Comments on: One Panth

By: Harinder

Harinder — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:05:29 +0000

It is natural that people will flow with the stream.
Voices of dissent do get drowned in the majority view point.
How ever I would be happy to answer specific points raised by me ;
rather trying to defend my under tones which is some thing I dont understand about myself and my subconscousness.
As for what I am one can have a insight from my comments i guess.
I dont mean to rub any one the wrong way ;
but can say that events of life can be seen from many different vantage points

By: Rani

Rani — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:01:03 +0000

More than one person has commented on your discussion, Harinder, so it seems to be the general consensus that the points you make need more thinking. You have a tendency to appear to offer a positive point about the Sikhs and even go far as quoting Gurbani but you have an undertone to your words which is not positive. I believe that is upsetting to people because it appears you are not what you seem.

By: Harinder

Harinder — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:58:46 +0000

What gives u a impression that your levels of discussions are high and some one elses low.
Do you have some discussion meter ( discmeter). of measuring the levels of discussion
As for truth of the genocides ;
all the ones I have mentioned are from people who are still alive and so can be physically verifiied on ground.
You dont have to get tired of me but can agree that their are many view point to a look at a story how so ever painful it be.
I am not against your pursuing justice rather I want to be with you .
It is a nobel goal and I wish you sucess in your venture.
How ever I still subscrbe to the view of
"All is fair in love and war "

By: Meena

Meena — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:41:15 +0000

Harinder, when I say get an education I don't mean use Wikipedia!!!!!This is not a credible source and is open to editing by anyone on the internet! Secondly just because other communities did not get justice, doesn't mean the Sikhs will give up. In the past we have done what others could not do. Thirdly, no one is crying – seeking and pursuing justice is not crying, it is an act of empowerment.

But please, please, please I beg you get some education and develop critical thinking skills because it is becoming tiring discussing things with you and the level of discussion is very low. I want to be stimulated and inspired by the discussion on TLH not frustrated by people who do not think before writing.

By: Harinder

Harinder — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:26:06 +0000

Keep crying then.
And let me tell you some famous massacres where no justice was done.

Jews in WW -11
Armenians by Turkey people
Red Indians by americans
Kashmir pundits in kahmir
Gujratis muslims in gujrat
Iraq Kurds
Bangaldeshi in 1971
and the list goes on and on.
This is not a comprehensive list but you can read more on genocides at following sites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Not that I dont feel bad or consider it morally or ethically or legally wrong when innocent people are
killed but then these are some of the hard facts of life wether u like it or not

By: Meena

Meena — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:07:27 +0000

Harinder, as mentioned by David Khanna further education would really help you. Rules of war have been defined by international conventions including the Geneva Convention not by plays, dramas, movies or cliches.

By: Harinder

Harinder — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:47:14 +0000

'The cliché
"All is fair in love and war"

It traces its origin back to John Lyly's 'Euphues' (1578). The quote was "The rules of fair play do not apply in love and war. " John Lyly was a Renaissance English poet and playwright.
It implies that people can suspend the law or the rules in special circumstances.'
and if you dont like certian aspects about war then dont indulge in it.

By: David Khanna

David Khanna — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:51:22 +0000

Harinder, my friend – depending on which part of India you live in, you might be able to find some courses in critical thinking which will benefit your immensely. However I will try and help you at little this time around.

1. Civilian casualities occur in all battles. The civilians killed during the attack on the Golden Temple, where unarmed, hands tied behind their backs and shot at point blank range by the army. This is not casually of war, but war crimes and punishable at the international criminal court for crimes against humanity.

"The army which had suffered a heavy toll in the 3 days of battle went berserk and killed every Sikh man, women and child who could be found inside the temple complex. They were hauled out of the rooms, brought to corridors on the circumference of the temple and with their hands tied behind their backs, were shot in cold blood."
Pettigrew, Joyce. "The Sikhs of the Panjab: Unheard Voices of the State and Guerrilla Violence" (1995), p. 8.

“The Operation Bluestar was not only envisioned and rehearsed in advance, meticulously and in total secrecy, it also aimed at obtaining maximum number of Sikh victims, largely devout pilgrims unconnected with the political agitation. The facts should speak for themselves.”
Ram Narayan Kumar, The Sikh Struggle and The Sikh Unrest & The Indian State, Ajanta Books International, Delhi, 1997.

2. Regarding this being a Battle of Amrtisar. That is correct – the brave Singhs were protecting their religion and fought gallantly to the deaths.

A.R. Darshi (A Hindu, Former Joint Secretary to the Punjab Government): "The Sikh fighters had no line of communication and source of supply. They were totally cut off from the state. the country and the world. They were completely besieged in the Golden Temple Complex, particularly inside the Akal Takht. Supply of electricity and water was cut off. They had no reserves to reinforce their positions. They had nothing to eat but roasted grains, nothing to drink but their own sweat oozed from their bodies due to scorch¬ing heat. They had no place to answer the call of nature. They could not sleep for seven days and seven nights. They were exhausted and weared out under these horri¬ble conditions. On the other hand Indian Army had all sorts of provisions, facilities, reserves and what not. Yet the Sikhs fought gallantly and demonstrated their remarkable valour, courage and fighting skill. Yet they held the well equipped Indian Army at bay for five days and gave it a bloody reply, the reply which the Army would remember for ever. Had the militant Sikhs been equally armed, had their numerical strength been even one-tenths of the Indian Army, they would have pushed the Army up to Delhi or even beyond Jamuna…. The entire credit for this exemplary valour goes to Sant Bhindranwale who had enthused and inspired the Sikhs to fight for their rights and defend their faith." Darshi, A.R. The Gallant Defender, 1999, Ch. 8.

I have read your posts and they show either a lack of any understanding of the issues on your or a deliberate attempt to be mischievous. Either way it is not appreciate and you need to re-think your strategy because it is becoming tiring.

Are you the Harinder from Bangalore? Same style, same comments…strange!

By: Harinder

Harinder — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 18:11:05 +0000

If u call it the " Battle of Amritsar" then tell me a battle in world in which civilians/worshippers were not killed.
Why do we feel bad about the dead till today.
It is like the Germans feelng bad about loosing WW 11 to allies or napolean to Anglo-Allied army.
Batlles are after all;
all about life and death are they not ?

By: Meena

Meena — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:32:23 +0000

Roger, that Panth includes all Sikhs. We are an inclusive community and religion. Sikh officers during Operation Blue Star (the correct name is Battle of Amritsar 1984) are guilty of killing innocent, civilians / pilgrims. This is contrary to international law, army law as well as religion. It was their responsibility as officers to stop unnecessary killing and butchering by jawans. Officers should be courtmartialed and stripped of their offices and honours and in a democracy this would have happened by now. However since India is lower on the scale of civilization and mental development that is a pipe dream. I doubt whether the Panth would or does accept them as their own. They have discredited the Indian Army, the Indian nation as well as the Sikh community.