waht suits you the most.
We may compete amongst our selves to see who is the best but remember this is not a competion of annihilation of one group or the other
Also I had say guard India in a carefully at all levels ,dimenison and from it known sworn enemies;
As most of our spirituality and history lives here,
All that is in Pakistan is DEAD and I see no immediate revival of it in near future gilven the records of AL -Queda like groups.
At the end remeber that there sciences tells us that there are infinite Universes and so there is enough that Wahe guru has made for all his children from what ever caste /religion/race he may belong.
Dont worry you over short patches of rough rides you are all divinely blessed by being AKALIS (the timeless people )
This note does not refer to any individual:
Sikhs are not only divided among Jatts, Ramgariahs, khatris and many others. We can not close our eys to it. Our leaders make use of split in politics.
Dera are flourishing as our Jathedars are not able to deliver essence of Sikhi to masses. These deras are result of our weakness and not their strength.
What we practice in our daily life is not anything close to sikhi.
Sikhi is the most simple and truthful, We are making it difficult and impossible by so called maryadas, egos and politics.
Instead of ego of people to show the difference people have invented a new class of Gursikhs (See martimonials?)
We have to recognize our weaknesses and only then we can try to ammend. But due to our inflated egos we jump on defence and do not accept any variance in interpretations instead of thinking out of box.
Please think a little?
HK
Projectnaad
You present an extremely powerful counterargument and more so since the menace of christian missionaries is seeping into the fabric of rural punjab more than ever before.
But dont you think we are compromising on one evil for another?
I remember recently going to a friend’s place who is a JATT sikh and constantly heckled by his mother, who wanted to know my ethnicity. She only got off my back when i told her i had JATT lineage.
I dont believe in caste system and where i grew up (Delhi) we hardly discussed our surnames and our lineages. It doesnt matter who you are, but what matter is that you are a gursikh!
I think time is nigh and we should stop using our surnames while introducing ourselves. That is what guru gobind Singh jee and other 9 gurus sermoned us.
Sarbloh, you are trolling!
Tari, I doubt you were chucked out for being the wrong caste! (Good ol’ politics, maybe!)
projectnaad, you want ppl to leave their caste? How can I, when everyone keeps reminding me who I am!
king singh, typing in all CAPS. I don’t talk to ppl like you.
The 4 of u don’t sound like much of bridge builders. If you were jatts, you would be full of the same pride that you have now. I doubt anyone wakes up in the morning and says, my caste sucks! As for you 4 being above caste, I present my only argument: All 4 of you know what caste you are, (whether you write your last name or not), don’t u? Then you are all not sikhs (by your own yardstick).
Finally, this whole caste issue is completely overplayed. Caste system means that only a brahman can read the scriptures, bania may trade, khatri may make war, and so on and so forth. Sikhism has completely eliminated caste system. Everyone is free to practice their trade, use any water well, read scripture. Its not like anyone is forbidden from anything based on their caste. We sikhs are FREE OF CASTE! (I’d say 99%)
If your yardstick is who’s allowed to marry whom, then my answer to you is that there are tonnes of jatt sikhs i’d not get married to. I am jatt sikh btw. Ever read the matrimonial section lately. How many are looking for a caste match. Geez! Even the Akhand Kirtani Jatha ppl marry within their own jatha. Does that make them casteist. How many ppl in each of you 4’s families is married outside your own caste? Especially to anyone that you perceive lower than you in social order.
Holier than thou attitude will not open any doors. Nor will it solve any problems faced by sikhs.
We the “so-called” Sikhs-the followers of the Great Gurus are proving us the biggest dis-obedient. The Tenth Guru vehementally declared that when the sikhs go disobedient, He is not going to defend them “Main Na Karoon inh ki parteet”. He ordered us not to kill daughters. We are number one in killing daughters in womb. He asked us to shun caste. We feel proud in declaring ourselves, Jatts, Ramgarhias, etc.etc. He asked us to stay away from Tobacco and other intoxicants, come to Punjab and see for yourself the sixth river of the intoxicants is flowing. He ordered us to live pure life but see for yourself the sikhs are synonym with characterlessness. Time to introspect. Otherwise Guru is not going to forgive us here in this Lok as well as Parlok.
Can we raise the level of this conversation?
Yelling about certain castes has been done many times. There are plenty of boards for that and I can refer you to them, if you please.
However, in this post, Jodha has made his analysis of the problems that Punjab faces. What are the ways out?
Caste is DEFINITELY a problem. However, it is 1 problem. What are solutions to it (other than yelling at certain people)? Intercaste marriage is ONE possibility? What are other solutions and possibilities?
Also in the article, although not stressed by Jodha, is the fact of large streams of immigration labor coming from areas such as UP and Bihar. I am not against immigrant labor as so many of us that are overseas probably came to where we are due to the same pushes and pulls. However, is the current caste problems in Punjab exacerbated by non-land-owning rural labor (read Sikhs) being pushed out by the cheaper labor from areas such as UP and Bihar at the behest of land-owning Sikh farmers?
Also what are real possibilities for moving beyond the Green Revolution economy?
Please, brothers and sisters, let us raise ourselves to begin having a constructive dialogue rather than the same rehash that is on too many other sites. Let TheLangarHall be a place where we move beyond yelling, screaming, and cursing to have meaningful commentary.
I do not think Jatt Sikhs or any other Sikhs are to blame. What I want to blame is the livestyles we are leading. Because we lead such busy lifestyles, there is no time for reflection or research. Furthermore, Anti-Sikh forces have moved into our gurdwaras..now the Indian students outnumber the locals in our gurdwaras. Are they really Sikh or could they be false Sikhs. We have forces working from within to destroy our religion.
Sikhs, I would say,also do lack a thinking and reasoning ability generally..They seem not to want to think for themselves. They can be led in whichever direction someone wants to take them. This has been my experience in my gurdwara. This can come from a caste based alignment or region based alignment.
Deras have sprung for this very reason. Reason seems to have left the sangats and committees in gurdwaras. So to bring some control as to what should happen, these deras have sprung up, not necessarily always for the best.
I dont know how u can call some one as false SIKh.
Gurdwara please remeber has four doors for the whole mankind.
have you heard the Guru ji turnng back any one who came to Gurdwara door.
It is my feelilng that Let us practise SIKHI as a GLOBAL RELIGION and not one owned by the first comers like the Khatris/Jatts/Ramgarhia/Ravidass etc tec.
We must keep our self open to all and every one with out malaice or history distorting our vision of universal brother hood.
Love harinder
Sikhs are simmering,because they are ill informed,not courageous enough to call a spade a spade,are having so many taboos,like sharing their encestors property with their sisters,are poor machos,are not ready to give in,living in a dream world.Most of the young men do not want to leave the security provided by the joint family,do not want to risk+ raise their voice for the social justice for all.They are not interested in a change while they are neutral to the local politics and are always thinking to get rich quickly even at the cost of the others.
For a better world,we have to be better men(women).
Well well… simmering sikhs eh – it seems like we’re all boiling ourselves
Love the discussion – it’s so funny to sit and read a debate all the way through…
and you know what…
“what fools are human beings, even after of knowing everything still continue to fight among themselves. All the 10 gurus must be wondering up there tht what foolish people they have let loose on earth..”
right on! lol
Okay sarcasm aside – seriously knowing all that you know from this post do you really think that Khalistan is a valid solution to the problems in the Punjab?
The rise of the Dera-complex – if they provide a means for spirituality… what’s the problem with that? (apart from people being foolish and handing over their family jewels to mere mortals)
The burning issue of caste – would I marry my daughter into a ‘jatt’ family – I wouldn’t marry my daughter into any ‘family’ marriage is the union of two souls – the soul is void oof caste. Yes I know this is idealistic but if we don’t look to ideals for solutions then we’re wasting our time talking in the first place.
Rising unemployment and the stagnation of the Green Revolution economy – this is a subject I know little about how about punjabi’s trying to build self sustaining economies again akin to MK Gandhi’s vision of independance rather than running the rat race? I dunno
Drug Addiction – EDUCATION! at an early age about the effects of drugs and yes employment and mothers please stop pampering your sons make them work for a living (how many women v’ men are on drugs in India?)
We do need to RESPECT each other – before that we need to respect ourselves. Can we do that? Yes. How? by not giving into the demands of capitalism, to our personal desires (five vices), etc etc – will we do it? nah doubt it innit
ps.
I dunno why we’re even still talking about the ‘caste’ system. It’s a Hindu philosophy – a mechanism used by brahmins to gain control over society some 3000 years ago – why the hell are we still talking about it? What’s it got to do with Sikhs? if the singh sabha movement are using sikhi to progress they ‘jattism’ why do we still follow their doctrines in the name of ‘rehat maryada’?
the person that asked the question would you marry your daughter into a different ‘caste’? yeah if she were a doctor and he were a lawyer they’d be different castes wouldn’t they – but no one batts an eylid to that one so what difference does it make whether our ancestors were farmers or carpenters?
harinder kaur ji – ramgharia is not a caste – it’s a weirdo hindufied sect of sikhism
they are supposedly descendents of the ‘famous’ Jassa Singh Ramgharia – but these days they’re usually a bunch of elitist kenyans who fled india and strangly found some sort of supremecy in africa 
ps. Yes I can say that – because I’m married into such a ‘family’
okay maaf karna – my cheekiness has crossed quite a few boundaries this morning – I had a bad journey into work.
humble apologies – sincerely – but really let’s all think about why we’re still sitting here talking about these issues. I think (and I am a part of this) it is because we haven’t won our own fight against our own five vices.
how can you all sit here and openly attack a community that has given its blood sweat and tears for the rise of the Khalsa. The Jatts came into prominence as Banda Singh Bahadur gave those farmers with lands more and more acerage to become zameendars. The point is that Jatts are a tale of Punjab…their culture, their lifestyle of hardwork and effort is in the very dirt of Punjab. You all sit here and argue about this issue, you cant forget that Jatts have been around far longer than Sikhism, so has Punjab. Being a Sikh of Punjabi Jatt descent how do you expect me to suddenly forget my culture, my ancestry, my heritage and be ONLY Sikh. As a Jatt, I do not hate on others, or discriminate and when I may slip in this context it is no more than any other person. What have Jatts done wrong? the stereotype is what? they all cut their hair, they all drink, they all form gurudwara committiees comprised of only jatts? You have a majority community…when a few do something wrong it seems like all of them do. Many prominent Sikh leaders have come from Jatt backgrounds, what is wrong with that? Jarnail Singh himself is from a farming community and farmed until he was sent off to Damdami Taksal. All i ever notice is khatris/ bhappay whatever you may call people, always bashing jatts. You dont think we see it or hear it? I see khatris bashing jatts on not wearing full Khalsa uniform as these bhappay sit there and consume alcohol…..for them it has become all about the outside not the inside (gee, i think im making a generalized comment!). The point is do NOT jatt bash. They have done plenty for this community and it sickens me when those who are not jatt try so hard to say were all Punjabi Sikhs man theres no boundaries. We are all Sikh by faith, but by heritage and culture we can be an array of things, and there is nothing wrong with being proud of you heritage and background. As a punjabi, jatt, and Sikh it is only fair that I be proud of all 3 things. There are stories of jatt heroics, jatt legends…history even points to their roots of being a “Race” not some caste, since when do peasants become the top dogs? NEVER. jatts are a people, they look different from other communities, they have different ceremonies, different habits, different sub cultural points…all that points to the problem with jatt marriages with non jatts as their cultures and habits dont mix at times. A man from the village mixing with city folk (khatris) it is different. Those who follow so called “backward” castes, are followers of deras, and beleives bhagat ravidas is a guru…that is a religious conflict and why kid yourselves folks…its not Jatts that dont allow this…i know plenty of khatris who tell their kids you cant marry jatts they are bad people, etc. etc. etc.
dont blame jatts for all the problems, accept that their is a problem come together, UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT YOUR DIFFERENCES. acknowledge eachothers contributions but dont hate a community…its not my fault im born jatt its not your fault you are or are not.
“Being a Sikh of Punjabi Jatt descent how do you expect me to suddenly forget my culture, my ancestry, my heritage and be ONLY Sikh.”
Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Guru Granth sahib ji expect this of you.
Putting your anger to one side – your point raises valuable points about the relationship between religion and culture.
Can one be a Sikh and something else? or can we only be Sikhs. If so what defines us as sikhs. (please don’t talk to be about the rehat maryada – if you’re gonna then tell me about it’s origins first)
ps forget the last part of my last sentence.
the question is
Can one be a Sikh and something else? or can we only be Sikhs. What is the merit of culture? Does it have a place in Sikhi?
If you take a “SINGH” born outside of India, and I am referring to those who left in the 1800, who all wore Pagrees and carried a lathi at all times, You will find there is something in the bloodline, Brave, Hardworking, Honest, Charitable, and most important fixed in God, there is a similarity in pure Jatts and Pure Sikhs, They are blood brothers.
Here is the problem… Godless Brahmins penetrated and polluted the minds of those with Hindu Names, and in the process they began marrying their daughters, with NON SIKH names and some of them were good people, but there was a character defect, they were cast conscious , destroying the purity of the Religion, No regard for the 10th Guru.
These polluted daughters began to raise a new generation, and instead of producing Lions they were producing big wild cats, the so called Sikhs of today is a cross between a Lion and a wild Cat. And no amount of impure amrit or Baptismal could revive the purity,
The person administering the ceremony for Baptismal is NOT pure, then how on Gods earth can he produce Khalsas, they are nothing more than carbon copy Khalsas, and so they despise western Khalsas who are more pure and is spreading the religion to the world who built Sikhnet, while they fight amongst them selves, drink liquor and cut their hair and produce Rohanpreet Singh, on Zee TV to entertain a Godless class of polluted Sikhs. You would not find a western Khalsa making a mockery of Sikhism on Zee T.V.
All of this can be resolved if we follow the instructions of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Effective immediately NO baby will be given a cast conscious name, plain and simple they must be given their spiritual names “SINGHS” and Kaurs . And those with cast names MUST be weeded out from leadership positions, (Get raid of them or have them destroy their cast names, Please remember Polluted Brahmins with names like Sharma, Pathak, Trapiti destroyed the Vedic culture and destroyed the Vedic culture with cast conscious names. Our 10th Guru saw this , and Sikhism was born, but we are Killing Guru ji and in the process we will destroy Sikhi. Its called Maya
Always remember Sikh is Sikh he can never be jatt , ramgariya ,khatri
No body can proclaim that thier tibes did most for Shikism .
Khalsa is not tribes(jatt , ramgariya ,khatri) its Akhal purakh ki fauj . Khalsa is pious , brave , super intellectual human being having wisdom of ocean .
Guru Gobind Singh told “Rehat piyari mujh ko Sikh piyara nahi”
“Jab lag Khalsa raha niyra tab lag tej diu me sara
Jab hai gaye bipran ki rit maina karu en ki partit”
Guru always said “Manas ki jat sabhe ake phechanbo”
Those who bring castism in name of Sikhism to whichever tribes they belong they are False Sikh (Malech Khalsa).
“Sikhi Nu Sikha Toa Bacchow”
Protect Punjab from Sixth river of Drugs , Migrant Labour , Uneducation , Castism .
“Protect Punjab from Sixth river of Drugs , Migrant Labour , Uneducation , Castism”
HOW?!
Let us build a society of mutual respect and trust.
Let us not heap insult on each other for then how will we unite the world?
By insulting every man who is different from us.
That would make you loook like TALIBAN ( Regimented )with full of hate for difference.
SIkhi is a spiritual path and not a Gang or a military regiment.
You cannot make SIKHI into a straight Jacket stuff of dos and dont .
Let people be what they want to be.
“WAHEGUGU” loves all his children the hard working ,boozers,waywards ,drug addicts , black,white ,hindus,muslims ,christians,Jatts,Khatris ,martians , Ravidass , Ramgarhias , andromatians etc etc
for he is the “KARTA PURAKH “.
Let us practise “NIRVAIR ” to its highest level.
As for Jatts I dont think any one despises them ,
I think most are plain and simple Jealous of there qualities which few can mimick.
( I can say that from a Khatris view point )
I REPEAT
Can one be a Sikh and something else? or can we only be Sikhs. What is the merit of culture? Does it have a place in Sikhi?
If one is unable to answer this question – then the discussion about embracing or not embracing jatt / khatris / dog pooh collectors is futile.
Ps. Waheguru embraces rapists and perverts as well – should I open the door to my house for them too?
Sat Sri AKal
Well, Friends… In reality we all can share some episodes where we say that castism exist. Jats, Ramgariye, khatri,bhape, sikhs from Jammu and kasmir, Afganistan and so on… what is all this. this is just we are dividing sikhism into may caste. we all are sikhs.
instead of focusing on castism let us face the truth.. Hindus are making us a comic character. Making fun of sikhs whether he/she is jat/bhape. Look at our sisters they don’t want to marry a khalsa or sikh with a beard and turban. this is a real issue we have to come together and tell our leaders to bring the glory of Khalsa. Leaders in USA, UK, India should unite and should warn bollywood, tv channels and other media not to make fun of sikhs. we all can see in TV channels and in serials the family of sikhs but no turban no beard and depicting our sisters that they want to marry clean shaven boy.
Sikh Girls should understand it is only Sikh man who is brave and will respect her. TEll any coward hindu or muslim to stand in front of sikh boy and you can find the difference of Lion and donkey.
Please forgive me if i said something worng.
Brijinder
“Sikh Girls should understand it is only Sikh man who is brave and will respect her”
Forgive me but I have met a few – who DON’T understand what respect is! They don’t even appreciate women’s basic rights to dignity! respect taa(n) door di gal hoyee!
I could NAME three so called practicing Sikhs – but I shan’t slander or dirty their names. I’m sure they must have done a lot to promote ‘Sikhi’!
Times have changed dear Brijender.
[Deleted, keep your misogynistic stupidity to yourself - Admin].
Read some “India today” article on this issue and also visit some “Social net work clubs in metro ” ads in daily news paper.
Your closing eyes wil not change matter on earth.
It may get u a passport to ” SIKH heaven”
So take it easy and let people be what they want to be and as for superiortiy Waheguru created us all equal and loves all his children muslms ,hindus sikhs, chrisitans etc.
Please be loving and forgiving
“The Indian girl is today sleeping around with Tom ,dick and harry and is least bothered about things llike virginity etc which sound to them antedeluvian”
This is a gross generalisation – not ALL Indian women of today ’sleep around’. To some of us our viginity is extremely valuable (and completely intact) before marriage! Then we marry a ‘gursikh’ who reminds us that at the end of the day – he’s just a bloke – with the same stupid animalistic desires that all other men have and then you think ‘what the f***’?. But to some of us Harinder ‘ji’ our dignitiy is important! If you want the viewpoint of a woman born into a Sikh family then – sexuality is a very private and personal issue. It’s not one that is flaunted to or shared with millions. What goes on in our homes with our partners or selves remains there – we don’t intend to share it with the general public or with countless numbers of men!
If you are to compare to my comment above re: Sikh Men – I was referring solely to people that I know and not to the general Sikh male population!
Your comment about women wasn’t very loving and forgiving now was it?!
Jatts are a race.
The Jatt race started in the area around the caspian sea. Jatts can be found in Greece! There are Greek Jatts – that punjabi jatts share traits and characteristics with.
If we can have mexican sikhs, gore sikhs, peruvian sikhs, african american sikhs we can have jatt sikhs.
Broaden your scope to see beyond caste lines.
It seems like a waste of time to argue about such things. Live and let live. Who died and left you in charge to judge and criticize?
Unite under our similarities. Unite under sikhi and tackle problems that need solving. Start a movement and make a change – small or big.
Sitting at your computer arguing about jatts/khatri/ramgarhia is not going to solve anything.
who is that comment aimed at?
not all of us are talking about castes! Some of us have already said castes are a waste of time!
Who cares whether Jatt are a caste or a race? I’m Indian / punjabi and god knows what up the ancestorial line by race – but I care two tuppence! What I want to be is a Sikh. The two things are separate.
“Who died and left you in charge to judge and criticize?”
And who died and left you to ‘rectify the world’? We all have equal rights to speak our minds!
SSA
Harinder !! you have made a nice comment, that India women is sleeping with….Also JM i know sitting in front of your computer is not going to solve anything. This thinking is making us all sick. computer is way to share our views an iam not saying who wil start a movement…Brither u me and all other can make a difference if we change our thinking.
Harinder!! it is easy to say to read india today..I know what is happenign in Metros. it means you have also tasted them. I have written those comments so that tomorrow your sister / daughter would not be sleeping with Tom /Dick…
i want all of us to take step and atleast strta from our home, neighbours and town and city.. then we can make some difference. i am not making any comments so that you can not live ina a peace. God bless you to live in peace or it’s your life to live with those girls. i have my eyes open it’s you to open your eyes and if we are talking about indian girls .. your sis/mom is also indian so beware of using those words, and it’s not only for girls it’s for mens also. secondly no body made us incharge of giving suggestion to anybody if you want to live your life, live as you want but this is a medium where we are sharing our thoughts, a good thought can make a difference.
And there is a comment from somebody who has not mentioned name…yes there are few mens who don’t give respect to women’s.. that’s why i stressed we need to start from home to make changes.
Please forgive me if i hurt anybody..
Brijinder
Yes the internet is just a place for us to share thoughts. a person has to GIVE the respect first through their ACTIONS because at the end of the day words don’t mean a thing.
It’s so easy to say the word respect but if ones actions go against the words – there is no point in the words leaving ones mouth / or in this instance – keyboard.
goodbye
Sikhism means oneness
hi Brothers
Lets not devide the sikhism with castesm as this is a
ritual of Hindu religion, Our Guru gave one name to us Singh
and KAUR i have seen so many Sikhs are not following the path
of guru due to Ignorance , Even if Jatt or anybody else All Sikhs are equal
and lets not devide Sikhism like THese Hinduism is devided into castesm
Lets Avoid This and become Sikh of the Great Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji
and follow his path and show the world how great our guru and his
followers are:-
If you really wanna be a proud of “proud of to be a part of Sikhism
>> Proud to have a great guru
>>Proud to be a Sikh
We Are just Sikhs Nothing else !!!!!!
as said bu Guru ji
“KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS KHALSA MEIN HI KAROON NIVAS”
I was also living in the psyche that i am jatt so i am the best,i am the warrior, I should be one step ahead from other, i should do nitname and should go through all of the bani and follow guidelines of SRI guru granth sahib , beleave me i was living in this psyche that comes out of my fanaticism that i am best just because i am JATT But the truth is This I am best just because i am SIKH THATS IT NOTHING ELSE AND ALL THOSE WHO THINK THEIR FATHER IS SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH MATA SAHIB JI AS THEIR MOTHER ARE ONE STEP AHEAD FROM OTHERS ,,,,”SIKHISM IS A WAY OF LIVING NOTHING ELSE AND ANYBODY WHO FOLLOWS THE MORAL VALUES OF THE SIKHISM WILL BECOME ONE STEP AHEAD FROM THE ORDINARY MAN”
I urge you and all of my sikh dear brothers lets stop this nonsence and all dear jatts and others please start thinking that you are sikhs thats why you are the best. AND ANYBODY WHO WILL FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES OF SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI WILL BECOME OUTSTANDING.
“GHAREYEE SHABAD SACHEE TAKSAL”
EIHNEYAA BENTEYAA KARDA SAREYAAN NU JI SAARE KHARE HOOVOO TE EIS SOOCH NU KHATAM KAR DEYOO
“AGEYAA BHAYEE AKAL KE TABHEE CHALAIYOO PANTH AA SAB SIKHAN KO HUKM
HAI GURU MANEYOO GRANTH”
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
Guru Fateh !!
Mewa Singh you asked a very good point regarding solutions and apologies I did not include any in my earlier comment
To the following 4 issues of:
1) caste (driving a nail between Jatts and Dalits in India)
2) drug abuse crippling the youth
3) rising unemployment
4) dera phenomenon
We can also add:
5) alcohol consumption (highest out of all indian states)
6) female infantcide (highest out of all indian states)
First off let’s throw out all the stupid ideas that some Sikhs get, who think that everything will be okay if they get an independent country. So anyone shouting Khalisatn…don’t! It’s a stupid idea because its anti-Gurmat, sectionist, will cause potentially millions of deaths, will cause millions of pounds of loss to the Sikh community outside of Punjab and will remove access to some of the many important Gurdwaras and outside of Punjab. The largest community that died for India were Sikhs so we want access to ALL of India not just a tiny portion of it.
Now I’m going to take each of the points in turn, discuss the main points around these topics, possible solutions and possible outcomes if no remedial action is taken
ISSUE 1: CASTE
Sikhs in today’s world come from many different backgrounds, races, cultures and castes. To be a Sikh you don’t have to give up culture, your ancestry, your family traditions etc. When sikhi first started the Sikhs of Guru Nanak were either Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim…i.e. they held on to their own spiritual and cultural traditions but they used the message and teachings of the Guru in their lives to feel oneness with God.
Sikhism = unity in diversity as the Harmander Sahib as four entrances which open to the four corners of the world. However, the point about caste is NOT that we can’t be different and even keep our surnames, the point is that we shouldn’t shi*t on each other and discriminate against one another. Examples of discrimination include:
• parents not allowing inter-caste marriage (probably the biggest one)
• some Sikhs not allowing low caste members into their sangat and Gurdwaras (I didn’t believe this could ever happen until a bibi who had gone back to her village had told me that this was happening in a little village in Punjab)
SOLUTIONS:
• encourage inter-caste marriage for your children and siblings
• Support inter-caste marriage especially when you know a couple are having difficulties because their parents are giving them grief (if they are from different background) …do your bit and support them…quote from the guru granth sahib…see Indian culture leaflet on ProjectNaad website
• If you are single then consider marrying into a Sikh family of a different cultural / ethnic / caste background. Or consider meeting someone who is interested in spirituality and giving them the gift of sikhi and marrying them
• Get into management committees and as a Khalsa act as a change driver for society and do not allow people to bar or discriminate against Sikhs or non-Sikhs in a Gurdwara
WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON’T DO ANYTHING?
The ProjectNaad team met up with the chief editor of Dalit Voice and we raised the challenges that our Dalit Sikh brothers were facing by higher caste Sikhs in India. Before independence Sikhs that the opportunity of welcoming 25% of the Indian population into Sikhs Dharma i.e. the whole of the Dalit population and the Sikh community buckled and blocked the conversion (due to power politics). So we were asking if such an opportunity could arise again….obviously not but infact we were going in reverse as VT Rajshekar said that IF Dalits don’t get their equality then they will just leave Sikhs and that is what is happening at the moment but still in small numbers….they are moving to Buddhism and Christianity. Dalits by the way form a LARGE % of the Sikh population of Punjab and if they go it would be a big loss to the Dharma
Next issue…..
ISSUE 2: DRUGS
SOLUTIONS:
• Education from a young age about its affects on the body and what your fate will be if you take them…this needs state sponsorship ideally but even volunteers could go round to Gurdwaras and Temples and show the horrors of drug addiction. Key is to make it graphic and tell people about their condition if they went down this route. We need grass roots people to do this education seva and mix it with Sikh Parchar…
• For the people who are already smacked on drugs and nearing the road of death there is a solution for them too. Yogi Bhajan for the last 10-15 years had been asking the Punjab Government to allow him to setup 3HO Superhealth Programme in Punjab to help the youth on drug to break the habit. But the government denied him. The programme was designed by Western Sikhs and was implemented e.g. in Russia by the then president President Mikhail Gorbachev. The programme was recently trialled in Punjab but it should in my opinion be rolled out in higher numbers…also as you have to use Sikh mantras in the rehabilitation the people will most likely become Gursikh after their therapy!
WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON’T DO ANYTHING?
• We will end up effectively killing an entire generation of Sikh youth.
ISSUE 3: RISING UNEMPLOYMENT
• No economy can survive solely on agriculture alone. So the economy of Punjab needs to introduce new methods of wealth creation that will feed down from the lowest rungs of society all the way to the top. This would be the best wealth creation initiative as it would bring the whole of Punjab up in wealth. So how can Punjab diversify its wealth? Well I think its very simple actually. Firstly wealth is added by “doing work” on raw materials and so instead of just exporting fruits and vegetables, it can build the factories which create the raw ingredients into sauces, biscuits, ready made rotis, ready made foods, cereals, teas etc….Indian is fast becoming an industrialised nation and they too will be craving the time saving luxury food items. Note the government will not do this … this wealth will be created by savvy businessmen most likely NRI’s…who want to MAKE MONEY for themselves but at the same time will benefit the local economies and that is perfectly fine because that is the nature of business and corporate entities.
• IT IT IT….yes Punjab has an educated workforce and people skilled in Information technology such as JAVA, web development, HTML, XHTML, Phthon and all the other technologies that are driving our information age. WE hope in a couple of years with babas grace setup a software house in Punjab but we could make it bigger and create a Punjabi Silicon Valley and attract FDI into Punjab
• Punjabi people have a good command of the English language and so Call centres in Punjab could be another option as well as some of the other things that get outsourced to India such as ERP etc. Again Punjab can do with getting in on the action and again it will be private investors and business people who create these businesses NOT the state.
WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON’T DO ANYTHING?
• People who are unemployed will try to escape either through intoxicants or they will try to illegally get out of the country…and we have had soo many youth who have got stuck in random countries and suffered untold hardship. But I believe everything is in Punjab that we need to create Masses of wealth, including an educated workforce, land and food.
ISSUE 4: DERA PHENOMENON
• Ahh yes…this I reckon must the most upside down issue of them all. As I mentioned earlier I think that the DERA phenomenon is one of the BIGGEST blessings to Punjab! Why would I say this? Because the DERA Babas have created the perfect spiritual-economic-cultural models which continually and sustainabally grow and provide everything that people need including FREE health care which is unheard of in India, spiritual education, a loving community, an opportunity to experience spiritual awakening and in some cases jobs. For example the Dera Sacha Sauda accepts NO donations and they use their businesses to fund a school, hospital, many spiritual centres in Punjab etc. I say wow that’s a successful organisation and I want to copy that SAME model and use it to also spread the Gurus Light in India.
• The Deras are virtually the ONLY places where common folk can go and actually learn about Sikhi. People may go to a gurdwara but there is not a direct teaching experience that you get from a Sant figure in a Dera. So as Deras have kept people connected mainly with the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib they have saved those people from the dirty and nasty Christain missionaries who have always lusted after a piece of the Sikh population. There are now Indian Sardar Christians who openly preach the gospel of Jesus and convert many thousands. In one village the whole population almost converted!
• Deras have kept youth AWAY from drugs, alcohol and other nasties that the common people have got involved with
• I say thumbs up to Deras and the seva they do for the Punjabi community. And if you want to do Parchar of Sikhi in Punjab you need to CREATE micro-businesses and teach Sikhi at the same time and build self sufficient communities.
WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON’T DO ANYTHING?
• Deras provide a lifeline for people in terms of meeting their spiritual, economic, dietary and social needs. You don’t want to do anything to them except use their models to build more Sikh centric Deras.
ISSUE 5: ALCOHOL
• Teach people about Sikh and living a spiritual lifestyle. Men need to learn how coming home drunk and beating your wife is not a cool thing and how it keeps you poor.
• Possible introduction of Sikh Kundalini Yoga centres could be a good thing to get people active and peoples juices flowing while at the same time doing Naam Jaap. Also having non-Indian Sikh role models doing seva is a biog puller for SIkhi…no doubt our non-Indian sikh brothers and sisters will have an important role to play in future Punajb and its spiritual-financial-social-cultural fabric.
ISSUE 5: FEMALE INFANTICDE
• The Sikh population will automatically feel this as there are physically not enough women to marry the men…a painful lesson indeed. If we don’t sort this one out we are seriously screwed…lets pray for our not-so-smart Punjab folk.
I think that’s enough solutions from me…gotta take some action now
ProjectNaad
http://www.ProjectNaad.com
put quite simply let me state this. Everyone keeps writing…caste system…jatts are no caste there is no caste that divides whos better than the other, the only problem is a majority population and that is something the community must tackle. As for dalits and such its not that we all think they are dirty people, their beliefs have changed to include ravidass as a guru and their customs in Punjab seem to become borderline hindu, yes this is a problem we must tackle but at the same time is the biggest reason other people i.e Jatts dont marry dalits and so forth, it is cultural differences and their slightly skewed religious differences. It was stated above that we all come from different backgrounds, but we are all Sikhs so why cant we unite under that, I myself know that im a Jatt but i dont run around bragging about it, nor do i deny someone from eating with me or by me due to what their background may be, this whole issue is blown out of proportion. All of you sit here and talk about marrying other people…its more family pressure than anything your parents want you to marry someone whos family will fit in better with their background and quite honestly we all know in a Punjab marriage you are marrying the family not just the girl. Yes its wrong to have dalit / jatt gurudwara differences, and its wrong to exclude people we can fix that but being Punjabi Jatt that is our heritage and our culture…you cant take that away remember this that our Guru’s didnt want us to suddenly stop being cultured and become hardliners, Punjabi music and culture is in my blood alongside Sikhism….where does it say that i give up being Punjabi and just become Sikh? we have to preserve our culture and religion both are intertwined, please whoever makes comments about you can ONLY be Sikh keep your hardline thoughts to yourself we can all be good Sikhs and still preserve our punjabi boli and sabyachar.
[quote comment="1202"]Caste mentaility and yes Jatt pride are a massive problem amongts Punjabi Sikhs. Even the ones abroad will leave SIkh but not leave their caste…
I think we need to just focus on the youth…there is nothing we can really do about the older generation as they are stuck in their ways.
The Deras are not a problem at all. They infact are the sole providers of spiritual fulfilment for the people as the SGPC is doing jack all. If the Deras weren’t there then there is a possibility that Christian missionaires would be all over Punjab..
Blesings
P[/quote]
it would have been great if people start following chritianity or any other religion in true spirits than going to deras which are pushing superstitions into the minds of people and similarly gurudwaras also failing to fulfill spiritual hunger of people as professional granthi’s,ragi’s,sevadars are killing true spirit of sikhi everyday what to say of casteism which has become part of sikh society although every sikh denouce it but still it persists bcoz we are sikhs by appearance not by heart.
JSD…the point about caste is that Sikhs in india are using it to discriminate against one another. You dont have to give up culture, music and all the cool things about what makes you and your community unique. Unity in Diversity is what Sikhi is about. You personally may not descriminate and as a Sikh you also have a duty to help members of your community put their head on the right way too…we all have a job to do to make our collective panth shine again.
It would be good if there were more Intercaste – Interracial marriages between sikhs of different backgrounds but obviously the families do need to get on to some degree.
All these points I think were covered in my earlier post anyway.
JSD punjabi is punjabi culture is an integral part of Sikhi
i think many brothers are raising questions like this just
becoz of ignorance
“NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA TERE BHANE SARBAT DA BHALA”
guru fateh!!
With all these discussions and sharing of ideas, we all seem to be quite knowledgable. But we do not do anything in action. All these blogs, websites and news articles are just another type of entertainment to the mind. As mentioned in gurbani by mere reading spiritual texts one does not become spiritual. If gurbani’s wisdom and Gurus lives cannot inspire us nor would these kind of discussions. Instead of wasting time on blogs, websites etc, why do not we open non-for-profit organisations to combat female foeticide, farmers suicide, drug addicition and so on and forth.
Most of these kind of discussions are not cleaning our minds but making them more filthy. Here again we entered the religion for the wrong reasons into discussion, why did not we (journalist to begin with) discuss the issue between landlord versus landless people of punjab?
And I am also just discussing and part of entertainment group only.
As a Jatt I take it as my duty to uphold the punjabi culture in the best way possible…but with my culture there and my background there nothing is more important to me than being a Sikh…without Sikhi I wouldn’t be dancing to these songs about my pagh and so forth..Sikhi has shaped Punjabi culture and Punjabi culture has shaped Sikhi…i think a big problem is also all these false stereotypes of Punjabi not EVERYONE drinks, especially not ALL jatts. People in every background may drink and what not but Punjab is on DRUGS. Sardar or not, they are on drugs. I also beleive as a “jatt” I should adress the community because its true..jatts have abandoned the pagh and kes far more than any other group of Sikhs, there is nothing wrong with being proud of being whatever you are but I will agree its getting to Jatt’s heads. I’d also like to add one more thing, people are sitting here complaining about how jatts vs. dalits and what not, my grandfather is in Punjab right now and he said the reason jatts are also mad at dalits is because many who may not even have the proper grades or scores for higher education are getting their seats reserved in large institutions…in a sense they have gained a huge amout of power in Punjab, to Jatts it seems unfair as they are aiming to get into school solely on credentials it seems like affirmative action to me…dalits being minorities, jatts being the white american. the word chummar or choora is banned in Punjab, it can even equate in jail time, i think the beleif of a Sikh caste system is blown up beyond proportion and we should focus on Turban tying schools, as NRP (non resident Punjabis) we should help in creating infrastructure in Punjab rather than making big kothis and gurudwaras with our names on them. We should help in stopping drug addiction, preaching sikhi, and making every so liberal sikh population back into somewhat a moderate Sikh population. Honestly in my opinion with 1984 and the following years…Punjab was wiped of one…a huge sikh population, and 2 it was wiped of its amrithdari sikhs leaving a very liberal and moderate sikh population- though not all that bad, it leaves a stereotype that being amritdhari is being a fanatic, and that is just wrong.
Je Sikhan wich raj di gall na hundi ta
Sri harmandir sahib di khubsoorti duniyaa de samne naa aaundi
je sikhan wich Raaj di gall naa Hundi ta Maharaja Ranjit singh nu raaj karan de ki lorh see
Je Sikhan de wich Raaj di gall na hundi taan SRI AKAAL TAKHT DE
SIRJANA NAHI SE HOO SAKDE
As stated, points can be made without CAPS. It adds nothing to your point, except getting it deleted. Thanks….Admin
that has nothing to do with the topic, and can we all stop typing in caps it actually makes it harder to read.
i know this has nothing to do with this topic…….
If you know it, then don’t post it. Thanks Admin Singh
Deg O Teg O Fateh o nusrat bedirang
Yaft Az Nanak Guru Gobind Singh
The kettle and the sword (Symbols of charity and power), victory and blessing have been obtained from Guru Nanak-Gobind Singh. God is one! Victory to the Presence!! This is the order of Sri Sachcha Sahib (The great master) to the entire Khalsa. The Guru will protect you. Call upon the Guru’s name. Your lives will be fruitful!. You are the Khalsa of the great immortal God. On seeing this letter, repair to the presence, wearing five arms. Observe the rules of conduct laid down for the Khalsa. Do not use Bhang, tobocco, Poppy, wine, or any other intoxicant…Commit no theft or adultery. We have brought Satyug (the golden age) Love one another. This is my wish. He who lives according to the rules of Khalsa shall be saved by the Guru.
sir with all due respect
Please accept my apology and i request you to remove all of my
comments.
[Apology accepted, just please try to remain on focus in the future. Regards! -Admin]
It is unfortunate that the level of discussion amongst Sikhs still remains so low.
We cannot have a discussion of caste and its ramifications on the destruction of Punjab because people’s personal egoes far exceeds the needs of the Qaum.
To those that rant against Jatts – take a look at your own caste prejudices and see how deep they run. Instead of pointing the fingers at others, maybe it is time to look in the mirror. How do personal attacks raise the level of conversation?
To those that rant about how Jatts are a race — scholarship since the 19th century has far moved beyond such asinine colonial anthropology. Scholars question the existence of anything even called ’scythian.’ It is a shame that you look to your former masters (British) to understand yourself, when they were interested in CONSTRUCTING an identity for you that suited their imperial fodder needs.
In short, I asked earlier can we raise the level of conversation. I appreciate those such as ProjectNaad and others that did so. Unfortunately many did not.
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