Haha. Good point! Thanks for making The Langar Hall “fair and balanced.”

Why, when i’m having so much fun here??? i’d rather have a fair and balanced approach in any case instead of just spouting the latest bromides from one particular vantage point.

regards,
Kaptaan

Why don’t you solicit bloggers to form a ‘right wing’ langar hall? I am sure it would be popular.

One thing that distresses me about their testimony and this administration is that they make a mockery of the dream that brought my parents to the US.

doesn’t really wash. How exactly is it being made a mockery of today as opposed to the Clinton administration? or the Carter administration? versus the Reagan administration when they would have arrived in the USA?

There is no mockery going on now versus then, and your post just demonstrates once again the overwhelmingly left wing bias running through this “langar hall”… Personally, I think you’ve been drinking the ‘kool-aid’ as it were…

indeed, considering the wide spread condemnation from the left and right, i think that the recent methods have been unequivocally rejected.

ya, i think you’re right sizzle- this hearing could be seen as an official condemnation and shows at least some willingness to uncover some previously hidden errors (even if they are politically motivated).

to the point of this post… woo visited my school a couple years ago and i don’t really remember much of his talk, but one point i do recall essentially asked – when can a government use coercive/forceful methods? and the naturally follow up – where do we, as a society, draw the line as to level of coercion or force?

we have all heard/read the arguments for and against any form of coercion, so i don’t really want to dwell on that. irrespective of any published memo or what any nation’s official policy may be, to think nation’s don’t have black ops or agents conducting all sorts of crazy sh*t is kind of silly. even with all of today’s scrutiny, if the CIA apprehended someone who was thought to have knowledge an imminent dirty bomb in NYC, i guarantee you he’d be waterboarded, have bamboo shoots put up his fingernails, his skin sandblasted, injected with truth serum or whatever the else they felt they had to do. the same goes for britain, france, russia, etc, etc, etc. i just think this administration made the huge mistake of thinking they could officialize it and flaunt their tactics given the culture of fear after 9/11 – basic arrogance.

thus, reema, i think the operations of the nation, and all the security concerns and methods employed in recent years are no better or worse than what america employed during the 70’s and 80’s, when they had the communists and left wing rebels to worry about. here it may just occur more frequently since terrorists aren’t part of any soverign government (and thus have innate leverage), aren’t concerned with principles such as mutually assured destruction, and generally pose more immediate threats given the nature of their organization and goals. so, does the more frequent but highly targeted use of such tactics make them any worse than when they may have been used in the past? no – torture is torture. it is the actual frequency that is the problem; the arrogance to think that the justifications could be expanded so widely. but this arrogance and open use of such tactics has not changed america – indeed, considering the wide spread condemnation from the left and right, i think that the recent methods have been unequivocally rejected. the good sentiments of the nation have not changed from the days your father first stepped on it’s soil – unprecedented history unfolded, an administration reacted, and in turn, the nation has passed judgement, widely condemning open use of such tactics.

anyways, this is a very interesting and highly relevent article and video by christopher hitchens, a HUGE hawk and defender of the bush administration:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808
basically, tortures is bad and seriously f*cks people up physically and psychologically, but is it sometimes necessary? interestingly, after voluntaringly being waterboarded, he says no.