Their mentality is so depraved that they would rather elect a group whose only justification is to destroy Israel and murder Jews, rather than a party that would seek to uplift the Arabs and create an actual country for them to live in.

[Thread is now closed by author....Admin Kaur.]

HAMAS, the now legitimate, democratically-elected Palestinian government of the Gaza Strip.

i have no idea what’s going on in this thread anymore, but this caught my eye. hamas, despite any legitimacy gained from a vote, is still a terrorist organization. its a sad state of affairs that they’re the majority party….it’s akin to some right wing fascist party winning a plurality in germany. but then again, the palestinian authority also gave us yaser arafat, so, what to expect.

The reason I brought up Israel was because I did look at your ‘unindicted co-conspirator of terrorism’ charge against CAIR. (Kaptaan, despite my supposed ‘closed-mindedness’, I looked at all the information you provided) The charge was that CAIR had helped channel money to HAMAS, the now legitimate, democratically-elected Palestinian government of the Gaza Strip.

I guess we’ll have to disagree. Best wishes and smile!

You wrote,

Your link to the “Investigative Project on Terrorism” shows a man holding a grenade in one hand and a book on Islamic Law in the other. This expert, Stephen Emerson, is a guest commentator on Fox News, the refuge of reality.

What does his being a guest on Fox News have to do with anything? Your comment is just another example of your closed-minded attitude at work. All sorts of people appear on Fox News or any other news station.

You wrote,

So why was CAIR not indicted? As as aside, may I ask, what is your viewpoint on the Israeli/Palestine conflict? Actually I can already guess, but do Palestinians have any grievances? What would you suggest to the Palestinian community? Hopefully AIPAC is recruiting!

Again, you don’t make any sort of cogent argument. Why bring Israel into the conversation? The last refuge for people like yourself is to bring the Jews into the conversation. What have the Jews ever done to the Sikhs? NOTHING. Palestinians themselves in their own mouthpiece the PA daily implicate Arabs as being the ones responsible for the Arab refugees on Jordan’s border. On the day Israel was born it was attacked by Arabs states from all sides in an attempt to destroy Israel and commit genocide of the Jews, and you have the gall to bring the Jews into a conversation that has nothing to do with them. Those people left their villages believing that they would return after the Jews were killed and Israel destroyed.

You wrote,

Clearly John Esposito, the Georgetown professor, is a liar and is out to ‘obfuscate’ concepts such as ‘taqiyya.’ Clearly the Christian websites that you suggested to me that announce “Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All” is a reputable source (Did you know that in the Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak praises Allah – this supposed ‘greatest deceiver of them all?)

You seem to think that just because someone is a christian that they are automatically liars. I could have quoted from Islamic sources that explain the concept of Taqiyya or point to the use of deceipt by Muhammad himself, however, the level of your bias astounds. Tell me and maybe explain to the Sikhs who read this site if Al-Islam.org is a site run by Christian evangelists? How about Ahlul Bayt Digital Islamic Library? Is that a Christian organization? Is the USC-MSA (university of s. california muslim students association) a Christian organization?

You wrote,

Clearly I hope these evangelicals soon produce a website about Sikhs so that, Kaptaan, you can quote them as accurate sources on Gurbani and Sikh concepts such as shahadat.

Your facetious and foolish comments just go to show your mentality. Several times you have tried this tactic of painting me with some brush or the other. Why you insist on always comparing Sikhs and Muslims in a similar light I don’t understand. You write about ‘muslimphobia’ amongst Sikhs, all the while wiping away Sikh experience as a legitimate basis for being wary of Muslims due to the first hand knowledge of Jihad, jizya, dhimmi status, and the like, not to mention the way Sikh Gurus and Khalsa warriors themselves became Shaheed. How about the Sahibzadhey? Were they the benefactors of Muslim kindness and compassion? It was a Qazi/ Maulvi himself that read the ISLAMIC sentence of death for them. I make my comments based on the words and actions of Muslims themselves who have quoted the Koran and Islamic sources as guides for the heinous murders of people such as Nick Berg and Theo Van Gogh, and you try to compare jihadi muslims with Sikhs. I am not an apologist for Islam, but your comments surely paint you with that brush.

You wrote,

you seem to claim some sort of knowledge. However your comments on ‘taqiyya’ and now that I know your sources are Christian evangelical websites definitely make me believe that you are ignorant about Islam, not ignorant in general (I don’t even know you), but definitely ignorant on Islam.

So Christians can’t tell the truth about what muslims themselves say about their own religion? I don’t claim special knowledge about Muslims, but perhaps you should use your internet skills and find what muslims themselves say about the subject. Maybe you should examine what translations of muslim sources such Sahi Bukhari (quoted as an authoritative source by muslims) and others say about Islamic practices. The sites I linked to above are also evangelical? Right Jodha?

You wrote,

If you believe that Muslims are evil, maniacal, ruthless boogeymen that are out to destroy the whole world and Sikhs are some sort of cowboys with white turbans that stand for all that is good and great in the world, then that is your world view.

Those are your words not mine. I have never referred to muslims as evil, etc… Why you insist on comparing Sikhs with Muslims again, I do not understand. Do you have some inherent animosity towards Sikhs, that you would continue to bring them into any conversation about the actions and behaviours of Muslims? What exactly are you trying to prove? Sikhs who commit heinous acts DO NOT quote gurbani when doing so. Muslims who have killed people in the most heinous ways find justification in the KORAN and actions of MUHAMMAD. Are those Muslim murderers all liars? Are they Islamophobes?

You wrote,

Rabb Rakha (did you know that the word ‘Rabb’ is actually from Arabic!)

What exactly does that have to do with anything? So what if there are words from Arabic, farsi and other languages incorporated in the Punjabi language, am I to feel some sort of kinship with the people who speak those languages? What’s your point? Did you know that Apple pie originated in Canada? Did you know the word Jarnail comes from the English word for the military rank General? Did you know that arab Christians use the word Allah to refer to god? Do you know that 1+1=2?

Unfortunately this can go on forever and ever, so this will be my last comment on this particular thread. Feel free to continue as you please though.

I did take a look at your suggested reading. However, none of them come from websites that even attempt objectivity. Your link to the “Investigative Project on Terrorism” shows a man holding a grenade in one hand and a book on Islamic Law in the other. This expert, Stephen Emerson, is a guest commentator on Fox News, the refuge of reality.

So why was CAIR not indicted? As as aside, may I ask, what is your viewpoint on the Israeli/Palestine conflict? Actually I can already guess, but do Palestinians have any grievances? What would you suggest to the Palestinian community? Hopefully AIPAC is recruiting!

Clearly I am a relativist. Clearly you are enlightened. Clearly I am closed-minded, yet clearly you are open-minded. Clearly John Esposito, the Georgetown professor, is a liar and is out to ‘obfuscate’ concepts such as ‘taqiyya.’ Clearly the Christian websites that you suggested to me that announce “Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All” is a reputable source (Did you know that in the Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak praises Allah – this supposed ‘greatest deceiver of them all?)

Clearly I should trust websites by Christian evangelicals to learn about Islam:

We want that Muslims come to faith because they become convinced of the truth of the Gospel through the soundness of the material we present, and we want our Christian brothers and sisters to develop their convictions about their own faith and about Islam for the same reasons: Because it is true.

This all said, we are Evangelical Christians and agree without reservations with the statement of faith as given, for example, by the World Evangelical Alliance and the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization. [link]

Clearly I hope these evangelicals soon produce a website about Sikhs so that, Kaptaan, you can quote them as accurate sources on Gurbani and Sikh concepts such as shahadat.

Kaptaan, let me be the first to admit that I am NOT an expert on Islam. I claim no expertise on a tradition that I have never truly explored. However, you seem to claim some sort of knowledge. However your comments on ‘taqiyya’ and now that I know your sources are Christian evangelical websites definitely make me believe that you are ignorant about Islam, not ignorant in general (I don’t even know you), but definitely ignorant on Islam.

If you believe that Muslims are evil, maniacal, ruthless boogeymen that are out to destroy the whole world and Sikhs are some sort of cowboys with white turbans that stand for all that is good and great in the world, then that is your world view. Meet some more people! Contrary to popular belief, Islam is not a monolithic religion, nor are Muslims a monolithic people. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. Just as there are good Sikhs and bad Sikhs.

That said, I’m done. It has been enlightening and hopefully we’ll get to learn more about one another on other topics in this blog as well. Best wishes.

Rabb Rakha (did you know that the word ‘Rabb’ is actually from Arabic!)

Jodha,

you wrote,

As an aside, what case against CAIR are you referring to? You have mentioned it a number of times. Oddly enough your language parallels what KP Gill use to say against Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra.”

You really have no clue. You find all sorts of muslim apologists to quote yet you can’t do a simple google search to find out that CAIR (a muslim propaganda group) is an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorism case?

You make a such ridiculous comparisons when you talk about Sikhs intimidating people and mention what KP Gill had to say about Jaswant Singh Khalra and then try to apply that to criticism of Muslims for MURDERING people (such as Nick Berg, and Theo Van Gogh) in the most heinous ways while using religious justifications from the koran and islamic law.

Clearly you are some sort of relativist who can’t get it out of his head that Sikhs and Muslims are NOT the same and never will be. The motivation for Sikhs who support an independent homeland versus the motivation of Muslims who kill people in the name of Jihad, Islam and Muhammad are completely different.

Your ad-hominem attack on me by trying to compare my words with KP Gill’s and your previous attempt to compare what I have written as being “right wing” talking points only shows your closed mindedness.

You mention Islamic apologists such as John Esposito as being experts on Islam despite their obfuscations and inveigling regarding Islamic law, theology and practice. People like Esposito do not tell the truth about concepts such as Taqiyya in Islam. If you want to know about Sunnis and Taqiyya read here and here. Perhaps you shouldn’t call other people ignorant about topics you yourself don’t have any knowledge about.