Mediation services needed in gurdwaras

Many of you may have already heard about the shooting that occurred on Sunday afternoon at the Sacramento Sikh Society Sports Complex, next to the gurdwara. A cricket match, part of a sports festival, was being held when an ongoing argument took a fatal turn. So far, I’ve seen no news of the substance of the dispute. But the result left Paramjit Pamma Singh (name misreported?) dead, and an unnamed 38 year old man with a leg wound. [link]

Gurpreet Singh Gosal, 24, of Indianapolis, was arrested and booked into Sacramento Main Jail Monday morning for the murder of Parmjit Pamma Singh, said sheriff spokesman Sgt. Tim Curran… The shooting followed an ongoing argument between the victims, Singh Gosal and a second man, according to investigators. The suspect and the second man opened fire on Pamma Singh and a 38-year-old man as they watched a tournament at the Sacramento Sikh Society Sports Complex in the 7600 block of Bradshaw Road about 1:30 p.m. Sunday, Curran said. Pamma Singh died at the scene. [link]

We must find better ways to resolve our disputes. sacramento_sheriffs_interview_spectators_after_shooting.JPG

Often, I’m proud of how our community quickly takes action when action is necessary, though this weekend’s events illustrate a darker side of this willingness to take initiative. If anyone has more information about the substance of the dispute between the shooters and the victim, please share.

Gurpreet Singh was apprehended by other spectators and athletes who beat him into submission with cricket bats and hockey sticks until the police arrive.

Witnesses said spectators and athletes near the shooting were able to rush and grab one of the gunmen, and beat him into submission before deputies arrived…”The crowd was armed with cricket bats and field hockey sticks,” Curran said. “(The crowd) didn’t hold back the fact that they hit him.” [link]

This incident saddens me deeply. Not only is Paramjit Singh lost to his family and friends, but both shooters were 24 years old. It takes an entire community to raise an individual, and though the shooters are ultimately responsible for their own individual actions, I can’t help but think that somewhere along the line, someone should have been able to teach these young men to exercise self-restraint and how to resolve a dispute without resorting to violence.

There are far too many unnecessary disputes in gurdwaras that get out of hand. I’ve often thought that gurdwaras should really have mediation services. If anyone is aware of gurdwaras that already do, please let us know what procedures they use and how the program has been received by the community.

Creating mediation services would not be difficult. Anyone can be trained as a mediator in a matter of weeks. The beauty of mediation is that the content and result of the session(s) is determined by the parties themselves, and not the mediator. The mediator is simply there to help the parties communicate, understand each other, and guide them in crafting their solution. The mediator must be impartial and keep the entire session absolutely confidential, including shredding/burning any notes that are taken during the session(s). So if the mediator is trustworthy, the dispute and any information shared in relation to it could really be resolved without anyone knowing about it, which I think would appeal to many who fear talking about problems because they don’t want everyone to know about them.


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44 Responses to “Mediation services needed in gurdwaras”

  1. At first I thought it said "meditation" services. I thought 'alright! such a great suggestion!'

    I can't relate to the need for mediation at the Gurdwara but the places where it is needed, I'm sure it would be a great idea. In the mean time, it would also be cool to have "meditation" services where people are taught various forms of meditation, rather than just teaching the repetition of "WaheGuru" and in some cases made-up pranayams. I agree with the repetition of "WaheGuru" as a meditation technique, but it's hard for kids and many other people to immediately be affected by that technique. If you've never practiced meditation, how can you be expected to sit for long periods of time and repeat the same thing over and over again?

    This may be part of the problem mentioned in this post: that Sikh youth cannot control their minds (act out of anger). Guru Nanak said "pavan Guru" that air is the Guru, and any yogi knows that the mind follows the breath. Various forms of simple pranayams can be taught to kids and youth as well as other yoga (if people are open to it) to help people cool off.

    This above situation is pretty tragic. I hope that Sikh youth will learn from it.

  2. mike jones says:

    those guys that got shot were not that innocent either. im not saying wut the two shooters did was right but those two guys who got shot came to get these guys also i mean you cant clap with one hand you think those guys buddies are not tryin to get revenge and do the same thing

  3. Reema says:

    Mike,

    If you know more about what the dispute was, do share. I'm sure whatever it was, it didn't warrant what happened.

    The point of this post is to try to figure out ways to resolve disputes without resorting to revenge and guns.

    Prabhu,

    Do you even know what mediation is? Any youth that are willing to try mediTation, don't need mediation; they probably already have the inclination to resolve problems peacefully.

  4. Singh says:

    I feel this is an unfair link. The park in the story is across the street from the Gurdwara. Yes, all of this happened in the vicinity of the Gurdwara but to be completely frank and honest – how many crimes have happened around the world in the vicinity of places of worship? Probably thousands every day. People tend to gather near places of worship, and criminals tend to find their enemies in gatherings at various places including flea markets, malls, public parks, and places of worship.

  5. mike jones says:

    those guys that got shot were not that innocent either. im not saying wut the two shooters did was right but those two guys who got shot came to get these guys also i mean you cant clap with one hand you think those guys buddies are not tryin to get revenge and do the same thing

  6. At first I thought it said “meditation” services. I thought ‘alright! such a great suggestion!’
    I can’t relate to the need for mediation at the Gurdwara but the places where it is needed, I’m sure it would be a great idea. In the mean time, it would also be cool to have “meditation” services where people are taught various forms of meditation, rather than just teaching the repetition of “WaheGuru” and in some cases made-up pranayams. I agree with the repetition of “WaheGuru” as a meditation technique, but it’s hard for kids and many other people to immediately be affected by that technique. If you’ve never practiced meditation, how can you be expected to sit for long periods of time and repeat the same thing over and over again?
    This may be part of the problem mentioned in this post: that Sikh youth cannot control their minds (act out of anger). Guru Nanak said “pavan Guru” that air is the Guru, and any yogi knows that the mind follows the breath. Various forms of simple pranayams can be taught to kids and youth as well as other yoga (if people are open to it) to help people cool off.
    This above situation is pretty tragic. I hope that Sikh youth will learn from it.

  7. Reema says:

    Mike,

    If you know more about what the dispute was, do share. I’m sure whatever it was, it didn’t warrant what happened.

    The point of this post is to try to figure out ways to resolve disputes without resorting to revenge and guns.

    Prabhu,

    Do you even know what mediation is? Any youth that are willing to try mediTation, don’t need mediation; they probably already have the inclination to resolve problems peacefully.

  8. Singh says:

    I feel this is an unfair link. The park in the story is across the street from the Gurdwara. Yes, all of this happened in the vicinity of the Gurdwara but to be completely frank and honest – how many crimes have happened around the world in the vicinity of places of worship? Probably thousands every day. People tend to gather near places of worship, and criminals tend to find their enemies in gatherings at various places including flea markets, malls, public parks, and places of worship.

  9. P.Singh says:

    [quote comment="4911"]I feel this is an unfair link. The park in the story is across the street from the Gurdwara. Yes, all of this happened in the vicinity of the Gurdwara but to be completely frank and honest – how many crimes have happened around the world in the vicinity of places of worship? Probably thousands every day. People tend to gather near places of worship, and criminals tend to find their enemies in gatherings at various places including flea markets, malls, public parks, and places of worship.[/quote]

    Indeed, crimes happen in the vicinity of many places of worship. Many of these places of worship have youth programs, camps for troubled kids, general counselling services, matrimonial counselling services, drug rehabilitation services and various other programs.

    The thrust of the post is quite clear: mediation services would be an excellent addition to the other services provided by the gurdwara. I hardly see it as unfairly linking violence to gurdwaras – though many gurdwaras have seen their fair share of ugly disputes.

  10. P.Singh says:

    [quote comment=”4911″]I feel this is an unfair link. The park in the story is across the street from the Gurdwara. Yes, all of this happened in the vicinity of the Gurdwara but to be completely frank and honest – how many crimes have happened around the world in the vicinity of places of worship? Probably thousands every day. People tend to gather near places of worship, and criminals tend to find their enemies in gatherings at various places including flea markets, malls, public parks, and places of worship.[/quote]

    Indeed, crimes happen in the vicinity of many places of worship. Many of these places of worship have youth programs, camps for troubled kids, general counselling services, matrimonial counselling services, drug rehabilitation services and various other programs.

    The thrust of the post is quite clear: mediation services would be an excellent addition to the other services provided by the gurdwara. I hardly see it as unfairly linking violence to gurdwaras – though many gurdwaras have seen their fair share of ugly disputes.

  11. Camille says:

    Do you even know what mediation is? Any youth that are willing to try mediTation, don’t need mediation; they probably already have the inclination to resolve problems peacefully.

    Reema, I think Prabhu Singh was clear that he misread the recommendation at first, but that there is perhaps another dimension (in addition to mediation) based in "disciplining" (for lack of a better phrase) one's mind. From my reading, you both agree on the last point (that youth who practice meditation are more likely to resolve problems peacefully).

  12. Kaptaan says:

    I find this post kind of exploitive of the situation and unnecessarily links Sikhs and the Gurdwara with this crime. I was at the Gurdwara on that day and was there when it happened. If you want to read more about what happened that day and see the pictures I took you can go here.

    Having said that, what I would like to address here is that people who commit crimes like this or other violence at the Gurdwara should be condemned. I believe these people's families should apologize to the Sangat for unfairly bringing all Sikhs into this ongoing personal non-Sikhi related dispute.

    I believe their parents' and grandparents' names along with their ancestral village publicized so everyone who knows them or anyone from that village can let them know how much embarrassment and aggravation these criminals actions have caused.

    BTW, I agree with Prabhu Singh's idea of introducing meditation classes/ lessons at the Gurdwara for young people. As for the Singh who thinks that those who need it won't attend, I say you have to take one step at a time on the road to building a better society. This would be a first step.

    Funny how Reema and the other contributors on this site never propose Sikhi based solutions to issues that they rake up and sensationalize…

  13. Camille says:

    Do you even know what mediation is? Any youth that are willing to try mediTation, dont need mediation; they probably already have the inclination to resolve problems peacefully.

    Reema, I think Prabhu Singh was clear that he misread the recommendation at first, but that there is perhaps another dimension (in addition to mediation) based in “disciplining” (for lack of a better phrase) one’s mind. From my reading, you both agree on the last point (that youth who practice meditation are more likely to resolve problems peacefully).

  14. Kaptaan says:

    I find this post kind of exploitive of the situation and unnecessarily links Sikhs and the Gurdwara with this crime. I was at the Gurdwara on that day and was there when it happened. If you want to read more about what happened that day and see the pictures I took you can go here.

    Having said that, what I would like to address here is that people who commit crimes like this or other violence at the Gurdwara should be condemned. I believe these people’s families should apologize to the Sangat for unfairly bringing all Sikhs into this ongoing personal non-Sikhi related dispute.

    I believe their parents’ and grandparents’ names along with their ancestral village publicized so everyone who knows them or anyone from that village can let them know how much embarrassment and aggravation these criminals actions have caused.

    BTW, I agree with Prabhu Singh’s idea of introducing meditation classes/ lessons at the Gurdwara for young people. As for the Singh who thinks that those who need it won’t attend, I say you have to take one step at a time on the road to building a better society. This would be a first step.

    Funny how Reema and the other contributors on this site never propose Sikhi based solutions to issues that they rake up and sensationalize…

  15. Soniya says:

    Both the shooters and the victims were gang members.

  16. Soniya says:

    THe suspects and the victims were all gang members.

  17. Soniya says:

    Both the shooters and the victims were gang members.

  18. Soniya says:

    THe suspects and the victims were all gang members.

  19. Reema says:

    Prabhu Singh- I apologize for not reading your comment carefully enough earlier.

    Kaptaan,

    The strikethrough was originally used as a way of editing to let the record stand, which is how I intended to use it, so readers could see what the comments are about:

    Most everyone knows how to use the strikethrough, but I wonder if everyone knows why it exists so far as blogging is concerned. If not, perhaps a little blog history lesson is in order.

    Since their inception, one signal characteristic of blogs has always been their immediacy. Blogs were (are) very extemporaneous in nature with commentary that often went unedited. There was a strong sense of letting the record stand and "keeping it real."

    However, now, the strikethrough is more often used creatively:

    About a year ago, NY Times commentator Noam Cohen suggested that bloggers were using the strikethrough in ironic fashion, as a clever way of "simultaneously commenting on your prose as you create it." In other words, rather than using the HTML tag as a correction, it's used to emphasize commentary that the poster wants read.

    I intended to use it simply to let the record stand- it was my error in quick writing, in inserting the words "in gurdwaras"- which led to misconceptions of what I was trying to say. There is no hint of irony in those words. I wrote this in haste, and didn't differentiate between 70 yards outside the gurdwara, vs. inside the gurdwara. The fact that it occurred anywhere near the gurdwara is so far from the point of the post though, it frustrates me that that's the only point you're interested in.

    Kaptaan, the reason I often don't respond to your comments is because you often just criticize the blogger and bring up the same arguments, that I see no point of rehashing i.e. that all of our community's problems can be dismissed as Punjabi cultural influence. I'm tired of this dismissal. P. Singh responded to this argument of yours well last time we went through this- feel free to reread:

    While we can certainly attribute the root of many evils in our community to culture, such attribution alone does little to counter the evil, and often comes across as weak justification and rationalization. If these problems are going to be addressed properly, then we need to acknowledge these problems exist amongst Punjabi Sikhs and step up to counter them as Punjabi Sikhs.

    Your accusation of our dark incentives is laughable. Our intent is not to mar- it's to address issues head on- the problems don't go away if we just ignore them, they just fester.

    This may not have been the best dispute to propose mediation for, but I do still think that mediation would a helpful service – it could happen in a building outside the gurdwara, if you don't think it belongs within the gurdwara itself.

    Kaptaan, I mean no personal offense in any way, and hope that none has been taken.

    Rab rakha.

  20. P.Singh says:

    Funny how Reema and the other contributors on this site never propose Sikhi based solutions to issues that they rake up and sensationalize…

    That is an ass comment kaptaan. I have enjoyed reading your perspective on a number of issues, but that particular statement is beneath you – completely uncalled for.

    Opining on issues that are in the current news, is not "raking up" issues. Similarly, discussing solutions to problems – be it mediation or meditation – is not sensationalizing anything either.

    I am the first to admit, I don't like seeing a continuing string of negative comment after negative comment about Sikhs – I have Kim Bolan for that. However, outside of one or two individuals who post to this site, I have never got the feeling TLH bloggers harbour dark or sinister motives when posting on issues. In contrast, their blogging often reflects they genuinely care about the issues being presented and want to see their community better itself on any number of fronts.

  21. kaptaan says:

    P. Singh,

    I think if you really wanted to make a point you could do it without the name calling. In any case, my point is that taking a current event and discussing it is one thing. However, time after time on this site I have noticed how Sikhs or Gurdwaras or Sikh related institutions have been marred in the eyes of the contributor with the same brush, in this case, as the criminal who committed the crime.

    Why is that the author uses strike through instead of fully editing the sentence about disputes getting out of hand? I think its foolish to not acknowledge that the contributors here do in fact make provocative statements to get attention, another example is the whole post about Sikhs learning from Icelandic behaviours and mores.

    I stand by my earlier comment. You may disagree, but I believe you are being foolish if you don't acknowledge the systematic hyperbole whether it is co-ordinated or not isn't the issue, its that it occurs here.

  22. P.Singh says:

    Funny how Reema and the other contributors on this site never propose Sikhi based solutions to issues that they rake up and sensationalize

    That is an ass comment kaptaan. I have enjoyed reading your perspective on a number of issues, but that particular statement is beneath you – completely uncalled for.

    Opining on issues that are in the current news, is not “raking up” issues. Similarly, discussing solutions to problems – be it mediation or meditation – is not sensationalizing anything either.

    I am the first to admit, I don’t like seeing a continuing string of negative comment after negative comment about Sikhs – I have Kim Bolan for that. However, outside of one or two individuals who post to this site, I have never got the feeling TLH bloggers harbour dark or sinister motives when posting on issues. In contrast, their blogging often reflects they genuinely care about the issues being presented and want to see their community better itself on any number of fronts.

  23. kaptaan says:

    P. Singh,

    I think if you really wanted to make a point you could do it without the name calling. In any case, my point is that taking a current event and discussing it is one thing. However, time after time on this site I have noticed how Sikhs or Gurdwaras or Sikh related institutions have been marred in the eyes of the contributor with the same brush, in this case, as the criminal who committed the crime.

    Why is that the author uses strike through instead of fully editing the sentence about disputes getting out of hand? I think its foolish to not acknowledge that the contributors here do in fact make provocative statements to get attention, another example is the whole post about Sikhs learning from Icelandic behaviours and mores.

    I stand by my earlier comment. You may disagree, but I believe you are being foolish if you don’t acknowledge the systematic hyperbole whether it is co-ordinated or not isn’t the issue, its that it occurs here.

  24. P.Singh says:

    Kaptaan,

    I wasn't calling you names – only describing the comment you made.

    I stand by my earlier comment. You may disagree, but I believe you are being foolish if you don’t acknowledge the systematic hyperbole whether it is co-ordinated or not isn’t the issue, its that it occurs here.

    I do disagree. I do not see any sinister methodology (co-ordinated or not) in the articles/posts being put forward by bloggers. I guess that makes me foolish for disagreeing with your opinion (hmm…"I think if you really wanted to make a point you could do it without the name calling").

  25. kaptaan says:

    P. Singh,

    I'm not calling you names. I didn't call you a 'fool'.

    On re-reading my comment, I'll rephrase it to the following: "I believe it is foolish to not acknowledge a level of hyperbole and exaggeration in the way issues are presented on this site".

    In responding, I may have used a turn of phrase that impinged on your sensibilities, hence the re-phrasing.

    Regards.

  26. P.Singh says:

    Kaptaan,

    I wasn’t calling you names – only describing the comment you made.

    I stand by my earlier comment. You may disagree, but I believe you are being foolish if you dont acknowledge the systematic hyperbole whether it is co-ordinated or not isnt the issue, its that it occurs here.

    I do disagree. I do not see any sinister methodology (co-ordinated or not) in the articles/posts being put forward by bloggers. I guess that makes me foolish for disagreeing with your opinion (hmm…”I think if you really wanted to make a point you could do it without the name calling”).

  27. kaptaan says:

    P. Singh,

    I’m not calling you names. I didn’t call you a ‘fool’.

    On re-reading my comment, I’ll rephrase it to the following: “I believe it is foolish to not acknowledge a level of hyperbole and exaggeration in the way issues are presented on this site”.

    In responding, I may have used a turn of phrase that impinged on your sensibilities, hence the re-phrasing.

    Regards.

  28. Reema says:

    Prabhu Singh- I apologize for not reading your comment carefully enough earlier.

    Kaptaan,

    The strikethrough was originally used as a way of editing to let the record stand, which is how I intended to use it, so readers could see what the comments are about:

    Most everyone knows how to use the strikethrough, but I wonder if everyone knows why it exists so far as blogging is concerned. If not, perhaps a little blog history lesson is in order.

    Since their inception, one signal characteristic of blogs has always been their immediacy. Blogs were (are) very extemporaneous in nature with commentary that often went unedited. There was a strong sense of letting the record stand and "keeping it real."

    However, now, the strikethrough is more often used creatively:

    About a year ago, NY Times commentator Noam Cohen suggested that bloggers were using the strikethrough in ironic fashion, as a clever way of "simultaneously commenting on your prose as you create it." In other words, rather than using the HTML tag as a correction, it's used to emphasize commentary that the poster wants read.

    I intended to use it simply to let the record stand- it was my error in quick writing, in inserting the words "in gurdwaras"- which led to misconceptions of what I was trying to say. There is no hint of irony in those words. I wrote this in haste, and didn't differentiate between 70 yards outside the gurdwara, vs. inside the gurdwara. The fact that it occurred anywhere near the gurdwara is so far from the point of the post though, it frustrates me that that's the only point you're interested in.

    Kaptaan, the reason I often don't respond to your comments is because you often just criticize the blogger and bring up the same arguments, that I see no point of rehashing i.e. that all of our community's problems can be dismissed as Punjabi cultural influence. I'm tired of this dismissal. P. Singh responded to this argument of yours well last time we went through this- feel free to reread:

    While we can certainly attribute the root of many evils in our community to culture, such attribution alone does little to counter the evil, and often comes across as weak justification and rationalization. If these problems are going to be addressed properly, then we need to acknowledge these problems exist amongst Punjabi Sikhs and step up to counter them as Punjabi Sikhs.

    Your accusation of our dark incentives is laughable. Our intent is not to mar- it's to address issues head on- the problems don't go away if we just ignore them, they just fester.

    This may not have been the best dispute to propose mediation for, but I do still think that mediation would a helpful service – it could happen in a building outside the gurdwara, if you don't think it belongs within the gurdwara itself.

    Kaptaan, I mean no personal offense in any way, and hope that none has been taken.

    Rab rakha.

  29. mike jones says:

    u know wut it is bs that everyone thinks the crows is a hero cuz quite frankly they took the law in their own hands. thats like u saying it is ok for me to shoot someone who shot someone else

  30. mike jones says:

    u know wut it is bs that everyone thinks the crows is a hero cuz quite frankly they took the law in their own hands. thats like u saying it is ok for me to shoot someone who shot someone else

  31. Kaptaan says:

    Mike,

    it is 100% okay for you to shoot someone who just shot someone else if that person is still a danger to other people. You are fully justified, and I would say obligated as a Sikh, to put that person out of commission if necessary to prevent any further harm coming about. Sikhs should know how to defend themselves and others and if necessary should be able to use lethal force in doing so without hesitation.

    Reema,

    I am not implying anything sinister on your or other contributors part. I am saying that you should examine your posts and ask yourself how many times you've brought up an issue and proposed a Sikhi or Gurmat based solution or method of addressing the issue. I would venture pretty much never. If I am wrong then set the record straight.

    I would also ask how many times a 'current event' has been brought up in a provocative and/ or hyperbolic way. I continue to make criticisms because the posts that are made on this site continue to lend themselves to the same criticism.

    When I see a comment or post I agree with and find merit in, I acknowledge that as well. For example, many of the comments made by one Prabhu Singh Khalsa. Also, I don't recall the Singh, but I asked in one of my comments that this site bring that person on as a contributor as the Singh demonstrated a strong knowledge of Gurmat. I have made such suggestions on this site several times in an effort to make the site more accessible to all Sikhs and provide a better end-user experience.

    regards,

    Kaptaan

  32. Kaptaan says:

    Mike,

    it is 100% okay for you to shoot someone who just shot someone else if that person is still a danger to other people. You are fully justified, and I would say obligated as a Sikh, to put that person out of commission if necessary to prevent any further harm coming about. Sikhs should know how to defend themselves and others and if necessary should be able to use lethal force in doing so without hesitation.

    Reema,

    I am not implying anything sinister on your or other contributors part. I am saying that you should examine your posts and ask yourself how many times you’ve brought up an issue and proposed a Sikhi or Gurmat based solution or method of addressing the issue. I would venture pretty much never. If I am wrong then set the record straight.

    I would also ask how many times a ‘current event’ has been brought up in a provocative and/ or hyperbolic way. I continue to make criticisms because the posts that are made on this site continue to lend themselves to the same criticism.

    When I see a comment or post I agree with and find merit in, I acknowledge that as well. For example, many of the comments made by one Prabhu Singh Khalsa. Also, I don’t recall the Singh, but I asked in one of my comments that this site bring that person on as a contributor as the Singh demonstrated a strong knowledge of Gurmat. I have made such suggestions on this site several times in an effort to make the site more accessible to all Sikhs and provide a better end-user experience.

    regards,
    Kaptaan

  33. mike jones says:

    ur obligation as an american is to follow the law and not break it wut makes sikhs so special that they can break the law that was not gonna shoot neone else he shot who he wanted and if the second guy who got shot had not trying to be the hero he would not have been shot either so dont give me the bs bout sikhs obligations if people like u dont put the thought of being heros there would only be one victim who was not that innocent either he came to mess up dhami and gosal himslef not to watch cricket

  34. mike jones says:

    look like i said b4 it was not right for dhami to shoot neone but the crowd was wrong and if u feel they were right u should go back to the 3rd world country u came from wut makes america great is the fact that everyone has a right to be tried by a jury not an angry mob that is some communist crap. like i said b4 the hero that got shot was not very smart. there would only one person shot rather than 2 if he just stayed back and let the police do their job. You a sikh and u should know that god punishes every1 that does bad. the people that do bad will get theirs and god will teach him a lesson. dhami will get caught but we dont need people like kaptaan to help people to think that it is ok to take the law in their own hands and get shot when they should leave that to the police

  35. mike jones says:

    ur obligation as an american is to follow the law and not break it wut makes sikhs so special that they can break the law that was not gonna shoot neone else he shot who he wanted and if the second guy who got shot had not trying to be the hero he would not have been shot either so dont give me the bs bout sikhs obligations if people like u dont put the thought of being heros there would only be one victim who was not that innocent either he came to mess up dhami and gosal himslef not to watch cricket

  36. mike jones says:

    look like i said b4 it was not right for dhami to shoot neone but the crowd was wrong and if u feel they were right u should go back to the 3rd world country u came from wut makes america great is the fact that everyone has a right to be tried by a jury not an angry mob that is some communist crap. like i said b4 the hero that got shot was not very smart. there would only one person shot rather than 2 if he just stayed back and let the police do their job. You a sikh and u should know that god punishes every1 that does bad. the people that do bad will get theirs and god will teach him a lesson. dhami will get caught but we dont need people like kaptaan to help people to think that it is ok to take the law in their own hands and get shot when they should leave that to the police

  37. KK says:

    Pamma is not the most innocent. I guess what goes around comes around.

  38. KK says:

    Pamma is not the most innocent. I guess what goes around comes around.

  39. Camille says:

    Kaptaan, there are many posts where a "Sikhi"-based solution or recommendation is mentioned in our postings. I had a huge list of links, but my comment got wiped out :(

    That said, I'd like to hear more about what you mean by Sikhi- or Gurmat-derived solutions because it sounds interesting, and because you've brought this up several times. I think you may have a fair point, but I'd like to gain a better understanding because I think we may be talking at cross-purposes. (I apologize if I've missed a comment in which you've done just that; I'm not always able to keep up on all the comment threads).

    I can't speak for all the writers on TLH, but I do think that many of us try to create a dialogue, in the spirit of the sangat, around issues facing our community (in the narrow and broad senses of that term). I know I often don't identify a solution because I think it's meaningful to create one through a process of dialogue. In those cases, both identification of the issue and the desire to dialogue are implicitly rooted in Sikhi and Sikh teachings.

  40. Camille says:

    Kaptaan, there are many posts where a “Sikhi”-based solution or recommendation is mentioned in our postings. I had a huge list of links, but my comment got wiped out :(

    That said, I’d like to hear more about what you mean by Sikhi- or Gurmat-derived solutions because it sounds interesting, and because you’ve brought this up several times. I think you may have a fair point, but I’d like to gain a better understanding because I think we may be talking at cross-purposes. (I apologize if I’ve missed a comment in which you’ve done just that; I’m not always able to keep up on all the comment threads).

    I can’t speak for all the writers on TLH, but I do think that many of us try to create a dialogue, in the spirit of the sangat, around issues facing our community (in the narrow and broad senses of that term). I know I often don’t identify a solution because I think it’s meaningful to create one through a process of dialogue. In those cases, both identification of the issue and the desire to dialogue are implicitly rooted in Sikhi and Sikh teachings.

  41. baingandabhartha says:

    Whatever "mike jones".

  42. baingandabhartha says:

    Whatever “mike jones”.

  43. kaptaan says:

    Mike Jones,

    I don't know what 3rd world country you're referring to, I mean you can call Canada, where I'm from, all sorts of things but 3rd world it is not. As for people sitting back and waiting for the police, that is for other people. Sikhs are the kind to stand up and take action to protect others.

    These people may well have shot children or elderly or other people. The crowd acted according to the law. They subdued an attacker. It is legal to use lethal force if necessary in California to stop an attack against you or others if that's what a reasonable person would do. In this case it would no doubt be justified given that someone was killed by this guy.

    Whether the people shot were good or bad isn't the point. The point is this guy shot someone and needed to be stopped to prevent injury to others. Also, I would suggest anyone showing up to a Gurdwara or other Sikh religious place or function and starting violence deserves to be taken care of in the most fitting and efficient way possible. They should have conducted their revenge taking elsewhere.

    regards,

    Kaptaan

  44. kaptaan says:

    Mike Jones,

    I don’t know what 3rd world country you’re referring to, I mean you can call Canada, where I’m from, all sorts of things but 3rd world it is not. As for people sitting back and waiting for the police, that is for other people. Sikhs are the kind to stand up and take action to protect others.

    These people may well have shot children or elderly or other people. The crowd acted according to the law. They subdued an attacker. It is legal to use lethal force if necessary in California to stop an attack against you or others if that’s what a reasonable person would do. In this case it would no doubt be justified given that someone was killed by this guy.

    Whether the people shot were good or bad isn’t the point. The point is this guy shot someone and needed to be stopped to prevent injury to others. Also, I would suggest anyone showing up to a Gurdwara or other Sikh religious place or function and starting violence deserves to be taken care of in the most fitting and efficient way possible. They should have conducted their revenge taking elsewhere.

    regards,
    Kaptaan