Anti Muslim Hate Comes to Orange County, California
The above video took place on February 13, 2011 in Orange County, California in protest of the ICNA, an American-Muslim Relief Organization, holding a fundraiser towards money for women’s shelters, homeless shelters, and other such terrorist activities. While it is disturbing that the incident took place at all, it is particularly disturbing that it happened on American soil, in Orange County, California of all places. Ironically, the day before Valentine’s Day. I wonder how these protesters were able to transition from an evening of screaming hateful racial epithets, to exchanging heart shaped cards with romantic poetry written inside, nibbling on the requisite Valentine’s Day chocolates, and then going out for a romantic evening.
And what’s even more disturbing is that this wasn’t just a few protesters getting together. There were several hundred, part of a legitimate political party, “We Surround them OC 912,” a local Tea Party group. And there were several elected officials supporting what they were doing.
Amazingly, none of the Muslims seem to react to the incredibly hateful things the protesters were saying, especially the comments about Prophet Mohammad. Perhaps the reaction would be different if there were more youths present. I’m not sure how this would all go down if they held their protest at a Sikh fundraiser and said similar things about our Gurus along with the general racism and xenophobia.
The protesters mainly chanted, “Go Back Home,” and “terrorist” at men and women in attendance. And then there were the even more hateful, rehearsed lines, “Mohammad was a child molester. Mohammad was a pervert. Mohammad was a fraud. Mohammad was a false prophet.” Followed by some of the protesters directly speaking to some of the attendees, saying, “You beat your women and rape your children.”
Here are what some of the elected officials, whose salaries we’re footing the bill for, had to say at the protest:
Villa Park Councilwoman, Deborah Pauly (R):
“I have a wonderful nineteen year old son who is a United States Marine. As a matter of fact I know quite a few marines who would be very happy to help these terrorists to an early meeting in paradise.”
Which terrorists? Oh right, Muslims in general. And what’s the implication? That only white Christian families with traditional values have their sons and daughters in the military? Is that the distinction?
Congressman Gary Miller (R):“That’s the only reason I’m here today is to give you a flag, to tell you I’m proud of you, I’m proud of what you’re doing, and I’m proud of this country.”
Congressman Ed Royce (R) gave an equally frightening speech telling the protesters how multiculturalism was ruining America and our children.
I came across this video just a few hours ago and it left me feeling a mixture of emotions I can’t properly put an emoticon next to, so I’ll use a British colloquialism that best explains it: gobsmacked. The term is equivalent to “jaw-dropping,” but can also have a negative connotation, conveying a sense of shock, sometimes dismay and helplessness. And can be used as a noun, as in “I am gobsmacked.” So, I suppose it isn’t like jaw-dropping at all. I can’t explain it any further than that.
Every August there are various events commemorating the contributions of the Ghadar Party, who are the unsung heroes of the fight for Indian Independence. It was founded in 1913 by Baba Sohan Singh Bhakna, in Stockton, California, and welcomed Indians of all backgrounds. There were Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims who all shared the identity of being Indian and wanting the British to “Quit” India through violent means if necessary. That brief point in time, there was a sense of community. Just taking a quick look at the political situation at a basic level today will show us that India is far from being the world’s largest democracy it wants the rest of the world to think it is. From Jinnah to Modi to Bal Thackeray; from the Bhopal Gas Tragedy, Operation Bluestar, Delhi Pogroms, and the Gujarat and Bombay “riots,” India is far from being an effective multicultural society.
I was born in 1978, in a small blue-collar town called Crawley (Gatwick Airport. Reprezent!). A year after I was born came the famous Southall Riots, the single event that started a civil rights movement unifiying desis all over the U.K. regardless of their religion, or cultural ties. When we first moved to Crawley, all of the brown people used to hang out together. Some of my best friends when I was about nine were a mix between South Indian Hindus, and Pakistani Punjabi Muslims. We were all well aware of the religious, and geographic identities we all claimed to belong to, but we all bonded over cartoon shows like Popeye, toys like transformers or gobots, and protected each other from the common enemy: the “English.” Then I left England to live in East Africa, West Africa, the Middle East, and eventually the United States. After about fifteen years, I returned to Crawley, and while the physical layout of the English town hadn’t changed much, the social fabric was completely different. The brown population of Crawley had imploded, so much so that there are now Sikh areas, Muslim areas, and Hindu areas. That sense of community had vanished.
Many people have this misconception that British Desis are well integrated into mainstream society based on the number of brown people on the telly: Goodness Gracious Me and Mumbai Calling are just two examples. But there are still many places in England where overt racism is perfectly acceptable, and the British National Party, a legitimate political party, has the very same ideals as the Tea Party. The BNP’s aim is to protect the rights of “Indigenous British People.” And they ridicule the idea that they are racist. But what makes the Tea Party scarier is that their demographic aren’t some hillbillies smoking meth in a trailer down in Tennessee. They are predominantly educated(most have gone to college), and almost exclusively white, although 1% is black.
In the days, weeks, and months after 9/11, I remember Sikh organizations going out of their way to show how American they were by plastering their cars and houses with American flags. And explaining to their “fellow Americans” that they weren’t Muslim, or that Sikhism had nothing to do with Islam, when clearly there are elements of it.
I teach English literature and writing at the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan, where manyof my students are racially, linguistically, and nationally diverse. They are extremely talented, bright, and have been exposed to a variety of cultures in their high schools. For an assignment on poetry, I put up an image of Humble the Poet and every single one of the students assumed he was Muslim. So, clearly this lecturing people on who the Sikhs are hasn’t worked very well. And the Muslims aren’t doing very well either.
I’ve made this point in other blog posts I’ve written, but I’ll reiterate it anyway. Through the fog of multiculturalism, we assume we know about other races and cultures simply based on the fact we know a coworker or classmate from that community. Some of my students at the School of Visual Arts actually have turbaned Sikh friends, but had no idea that they weren’t Muslim!
It is great that we live in a multicultural society, but it does render the positives a bit useless if we’re going to sequester ourselves into little bubbles. If Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus, only react when something affects their community directly, we will always be the minority.
Since no Sikhs were harmed in the making of the above video, should we simply stay silent until these people show up at the Gurdwara? What can we do?
88 Responses to “Anti Muslim Hate Comes to Orange County, California”
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I do agree that there are problems and issues in India and the record has not been so clean But tell me what rights did African Americans have a few decades ago in US? Its been a democracy since centuries. what has happened to the native tribes of US? marginalized. Things take time and Society is healing and improving. U have no idea how Indians and this includes many Muslims also who united on FB to protest against the fanatic secessionist people in Kashmir. Modern education will slowly broaden the public mindset and improve things in India. My father has been in South Africa & worked amongst the africans and his childhood was spent in a muslim majority area of Mumbai. He never taught me to hate or judge a person based on race religion or colour.
Muslim and Christianity are so different.
It will require a Herculean tasks ( if not impossible ) to bridge the gap .
E.g. :-
1) Woman : –
a) For Muslim woman "BRURKA " is there uniform and for the Christians it is "BIKINIS" .
b) Adultery by Muslim woman is to be punished with death and in Christians she is to be forgiven.
2) Men
a) Jihad is the dream of a Muslim boy where winning a 'Nobel prize " is the dream of a Christian boys
b ) Beard is the sign of a Muslim boy and a clean shaven look is the look of a Christians boy.
c) Muslim man can take 4 wives where as Christian can take only one
3) Secularism :- Most Christian countries are secular where as most Muslim countries are Islamic.
Mosques can come up in christian countries where as churches are not allowed in Islamic countries.
4) Law : Sharia is the law of Muslim land whereas modern laws are in Christian countries
"Most Christian countries are secular where as most Muslim countries are Islamic. "
Islamic countries do not have a ban on churches, there are churches all over many Islamic based nations.
"For Muslim woman "BRURKA " is there uniform and for the Christians it is "BIKINIS" .
b) Adultery by Muslim woman is to be punished with death and in Christians she is to be forgiven. "
I dont see your point.
?
Is there an Church in Saudi Arabia ?
The dress highlights respecting the wishes of a woman how she wants the world to see her.
Reponse to adultery reflects the harshness of response to a sexual misconduct.
In India women are burned. What's your point? And yes, there are churches in Saudi Arabia
Sati was a practise which India gave up long ago.
It was done to prevent Indian girls from falling in hand of Invaders.
No buurning of Indian woman takes place now.
Please give ref of church in Saudi Arabia where even BIBLE is not allowe
There are over 800,000 Catholics and I don't know how many Christians, etc there, there are several unofficial churches and other places of worship. And there is a church http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,172…
There's all this furor over honor killings but Indian women are burned all of the time for not bringing enough dowry to a wedding or a father burns his daughter for bringing shame to the family by wanting to marry outside of the caste:
http://www.examiner.com/domestic-issues-in-nation…
Thanks to know that.
Ur confusing religion with culture. The bible says to shave a woman head who dont cover it. Ppl just dont care as much n ur leaving an arab dick to suck a british one.
5) Language: English language is written left to right and Urdu is written right ot left.
6) Leaving religion : In Islam it is punishable with death where as it is not in Christianity .
I guess "SIKHS" can help given there long exposure to Muslims.
But given Islam’s missionary zeal to change the religion of countries/people many religions are wary of them.
"KORAN " and "SHARIAT" and “Prophet greatness” is also not negotiable.
Where do I begin? Firstly, the Quran is written in Arabic, not Urdu. And the Bible was originally written by Moses (allegedly) in his native language of Hebrew, which was (gasp) written right to left.. Is your argument seriously that Christianity does not have missionary zeal and that Christian women wear bikinis rather than burkas? I don't even know how to respond to that. So, I won't.
I was high lighting the differences
1)Arabic is written right to left and western languages are written left to right
2) How may Gurudwaras you have in West and who many in Middle east countries
3) The Burka/ Bikini divide is a fact .Try wearing a BIKINI in Arabia and let us enjoy some fireworks.
4) As for missionary zeal I implied the violent aspect of it. Kashmiri Pundits have been driven out of there homes as recently as 1990 . The lslamic world will only talk of palestinian people suffering and not of kashmiri Pundit suffering.
5 ) You cannot marry a Muslim woman without having to convert to Islam where as a Non Muslim Girl marrying a muslim will have to have all her children brought up as muslims . Is this not double standards ?
My suggestion is that Muslims in 2011 will have to learn to live in give and take mode and not take mode alone.
1) But the Bible was originally written in Hebrew so it isn't written left to right.
2) I think anywhere there is a sikh population there is a gurdwara and there are plenty. Even Iraq had one. http://www.gurdwaras.com/
3) the bikini has nothing to do with religion, it's the culture. And try wearing a bikini in Punjab or even Delhi and see what happens. That is pointless.
4) Slavery took place in the name of Christianity, the Ku Klux Klan all are Christians.
5) The same is true for Christians. Or Amritdhari Sikhs. And there are many liberal Muslims Christians, and Sikhs who have married outside of the religion.
Can you explain this
1) http://www.rttnews.com/Content/GeneralNews.aspx?I….
2) http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=229639.
Can I explain two bomb blasts in Pakistan. Was that the question? No. I can't. Is that justification to what we just saw in the video? And does that make your "facts" suddenly true?
Either all of us live in love or all of us live in hate.
Why this is even here on Langarhall, Seems to me We are worried bout Muslims Rights more then our own Rights, Please stop with all the Muslims news on this site, Kinda getting fed up with this, Lets focus on our own issues, Muslims Hate everyone, if you dont agree with them they will cut your head off, Why we need to defend these folks, if they got issues let them defend themselves.
I realize it is asking a lot, but perhaps you could read at least half the post before adding your comments. Obviously there is no connection between what this video depicts and what might happen in the future when they start protesting outside Sikh fundraisers or at Gurdwaras. But of course a smarter way to deal with that is to just wait until they come for us . And of course there are no connections to be made with the Bhopal Gas Tragedy because that predominantly affected Hindus, or the Godhra Riots in Gujarat because that affected Muslims. Let's just stay in our bubble. Even during the Mughal-Sikh war, Sikhs never resorted to defiling the religious views of all Muslims. There are plenty of Muslim Saints in the Guru Granth Sahib. What are you saying about our religious book and our Gurus who have verses written by people who will "cut your head off?"
Never seen white people doing that in front of the Gurdwaras, This will happen to People who Preach Hate, Those Muslims you are talkin bout they were Suffies, Muslims don't even consider them real Muslims,You must not be well inform about Sikh History , Guru Teg Bhadhur ji , Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, Youngest Kids OF Guru Gobind singh ji were Killed by Muslims, I Dont need to be reading this on Sikh Site, Read the Above comment Miss Selma saying about white women , They were bikini's and its OK to sleep around in Christianity , She knew that before she moved to US,Thats Just insane, if they don't like white people or their ways of living Guess WHAT , They are Free to move to their Homeland, There is Plenty of Muslim Females WEAR bikini's and Commit Adultery , Why She needs to slander others, Dont Waste Our time on this Garbage, Next time Post Sikh Issues, This is after all Langarhall not A mecca.
God Bless all.
Actually I think this deals about human rights. Forget all races, and religions.
As a Muslim should i leave this site? Please explain.
This would be a good start point. But please go further – leave this country.
I really appreciate that you brought this incident up. It hasn't been publicized at all, besides a mere youtube video, and it honestly did hurt to see this. At the end of the day we all fall under one species, humans, and for the sake of humanity we should be there for one another in times of need. I have numerous Sikh friends and would never wish anything of harm for them, and i know they feel the same way, I pray that the ignorance in this world minimizes and people try to go and seek knowledge before making comments that make no sense, just like the demonstrators who probably ruined the day for families trying to enjoy a simple fundraiser. Props to Navdeep Dhillon Singh, we need more of you in this world !
Thanks, Salma! And don't be discouraged by the two insensitive, not to mention factually incorrect, comments by Harjinder and Sarbjit Singh. There are always a handful of people in any community who don't know what they're talking. Those are two of ours =) Thankfully, the comments I've received on facebook have been well thought out from people who've actually read the post. So that gives me hope. There are plenty of Sikhs who feel the same way I do, and I agree with you, this is an issue that needs more attention drawn to it, and the core of what is going on really is a human rights issue. Thanks for stopping by the blog and know that you are always welcome here at the langar hall =)
You Must Be Kidding , What do Islam Knows about Human Rights? Please Shed me light on that, I be glad to hear your mombo Jambo! When did You Became Representative of Sikh Community?
It was my pleasure visiting your blog. Yes, indeed there are always those people who seriously have no clue what they are talking about..
Salma, let me tell you something about ignorance. You said at the end of the day we are all human beings, which may be true. Do you know that some "human beings" are worse than beasts and animals? They kill murder bomb people to get what they want? Even lowly mosquitoes are different from butterflies and at the end of the day they are all insects! So you can make it sound beautiful and wonderful and peace loving, the truth is only ignorant people would claim all human beings are the same.
This site has been going downhill for a while now and if it could get any lower then Navdeep Dhillon's post just proved how just out of touch with the real world some writers on this blog are. His write up is typical of the liberal garbage which seeks to present Muslims as just like other minorities seeking to make a good life for themselves and appreciating the freedoms that the host country affords them. His views in Crawley are a case in point. He lived there were the Muslims were a small group and needing the support of other minority groups but in the last 15 years Muslims have cut ties with other communities and sought to present themselves as just Muslims and not as Asians. It is not the fault of other communities that there are Sikh areas and Hindu areas. Is Navdeep Singh aware that prior to 9/11 in July 2001 Muslims in Bradford attacked and burnt Sikh and Hindu businesses during a riot? Is he aware that non-Muslims in a Muslim area are subject to much worse than the abuse the Muslims got in that clip on a daily basis? It does appear to me that people like Navdeep would love it if a Gurdwara was subject to same abuse as the one in the clip so that he and his useful idiot friends can say 'I told you so'.The reason that Gurdwara is not subject to this is that the protesters no matter what abuse they commit do know that the organisation behind is a front of the Muslim Brotherhood which seeks to destroy the US from within. It doesn't surprise me a lecturer like Navdeep would be unaware of this as their intellectual bankruptcy is there for all to see with the useless numpties they graduate into the world each year!
Blk,
If you think someone who graduates from college is a numptie (Scottish slang for a figure of ridicule) I don't know what more I can say to you.
Any students who graduate after being taught by liberal idiots like you can only be classed as numpties.
What is happening in England will happen where you live in a few years time and when the proverbial hits the fan and Muslims have achieved a critical mass of population what use will left wing idiots like you be?
You've got issues, mate.
I am Glad there are people who have little sense what is going on in this world, Liberal Morons don't have any balls to speak the truth, England will we Londonstan in 50 years, France is already close to Reaching that point, 90% of them are on dole in UK,FRANCE and Rest of the Europe, Tax payers are funding their 10 kids with 5 wives, Next thing u know there will Sharia Law, There goes your freedom, How tragic is that these people came from somewhere else now they want Host country to Live According to their Laws and customs, When white people complain then they Start Calling them Racist, There are few people who post here on regular basis, I even doubt that if they are even Sikhs, I have Massage for them Please preach the Humanity and human rights to Muslims, Cuz they are one who needs to Learn Humanity and Human rights.
I dont know about your statitics but even if they are true what does this have to do with this video? The Muslims in this case didn't do anything to provoke the people protesting. Nobody wants to live in a place with fanatics from any reigion or with people milking the system but everyone deserves basic human rights. That was the whole point of this post which i think was missed. I dont know what your last comment has to do with anything
What happens in this video is White people are sick of these fanatics , Finally they are starting to Speak up, We don't wanna be Another England or France, Another Questions i have why do Sikh sites like Langarhall need post this Garbage here? why? 20 million Sikhs gonna defend Billion Muslims? Specially when we know Sikh History what they did to Our forefathers, There is millions of Sikh Issues here and in India why cant try to find Solutions to our own problems? There is Huge Problem of drugs in Punjab , i bet nobody wants to talk bout that, There is thousands of Family members Sikh Martyr of 1984 they need Help , I bet nobody want to talk bout that, Lets talk about to help out brothers n sisters in need of help, There is plenty of issues we should be talking bout Related to Sikhi.
They are provoking people because their organisation's professed aim is to destroy non-Muslim civilisations.
by holding a fundraiser for the homeless and women's shelters? Of course it must be a front for terrorism
Are You 100% Sure where the Funds Going?
Bik, we are not in England and in fact, i hope we can learn from the lessons of what has happened in the UK in regards to race relations. Two elderly Sikh men were shot in Sacramento county a few days ago. The Council on American-Islamic Relations is joining the Sikh community in support and is offering a monetary award for any information related to this shooting. They are standing with us in our time of need and we will continue to stand with them in their time of need! The segregation of minority communities in the UK is a sad state of affairs brought about by members of ALL communities, not just Muslims. Having grown up there, i hope that the same doesn't happen here in North America.
Your comment does not make sense, and we are deleting it.
- Admin Kaur
Sikhi is not about Sikhs, Punjabis, Indians or Asians alone. It is about humanity. That is what is unique about its philosophy. It has four doors from all four directions and walks of life. No Sikh site including Langarhall should shy away from open and civilized discussion about humanity and human rights. If one is looking for holes to downgrade it to make it argumentative that is entirely a different issue.
Mr. Pashaura Singh, this is very well said and I think the goal of any religion is to treat fellow human beings with compassion. As a human being the video above was appalling and very upsetting. If I see a child being beaten by an adult, I will feel sorrow. I don't have to ask first what religion that child is.
The comments above are very hateful and almost sociopathic where they can justify the actions of the politicians and the blatant racism towards these poor people, maybe even violence towards them just because they are Muslim. Today there is a mistaken identity of Sikhs that they are being called terrorists, but in the 1980s, Turbaned Sikhs were targeted as being terrorists because of the actions of the guys who blew up the Indian Airlines plane from Montreal and the militants in India. That was not a case of mistaken identity. Stop the hypocrisy.
Your post sounds beautiful and wonderful, but it really says nothing, just a lot of hot air. Any religious teachings claim the same as you do about Sikhi. All of them claim to be four in all four directions. They all claim to be open to civilized discussion. So what is your point? What is so special about Sikh? In fact, Sikhs are like Muslims they belong to the same fanatic group. Of course that does not stop them claiming how wonderful their religion is, as you have just done.
This video really made me cry. Thank you for writing this blog post and ignore all the negative people and their comments. Since when did human rights and civil liberty become the jurisdiction of liberals? That's the wholle point of being a Sikh isnt it?????
The real negative people are those terrorists. Negativism to negative people makes them the poisitive people.
The organisation that set up this fundraising dinner is an Islamic supremacist organisation. So no need to cry over the protest, it's a bit like crying because some anti-fascists are protesting at an Nazi party fund raising dinner! This Navdeep Singh like all liberals isn't telling the whole story. Read the background to the Islamic society of north america here http://www.investigativeproject.org/2373/hand-boo…
You must be kidding to use Stephen Emerson as a source for "facts" ? What's next? Bill Oreilly? This is same guy who said the bombing of the Oklahoma City bore "traits of Middle Eastern Terrorsts" (it was white christian timothy mcvei) and has on many occasions been wrong about muslim charities being linked with hamas or al qaeda and would be just likely to write that all sikhs want to blow up america because of things Guru Gobind Singh said or the khalistanis.
All christian organizations and charities want the world to be christian why isn't that supremacist organization? Point of this well written article is not to support fanatics in any religion or support any terror things but to behave like human beings to each other. I dont know how you call yourself sikh when you cant even feel for fellow human being without first asking if they are muslim. if they are christian it seems like you would be upset though. Read about your religion before you shoot your mouth off.
"koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae ||Some call the Lord 'Ram, Ram', and some 'Khuda'.
koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi ||1||Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allah' ".
Focus on our own issues? Two elderly Sikh men were shot in Sacramento county a few days ago. The Council on American-Islamic Relations is joining the Sikh community in support and is offering a monetary award for any information related to this shooting. They are standing with us in our time of need and we will continue to stand with them in their time of need!
First of all, I want to send heart felt condolences to the family of victims, Waheguru give strength to the families of the love ones to deal with their Loss, Second i still wont seek help of CAIR, Solution to this problem is Our kids needs to get into Law enforcement, Now we are at mercy of white people who runs the Law enforcement, In this matter i would seek help of Christian faith or Jewish , we need to get involved with Christian/Catholic/ Jewish faith, if we have association with Islam there is no way we will get justice in any matter, I am not saying All Muslims are Bad, Some do understand Human rights and Values, Its not the Humans its What they Fallow, Their Book Teaches intolerance,Killing,Rights on Women are in question as well.
Sikhs and Muslims are two groups of people who are so fanatic about their religion that they use any means to protect their religions even with violence and killings. Fanaticism can often be shown on their chosen appearances. Colorless white gowns for men and head to toe burqa for women, or at least hijab or veil. The more and thick the beard of those men wear, the more tribalistic and more fanatic they are. Now you Lefties can attack me, but the truth won;t change.
[...] could have been anything but an attack motivated by racism and hatred. Just a few days after the horrific display of anti-Muslim bigotry in Southern California that Navdeep posted on, we have Sikh lives being lost to senseless [...]
Amrit Singh
You are right, I don't feel for a person whose aim in life in the subjugate people who are not of the same religion as he is. I don't feel for a Nazi when he gets his head blown off by those he would like to see sent to the gas chambers.
You are a typical idiot whose cannot see that people other than white people can also have a supremacist agenda. You are typical of the fools who use Timothy McVeigh (you might want to get his name right to prevent you from appearing a bigger fool than you are) when ever Islam is questioned. Here is a link and who knows you might actually learn something, though the who tone of your post shows you are beyond hope. http://criticismasinspiration.com/2010/09/13/the-…
I wonder what you would say to Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji for allowing Bhai Kanhaiya to give water to Muslims in the battle of Anandpur because he thought they are human beings and it was compassionate thing to do. You make yourself look like a idiot by calling everyone else idiot. And you are disgracing your own religion. You are too full of hate to be Sikh.
There are times compassion is squandered by stupidity. I have a story to tell you. A wolf strayed from it's pack and was starving to death. It was cold and hungry and half buried in snow. An old man took compassion with the wolf and he took it to his hut and made fire to warm up the animal and gave raw meat to the wolf. The wolf got barely strong to stand on his four and next day, the old man was no more than a pile of white bones outside his hut, a delicious meal for the wolf. Feeling really strong, the wolf took off and rejoined it's pack. Now you tell me do we give compassion to wolves? Do we pay compassion to Muslim/Sikh terrorists? No! We terminate them.
Bhai Kanhaiya gave succour to the Mughal wounded, not those who were fully armed and ready to attack Sikhs.
You get a basic fact about Timothy McVeigh wrong and then question my calling people of your ilk as Idiots!
I think we are just repeating what's been said on the news. More reading and education needs to be done before making a judgement towards all muslims!
I have been studying Islam and Muslims for the past 3 years. I came to the conclusion – IT IS TIME FOR ALL MUSLIMS TO MODERNIZE, it is good for themselves and good for the world. Tribalism breeds ignorance, barbarism, hatred of others, egocentricity and intolerance. Unfortunately Muhammad was made the LAST prophet, which means his words can NOT be changed. Thus dooming Muslim to eternal backwardness, intolerance and all of the above.
Blk,
I appreciate you sharing your views here, but please be respectful. If you disagree with the views being presented by the Langar Hall bloggers, we would love to hear from you, but be civilized. Every comment you’ve left so far has some form of degrading language (“fool,” “left wing idiot,” “typical left wing fascist,” to name a few) and it seems to solely be based on the fact that you perceive a commenter, or blogger, to be leftist and therefore pro-Islamic and an idiot with nothing intelligent to say. To clarify, I am not Pro-Islam,or Pro anything, other than human rights. You have your views and are entitled to them, but are not entitled to belittle others.
The Mughal soldiers who were given succour by Bhai Kanhaiya were injured in battle. They did not just drink the water and go home. The reason Sikhs complained to Guruji was that with Bhai Kanhaiya’s help, these Mughals regained their health and were able to fight the Sikhs again during the battle of Anandpur. Bhai Kanhaiya’s rationale was that he didn’t see a Mughal, or a Sikh on the battlefield. He simply saw human beings in need. And Guruji agreed.
Nobody is saying we want to live under the laws of any religion, be it Sharia law, or Christian law, or sticking our heads in the sand pretending that terrorism and anti American sentiment isn’t a viable threat from the Middle East. But that wasn’t the point of my blog post (or posts by others on TLH).
The point of my post was that human beings shouldn’t treat each other the way they were treating each other in this video. Being Pro-Sikh means you are Pro-humanity.
Stephen Emerson, the author of the site you referenced (as well as plenty of the books on this subject) immediately jumped to the conclusion that it must be a Muslim who did it. He is a knowledgeable man, but has a clearly anti-Islamic agenda. Just because some of us here have written blogs siding with human rights issues in Islam doesn’t mean we fully endorse every aspect of Islam. If Christians are being persecuted in Pakistan, I agree that as a progressive blog, the Langar Hall bloggers should write about it.
Sikhism is all about human rights, regardless of religion or politics. That is the point of Guruji’s reaction to the Bhai Kanhaiya story. What you’re saying seems to be that every single muslim: baby, child, and adult, is not human and deserves every horrible thing that happens to him/her based on their religion alone. Is this what you’re saying?
Sikhism is all about human rights, regardless of religion or politics. That is the point of Guruji’s reaction to the Bhai Kanhaiya story. What you’re saying seems to be that every single muslim: baby, child, and adult, is not human and deserves every horrible thing that happens to him/her based on their religion alone. Is this what you’re saying?
Get rid of the hatred for one another and learn to treat people as people rather than seeing them as a religion or a color. If a person does something wrong then that person is wrong. IF a group of people decide to blow up a building and then claim they were Sikhs would you now think all Sikhs (you can plug in any religion) are responsible and can not be trusted?
Religion is supposed to give people the patience, the examples, and guidance needed to be GOOD people who are kind to one another and respect one another..Instead people use religion as the reason to hate one another.. What is the point of all this hatred?
The post by Navdeep should be an eye opener for all. This can happen to any group of people and should not be tolerated. If people want to protest terrorists they are in the wrong place by being at this kind of a fundraiser. Lastly, if the people there were terrorists they would not have walked by peacefully while the people chanted obscenities about the prophet.
Ok, I'll tone down the language but when Sikhs suffer because some left wing activists use the Sikh identity to push forward their agenda then I get angry. Look at my previous posts from the last six months. I have always commented on and warned of the risks when the writers on here have done the above. The writers on here might be well meaning but they are trying to run before they can walk. The risks that Sikhs face in the US are a hundred times worst than those faced by the Sikhs in the UK or Canada. This is because they are a tiny part of the general population, spread out over a large land mass. The general population is largely ignorant of the Sikhs and 99.9% of most Americans upon seeing a turbanned Sikh will assume that he is a Muslim. This is a fact that Sikhs will need to take into account until they make the general population aware of their separate identity. Even a decade after 9/11 mistaken identity is still an issue and Sikh activists will need to reflect on why that is. Should Sikhs be using their identity in such a public manner to endorse people and organisations which have an anti-US agenda. ICNA is not an organisation that Sikhs should be defending and associating with CAIR is also a very short sighted step. Both organisations aim to subvert the US from inside and their longer term aim is to turn the USA into an Islamic state. The protesters who seem to have upset Navdeep Singh were not protesting outside a mosque but at a fund raiser for ICNA. That is a big difference and something that has not been adequately highlighted by him. Interestingly Navdeep Singh seems to be concerned by the ignorance of his students of the Sikh identity and wants to link Sikhs to Islamic causes yet appears to be a mona! How's that for putting his turbanned brothers at risk through his agenda whilst he remains safe as he won't get mistaken for a 'turbanned Muslim terrorist'!
The writers on here may be well meaning but have no interest in whether their agenda linking the Sikh identity with Muslim causes is putting Sikhs in danger. No doubt, some idealist pups on here will highlight some events from Sikh history and use that to justify Sikhs standing up for Muslims but nowhere have Sikhs every supported Muslim in their attempt to impose their imperialist agenda.
Your children will do this once they become citizens of a SHARIA state
This state was formerly a Indian state till 60 years back
1) http://www.rttnews.com/Content/GeneralNews.aspx?I….
2) http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=229639.
3) http://www.topix.com/forum/toparts/pakistan/TEC68…
So liberal,leftist Sikhs are "supporting Muslim in their attempt to impose their Imperialist agenda," so that their children become the citizens of SHARIA state. Brilliant Analysis to say the least brother!!
By the way thanks for the above links. Perhaps needs a littlle glimpse of your brilliance here too ! Who is killing Muslims in the Muslim countries if all of them love the imperialist agenda and the SHARIA state? On the 2nd issue and with no disrepect to the Muslim brothers, Sikhs are proud to be identified as Sikhs and not to be confused as Muslims. And there are venues and ways to do that where it is being done however belated. If the ID;s are confused and mixed up with Muslims, is it because of the Sikhs who do not wear turbans? Stop the blame game and try if you can to look inside your little head and think how your utterances so far have helped you and me and other Sikhs for that matter, our common cause, to clarify the situation before opening your mouth again !
So liberal,leftist Sikhs are "supporting Muslim in their attempt to impose their Imperialist agenda," so that their children become the citizens of SHARIA state. Brilliant Analysis to say the least brother!!
By the way thanks for the above links. Perhaps needs a littlle glimpse of your brilliance here too ! Who is killing Muslims in the Muslim countries if all of them love the imperialist agenda and the SHARIA state? On the 2nd issue and with no disrepect to the Muslim brothers, Sikhs are proud to be identified as Sikhs and not to be confused as Muslims. And there are venues and ways to do that where it is being done however belated. If the ID;s are confused and mixed up with Muslims, is it because of the Sikhs who do not wear turbans? Stop the blame game and try if you can to look inside your little head, see the big picture and think how your utterances so far have helped you and me and other Sikhs for that matter, our common cause, to clarify the situation before opening your mouth again !
I pose a simple hypothetical question .
If you had the option to bring up your children in
1) Pakistani Punjab or
2) Indian Punjab
Which one would you choose and if so Why ?
Harinder my dear, majority of Punjabis from the Pakistani side and vice versa had to change places against their will and under great pain in 1947 . My father was one of them. They had been raising their children in the joint Punjab together for generations. They prospered and suffered together for centuries. Where Baba Nanak wrote about the barbarity of the then Babars, Waris Shah also did not mince his words about the atrocities caused on innocent people by Gauris and Ghaznavis from Kabul. Remember Guru Ji chose one of the Muslims as his lifelong companion who stood by him through thick and thin, not to mention Sain Mian Mir Ji, chosen to lay the foundation stone on which our Sikh natiion stands. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji was carried out of the jaws of death by a Muslim family inviting the risk of being anhilated by the pursuing Moughal forces. Like all Christians, Hindus, Sikhs or others, not all Muslims think or act alike and should not be viewed or treated as such. That is the whole point if I understand this blog correctly. Nothing more and nothing less !
Agreed.
I to have my roots in Sarghoda .
However you still did not answer my question ?
Peshaura Singh,
Where do I start. Did you know that the myth of Mian Mir laying the foundation stone of the Durbar Sahib does not have any basis in Sikh literature. It was a English administrator in Punjab who wrote that Mian Mir laid the foundation stone of the Durbar Sahib. All Sikh literature from Kavi Santokh Singh to the early 20th century state that Guru Arjan laid the foundation stone. In the later part of the 20th century European writers as well as Sikh writers adopted the myth of Mian Mir laying the foundation stone because interfaith was the buzz word then. I suggest you read up on the subject before using this myth to back up your views about Muslims.
http://www.sgpc.net/golden-temple/amritsar.asp
Also Bhai Mardana was a Sikh, read the janamsakhis and they state that his body was given either Jal parvah or cremated by Guru Nanak himself. Not really an Islamic burial is it? Why do people persist in propagating such myths? Your comment about Guru Gobind Singh being carried from the 'jaws of death' just shows how little faith you have in Guru Gobind Singh. Was the Guru scared of death? You need to stop your shameful use of such imagery!
I know where I need to start Blk Ji. I do not need a certificate of my faith in my Gurus from you or from anyone else for that matter. I am a Sikh who does not need a go between (Vichola), between me and my Guru. However, I thank you for the Link Mere Veer BlK. and I quote" Sain Mian Mir was very friendly with Guru Sahib but the foundation of Darbar Sahib was laid by Guru Sahib himself ". Leave the foundatiion laying ceremony aside, and I dont need your explaination either, just explain it to youself. Why Guru Ji was very friendly with Sain Ji, a Muslim and vice versa?
As a Sikh you seem to have a chip on the shoulder and perhaps harbor the illusion that you have a better understanding of humanity than Guru Ji. On the 2nd point If a Muslim family helped Guru Ji in our darkest hour of history when he was all alone what is shameful about that? Didn't Guru Ji say something to the effect that I am because of you (meaning all good souls helping the just cause) Did I make it all up? Now you say that Bhai Mardana was not a Muslim? He was Mardana Singh? If you base the Sikh history solely on the Janam Sakhis, I feel no need to challenge your scholarship about our history any further. Guru Fateh !
Bhai mardana was as much muslim as a Sikh following Nirankari or Radhaswami Guru
Peshaura Singh,
Mardana Singh! Now you appear to be like the fools who not wanting to wear the 5 Ks ask 'where does it say in the Guru Granth Sahib to wear the 5 Ks'. Have you actually read any Sikh literature such as the Janamsakhis or Kavi Santokh Singh's work? Evidently not as you would not have regurgitated common myths if you had. I hope you will be more careful the next time you try and correct someone by using your flawed knowledge. The saying that you are referring to is 'Inhi ki kirpa ko saaje hum hain' and that was said about the common Sikhs, my comment was on the expression ' from the jaws of death' as if Guruji was a helpless fugitive running from death. Please read or listen to 'Mittar Pyare Nu' to understand the chardi kala of the Guru at that time.
[Removed by Admin: please refer to our commenting policy. We don't condone personal attacks]
You've got some major anger issues. Show some respect. Attacking a 70 year old Sikh Punjabi poet [Edited by Admin. We removed this reference from the previous comment and will also edit it out of here for you - thanks!] because he doesn't agree with your assumption that the Gurus all hated Muslims. That's pretty pathetic. Maybe you want to take some pot shots at some of our Gurus too. How about Guru Nanak for taking on Bhai Mardana? And Bhai Mardana was born a Muslim, just as Guru Nanak was born a Hindu. Jaws of death meant he was about to die. It doesn't connote anything about fear of death.
I do wish people who read my posts rather than post garbage about what they assume my views are. Where have I written that the Gurus hated Muslims? I just stated that the Mian Mir laying the foundation stone is a myth. So from that you assume that I think the Gurus hated Muslims! Now maybe you would like to apologise to me for misrepresenting my views?
As for attacking a 70 year old Sikh Punjabi poet, excuse me but I never knew that religion, age and vocation were relevant factors for consideration when correcting that person's ignorant comments. FYI my comment on his poetry was my personal opinion or is that not allowed on here anymore?
You obviously have zero respect for anyone. That much is clear. Your comments on his poetry weren't personal opinion. They were an attack on him because he outsmarted you and made you feel like an idiot for getting your anti muslim "facts" in Sikhism wrong. And using fairytales as your proof? Give me a break. In terms of historical accuracy, there is no conclusive evidence that Mian Mir or Guruji laid the foundation stone.
The SGPC has been swaying back and forth depending on what historian's "evidence" is popular. In its first website it said “Guru Arjan Dev got the foundation of Harmander Sahib laid by a Muslim saint Hazrat Mian Mir ji of Lahore on 1st of Magh, 1645 Bikrmi Samvat (December, 1588)." However, the amended website of the SGPC reads, “The foundation of the Darbar Sahib had been laid by Guru Arjan Sahib on January 3, 1588. (Later, it was propagated that the foundation stone of Darbar Sahib was laid by Sain Mian Mir."
Your personal opinion of a person has no bearing on the argument and you've pretty much shot your credibility by using the Janamsakhis. While they are entertaining stories, they are just that, stories. They were written at least 100 years after Guru Nanak Dev ji and in a written form of a language developed 100 years later.
All of your posts have been incredibly anti-Islam and that even our Gurus saw the danger of the Muslims. So it is not a stretch to assume your views are in line with this since you don't see any human qualities in Muslims. Clearly our Guru Granth Sahib and our Gurus had a much better grasp on humanity than you do. But then, that's why they are our Gurus and you're seeking attention by belittling people online. Good luck with that by the way.
Thanks for your response. Stick around and you will actually learn something! Guru Arjan Dev laying the foundation stone is based on Sikh literature whilst the myth of Mian Mir was started by a British administrator without providing any reference. If what you say is correct and the previous SGPC website claimed that Mian Mir laid the foundation stone then kudos is due to the SGPC that they have rectified their mistake. No doubt they would have taken recourse to scholars of Sikh literature and not the the ramblings of people like you which like the idea of a Muslim laying the foundation stone as it support your agenda.
Janamsakhis do contain fantastical stories but to negate all of them leaves you with no facts about Guru Nanak. Everything you have ever read about Guru probably came from the Janamsakhis so you are shooting yourself in the foot trying to be clever.
Again, can you stop posting garbage and respond to what I wrote rather than your misconceptions about what my views are. I wrote that ICNA and CAIR are front organisations which aim to spread Sharia law into the US. Many of CAIR members and co-founders are behind bars in the US for various offences. Unless of course you view these organisations as representing Islam. That's a bit like saying if your disagree with the views of the writers on TLH then you are anti-Sikh. See below
http://www.anti-cair-net.org/
and before you dismiss that site as Islamophobic, do you own research and prove me wrong in seeing you as just another liberal dummy!
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. Even if some of the stories I know are from the janamsakhis, I would NEVER bring them up as a historical reference as you have. They are not historical. And what you claim as 100% fact about Mian Mir is not true. It is a source of debate because there is no conclusive evidence to prove it one way or another.
And the site whose views you've been parrotting is clearly anti-islamic. The words "Anti-CAIR" are in blood, and there is a majestic Eagle trampling on the American flag, not to mention the whole point of the organization is to prove that CAIR is a terrorist organization.
I am impressed you've expanded your vocabulary and moved beyond calling everybody on this site an idiot.
And I haven't posted any misconceptions of your views. You really are this narrow minded. I haven't written anything of your views that isn't true.
Any research you have to support your points other than fairytales and sites with bloodstained words?
Maybe you can use the story of Genesis to prove that there really is a Heaven.
Please read our comment policy before posting! Your comments will be removed if they abuse our policy. [Policy: Comments are welcome. This space is intended as a forum for open discussion. However, we will edit or remove comments we find inappropriate, at our discretion. No profanity, name-calling, discrimination, or hate will be tolerated, whether directed towards another commenter, a blogger, or an individual or group not directly present on TLH.]
The janamsakhis? HAHAHAHA! Now I see why you sound so utterly clueless. Do you also believe in flying horses and that Guru Nanak squeezed out milk and blood out of rotis? If the Janaksakhis are historical references, so are stories from the Bible and the Mahabarat. The term "jaws of death" means he was about to die. It has nothing to do with being afraid. And the term Sikh was never used by Guru Nanak. Bhai Mardana was born a Muslim. Guru Nanak was born a Hindu. These are facts. Do your research by looking beyond comic books. Maybe try looking at the Guru Granth Sahib. I know it's a crazy idea right?
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Janamsakhis
Though from the point of view of a historian the janamsakhis may be inadequate, they cannot be wholly discarded because they were based on legend and tradition which had grown up around the Guru in the years following his demise, and furnish useful material to augment the bare but proved facts of his life. The main janamsakhis which scholars over the years have referred to are as follows:
———————————————————————————————————————————
I am really surprised by the mockery of Janamsaakhi's you are making.There are many sikhs who believe that Guru Nanak have performed some miracle's are you going to make mockery of all of them?
Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on this blog. It's amazing how Sikhs will rubbish their own heritage to prove a point. Not surprising really as one writer has already rubbished the rehat maryada because he wants to be able to eat halal meat and sees the rehat ban as divisive!
There may be Sikhs who also believe in the dowry system and in idol worship. I think these Sikhs are misguided. The only body of work a Sikh should look at is the Guru Granth Sahib. End of discussion. Janamsakhis are not historical documents. They are stories filled with supernatural elements that not a single one of our Gurus believed in.
Guru granth sahib can be interpretted in thousand's of ways.I have even seen followers of living Guru trying to justify with the quotes From Guru granth sahib that living Guru is essential .
And BTW if someone ask you to proove that Gurgaddi was given to Guru granth sahib from the shabads of Guru granth Sahib then what will you do?He/she may even can discard that Gurgaddi was never given to Guru granth sahib because it is not written in Guru granth sahib.
As Sikhiwiki has written that Janamsaakhi's are inadequate from historian point of view but still many contains vaulable parts of Sikh history
I don't know what quotes someone could use to justify a human being as a living Guru from the Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind Singhji was pretty clear on that. He declared the the Guru Granth Sahib as his successor instead of a human being. The Guru Granth Sahib IS our living Guru. The janamsakhis were written 100 years after the death of Guruji and the supernatural elements are not things Sikhs, according to our Gurus and the Guru Granth Sahib that we believe in. If people want to believe in idol worship or that Guru Nanak Devji was a miracle worker and literally squeezed milk and blood from roti, this is the work of literature not Gurbani.
The Guru Granth Sahib cannot be interpreted 1000s of ways. Read it and tell me what can be misinterpreted. As for the Gurgaddi, does it honestly make a difference? if it isn't in the Guru Granth Sahib, how important can it be?
Where Guru gobind singh ji declared Guru granth sahib as living Guru? Please quote the source.Just go to Namdhari site and they will show many proofs that Guru granth sahib was never given gurgaddi.
As sikhiwiki has written Janamsaakhi's do contain some oral tradition and some part of Sikh history which cannot be discarded though we should not believe in every saakhi of it but its is an important part in Sikhism.
As far interpretations are concerned Please hear some Katha of maskeen ji who himself use to believe in supernatural element .He himself one stated that there many teeka's of Guru granth sahib and many much more of Japji sahib.All of them are different.So there is no way one can say that there is only 1 interpretation Guru granth sahib
BTW here is the first line of Japji sahib
???? ???? ? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?
???? ???? ? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?
Soc?ai soc? na hova?? je soc?? lak? v?r.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
Now here it is translated the word sochai as thinking while teeka of Pro Sahib singh says it means purifying or cleaning.so understanding and interpreting Guru granth sahib is very difficult
[...] week and a half ago I posted a blog entitled, Anti-Muslim Hate Comes to Orange County. In it, there was a video showing Muslims attending a fundraiser for homeless shelters being [...]
This is a propaganda video made by CAIR. It doesn't show the reason for the protestors' anger.
///Many in the crowd outside the event said they were concerned about past anti-American statements by the event's two keynote speakers, Imam Siraj Wahhaj and Amir Abdel Malik Ali. Wahhaj is an imam at a mosque in Brooklyn. A U.S. attorney named him and 169 others as co-conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Wahhaj was never charged and has denied involvement.
Malik Ali is a Bay Area Islamic activist who spoke at "Israeli Apartheid Week" at UC Irvine in 2010. There he said he supports Hezbollah, which the CIA labels a terrorist group.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/america-288163…
These speakers are preachers of hate and violence against America. Do not be fooled by this propaganda. Americans do not protest this way against ordinary muslims.
Robert,
I completely agree with you that if any organization or individual supports a terrorist organization, or actively engages in it, they should be brought to justice. But this post is not in defense of CAIR. And it is not a propaganda video. It showed what people from both sides were doing. One side, as far as I know, remained peaceful throughout the entire thing; the other side hurled racial epithets towards men, women, and children attending this event, in addition to making incredibly disparaging remarks against their religion. Were they all "terrorists?"
Even though I don't support the people belonging to either organization, what I find troubling is the method the protestors chose to resort to in order to conduct their protest. I am all for protests, but feel that this was a really poorly executed one. If the message was clearer and the people involved didn't behave like animals (I was half expecting the protesters to start throwing feces), there may even have been support from outside the group. And judging from the comments received on this post, perhaps even a good number from this site.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what your criteria is for assessing who is an "ordinary" muslim and who is not, but this is very reassuring that you have the ability to differentiate the two, so can turn the racism on or off at will. I've just sold a tea kettle on e-bay and have extra cash in my paypal account, so will look for this device on e-bay in the next few days.
We have to admit to ourselves, we simply cannot expect to live in peace with Muslims as fellow citizens, and still maintain the integrity of the culture we love. When we understand this, our immigration and foreign policy must be changed in order to preserve our security, our culture and our way of living.
@wuffendok, your comments are reek of nativism and xenophobia. Oh well, just as that which was once used against the Italians and Irish, amongst others will go to the wayside. America is changing and your are the past.
I bicker with Bik over so many issues but agree totally over Mian Mir laying the foundation of Harimandir.a Muslim scribe Boote Shah concocted this story ( in mid-19th century) which suits the divisive agenda of Khalistanis & other such elements v well. As far as Mardana is concerned, he must have died a Muslim as his descendants are Muslims even today, they were stopped from singing Gurbani at Harimandir by SGPC masands few years back