Kaptaan,

With regards to your first question, I think my previous post made my opinion on dual-identities fairly clear. To reiterate, I do not think the Sikh part of us, and the Punjabi/Chinese/etc. side of us can be so easily separated whenever convenience or rationalization or justification calls for it. When a Punjabi Sikh slaps his wife, it is a Sikh slapping his wife as much as it is a Punjabi slapping his wife, irrespective of the original source of such negative values.

I do not think we have any argument on the purity of Sikhi followed in ideal fashion, but sadly, that ideal form has always been rare. Even Guru Gobind Singh ji’s hand picked Singhs revealed less than ideal behavior. For example, Guru ji selected 5 trusted men (Panj-Piare) to accompany Banda Singh Bahadur, and some accounts indicate at least two of them revealed themselves to be casteist (Binod Singh and Kahan Singh) when they took control of Amritsar. Regardless of the source of their casteism, they were Sikhs espousing casteist beliefs and we cannot brush aside that Sikhs continue to espouse this and other negative beliefs, by throwing the strawman of Punjabi culture into the mix.

When a Christian priest sexually assaults a young altar boy, we do not justify/rationalize such depravity by labeling it inconsistent with ideal Christian thought, and saying it was the English/Spanish/German side of that priest that committed the crime. The perpetrator was a Christian and the problem needs to be addressed by Christians and Christian institutions. The problem is a Christian problem.

Accepting first that I disagree with this concept of duality that you have mentioned – and I do (there is no air-tight, compartmentalized Sikh self and Punjabi self), consider the following: If negative values from whatever source (Afghan culture, Punjabi culture, European culture) exist amongst Sikhs, do they not become a part of Sikh culture? What if such negative values exist amongst Sikhs for 100 years, 1000 years, 10,000 years? How long do Sikhs continue rationalizing such problems as being rooted in XYZ culture, and not taking responsibility for such flaws as Sikhs?

To clarify again, ideal Sikh culture would be a community of saints – we’d all be perfect, and there would be heaven on earth. Real Sikh culture, as it exists today, is far from ideal. I simply do not think we can disavow the negatives in our community as separate from Sikh culture. Separate from ideal Sikh culture perhaps – but not separate from Sikh culture as we find it today.

I have little contention with the rest of what you have written. The Sikh community, Sikh institutions, and yes, even Sikh culture today, is a fragmented, out-of-focus, and in many ways, corrupt image of what it should be, of what it could be if the ideals of Sikhi were followed intact. As you have mentioned, and I agree, we need to turn to these ideals to solve the problems in our midst.

To avoid any misunderstanding, is there anything in my previous post which you disagree with? If so, please point it out.

Thank you Mewa Singh and Phulkari – I was pretty sure I wasn’t the only one who thought in this fashion – good to have the confirmation though!

Ps. On a slight tangent – if we agree that there is no such thing as Sikh culture, the picture becomes uncluttered…hmmmm . For some Sikhs, those with non-Punjabi ethnicity, perhaps the picture is uncluttered. For Punjabi Sikhs, I think the culture and religious beliefs have been intertwined over the centuries – putting them in a slightly different position than Sikhs of other ethnicities? A random thought/question, but there it is…

so we agree that when someone who has a dual identity is confronted with an issue it should be Sikh culture, principle and gurmat that he/ she should turn to to resolve the issue in the most moral ethical manner?

Secondly, you and I may agree that Punjabi/ non-Sikh culture and values which aren’t in consonance with Sikh culture and values influence the negativity in our lives, whereas Sikhi doesn’t promote negative or bad values and behaviour.

Thirdly, Reema wanted to know why negatives should only be attributed to Punjabi culture and only good values to Sikh culture. Well, building on your point, Sikh culture and religious values and principles only inculcate positive life affirming behaviours. Whether it is Punjabi, Eastern, or Western culture which is the font for casteism, sexism, racism, bigotry, hate, inequality, inhumanity, or any other negative behaviour doesn’t matter because my point is that it is not Sikh culture or values that do this.

The way I see it, this is a forum where we can only communicate with words and so Reema’s words matter on this point. I would like to know if she agrees with this point.

I’d like to see Reema propose a stronger identification of Sikhs with the Sikh identity to mitigate ‘bad’ behaviour that some people pursue. If she wants people to live truer to Sikh values which are against the practice of sexism, racism, casteism, etc… then make that point in posts.

We can all let people know we don’t agree with them when they engage in anti-Sikh practices around us and are looking for our acceptance of that behaviour or want us to go along with it. IF someone makes racist statements or casteist statements you should let them know its not part of what you believe.

I don’t deny having been influenced by non-Sikh culture, however, I believe in choosing the Sikh identity to guide me when Sikh values and non-Sikhs values conflict. I believe that’s the point when I or others say that we identify more as Sikhs and not as Punjabis or Chinese or Namibian or whatever ethnicity someone might be. That doesn’t mean I deny that I’m a Punjabi, but it doesn mean that I don’t accept Punjabiness or any other identity lock, stock and barrel.

regards,
Kaptaan

Sikhi has no bad qualities or bad values – if I believed otherwise, I would not be a Sikh. Many Sikhs have plenty of bad qualities and bad values – to believe otherwise would be ridiculous.

Like you kaptaan, I attribute these bad qualities and/or values to the Punjabi in me, not to the Sikh in me; however, if I understand Reema correctly, how the heck does one separate the Sikh from the Punjabi (re Punjabi Sikhs) – as if an individual’s identity can be separated like two pieces of lego when necessary? Perhaps this is exactly the case, but it all appears a little too convenient and disingenous.

Sikhi, when adhered to completely, when a Sikh bows his/her head to the Guru and accepts the Guru’s thinking entirely in lieu of his/her own (gurmat vs manmat), is the ideal. In my opinion, it would be impossible to find any flaw in such a Sikh. But how many such flawless Sikhs have you encountered? 1? 2?

For example, if a Punjabi Sikh exhibits sexist/casteist behaviour – we can readily acknowledge that such values stem from Punjabi culture and NOT from Sikh principles; however, why is the Sikh in that person not held accountable? Should not the Sikh values held by that Sikh provide a more than sufficient counterbalance to any of the idiocy found in Punjabi culture? Ideally, yes. Realistically, it is hit or miss. Sikhi may wholly denounce sexism/casteism but there are many Sikhs who harbour sexist/casteist values. This is as much a problem arising from that Punabi’s Punjabiyat, as it is a weakness in that Sikh’s Sikhi.

If we are to have a bright-line test on the matter, then we can do so easily – anyone who adheres 100% to the Guru’s teachings is a Sikh and anyone who deviates even slightly is not a Sikh. If we go that route, the Sikh community dwindles to a handful of individuals, if that.

While we can certainly attribute the root of many evils in our community to culture, such attribution alone does little to counter the evil, and often comes across as weak justification and rationalization. If these problems are going to be addressed properly, then we need to acknowledge these problems exist amongst Punjabi Sikhs and step up to counter them as Punjabi Sikhs.

Perhaps, if all the principals of this tragedy followed Sikh culture instead of Punjabi culture things might have had a happier ending? How about blogging about the virtue of a Sikh cultural solution to these types of tragedies???

Also, what bad values do you attribute to Sikh culture because you wrote, “Why can only our problems come from our Punjabi-ness and only our good values be attributed to our Sikh identity?” This may precisely be the case.

Oh, Kaptaan. I feel like a broken record, having to say the same thing over and over again. There is a disparity between Sikh doctrine and what is practiced.

If you think that anyone who doesn’t perfectly follow Sikh doctrine is not a Sikh, then there are too few Sikhs to make a Sikh community.

Your response that many “Sikhs have some connection to Punjab” doesn’t address the issue. What does anyone’s past affliation with Punjab have to do with anything? There are many ethnic Irish in Canada and the USA, yet no one starts questioning how their Catholicism has anything to do with what may be purely Irish ethnic issues?

Also, what bad values do you attribute to Sikh culture because you wrote, “Why can only our problems come from our Punjabi-ness and only our good values be attributed to our Sikh identity?” This may precisely be the case.

You said it, now defend it, what are these “bad” values??

I don’t mind discussing the issue of this person being murdered allegedly by his girlfriend’s father, but don’t link it in any way with Sikh religion or Sikhs.

regards,
Kaptaan.